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Honda Element Prices Paid and Buying Experience
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Steve, Host
"Dealer Floorplan Assistance" Fees /Wholesale Financial Reserves./Dealer Interest Fee
Some dealers charge this fee, which is icing on the cake. Have them remove this insult. Dealer Floorplan Interest is the interest that dealers pay for loans to buy the cars on their lot. Usually the factory pays this as part of the holdback, itemized as a separate invoice item. Floorplan interest can cost $150 per month for each car. On an Eclipse invoice I have, the factory gave the dealer $185 in floor plan assistance, and the dealer itemized it to the buyer as a fee, double collecting for $370! The factory gives the dealer 1-2 months of interest. The longer the car sits unsold on the lot, the more $150 interest checks the dealer pays. They want you to "assist" them in "paying it", which is the factory's expense, not yours. Dealers know we are on to them, so some have changed the name to a confusing term called "Wholesale Financial Reserves." or "Dealer Interest Fee".
Honda includes this on their invoice, not listing it separately like other auto makers. Is User isellhonda a dealer? Hmmm....
Steve, Host
As for mr. isellhondas saying that it is the current "market" that determines the prices on car, boy that sure sounds like a dealer talking. Why should I pay "market" when I know what the dealer is paying. No matter which car or model you look at, dealers will say "This is a hard config to come by", or "Boy did you pick a hot car". When buying a car, I don't care what the market pays; I only care what's the best deal I can get, which better be less than market! People who take the time to read these boards and do research should always pay less than the uninformed buyer's "market" price (aka sucker's price). Knowledge is power!
On a side note, having an economics and accounting degree, it makes me laugh when dealers throw out terms like "market price", and the finance manager tries to up the price of a car by saying he can lower my monthly payment (paying $10/month for a 5 years is NOT better than paying $20/month for two years).
Everyone should check out carbuyingtips.com
I have a question to all experienced Honda buyers out here. What in your opinion based on previous years of dealing with Honda is the best time to buy Element? Now - when Honda is offering 3.9% (ending 12/5/04) but Element 2004 is not on the dealer’s lot yet. Or wait month or two? How low the price may drop after its arrival? Couple hundreds or thousand?
The matter is I have to buy one until last day of February 2004. And if it is depends on market I am in Chicago.
Thanks for you time and opinion.
Leon.
Does this seem like a good price? I am curious to hear some replies to the previous posting... 2003 now or wait a few more months when the 2004s are on the lot.
I'd say now is as good a time as ever to get an '03, but not for the price quoted to imaveggie. At very least, you should be able to get them down to invoice (around $19,100). With minimal prodding, you can get under $19,000 (at least I did). Must say, however, that I'm not sure about the Chicago market - I'm in Baltimore. As always, timing is critical. The last couple of days in any given month are the best time to get the deal you deserve.
As for the advertised 3.9% interest rate, my advice to that is to ignore the TV ads at all cost. I'd also leave any reference to desired interest rate or monthly payment out of negotiations over the price of the car. Check first with your bank / credit union, as they may be able to do better. Honda Credit can also do better if they know there's competition (I got 3.65% at the end of November). Just like the price of the car, the interest rate they "advertise" isn't their bottome line.
Good luck!
Tom
Orange, EX, 4WD, Auto for $20,186 + tax and tag.
I think it was a reasonably good deal.
Hope this helps somebody else.
The car doesn't like sprinting much and the highway noise is a bit bothersome but it has pretty good handling around town.
For what it is and the cost I think it's a good vehicle.
I think 2004 added keyless entry and passenger armrest but don't notice anything else different form 2003.
Goto
http://www.handa-accessories.com/elementint.html
Search for armrest...looks good, gonna order one.
Last week we went into the second dealership and I told the sales manager I wanted the 2003EX4WD Auto in satin silver with:
Seatback bungees
Shade Screen(for skylight)
Carpet floor mats
Ashtray
Keyless entry
Cargo net
Cargo Cover
Plus taxes, processing, destination, DMV fees-
EVERYTHING
For $20000- NOTHING HIDDEN , NO ADDITIONAL INSTALLATION FEES.
My highest I (silently) felt comforable was $20700.
He took five minutes and said $20850.
We got started on the paperwork.
2/30,000 worth of free oil changes
Of course my fiance wanted the extended dealership warranty which added another $985 so we have 6/100,000 with an insane amount of things covered including rental cars or hotels away from home til the work is finished.
No financing.
Steve, Host
Yopu can have all of the degrees in the world however, it's always the prevaling MARKET that determines pricing. Same thing applies to houses and other things.
So, it really doesn't matter what the dealer paid for a car. If the dealer won the car in a contest, and got it for free, it's still worth whatever the market is at that time.
If a dealer's lot is crammed with a slow selling model, of course, they will take a very slim deal just to move the inventory. If it's a hot seller in short supply it'll be a different story.
This should all seem so simple.
As far as your "floorplan" advise, your facts are terribly distorted but I won't respond to that. No, we do not list or charge a "floorplan" charge. I have no idea what other dealers selling other brands do.
I too thought about springing for the larger armrest, but decided against it when I saw that the installation requires you to cut into the seatback cover with a utility knife. I would think that once the integrity of the fabric is compromised, that little cut can easily become a gaping hole over time. I'll stick with the smaller armrest, thank you.
Thanks very much,
Elby
My tax was around $650
the dmv fees I'm thinking were around $65 but actually all my paperwork is still in the glovebox downstairs and if you want to cross that dmv info, our website is www.dmvnow.com
I didn't study on it and I felt I did most of what I did downstairs already.
She did quote in the office the warranty is generally $1100, but it was my fiance that wanted it
They are closer/easier to get to than Cary/Raleigh dealers for me.
Good luck looking. Don't be afraid to look at the dealers further out of your travelling range to possibly save another thousand dollars and work out a sheet with all your costs you know of and go in and make your own price. if they try to keep you there more than an hour, your best leverage is to walk away because there is always someone somewhere willing to work with you.
I called and asked about the E's with the $19,700 price. The lady, who does business with our company, called me back 2 hours later to inform me that the dealer is "really pushing to get rid of these" and was able to knock the price down $100 to $19,600. Are they serious? Or am I just being cheap? I believe it's still above invoice...way above invoice, but I can't tell cos the 2003s are off Edmunds' website.
I'd appreciate any feedback.
I actually have those around here but I have to find them.
"I'm bored"
"Let's go back to the Toyota dealer"
"LOLOL" (when a price is floated)
"Did you see this big scratch?"
"The color is, um, sort of slimy"
"This is a waste of time"
Alternatively, you can go out into the parking lot every ten minutes and get on your cell phone. You can call Dial A Prayer and pretend you're getting car advice while you're trying to sort through the stuff the salespeople are telling you. Or even call a live friend.
Check out the buying articles under Tips & Advice here, and most accessories (esp. chrome exhaust tips) add zero value to the price of a used car.
Steve, Host
Remember that the higher the mileage , your warranty is being eatten into.
The fact that the car already has what it does is a great thing, but they were already installed so all you can count is the real value.
I think there was a 25 cents per mile rule or something like that on higher milage what you can negotiate.
I didn't want to spend more than $20k total either, but I went with $20,950. That was titles, fees, tags, installation, and my cargo net/shadescreen/air deflector/bungees/keyless/carpet mats/ Mine is a 4WD EX AUTO that came with 183 miles from test drives that I went ahead and overlooked.
I found my invoice(19,262), researched my fees including the standard dealers processing(299), destination(460), state business tax(3.5%)- all that.
Then I picked out options and left off the installation because I didn't know or , nor did I care.
I said I wanted everything for $20000 on an 03 4WD EX AUTO
The first dealership told me my offer was too aggressive and was trying to make them play santa, and didn't even want to go near $20500 at all. My highest comfortable I'd be ready to walk with was $20,750...
... and we walked. I didn't like his attitude, and this was my first dealership car.
So I went to the next place. Walked right in and asked for a sales manager- Gave him my list of things I wanted and showed all the prices I knew and said again $20000, the day before christmas eve. (they do have year end to consider then)
He came back to me twice within 5 minutes and said $20,900.My goal was to stay away under $21000.
That's $20900 for tax, processing, destination, DMV Title and tags for 2 years. Sunshade, carpet mats, bungees, cargo net, ashtray(they didn't have the part and i have the voucher but never went back to install; It wasn't for me anyway), hood deflector, splash guards, keyless entry.
I made it all up myself and my fiance checked and said it sounded good but I can't crunch the numbers that well without my notepad; I can't figure out where it went
I'm sure it would run over that.
I passed mine up because I read that side airbags ended up assisting less than 20% in injuries.
I'm just glad the safety features on todays cars are better than even 10 years ago.
I had my femur snapped last fall in a 91 mazda truck- no impact beams; might have saved my leg from the repairs
The sticker before options was around 20,500. Their options jack it to around $27k ($3k for the wheels and tires, $3k for the paint job, plus window tint). They would basically be willing to forego all their options and give it to me for $20k plus tax, title, license, or $22,500 out the door. It's good that they'll do this, because I'm not sure what these options are worth at the end of the day.
I just feel like I should be getting a better deal, and was hoping to be $20k out the door. After all, this is an 03 that's still sitting around. Any opinions?
that's alot of package maybe they'd go flat 22 or 21,8-
the other thing if you get something like that and they are doing things that honda isn't offering to everyone; at this dealership- make sure that the tires size difference wouldn't void the warranty
I am also curious about anyones experience with after market tuners to increase the HP. Exhaust, manifolds anything else.
Thanks
I read on this board that some people have been able to keep it a day. Hmmm... I just thought that maybe I could keep it for a few hours.
Does anyone know how common extended test drives are? Any experience?
Also... For a 2004 AWD EX Auto, privately financed, no trade-in, would $19800 be a decent price? The Sales Guy stated $20,500. Sticker is 21,600.
Thanks in Advance.
How much lower can I expect to haggle for.
The crazy thing is that the Edmunds.com "True Market Value" Pricing on this website says I hit the mark, but the deals I see on here make me think otherwise. Especially since I'm $1200 over invoice. Is the Edmunds "TMV" Pricing a farce? Am I in the wrong part of the country for supply and demand? I had used the "TMV" pricing to make sure I was getting a good deal, but now it sounds like a total joke.
tidester, host
Could you have paid less? Probably, but at what cost to your time and sanity. You could have been victim of supply and demand, a good salesman, your own lack of preparation.
Bottom line is the time to ask that question was before you bought it. Why beat yourself up over it now when you can't change it. Of course someone is going to say you paid too much and tell you about their great deal.
All of that doesn't change the fact you bought a great car and paid a fair price.
It's also hard to tell if posted prices are real because not all of the data is posted. For example: Are people including destination charge? Are they including documentation fees(if any)? Are some of them a typo? Some are listed as an Element EX AWD but do not state auto or manual transmission. My price of $21200 included the destination charge and no fees of any kind. It was also fresh off the truck that morning with only one mile on the odometer, and it was their only green one, so I'm sure I paid for that combination as well. (There are only about 5 green Elements for sale right now in all of Indianapolis).
As long as it runs for over 200,000 city driving miles I'll be quite happy.