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I can tell you that I was perusing the reliability ratings for all of these vehicles in the new Consumer Report Buying Guide that arrived just yesterday. The Yukon XL/Denali/Suburban and the Yukon/Tahoe/Denali product lines rated within one-half rating on one item (I forget which one) of the best Honda has to offer (Accord). The aging results did not fall off as badly as you might expect either.
In fact, as I skimmed through the ratings of all the vehicles listed in the CRBG, I was surprised that there were few, if any, obvious "losers" in the reliability race. Some were better, of course, but all were surprisingly good. All the vehicles we are talking about were well above average.
I think that the dealer where you go for service will have more to do with the relative pleasentness/horridness of your buying experience.
If you're in the North Dallas area, I think I'd recommend Ewing Buick Pontiac GMC in Plano. They are still family owned and seem like they may actually care about their clients (they have to, I think, because the average age of their customers falls safely within the AARP range and the expectation of service is consequently high).
You might still get a lemon, but a dealership with a long view that extends back into the Service Department will go a long way to soften that blow as well.
Good luck and happy motoring.
1) Arbitration: you know this will be a pain but probably the best way to start.
2) Washington State Lemon Law relief. However if they refuse to fix the problem the lemon law say they have 4 attempts to fix a problem or in the shop for i think 30 days or more. So if they refuse to fix how can i take it back to allow them to fix it 4 times.
3) Just deal with a crappy car until I can sell it. and never buy a GMC again and advise everyone everywhere not to buy a GM or go to the dealer I went to.
None of those look promising. I gues I have to wait and see what happens.
I drove to Idaho to get a good deal on the car too. So not much help will come from my dealer. They should not have let this car off the lot. But in the auto industry someone has to take the hit adn its always the consumer.
thanks
Now that the disclaimer is out of the way, there appears to be a larger problem with Lemon Law coverage if you bought the truck from a dealer that is located out of your state of residence. As a general rule, Lemon Law coverage applies in the state in which you purchased the vehicle.
If you purchased the truck from a dealer that is located in your state of residence, then the fact that there were four refusals to acknowledge a problem may require an independent assessment of the problem, such as through a binding arbitration. You could take the truck to four separate dealers and ask each one to repair the clunking. You will have the initial paperwork that proves you attempted to get the truck repaired and the dealer refused to repair the truck. Depending on the lemon law of your state, that should provide the ability to trigger a lemon law proceeding. The fact that a TSB exists to explain away the clunking may not cut it with the Judge/Arbitrator - clunking is not normal behavior.
Except in "clunkers" which is not what GMC purports to sell! ;-)
I did some research and I am not covered under Washington State lemon law which states that the vehicle must be purchased and registered in washington. However I am covered under Idaho state lemon law which states the vehicle is purchased OR registered in Idaho. It justs mean if arbitration would fail and I had to go to court for lemon law, then I would have to drive to Idaho. Which I would gladly do If need be.
I got a call from the service shop last night. They said they are doing the 8oz weight thing for the vibration which is caused by the muffler. Hopefully that fixes the vibration and doesn't look bad. I am not sure where they hang the weight but it should not change the appearance of the vehicle. The transmission though I could tell he was avoiding and hesitant on describing. Basically said they are still seeing what they can do. It's not looking good. Although I am enjoying they aromatic smells coming from the seats in the loaner toyota. Nothing smells better than a loaner car thats a few years old.
http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpowertrain/transmissions/hydra/app- s/4l60.htm
Click the about link:
http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpowertrain/transmissions/hydra/abo- ut/index.htm
And you will see this quote:
"Hydra-Matic transmissions have a long history of providing smooth shifting, reliable, and fun to drive automatic transmissions.
If you're driving a GM vehicle, chances are you're driving with with a Hydra-Matic transmission! Hydra-Matic transmissions are expertly integrated into each vehicle application for low maintenance and care-free driving. Hydra-Matic provides leading Shift Smoothness for all types of vehicles and driving needs. "
Once again highlighting smoothness. Isn't this false advertising. If GM wants to propose a smooth riding marketing pitch to attract consumers than dictate that clunks are normal, I propose this should fall under a false advertising lawsuit. Anyone else with these 3 vehicle variants should speak up there is power in numbers. Make GM actually live up to their claims or eat their words.
I think it would be hilarious if a TSB comes out that says its normal for heated seats not to work.
FYI: Oh and here's a really good site someone put up for lemon law info and the process to follow.
http://agmlemon.freeservers.com/
At this point I have now driven a toyota coralla longer than my denali.
I can laugh about it but it sucks
now the real reason never to buy from dave smith motors. I got my denali back from the shop here in seattle and they fixed the seat heaters. However they said that Dave Smith Motors already tried to fix it but never did. Instead they broke a bunch of panels left parts panels and screws out of the vehicle and left everything unplugged. Bottom line they broke the vehicle and threw it back together so noone would notice then sold out the door. I have heard of people getting screwed on price by the dealer or getting a lemon because of manufacturing defects but never a new expensive vehicle being purposely proken by the dealer service shop then concealed and sold. Holy crap it doesnt get more fraudulent than this. The service shop in seattle called dave smith motors and they admitted to the problem and said they would pay the 50 bucks for extra missing parts that were not covered under GM warranty but said they would not pay the labor costs to the service shop. The seattle service shop showed me the clocked hours of the tech which just trying to figure out how to fix the wiring mess dave smith motors left and everything else to fix the seats was 8 hours. At anywhere from 50 to 90 an hour you can see that adds up to alot of money. In truth the seattle service shop could have tried to charge me because it was not warranty work but it was purposefull destruction of the vehicle that happened outside of manufacturing. But luckily they didnt and were really nice. So I will give a good grade Bob Bridge Pontiac GMC in Renton, WA.
To sum up if you go to dave smith motors and get screwed after reading this then it is your own fault.
Also they had to order a bunch of the exterior panels around the base of the seat because dave smith motors service shop scratched and cracked almost all of them. I didnt notice it until I got the vehicle back from the shop but it is bad. I am in shock that a dealer could have ever let this happen.
Exhaust/Muffler Heat Shield Rattle, Popping Noise Under Vehicle (Install Heat Shield Retaining Straps On Muffler) #02-06-05-005B - (04/16/2003)
Exhaust/Muffler Heat Shield Rattle, Popping Noise Under Vehicle (Install Heat Shield Retaining Straps On Muffler)
2002-2003 Cadillac Escalade, Escalade EXT
2000-2003 Chevrolet Silverado, Suburban
2002-2003 Chevrolet Avalanche
2000-2003 GMC Denali, Denali XL, Sierra, Yukon XL
2003 HUMMER H2
with 5.3L or 6.0L Gas Engine (VINs T, N, U -- RPOs LM7, LQ9, LQ4)
Except 1500 Series Models
This bulletin is being revised to add RPO LQ4 to the Models information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin 02-06-05-005A (Section 06 -- Engine/Propulsion System).
Condition
Some customers may comment on a rattle/popping noise from under the vehicle.
Cause
The separation of the muffler heat shield from the muffler may cause a rattle under the vehicle.
Correction
Install two heat shield retaining straps, P/N 15164621, to the muffler and muffler heat shield. Follow the service procedure below to correct this concern.
Raise and support the vehicle.
Install a retaining strap, P/N 15164621, around the front of the muffler and muffler heat shield as shown above.
Pull the retaining strap tight with one hand and tighten the Allen head screw with the other hand.
Tighten the Allen head screw on the retaining strap to 13.5 N·m (119 lb in).
Repeat steps 2 and 3 on the rear of the muffler.
Lower the vehicle.
Parts Information
Part Number * Description * Qty
15164621 * Strap Asm-Exhaust Muffler Heat Shield * 2
Parts are currently available from GMSPO.
Maybe the Toyota Land Cruiser with an impeccable reputation? The TLC is probably the best but the opening bid is 60K and replacing the starter (see a post on the Land Cruiser board) can cost 1K for just a rebuilt unit. (I think Pep Boys would have a GM starter for $39; alternators are less.)
Please let us know.
Incidentally, I agree with you that paying Lexus-like money for a TLC and then putting up with the Japanese version of Chevrolet service is not a pleasant prospect.
It is nothing to be concerned about, is difficult (if not impossible) to avoid, and is probably simply more noticeable on this vehicle because it sits up so high that the sounds escape from underneath with far more clarity than from lower-slung vehicles.
Although I am supposed to be covered by the GM Major Gaurd, with a $100 detuctable I am expected to spend $1000 before they find a problem. What is the point of having warranty till 100k? They say that grinding noise could be wear and tear and will not be covered if that is the case. If any body know about this please respond.
Thanks
Remember, buyer beware. As for me this is the last time I would buy any GM product. I think it is not worth the trouble & aggravation.
Regarding your attempts to identify the grinding noise, depending on your state's warranty laws, you may have an extension of coverage as long as the problem was first identified while the vehicel was in warranty coverage. Keep copies of the service department work orders that show the truck was brought in for the condition prior to the warranty period expiration.
I own a 99 Silverado Ext Cab 4X4 with 99K miles which has been an awesome truck. I'm thinking of trading to an 03 Denali Ext Cab 4X4, used with 20K. I'm concerned with the Quadrasteer option and the fact that the Denali is Full Time AWD. I know with the 6.0 Litre engine, requiring Premium Gas, it's an added operation expense but my main concern is learning of problems with what would obviously be an expensive Quadrasteer repair, once the truck is off Warranty. This 03 Denali is priced well under $30K so I'm pretty excited about the deal. I usually puy 1 year old trucks to let someone else take the initial depreciation hit, which in this case sounds like at least $10K. Anyone have any history of the Quadrasteer reliability???
Try a different dealer. (they all have to honor the warranty)
If you do go the Lemon Law route, find a stretch of highway near where the hearing will be held that causes the instability. Take the referee/examiner/whatever they call themselves along for a ride so they can experience the instability first-hand. First-hand experience usually gets a visceral response from the examiner. (Especially if there is another Denali that can be driven as a reference vehicle....)