Maintenance & Repair Costs

driftracer · January 2005

already got the cool dual spring compressors...looking for a wall mount next.

Just got a nice compressor and tools for my birthday...

qbrozen · January 2005

I don't doubt what you are saying at all, isell, but I have to think the one I bought is just fine since each piece of it is way stronger than the strut towers in my car. We're not talking about complex pieces of machinery here. 2 bolts, 2 nuts, 4 L brackets, and 4 u-bolts. The only possible weak point is the L brackets, and those are about 5 times thicker steel than the shock towers in my car.

isellhondas · January 2005

A spring that gets loose can crack your skull like an eggshell. Unless it's a QUALITY spring compressor and the person using it is aware and careful, it's not really a DIY job.

I've seen what can happen.

Anybody remember the old "split rims" trucks used to use? Same advise applies.

qbrozen · January 2005

You're right, I certainly don't suggest an inexperienced, mechanically inept, or common-sense-deprived individual do it. And its good that you put the word of warning out there for folks who are thinking of trying this or any other potentially dangerous job for the first time... or even the 5th time.

But, I never did understand the term "DIY" since, even when I was working in a professional garage, I still did the job "myself." Professionals get hurt just like the shadetree mechanics. Sometimes even moreso because, after doing it so often, you can tend to get careless. I won't even get into it, but it can certainly be a horrible and tragic scene.

isellhondas · January 2005

I saw a guy get his hand crushed when the center screw of a spring compressor suddenly broke. this guy was a seasoned veteran who happened to have his hand in the wrong place.

ajseda · January 2005

I have a 60,000 mile service coming up for my Infiniti QX4. I called the Infiniti dealer to see how much it would cost and they told me about $750!!! According to edmunds.com, the cost of the 60k service should be about $300. Is it worth the price to take it to the dealer or have the maintenance done at a local shop?

div2 · January 2005

1. The dealer might be adding "suggested" services that the owners manual doesn't call for.

2. A first-rate indie shop should be just as good, the only problem will be finding one.

armtdm · January 2005

Read the manual. That will give you the real deal on what needs to be done. the dealer usually has a boat payment due and the 60,000, 30,000 mile check ups are great ways to make that payment for him.

yaz · January 2005

Mr. Shiftright,

please update me on Audi's improvement in their maint/repair reputation (if any). I am looking at a '05 A8 but I cant have a car in the shop routinely. Any opinions??

Thanks!

Mr_Shiftright · January 2005

Don't know anything about an '05 car. I don't think there's enough reliability data. I do believe Audi is improving though. Nice car an A8. Do you know about the aluminum frame business and that only certain shops can fix collision damage?

driver1x · January 2005

Anybody know if Edmunds' TCO data is accurate? I'm shopping for a new car and see some cars show $4k-$6.5k in maintenance & repair for ownership years 4 and 5 (BMW M3, for example). Is this really what I can expect to pay from the 4th year on? Can anybody speak from experience? Thanks

Mr_Shiftright · January 2005

I think TCO is pretty good and an M3 is an expensive car to maintain, if you really go whole hog and have the dealer do most of the work.

Also M3 depreciation after 4-5 years is pretty bad. Historically all the BMW "M" cars do not do well in resale after they age and a new body style has appeared.

I'm sure you can cut these costs---they are only estimates and don't reflect the energy level of people who shop around, use indie shops, do some work themselves,l or even have "better luck" than other people.

I drive a car with a deadly reputation for maintenance costs (Porsche 928) and while it isn't cheap for me to maintain (about $150/month) I am well below the predicted rates because I catalog shop, do some things myself, have a good relationship with an independent shop, and try to nip problems in the bud.

div2 · January 2005

I own two BMWs. The maintenance costs for my 95000 mile 1995 318ti average a bit less than $30/month. My 1997 528iA has over 112000 miles and averages $80/month for maintenance. I service both cars by the book using only synthetic fluids. I do perform the oil services and minor repairs myself, using only BMW OEM parts and Mobil 1 oil. I use an indie BMW tech for most other work. I will say that my local dealer's service prices are also quite reasonable. For example, they only charged $110 to change the ATF and final drive oil on the 5er, and a cooling system and brake fluid flush ran just $135. So much for the urban legends regarding stratospheric BMW maintenance costs.

stever · January 2005

That's pretty good on your '95; my '99 Quest is running $35.85 a month, and I'm looking at a CV boot, timing belt and plugs in the near future. About a third of my maintenance to date has been for tires.

Steve, Host

div2 · January 2005

The '95 will need a new set of tires next summer as well as a new serpentine belt tensioner(@$90). I might start using the car for track days again and if I do I'll fit four new rotors and some upgraded pads. Still, if I do the job myself I can probably do the job for under $250.

jkil22 · January 2005

Hello

I have 1996 dodge avenger and found my self stuck on the road when the ball joint went bad (it did what the recall said it could do and disconnected). I went online and found there was a recall, thank goodness.

Now the dealership is telling me that the laterial control arm is covered by the recall but that the Lower Control Arm is shot and needs replaced and is not covered and will cost me $600.00.

When the ball joint went out did it prementualy cause the damage to the Lower Control Arm? Do I have any legal options to get the lower control arm replaced for free?

Recall

http://www.recall-warnings.com/auto-content-13449.html

Thank you for any help! -J

Mr_Shiftright · January 2005

Well I was estimating maintenance AND repairs and I was talking specifically about an M, which is not like a regular BMW.

So depends on the BMW. If it's an M or a 7 series, you are going to nosebleed now and then, there's no avoiding it once you're out of warranty I don't believe.

div2 · January 2005

Just to clarify, my figures for the 3er and 5er did include both maintenance, repairs, and tires. I'd agree with you on running costs of the first generation M3, M5, and M6; the S14 and S38 engines were detuned race engines that required meticulous service. In addition, at about 90K-100K miles you really need to change the timing chain, guides, and tensioner; you do not want to find out what happens if the chain jumps a tooth and/or breaks. That said, the only other item that seems to fail with any regularity is the $75(M5/M6)-$125(M3) water pump, which tends to expire every 60K miles. OTOH, the 1995-1999 US market M3s were fitted with a larger displacement version of the standard six cylinder. There's no reason they should cost any more to service than a 325i or 328i of the same vintage-unless you make the infamous "Money Shift". The E46 M3 falls somewhere in between- the engine has hydraulic lifters so service consists of changing filters and fluids. I haven't heard of problems with the SMG box but I'd think any problems would be pricey to rectify. I think the E39 and E60 M5s will be real nightmares to service when they age. All the electronic driving aids and engine management systems won't last forever. The real bargain buy is a 1995 540i M Sport; it's essentially a full-blown Euro M5 fitted with the US spec 4.0 V8. BMW only built 200 for the US and you have to make sure that the Nikasil engine was replaced with an Alusil block, but you end up with a car that's just about as quick as a "real" 3.8 M5 only with much lower insurance and running costs.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2005

I think the reality is that many Ms are beat to hell and this is why they cost more to maintain and repair; as for the 7 series, their very complexity demands greater expense.

the BMW is hit or miss. Some owners like yourself are very fortunate; so was I for most of my BMWs, but other owners have a lot of trouble, mostly it seems electrical glitches, lower ball joints, radiators busting. Not major component failure, but lots of nickel and diming.

newbie32303 · February 2005

I am in "critical" need of assistance. I am interested in buying a 1992 Ford Crown Victoria but I was told by the dealer that there was NO OVERDRIVE on the car. I am trying to determine whether this is a major repair and if so how much will it. Thank you for all responses !

driftracer · February 2005

if there is no overdrive, the remainder of the planetary gears aren't far behind - you'll need to replace the transmsision asap, probably around $2500 for a reman, installed.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2005

That's right, you should count on a totally rebuilt transmission. Maybe you'll get lucky and it will be some electrical component, but you know, ---- why do I think someone already knows this isn't the case?

joe_k · February 2005

Wondering how common head gasket problems are on the 2.2l Chevy engine? Have a 1997 Cavalier with that engine, no problems yet, but I've been hearing a great deal about the head gaskets leaking.

alcan · February 2005

GM extended the warranty on them. That should tell you something about how common it was.

katmandu2 · March 2005

First find out what transmission your 92 Vic has.

Begining in Mid-92, Ford switched transmissions in the Crown Vics.

Early 92s has AODs and from 92.5 has the AOD-E.

The AODE is extremely hard to find nowadays in wrecking yards and is VERY expensive to rebuild!

You may wanna check out the 4.6 Tech area at the

www.crownvic.net website.

shine · March 2005

I am inches away from buying a GMC Canyon. Except for one small thing the daytime running lights. A few years ago I had a chevy which when you started the car and pushed the dome light a number of times the daytime running lights would disengage until you shut the car down. When you restart the lights would be back on until you pushed the dome light. Does anyone know if this is still the practice. This was about 4 years ago. I wrote GMC and got a stock reply that the lights could not be turned off however the Sierra had an option to turn the lights off. I know this sounds weird but I run a drive in movie theatre and driving thru the lot at night would disturb my customers. I know I had a 2001 F-250 with them and I caught holy heck everytime I drove thru the lot that I finally had to remove the fuse to turn them off. Any help would be greatly appreciated

mitzij · March 2005

buy a reeaally big pair of shades.

Actually, aren't you trying to turn off the auto-headlights, not the drls? (same system, different bulb)

0patience · March 2005

On some of the GM vehicles, you can turn the park lights on and it defeats the DRLs. Not sure if the Canyon has that feature or not.

There are still drive in theatres in this country?? Please, come to our town and open one.

jsylvester · March 2005

I think somewhere around 1995 they switched to the AODEW, which was a slightly re-engineered version of the tranny with wider gear ratios. My understanding is the tranny will fit in 92.5 and later Vics, but the electronics interfaces may need work. I think the tranny may have also been used in some trucks of that era, which could be another source.
That being said, I'd avoid the 92, unless when he means overdrive is going out, he means the tranny is shuddering from worn-out fluid. There are plenty of used Crown Vics/Grand Marquis out there to chose from with a lot of life left in them.

truth · March 2005

Don't forget, owning an automobile is a gamble. You could get lucky, change fluids when the manufacturer says to and not have any problems. The flip side to that coin is that you could find yourself at 60-70,000 miles having to figure out how to pay for a 3,500. transmission replacement. Preventative maintenance is like an driving class, it doesn't guarantee that you will never have an accident however you chances are much lower if you attend. All automobile manufacturers are constantly competing on overall maintenance costs and that is why you are seeing the decline in what is recommended and the stretch in the basic intervals. Once you are out of warranty, your vehicle has a major component failure, you will either repair it or trade it in for a new vehicle. That is a win/win deal for them but not for you. It is always smarter to take care of what you OWN the right way if you plan to keep it. Transmission fluid, engine coolant, and oil are the heartbeat fluids of a vehicle, these fluids should be changed based on their visual condition not always based on mileage. Long story short have your fluids checked regularly, change them when needed, it a repair facility recommends core Maint. items like tire rotations, alignments, fuel filter, or an air filter, be smart get it taken care of before you are trying to figure out how to come up with one large sum to get your car back on the road.

clueless3 · April 2005

2002 A6 has developed pulsating brakes, especially at low speeds (arriving at stop). Dealer check finds no problem with brakes; sm thinks problem is caused by uneven tire wear. I can't envision why that would be the cause. Any comments. Tires have 37,000 and have been rotated.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2005

sounds like warped brake rotors if you mean stopping gradually--- unless you mean pulsating when you stomp HARD on the brakes--that's the ABS working.

mr_n8 · April 2005

My Crown Vic is idling very poorly. It's like the RPMs are jumping up and down, and it "bounces" the car, it's so bad. The battery voltage gauge jumps up and down as this is happening, I assume from the engine slowing the serpantine belt.

Anyway, I've replaced the TPS and changed the air filter. Any other ideas?

Mr_Shiftright · April 2005

I'm thinkin' EGR valve if you have one, or a bad vacuum leak somewhere.

alcan · April 2005

Check the grommet on the PCV valve. At the back of the engine and a pain to get at.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2005

You mean check that grommet for a vacuum leak, right?

alcan · April 2005

Yep. They like to turn to mush.

walt15143 · April 2005

My LHS is getting up in years and,especially, miles but I love the car! Does anyone out there have a ballpark figure for a rebuilt engine replacement?

Mr_Shiftright · April 2005

You can get price quotes from companies like this, but I am NOT recommending or criticizing this one---just a point of reference for you.

http://www.atk-engines.com/amereng.html

driftracer · April 2005

and warrantied engines.

alcan · April 2005

A lot of shops install Jasper reman engines and are happy with the results, and they come with a 3 year/75,000 mile warranty. Are you sure the car's worth the cost of the engine and all the peripherals (hoses, belts, etc, etc), plus labour to install?

http://www.jasperengines.com/jasper-process.htm

driftracer · April 2005

quite a few Jasper replacement jobs, and haven't had a bad experience. Alcan brings a very strong point, though - make sure it's worth doing the job -

http://webapp.jasperengines.com/webcat/catalog.asp

Jasper quotes $3,634 for the engine, then you have to consider labor (16-18 hours at ?), plus hoses, belts, other junk - (18 hours $75 is $1350).....you're looking at $5200-5500...

isellhondas · April 2005

Then the week after it's installed some idiot runs a red light and it's a total?

The insurance company won't care about the rebuilt engine.

3,634 for a reman engine...wow, have things changed!

driftracer · April 2005

a 350 Chevy from the same place starts at around $1200, and you can get a fairly well tricked out Ford 5.0 for your hot rod Mustang for under $2k.

outtactrl · May 2005

Howdie all,

Is it me or is it strange that when you purchase a vehicle from a dealer they have their recommended service interval so different from the manufacturer's service schedule on the manual. I would figure that the manufacturer's engineers and testers have pushed these engines enough to determine the appropriate service interval. So in essence, I'd rather follow the manufacturer's recommendations than the dealer's recommendations. And I don't buy the, "Well your are driving in...city which tears up and abuses the car more. Thats why we recommend these intervals."

Mr_Shiftright · May 2005

I think there MAY be some truth to that statement. If you are the type of driver who starts up cold, goes 3-5 miles, shuts off the car all day, then 3-5 miles home, then a few more short trips that evening, or longer trips with lots of stop and go, etc.---if that is your primary mode of use, it would be a good idea to shorten your oil and filter intervals. But you probably don't need all the other nonsense the dealer is trying to sell you. An air filter doesn't care about the interval of your trips. I suppose if you live in a city with lots of potholes, you will need more alignments and tire and front end checkups.

isellhondas · May 2005

It has to be remembered that the manufacture's reccomendations are the MINIMUM requirements. They like to keep their "Cost of Ownership" numbers down.

Some people, including myself like to take better care of their cars than that.

Still, it's hard to say how much longer a car will really last given extra oil changes etc. I guess in my case, I remember the "old days" of cleaning out sludged up engines. I still won't use a certain brand of Pennsylvia oil because of this.

zillz · May 2005

First of all, let me apologize if I'm in the wrong thread area, but this appeared to be the closest to obtain information. I have been a VW guy from the time I was a little kid in the 60's. To put it gently, VW is weathering a tough storm right now in the US, and there are those who question their chances of survival. I am such a huge fan of VW, that one of my "alternate plans," should VW someday pull out of this market, God forbid, would be to switch to Audi. I must confess that the new A3 Sportback makes my 1996 Golf look like a Plymouth Horizon. The main questions I have are these: Does Audi have the same perceived reliability problems as Volkswagen, or are they better? My Golf is expensive to maintain, mainly because my mechanical skills are roughly on par with that of a mentally-challenged gerbil, around $1000 a year, not including oil changes, but I do everything you're supposed to do, and religiously. I also change oil twice as often as recommended. I keep cars until they rot. Is it safe to assume that an Audi, such as a good used A4, would cost even more for R&M? The other question for Audi enthusiasts: Since Audi is under VW's wing, what do you think the chances are that Audi would stay in the US if VW makes an exit? Is AUDI USA an independent nation or do they answer to VWAG?

isellhondas · May 2005

But, from my vantage point, out of all the used cars I see, I can't think of a more troublesome car than an Audi.

To me, they are glorified Volkswagens that are even more troublesome.

That being said, I do agree they are nice cars to drive.

stever · May 2005

My sister has an '00 New Beetle with a few problems but it was her dealer that was the rub. A good dealer can make a lemon owner happy. After a few years of hassle, including contacting VW corporate once or twice, the dealer got some new people on board and the attitude changed 180 degrees and the service is much improved. They are even fixing stuff that broke years ago and her ride is way out of warranty.

So find a good dealer or mechanic. And check the Audi A4 Owners: Problems & Solutions board for real world experiences.

Steve, Host

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