Tundra vs. Big 3

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Comments

  • tundradudetundradude Member Posts: 588
    It will be positioned between the 4 runner and the Landcruiser.
  • ferris47ferris47 Member Posts: 131
    I cannot understand why so many people will buy a particular brand, or nationality simply for the sake of that brand or nationality. I have my bachelers in Business and marketing so bear with me.

    If you continue to purchase a particular brand just because it is a Chevy or Ford or Toyota or whatever, even though the quality is not as good as the other product you give that company a license to continue producing crap. Many peoples argument is it keeps Americans in jobs, but if a major auto maker realizes it can produce crap and be lax on quality control, materials etc they are going to start cutting back to make an extra buck and cutting back means fewer engineers, quality control, etc.

    The other argument is that we are keeping the dollar in the country. Let's face facts. Your dollar is going into the pocket of whoever is at the top of that companys food chain. They, be they American or Japenese, are laughing all the way to the bank.

    Let's face facts it is truely a world economy these days and money makes the world go round. I think this is good because if we have a vested interest in each other, there is less chance we will blow each other up.

    Now me personally, I have a chip on my shoulder against all "big" corporations simply because I have learned that the only thing that matters is the bottom line no matter what. Employees are just assets, customers are cattle. They will all use whatever means possible to seperate you from you money with the least cost to them. That is the nature of the beast. Again not always a bad thing. The problem is we has consumers have to use the only power we have, our buying power, to force every company to build good products and back them up with good customer service.

    So as far as I am concerned I agree with Rocles, let Toyota raise the bar, let Chevy jump over that bar, let Ford come out with the next best thing. As long as they all know we will all go where the best product for the dollar is they will always strive to one up the other with a better product. This is good for all of us.

    As soon as we as consumers, start buying just because of reputation or brand loyalty they will all start resting on their laurels and start cutting back on what they give us for our dollar.

    The point of the matter is that the Tundra is an excellent truck that can do all the things a domestic full size half ton can do and more, Ok except for that back seat thing.

    Does this make the Tundra the best thing since sliced bread? No. What is the strongest point for the Tundra? Simple, it is an excellent truck that dared to do things differently and you know what it has made enough waves with the domestics and the people who drive domestics that I bet you Chevy, Ford and Dodge all make better vehicles and then Toyota will be forced to make a better vehicle and so on.

    Drive what you want and like, but don't ever think any huge corporation cares more about you than the dollar, yen, rupie, or pound that you spend.

    Sorry for the huge ranting post. I have just had a long day at work and felt like ranting. There are so many people on this board who provide real info and pretty funny commentary but there are also so many who constantly say the same thing over and over again with no apparent reason but to say my truck is bigger than your truck. I speak of Toyota and Domestic people.

    Let's just say that all the truck makers are making a superior product these days, but only one is willing to back it up with a better warr. Why won't the domestics do it. Simple to save a buck. Toyota quality any better. Probably not in the whole scheme of things, maybe marginally but at least they fix it if it breaks.

    Ok, sorry for the book, but it sure felt good to type something other than ins. programming.

    "If a Silverado Runs into a Tundra at 65mph in the forest with nobody around to hear it, does it make a sound."
  • rwellbaum2rwellbaum2 Member Posts: 1,006
    Okay, you Tundra haters are gonna have a field day with this one. It's was raining for about a week here in NorCal. I took the tundra to a local trail I know of. I tried to go up a 45 degree slippery with red clay mud slope. Couldn't do it! Tried a running start and got about halfway then started sliding back down. My question is this. If your still sliding with the brakes applied(wheels not moving) then would a locking diff be of any benefit? I think the only way I could have gotten farther would be to have more aggressive tread or better yet, chains.
  • andy_jordanandy_jordan Member Posts: 764
    My understanding is that locking diff would have been of zero help. Essentially you were just a hunk of metal on a slope with enough force acting on you (gravity) to overcome inertia (which was reduced by the slippery surface and slope). Once you lost your forward momentum you were doomed.

    To bring two threads together - what you needed to get up there was a Unimog.
  • eagleeye1eagleeye1 Member Posts: 36
    Farris47, that is the best post I have read in many a day. Thank you for your excellent comments.
  • powerisfunpowerisfun Member Posts: 358
    Very well put. I couldn't have said it better.

    vince8:
    I don't know if your post was directed at me or not (it was the one right before yours). I never claimed that Americans were lazy or that the Japanese weren't. I just said that brand loyalty and domestic loyalty breeds laziness. That applies equally well to Toyota. If everyone bought a Toyota or Honda, without regard to value, quality, etc. They would soon go to crap as well.
    My point was that competition of any kind is welcome. The major winner of that competition is the consumer.
    -powerisfun
  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    Your 5th chapter states that all big corporations only care about the bottom line.How do you know that the japanese companies aren't the same Toyota is the exact same way,I'm not a 100% sure but I think those factory workers in Indiana are not UAW which means they are probably working for a low wage and crappy benefits and no union to back them.I know nobody can do for me what my union has done for me,I have one of the best health plans in the country,annuity,pension, when I retire I will retire with dignity.Now again I'm not sure if they UAW if they aren't then there no better than any other corporation.
  • eagleeye1eagleeye1 Member Posts: 36
    They don't have unions becuase they don't need them! They are well paid, treated very well and feel like they are wanted and needed. American nameplates could learn a thing or two from the Japanese in this regard.
  • powerisfunpowerisfun Member Posts: 358
    Think what the UAW has done to non-auto workers. They've raised the price of cars to the point where anyone who's not an educated professional or lucky enough to be an autoworker (and that's all it takes to work there, luck!) can hardly afford to buy a new car. I understand why the auto-workers love their union. Auto-workers are rich!...at everyone else's expense. It's just like a tax. It may as well be called the UAW Tax on the window sticker. To keep this Tax possible, they cried and whined till the US made the imports pay a tariff that equalized the price of the competition.

    With a little overtime, autoworkers make more than most professionals. I know this because several of my family members (uncles, cousins) are autoworkers and I see the injustice of it. All my other family members, some of whom have college degrees, are struggling with a normal paying jobs while the auto workers are bringing in 6 figures or close to it. My uncles aren't just retiring with dignity, they're retiring with huge bank accounts, expensive cars, and vacation beach houses.
    Sorry for the rant!
    -powerisfun
  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    I don't know about that prices being raised through the roof I know all vehicles are expensive but thats not because of the UAW.There was one post on Edmunds where someone actually paid more for a Tundra 4x2 access cab V8 SR5 than I paid for my F250 XLT 4x4 4 door supercab with the 5.4 auto.Maybe the tundras are assembled by UAW workers I don't know either way they are expensive for what you get.I'm not saying the F series trucks are the best but they are the best selling 22 years straight and they have been the best vehicle the last few years outselling any car or truck on the planet.They must be doing something right,also there's another option that Ford has that I don't think any other truck offers, Failsafe cooling where you can drive without any coolant at all, may sound stupid but if you are offroading or out in the middle of nowhere and you puncture your radiator you can drive for help rather than walk.
    I'm not gonna rub it in on the unions some people like em some hate em but I will say its worked for me.
  • myersedmyersed Member Posts: 102
    Well I cant believe it- the same names continue showing up from topic-to-topic to "slam bam" the other guys truck.
    I have learned one thing over the last six months - there are a lot of opinions, experience and knowledge amongt the group so it brings me to my question which I hoped one of you might be able to help.
    Is anyone aware of an address or Phone # to
    Protecta?
    I have searched the net and can not locate the
    Protecta company which manufactures the bedliner
    mats. I want the Protecta Heavy heavyweight Bedmat for the Dakota QuadCab and have been unable to determine if there is one even made yet. I do not want the standard Protecta bedmat.

    Oh! Yes, I finally decided on the Dodge Dakota Quad Cab- I won't debate it's pros or cons because it is what I wanted and what I got after looking at all of the trucks. My 19 year old F150 was getting old as was I, from looking.
    Any help with the Protecta bedmat company would be appreciated- Ed
  • myersedmyersed Member Posts: 102
    I'll give em a call tomorrow
  • bigsnagbigsnag Member Posts: 394
    Is the bed the same length as a regular dakota short bed?
  • ferris47ferris47 Member Posts: 131
    I was actually talking about all corporations. Just because I have a Toyota, right now, does not mean I think they are this company sent from the heavens above to service my every need. Hell they still put a serious markup on any of their trucks, just like everybody else and why, cuz we all pay it.

    On a lighter note, we all argue our points on which truck is better etc. but don't you find it funny that all the car guys just can't understand what the "Truck Freaks" see in their trucks. Cracks me up.

    On a Tundra note anybody get a chance to hear the TRD exhaust for the Tundra. I have only read posts from one other person who actually has it. Costs about as much as Borla but you get a 5 year warr. on it too.

    Myersed, are you getting the 4.7 V8? I hear that engine with a 5 spd will tear up the R/Ts. Would be interested to drive one at some point. Good luck with the Quad. Just on looks alone I think it looks much better then what Ford or Nissan is offering.
  • bud_light_dudebud_light_dude Member Posts: 330
    but just making an observation based your post. The Borla is very expensive. Don't know how much difference in price compared to the Tundra TRD exhaust. However, all the Borla exhausts I have seen, carry a "lifetime" warranty.

    Might be something to consider.
  • ferris47ferris47 Member Posts: 131
    I have heard that Borla has a lifetime warr. but I have also heard that they tend to be sticklers on what they will and will not cover. Everybody does seem to like Borla though and they have a nice sound to them. I like the way my Tundra sounds out of the box I would just like a little richer sound from about 0 to 1800 rpm. Just picky. Not enough to warrent me spending 600.00 on anything. What I would like to spend that money on is a hard tonneau. We will see. Anybody from TN have any advice there.

    On another truck note, anybody seen the concept for the Chevy SSR, I think it was SSR, blue street truck. Very cool. Would like to see that done up as a production model with a big ole LS1 in it.

    So many toys so few dollars.
  • bud_light_dudebud_light_dude Member Posts: 330
    Isn't it great living in a democratic society with so many choices in toy's available??!

    Men without toys are men without life! Well, sounded good anyway!

    God I love the USA!
  • ferris47ferris47 Member Posts: 131
    Tell me about it. I gotta thank God every day for giving me the ability to play with most of the toys that I want, when I want and give me a cold beer to drink when I am done. We are all pretty lucky to be bantering back and forth about our brand new trucks with more bells and whistles than your average 60s or 70s spacecraft.

    I laugh when I drive my Tundra because I think about an old bumper sticker that I saw years ago on an older Toyota SR5 truck. The truck was jacked up, had the big tires pretty nice looking truck. The bumper sticker read "Born in Japan....But Raised in America" I don't know why that came to mind.
  • bud_light_dudebud_light_dude Member Posts: 330
    Yep, I agree. Lots of toys and a beer when we are done playing. What more could a man ask for?!
    Everyone had the same toys to play with, that would be no fun at all!

    I owned two Toyotas. They are good trucks. Would buy another one with no qualms at all if my need and preference changed.

    Pretty cool bumper sticker.
  • rs_pettyrs_petty Member Posts: 423
    I too like the SSR concept - is there a topic on it?
  • ferris47ferris47 Member Posts: 131
    I don't think there is a forum set up yet. I would still like to see a Silverado SS produced. I think they should all have their own lightning. You know drop the viper V10 in a Ram, do a little exhaust/suspension work. Bring the Silverado SS out to see the light of day and produce it. Have TRD slap a supercharger on the Tundra and give it some suspension work and there you have the modern day equivilent of the muscle car era. Big V8s rear wheel drive and reasonable prices........oh did I say that. That is what it should have been if the truck craze had not picked up so fast. There is too much profit built into the trucks and SUVs.

    I guess I like trucks because I can get that V8 rush, smoke the rear and fishtail when I want, and still actually enjoy driving it every day. I can even bring a sofa home if I want to. To me it is the best of all worlds wrapped into one. The insurance is dirt cheap too.

    Does anybody think Toyota will release a quad cab version of the Tundra? I think that would be kinda cool, as I like the looks and functionality for my purposes of the Dodge Dakota QCab. I just don't like that it is a Dodge. Not bashing just had a bad experience.
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    I hope these concepts come true, but faced with the realities of CAFE and now, tougher emissions requirements for certification, same as cars, I heard horsepower may be coming down starting in 2002 I believe.
  • rs_pettyrs_petty Member Posts: 423
    Man after my own heart. That's one of the reasons I like pickups. Grew up on the V8/RWD combination and like it. Full frames, longevity, simplicity, etc... Any pickup of any manufacturer is better than any front drive car IMHO. What about an SSR with a supercharged baby diesel that gets about 35 MPG for under 25 grand?
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    Nice to be able to just crawl under there to change the oil too. No lift required!
  • ferris47ferris47 Member Posts: 131
    There is no need for horsepower to drop. I am not saying it won't but Ford has a natural gas powered Mustang that will blow the doors off most any sports cars on the road. It can compete to say the least. The point is there is always more than one way to skin a cat. I am all for a cleaner environment and I am certainly for better gas mileage, I just don't think people think outside the box enough to realize with a little ingenuity you can still have your 300 horsepower sportscar that gets 50 mpg. It can be done, will the oil companys let it happen..........not until they are forced to. My Tundra might not get the best MPG on the block but it is a certified LEV vehicle, as is the Ford Excursion. As the government forces companies to act they will and they will do everything in there power to continue to give the consumer what they want too because that is where the almighty dollar comes from.
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    Well I think they are dropping the allowable content of sulfur, and adding more platinum to the catalytic converters as part of the plan.

    CNG, propane and alchohol are all clean, can make the same horsepower, but with a lower BTU/gal content, the range per tankful is not as good yet.
  • swobigswobig Member Posts: 634
    and you notice about a 5% loss in power between propane and gasoline. Not much, but the octance on propane is much higher (110?) than gasoline. Engines burn cleaner, but mileage is worse. I have a dual-fuel 94 F250 4X4 460 - gets about 10 on gas and 7.5 on propane. But we get it cheaper than gas, so we primarily use propane. Our heavy delivery trucks run on propane too, but there's no substitute for a good diesel...
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    Motor Trend magazine that came in the mail today has an article about the Sequoia. It is larger than a Tahoe and smaller than an Expedition. 203.9 inches bumper to bumper with a 118.1 inch wheelbase. Seats 8 with bench seat in front. Will be out late in 2000 as a 2001 model. Cost - $35,000 for a 2 wheel drive, $40,000 for the 4x4.

    I have a 98 Tahoe and may be in the mood to trade about the time the Sequoia comes out. My only question is about the tranny and transfer case. I have seen posts that claim the Tundra uses the tranny from the T-100 and the transfer case from the Tacoma. Can any of you Tundra owners confirm this? I have a hard time believing this could be true...
  • cskalacskala Member Posts: 23
    I'm not blue. I just came to the Tundra sites to read some interesting info (read factual) on the Tundra.But okay, You win. I'm so tired of your half literate attempts at criticism that I'm not going to visit the Edmunds sites anymore. I'm just going to spend my extra time enjoying my non-UAW, non-full sized, part Tacoma, Big 3 wanna be. And you'll probably see a smile on my face! You can wave at me from the nursing home window while you're getting your daily enema.

    P.S. Quit throwing your lithium away--you need it!!
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    I can confirm the Tacoma parts used in the Tundra.

    Jan 2000 edition of 4 Wheeler Magazine.
    Article "Pickup truck of the year."
    They show photograph in side-bar.

    Says the automatic transmission is from a T100, transfer case from Tacoma.
  • rwellbaum2rwellbaum2 Member Posts: 1,006
    Is it bad to use highly reliable and proven designs? This speaks to the longevity issue. On one hand the Tundra bashers say it's new and isn't proven yet. Out of the other side of their mouth they bash it for using standard parts that have proven reliability. Their rhetoric is getting very strained from lack of substantial criticisms.
  • bud_light_dudebud_light_dude Member Posts: 330
    Post #97 only further validates my point. You are clueless and have no credibility whatsoever.

    I will not resort to your juvenile behavior by retaliating posts. I am an adult and choose to act like one.

    Your brand bashing and disrespect to others only further discredits your claim to Toyota superiority. Sounds to me from the posts of Toyota owners that only the juvenile and obnoxious crowd buy Toyota's. Why would anyone rush to be associated with that?

    Laugh all you want, but the laugh is on you.
  • mviglianco1mviglianco1 Member Posts: 283
    You continue to claim you are above name calling and bashing while in the same breath you label all Toyota owners as juvenile and obnoxoius. Again I ask why does it get you so worked up that someone has a different opinion than you? Why is it okay to put down a Toyota but as soon as someone gives their opinion about a GM product it becomes "juvenile and obnoxious"?
    I am not accusing you of bashing Toyotas but it does not seem to make you so angry when someone does. But when someone says something negative about GM the rules change and it is now ok to sling mud.

    This discussion has pretty much been Tundra owners saying that they like there truck so far and it does what they need it to. On the other hand the underlying tone of the domestic owners is being overly defensive and trying to do anything to discredit the Tundra, 90% having never even sat in one. I am not trying to say all domestic owners in here are like this and that there are no "juvenile" posts from Toyota owners but if you own a Toyota you already have 10 enemies that you have never met just because you dont own the same truck that some "red blooded American" has determined is for everyone.
  • bud_light_dudebud_light_dude Member Posts: 330
    I do not condone bashing from either side. I have not bashed Toyotas at all. I have made points that, I too, have had bad experiences with Toyota. Way more than with GM vehicles, but I still don't think Toyota is junk and I don't come in any of these topics with a brand superiority attitude.

    I VALUE experiences people can share here, both good and bad. However, even bad experiences can be voiced without slamming and disrespect. That is something that the Toyota owners around here don't seem to be able to do.

    I don't think that juvenile and obnoxious constitutes name calling. Name calling is referring to someone as something outside of their true character. If I were being immature and bashing and being disrespectful, I would not consider it name calling if I were told so. It would be factual and within the character I am portraying. Fact is, these bashers ARE being juvenile and obnoxious flaming everyone how superior their Toyota's are.

    I don't get upset about the bashing of my truck choice. I get tired of coming here hoping to get good and real live experiences shared so I can be more informed about the Toyota Tundra. Never know, I may decide to buy one someday. I sure would be swayed different after seeing what kind of people drive them. I sure wouldn't want to be associated with this crowd.

    I get tired of going to posts to get info (what this board is meant to provide), only to get a bunch of kids throwing tantrums about how much better their truck is over the another.

    It's all a bunch of crap and a waste of EVERYONES time!
  • tp4unctp4unc Member Posts: 437
    Goodbye.
  • tp4unctp4unc Member Posts: 437
    QUIT YOUR WHINING!!!!
  • mviglianco1mviglianco1 Member Posts: 283
    I do see your point but still hear you generalizing and categorizing people into truck types. I could say something like all Chevy drivers are NASCAR freaks who live on a farm in the South and are mean spirited towards people who dont own GM products because I have witnessed each quality/situation listed above in seperate individuals but that does not justify lumping all Chevy divers into that category.

    Would you really not drive a vehicle because an [non-permissible content removed] somewhere happens to drive one? I am sure some real pricks own 911s but that sure wouldn't sway me from driving one if I could.

    Calling Toyota owners juvenile and obnoxious is a huge generalization and while I am not sensitive to things like that it is bashing.

    On another note, I think it was you who mentioned Amsoil. Do you use the airfilter?
  • mviglianco1mviglianco1 Member Posts: 283
    In my previous post I dont mean to say any one person in here fits that description but that those are things pulled from seperate individuals.
  • bud_light_dudebud_light_dude Member Posts: 330
    I do not prefer to use the Amsoil air filters. I think the additional foam on the exterior can be smothering and without it, it does not filter enough.

    For my research, I prefer the good ole' stock filter systems. Some may find they save money with a filter that can be washed and reused. Certainly not untrue. I just don't see any freer flowing benefits really and it is a pain to upkeep, "in my opinion".

    Again, this is just my opinion. I won't go to the extent of saying that my preference is fact and that anyone who uses an Amsoil filter is using an inferior air cleaning system. Seems to be what others around here try to do .

    When the bashing of Toyota owners ceases and we can all converse about the differences of each others trucks, good and bad, without slamming, I will retract my statements about Toyota owners being juvenile and obnoxious. However, post #'s 102 and 103 are perfect examples of the immaturity I speak of.

    After all, you and I just had a decent, non-bashing converse about air filters and I am pretty sure most people will disagree with my opinion on the free flowing intakes. Why can't all discussions be like this? All these topics always end up in domestics being junk and imports superior, which is just an opinion and no more factual than Bill Clinton didn't inhale.
  • tp4unctp4unc Member Posts: 437
    I think YOUR truck stinks but I'm sure your filter is fine. Is that better?! LOL
  • mviglianco1mviglianco1 Member Posts: 283
    I dont think tp4unc's problem is that he drives a Toyota, I think it is the that he goes to UNC. LOL!!
  • tp4unctp4unc Member Posts: 437
    I WENT(many moons ago) to UNC and damn proud of it. We kicked butt in football this past year(3 wins) and are kicking butt in basketball now(3 wins?). LOL! You aren't a Dookie are you?
  • rwellbaum2rwellbaum2 Member Posts: 1,006
    Was just about ready to say good-bye. Guess you couldn't bear to leave us, so welcome back. If you can't take don't dish it out. Stop whining about bashing and be a man. If you are interested in the Tundra then maybe you should ask us how we like it, instead of telling us what horrible trucks Toyota made for you.
  • bud_light_dudebud_light_dude Member Posts: 330
    You all keep missing the point I made about the Toyotas I had problems with. Many moons ago, I was here and there were some decent forms of info floating around. Good info on experiences of the Tundra. Then it all turned to bashing about this truck and that truck. People being disrespectful, just like your last post. I am far from a whiner. You may refer to my posts as whining because I act like an adult and have tried to eliminate all the bashing and crap going on in here. You were one of the ones that started all of it. Why? It seems like you are a [non-permissible content removed] disturber. You and Rueblue are two peas in a pod. You both argue like school kids on the playground and neither of you have any facts to support your arguements. You both spout off this thing or that and really neither of you have anything of value to add, just bitching at each other. I consider myself one of the ones that got caught in the middle, but I was the only one to, in your words, whine about it.

    My info about the Toyota experiences I had was information asked for, not volunteered. Someone asked me about those experiences. I told my story to further elaborate that I have been conversing here for some time now civilly. I have had many good posts of info with Toyota owners that do not agree with your pissing contests any more than I do. Even though I have had bad Toyota experiences, I havn't come here and gone off about how Toyota was junk and how I got screwed by Toyota. I don't think Toyota screwed me. See, I can honestly admit that my bad experiences were isolated and do not reflect the truck make as a whole. However, you Toyota owners here hear one bad experience about a domestic and that is just one more claim to so-called Toyota superiority. What crap.

    I did not start this arguement, you and your Toyota buddies did. I have not bashed your Toyota's and disrespected you in the beginning. You did. Then when I try and make peace on both sides, you label me a Toyota basher and hater and start in with your juvenile nonsense with me too.

    You all need to grow up and learn to respect people. You will get no respect until you do.
  • bud_light_dudebud_light_dude Member Posts: 330
    You must have been raised in a very disfunctional home as a child. You were not brought up with respect for yourself or for others. It shows in your posts.

    For your sake, I hope you mature soon.

    Laugh all you want, I am confident in myself. The laugh is on you. Anyone who must belittle others to feel good about themselves, has no self-esteem.
  • bud_light_dudebud_light_dude Member Posts: 330
    I still havn't gotten anyone to tell me about the actual advantages or disadvantages of the ohc design in a truck. The Ford is a very good hauler and has ohc. Can any of you Toyota owners clearly and fully elaborate on the ohc design of your Tundra???? Elaborate on how the design of your truck is better than one of the big 3 in reliablility and functionality, please?

    I would guess the reason nobody has answered is because you don't really know, but yet you know for a fact that your Tundra is a better truck, hands down. Very interesting.
  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    There is an article at www.wardsauto.com regarding the 10 best engines.
  • swobigswobig Member Posts: 634
    kept timing out. But, I would be interested in knowing the advantages of the OHC design. The pushrod 4.8L that GM uses is rated at 270 Horse and 290 torque? Toyota is rated 245 Horse, 315 Torque. Actually a pretty even comparison - which has the advantage...
  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    Try it again www.wardsauto.com ,just for the record the 5.4 triton V8 was one of the best it beat out the GM and Toyota 4.7.
  • mviglianco1mviglianco1 Member Posts: 283
    Just kidding about the UNC reference, I have many friends and family members who went there. I changed my mind at the last minute and decided not to attend either UNC or NCSU and went where I knew I would be happier, in the mtns at ASU with intentions of transferring into Engineering at State. After living in the mtns and there was no way I could consider living in that part of the state (no offense) considering the outdoor hobbies I had acquired.
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