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Comments
1) If you put nothing down on it, your lease payment is 429.33 and after 6 months you have a total outlay of $2576 and the balance owed to the bank is $28K. The insurance company pays them the $24K, and the GAP insurance pays them the balance. Total cost: $2576
2) If you put $5K down on the lease, your payment is $280.44 and after six months your total of payments and down payment is $6682 and the balance owed to the bank is $23834. The insurance company pays $24K, which would be $166 over what is owed. Assuming you get the overage back, total cost: $6546
Under this scenario, your $5K downpayment cost you $3970. The amount saved in finance charges assuming you complete the lease is about $360 (assuming MF of .002).
For $10 month, I'd rather keep my money in the bank. You can change the numbers and the savings can be more or less.. this was just to illustrate the math behind the advice.
regards,
kyfdx
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Thanks for the example. I would just argue that the insurance co. will value it much higher than that. A six month old car will actually come out close to the original purchase price. I guess it varies by insurance co. but in my real life experience, the retail + tax + registration, etc.. came up to $4K more than what I thought the car was worth. I was actually surprised (pleasantly of course). I also wonder if the GAP is even utilized much these days. But again, this just my own experience. Since one can't assume all insurance will do the same, I suppose the safe thing is to go with your example as the worst case scenario.
I totaled a car in '02 and was also pleasantly surprised by the payoff, but it was MY car, not the bank's, and I'd been with the same company since '85 with over ten years accident-free.
It may not ever happen, but I think it is a good rule of thumb to pay as little up front as possible on a lease.
regards,
kyfdx
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My belief is that the insurance company will pay any overage to the lessee; they treat the lease effectively the same way as they would treat a purchase transaction, and treat the lessee as they would the purchaser. Once the owner/lessor is paid off, any overage should go to the lessee. I'm not an expert on this; can anyone confirm?
My advice still stands.. Don't make any cap cost reduction at lease inception. Then, you won't have to worry about it.
regards,
kyfdx
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regards,
kyfdx
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MSRP: $41,345.00
Price to Pay: $38,565.00
Price difference: $2,780.00
X3 2.5i - Black Sapphire Metallic/Black Leather
Cold Wx Package
Premium Package
Auto Transmission
Xenon headlights
Navigation System
Mats included
No processing fee
Assumptions: 3yr/45K, cap cost of $1000 over invoice plus acquisition fee rolled into cap cost. 6% tax. Only upfront costs are: 1st payment, security deposit, registration fees.
MSRP: $40,045
Pymt: $502/mo. tax included.
Hope this info is useful.
regards,
kyfdx
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Now I see that my dealer is advertising a 3.0 with an MSRP $3000 higher than my X3 at a monthly lease price $10 per month less (works out to $3500 off MSRP).
It seems that there are better deals available on the 3.0 than the 2.5, and that generally, selling prices are down substantially since June. Should I renegotiate the price on my ordered vehicle? Tell them I want a 3.0 at the better price, even though I custom ordered the 2.5? I don't want to be unfair to the dealer, but I do feel I should get "market" pricing. Am I right?
regards,
kyfdx
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I think your best bet would be to get them to use the new MF/residual numbers for July and see how that helps your payment. A small change could net you $25/month. Equivalent to negotiating a $900 lower price on the car. Using the July numbers costs them nothing, but lowering the price of the car comes right off their bottom line. I would think the former would be easier to accomplish.
regards,
kyfdx
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regards,
kyfdx
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Please respond with your daytime contact info and a few words about your experience to jfallon@edmunds.com asap no later than Tuesday, August 3, 2004.
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X3 2.5i with automatic transmission, power roof, privacy glass, silver metallic
Cap cost: $34,445
Amount due at inception: $1,148.17 (1st mo, reg, bank fee, doc fee - no down pymt)
39 months; 10,000 miles/year
Monthly payment: $425
Seems a bit high.
And does the price include tax?
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The reason it seems high to me is that the BMW website provides the info for the X3 2.5i lease - MSRP $32,270 (with automatic), monthly pymt of $298, total lease pymts of $11,622, $3,098 due at signing includes $298 first month pymt, $1,975 down pymt, $800 acq fee, $298 sec deposit. Excludes tax, title, license and registration.
I would never put a down pymt on a lease, so backing the $1,975 suggested down pymt and $800 acquisition fee into the total lease pymts of $11,622, would raise the total lease pymts to $14,397. Over 39 months that is $369/mo plus 7% tax is about $395/mo. At signing, I would just pay the 1st month, sec deposit and title/registration nominal fees. Am I missing something here?
regards,
kyfdx
EDIT: Also, add about $5/mo for more interest on a higher cap cost and residual. It looks like you are getting the car for about $800 less than the advertised deal.
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MF is .0011
3yr/45K residual is 59%
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not specific as to vehicle!
2004 X3 2.5
Sale Price= 40,500
residual= 62% (25,866)
term= 39 month
rate= .00135 (about3.25%)
payment= 484.38+tax(44.08)= total=528.46
Will you comment for me on how to proceed. According to what I read on this forum, I would be getting soaking on the price and the money factor. Plus he did not state the features on the car. How much should I ask for off of the MSRP? I do not want to put anything down except 1st payment license etc. The BMW sales guy said even if you credit rating is 775 we still require security dep. is this true? He said all BMW dealers require it.
thanks!
If they used the base MF, that would knock about $17/month off the lease. From looking through previous posts, it looks like you could maybe knock about $750 more off the sale price, also, but that depends on the dealer.
If the MSRP is indeed $41,750 (or close), then this is the deal I would want:
MSRP $41,750
Selling price $39,750
Cap cost (including Acq.fee of $525) $40,275
Residual 62% (10K per year, right?)
39 month payment $444 plus tax
If you want 12K miles per year, it decreases the residual by 1%, which will raise the payment about $10/mo. pre-tax.
All of this would be with only 1st payment, security deposit, and title/registration upfront. So, with tax, figure $1000-$1200 depending on title fees in your state.
Can you get that deal? I'm not sure.. depends on your dealer. For the first offer, they aren't that far off, though.. $40/month difference.
regards,
kyfdx
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The heavily optioned ones at my local dealer sticker for about $39K. Strippers for about $33.5K.
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not specific as to vehicle!
2004 X3 2.5
Sale Price= 40,500
residual= 62% (25,866)
term= 39 month
rate= .00135 (about3.25%)
payment= 484.38+tax(44.08)= total=528.46
Will you comment for me on how to proceed. According to what I read on this forum, I would be getting soaking on the price and the money factor. Plus he did not state the features on the car. How much should I ask for off of the MSRP? I do not want to put anything down except 1st payment license etc. The BMW sales guy said even if you credit rating is 775 we still require security dep. is this true? He said all BMW dealers require it.
thanks!
I have always bought my cars never leased. What do you recommend? (They told me 2.9* rate but I think the going BMW rate is 1.9%)
The current lease deals on the X3 are attractive, though.. A price of under $500 month including tax is a great deal on a $40K+ car.
regards,
kyfdx
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Here's the quote I got today from an area dealer:
X3 2.5i base price = 30,300.00
Automatic Transmission = 1275.00
Panoramic Moonroof = 1350.00
Power Front Seats = 995.00
Destination Charge = 695.00
Suggested Sale Price = 33,000.00
Residual Value = 61% [12,000 miles per year]
Money Factor = 0.0013
Initial out-of-pocket payment: 1130.00
Lease payment per month = $414.00
Lease period = 36 months.
I'm in Massachusetts where sales tax is 5%. Do these numbers look decent?
Incidentally, if I want the target monthly payment to come down to $398 AND increase the annual allowance to 15,000 miles, what numbers to need to change>?
MSRP $35,400
Cap cost $33,525 (sale price plus $525 acquisition fee)
MF .0013 (I think this is bumped up from .0011)
59% residual
Payment $394.81 + $19.74tax = $414.55/mo.
When I figure 61% residual, I get $396.46 for the total payment.
Maybe your dealer is adding something else into the cap cost that he isn't telling you about (doc fees, etc.?). That said, that would be a very aggressive sale price.
If you use the base MF of .0011 and the 59% residual for 15K, and the above MSRP and cap cost, the payment actually comes out to $403/mo. tax included. I'm assuming that MA taxes the lease payment each month... If the tax is figured differently from that, it could change the figures.
You aren't too far off from a great deal.. That sale price is really low.. even at the place you are now, you are only $30/mo off a rock bottom deal. I'd ask them to verify all the figures, residuals, etc.. and push them to use the base MF (.0011) for the lease. Or, if you want to simplify matters, just make your offer like this:
Initial payment of $1130
39 month/15K yearly mileage
Payment of $400/month tax included.
I'm sure they'll counter offer, if that isn't good enough, and you can always come up $5-$15/month... It looks like you are in the same ballpark.. Good luck.
regards,
kyfdx
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HELP PLEASE!!
Looking at:
X3 2.5i
Steptronic Transmission
Premium
Cold Weather (Could not get only heated seats!)
MSRP = 36,570
Invoice = 33,555
The dealer wants $500 over invoice in addition to his huge processing fee of $400.
The earlier deal posted on #86 (Truck for invoice + MACO + $225 processing + TT) was for just one SAV - a Black on Black leatherette automatic with heated seats and cruise control. The dealer mentioned that he had 'punched' it as a 'Demo' - and that was the reason he could offer it at invoice. The car only had 12 miles on it.
Are there any deals to be made as it is nearing the year end?
HELP!! Thanks!
kyfdx, this is what happens when you talk people out of buying SAABs...they keep hitting you for more advice!! ;o)
If you are open to leasing, they have pretty good rates for that also... For instance, using your proposed deal above, and if the dealer uses the base rates, you could lease it for 39mo/15K for about $435/mo with 7%tax included, with only 1st payment and security deposit upfront.
regards,
kyfdx
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I've heard people complain about the whistling sun-roof and some other stuff. Do you have any personal opinion on the truck? I do respect your knowledge and selfless, unbiased opinions.....I did manage to convince my wife to 'reconsider' the SAAB 9-3 Arc. I don't want to come in between her new choice...unless there are some glaring issues!!
Thanks a TON!!
But, I like most BMWs and am biased towards them a little.
regards,
kyfdx
Compared to a Saab 9-3, I doubt you'll find many issues... Compared to a Honda Civic, it may be a PITA.
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I've heard people complain about the whistling sun-roof and some other stuff. Do you have any personal opinion on the truck? I do respect your knowledge and selfless, unbiased opinions.....I did manage to convince my wife to 'reconsider' the SAAB 9-3 Arc. I don't want to come in between her new choice...unless there are some glaring issues!!
Thanks a TON!!
I recently went to a BMW dealer and most X3 2.5i models left only had auto transmission, power moon roof, metallic paint and heated front seats. I checked on edmunds, the invoice is $31,755. The dealer said my number is wrong, according to him, it's $31,955. He offered me $32,855, which is $31,955 plus $400 preparation fee (what is this?) plus $500 profit for him. I don't know why his number is different to edmunds'. I also asked about programming the car to flash when locking, he told me that it is part of the alarm system and cost $405.
So is this a good deal? From their online inventory I can see that they still have a dozen cars with this configuration and color. Should I wait or this deal is good enough?
Thanks a lot!
BAD IDEAR!!!
We did purchase the X3 yesterday:
2.5 litre engine
Steptronic
Premium
Heated Seats
Privacy Glass
Satellite prep
Blue Water Mettalic paint
Mats
1.9% financing
Invoice - $34,375 (+ cost of Mats)
Paid - $34,855 + TTT.
Essentially paid $480 over invoice...which included MACO + Dealer processing + Dealer profit....didn't bother with specifics, just negotiated the bottom dollar.
Thanks a ton kyfdx!!! Appreciate all your help over the past few months.
A BIG THANKS to all of you out there sharing your thoughts and experiences!!! It would have been impossible to get such a great deal with out your posts and help!!
THANKS!!!!
regards,
kyfdx
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The $1,200 cash-to-dealer is only for the 3-series cars. While shopping for the X3 I asked 3 dealers about the cash - they all came back with the same answer. IF there is something special for the 3.0 vs. the 2.5 - I have no knowledge of these specials?!
What APR are they offering you? You can push for 1.9%. A 1% difference on a $40,000 truck will save you $1,050.
Best of luck!
I haven't heard if that is still in place, but it may be. If you think you'll trade in 3 years and depreciation is an issue, then I would suggest leasing an '04. They have great deals on 39 month leases right now.
If leasing doesn't work for you, I'd suggest waiting till between Xmas and New years to make a deal on an '05. If you plan on ordering, to make sure you don't pay for extra options, then it is a little tougher to make a strong deal and you may end up paying more than what you save in depreciation on an '05. And, I'm certain you won't see 1.9% financing on the '05s.
regards,
kyfdx
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- Premium and cold package, upgrade paint scheme.
Details:
Sell Price= 35,115
MSRP - $37,295
$500 over invoice. But I was told about some $150 training fee (???) by BMW and of course the $250 MACO, additional. $650 acquisition fee.
Term 39 months, 15k miles, with .20 over.
Residual: 22,004.05, 59%
Rate is .0013 from .0015 offered by them despite bringing up base level of .0011 that is their hold point.
I have another dealer that is proposing $500 over invoice at a .0011 rate factor, but does not have the vehicle in stock that I am interested in and not sure of timeline. Could I get the same vehicle easily through another dealer or could this get messy.
One, seems like a good deal at this point despite the difference of $12/month in payment.
Thoughts?
I come up with $424.58 + tax for your deal using the .0013 MF. That assumes no cap cost reduction, acquisition fee added into cap cost and only 1st payment and security deposit upfront. Actually, $11.53.mo. less using .0011
I stopped by the dealer today... They had about 20 X3s in stock... I love the BlueWater metallic.
regards,
kyfdx
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In reference to price, I believe I got a decent deal at Invoice+$500. I got a 2.5 with manual transmition, heated leather seats and panorama sunroof. I paid around $1,500 down and $370/month in NY. Difficult to find an SUV with similar characteristics at this price range and to those of you suggesting that leasing is not a good option I strongly disagree given the residual values provided by BMW.
I compared with Toyota (Highlander, 4Runner), Honda Pilot, Acura MDX, Lexus 330, Nissan Murano and Jeep Cherokee.
About the car:
- Driving experience. If you like a manual shift, it provides an incredible drive. If you don't ... It is time to learn. I test drive the automatic one ... the stick version provides so much power and control.
- Creaking noise. The car is far from an 'hermetic '. It makes more sounds than a pick-up. Definetly an area of improvement for BMW.
- Fuel efficiency. After +300 miles, it seams to be fuel efficient enough for an SUV.
- Interior Space. Great.
Hope this helps.