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Hybrids in the News

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Comments

  • jonnycat26jonnycat26 Member Posts: 101
    You really can't beat a Toyota for reliability!

    You are aware that Toyota has recalled nearly 4 million vehicles in the US this year, making it by far their worst year ever. They've been on a long downhill slide for the last 4 years now.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Actually, it's only 2 million vehicles recalled this year.

    Regardless, Toyota is still by far the most reliable car company.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It is exciting that there is new efforts other than the dead end hydrogen black hole. Both the Honda and BMW innovations tied to the ICE seem much more practical and usable. GM seems so bogged down with hydrogen research. Ford reminds me of a man in a lake flailing his arms while drowning. DC & VW have some interesting diesel technologies about to surface. Fun to watch the industry.
  • falcononefalconone Member Posts: 1,726
    My experience has been the opposite. Family has owned them for years. All red dots in CR. Recalls are NOT indicative of a car's reliability. All manufacturers have recalls. It's just part of life. I am not put off by that at all. I do get pissed when there is a situation where a manufacturer refuses to admit that there is a problem. Had that with my Jeep Liberty. Ball joint issues, airbag issues, and a few others. Toyota is supreme in my book. I also would consider a Hyundai and a Honda. BTW.. I currently drive a Mercedes. Not the least bit impressed with the reliability.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    With all that is going around, I certainly would not discourage exploring hydrogen/fuel cell possibilities either. As is being seen, fuel cells might actually start replacing conventional batteries in something as common as a cell phone. So, any research helps.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Recalls are NOT indicative of a car's reliability.
    I agree. Recall is something that is a recognized issue that could stem from a variety of reasons. Reliability on the other hand, is things NOT falling apart especially once the warranty is over.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&ne- wsId=20051215005284&newsLang=en

    2006 Car of the Year - Honda Civic - A fun-to-drive car combining safety (a Best Pick by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety), fuel economy (40 mpg/hwy standard, and much better for the hybrid version), performance (up to 197 horses in the Si model), space, refinement and reliability into a single, affordable package. Simply put -- the perfect car for our times.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I don't know, my sister swears by Toyota and always gets them yet she seems to be taking hers for non-routine mantianece on a routine basis.

    On the other had I put over 500k on three dodges, almost 200k on a chevy and over 200k total on two hyundais and only had one occasion where a non routine repair was ever done. Yet my sister still brags about how much more reliable her Toyotas are.

    FWIW the only car I ever had any problems with was my 81 Mustang and that was after someone made a left turn in front of me, up until then it was trouble free.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • jonnycat26jonnycat26 Member Posts: 101

    My experience has been the opposite. Family has owned them for years. All red dots in CR. Recalls are NOT indicative of a car's reliability.


    My 2004 Prius has the typical recalls. It's also exhibited the dying on the road twice problem. So is what you're saying that since the fact that the dying car was covered by a recall, it's not indicitive of it's reliability? The sagging headliner, squeaks and rattles and whatnot are typical?

    Interesting. :)
  • falcononefalconone Member Posts: 1,726
    Guess that you have bad luck Jcat. According to CR the owner satisfaction rating is 94% and it has HIGH reliability. I guess you got a lemon. Instead of complaining, get rid of it. That's what I do when I have a car that gives me problems. Statistically you're better with a Toyota. I do not own a Prius, but know many who do. They love their cars. Get rid of your Prius and trade it for some American iron.
  • dadcatdadcat Member Posts: 29
    The following link is to an article on the hybrids currently available and expected future availability.
    http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4023397&src=LP%20Hybrid
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    What is the point of your vendetta against VW in topics that are not discussing VW?
    In his defense, he wasn't the one who brought up VW in the first place. Check out post #4123.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Prius - 94% owner satisfaction.

    Number 2 (approaching number 1) car company in the world.

    Most profitable car company in the world.

    $30 to $40 billion dollars cash in the bank.

    'Yota's not too shabby.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Member Posts: 1,046
    "Sure, Toyota sells big trucks, but they HAVE TO in order to compete with the Big Three. "

    Geez, talk about a bunch of biased rationalization.

    WHY does Toyota HAVE to make big trucks to compete? Does Honda? Subaru? Hyundai? BMW? ...

    Get real. Toyota runs ads to make gullible people believe that buying a Toyota is the responsible thing to do and you and others have bought into it. Toyota makes BIG SUVs and trucks and nobody on the left or in the green suits says squat about it. It's always GM and Ford that get trashed.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    quote heylumpofcoal-"WHY does Toyota HAVE to make big trucks to compete? Does Honda? Subaru? Hyundai? BMW?"-end quote

    Are any of those companies in competition to become the largest car company? Nope.

    If you want to grow your company, you go where the market is. The SUV Era is winding down (we hope) but from 1995-2004, SUVs were king, thus the companies who sold more of them made the most money.

    http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_50/b3963412.htm?chan=tc
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    http://www.aiada.org/article.asp?id=37798

    "Their company philosophy seems to be truly green," Carlson said. "A company is green when greenness gets into the fabric of an entire company. It's not 'green-washing.' That's appearing green but not really being green." She said there is no perfect green company, but Toyota seems to be better at its environmental processes than other carmakers.

    "I think Toyota, as an example, has had the leanest manufacturing," said Joseph Blackburn, a professor of management at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tenn. "They basically invented this system. They're setting the standards for a lot of these companies." Toyota's manufacturing process tries to incorporate energy-efficient lights and motors to run shorter conveyors, which allow for a smaller plant. That means more efficient heating and cooling."
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    http://www.toyota.com/about/environment/

    At Toyota, we operate under a global earth charter that promotes environmental responsibility throughout our entire company. We are leading the way in lowering emissions and improving fuel economy in gasoline powered vehicles. Not only did we create the world's first mass-produced gas/electric hybrid car, but we are also at the forefront of developing tomorrow's fuel cell vehicles.

    But our commitment to preserving the environment doesn't stop with our vehicles. For instance, two of our manufacturing plants have been designated as zero landfill producing operations. And our "green" complex in California has one of the largest commercial solar panel systems in North America and conserves more than 11 Million gallons of drinking water annually through special pipelines that supply recycled water for cooling and landscaping.

    In addition, as part of our dedication to environmental preservation, we have developed strong partnerships with organizations like The National Arbor Day Foundation and The National Environmental Education & Training Foundation.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    http://www.socialfunds.com/news/article.cgi/article349.html

    In recognition of Toyota's environmental leadership, the United Nations Environmental Programme (UNEP) awarded the company their Global 500 Award last year, the first such award received by an automaker. Toyota's "Green Supplier Guidelines" initiative to boost the environmental performance of suppliers stands to confirm the company's commitment to the Earth.
  • mistermemisterme Member Posts: 407
    Personally I don't care what vehicles make a MFG's lineup, except what is in my particular market.

    Brand X may have a line of Yukon-size trucks @ 9MPG, Dirty F-350 type diesel pickups....and a third lineup of a popular, reliable, 5 passenger car that gets superior MPG at a reasonable price. If that 5 passenger car is just what I'm looking for then so what about the other vehicles.

    My '04 HCH fit,trim & materials are not as good as all the prior American new vehicles I've owned. Despite that fact, hands down is the most fun car to drive, even after 23 months of ownership and 55K miles.
    All my previous vehiles by this time had become old hum-drum "Just get there" boring cars by this time.
    If this was just one of it's non-hybrid sisters surely I'd be bored to tears by now- and only get low 20's MPG. (If even that)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Toyota just moving the pollution to China & third World countries.

    And while Toyota may be a leader in cutting emissions from production, it still has plenty of room for improvement. In fact, even as Toyota's CO2 emissions have fallen in Japan, they've climbed worldwide as Toyota makes more cars. Last year it emitted 6.4 million tons of CO2 equivalent, up from 5.9 million tons in 2001. And Masuda acknowledges that plants in developing markets will continue to spit out more pollutants than those in Japan, Europe, or the U.S.

    http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_50/b3963412.htm?chan=tc

    Toyota not in the top ten greenest companies. Ford & Volvo made the list along with British Petroleum. Are they even in the top 100?

    http://www.climateneutral.com/downloads/gbl0601.pdf
  • falcononefalconone Member Posts: 1,726
    Larsb... You certainly have this uncanny ability to find interesting stories such as this. Amazing that Toyota is so far ahead of all the manufacturers in respect to the way they treat the environment. They truly are deserving of an award.
  • falcononefalconone Member Posts: 1,726
    http://www.yellowcabsa.com/press_releases.html

    Nice story. Maybe they'll do the same for the Camry hybrid when it becomes available.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    F1,
    I've noticed (and so does the HOST) that you've sure been shaking things up lately on this hybrid forum. Good to see you're still hard at work. But you had better take it easy.
    ;)
    TagMan
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Let's keep to the hybrid news items here and try to avoid falling in the "personal dispute" stuff.

    Thanks
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Are any of those companies in competition to become the largest car company? Nope.

    Is that a good thing? Looks to me like the largest is not always the best. Standing on top of a mountain you are a real easy target.

    Just for the sake of argument. Say that Toyota is very successful with their big trucks. Say they build a hybrid truck and it is met with the same "too much money" that the hybrid SUVs are suffering under. They become the largest auto maker in the world and the emphasis is on selling high dollar trucks and SUVs. Will you still praise them as some kind of green gods? Whether you accept that or not, it is their goal. They could care less if they sell one hybrid. Why do you think they are priming the public with stories of hybrid parts shortages?
  • haefrhaefr Member Posts: 600
    "...WHY does Toyota HAVE to make big trucks to compete? Does Honda? Subaru? Hyundai? BMW? ..."

    Hyundai builds VERY big earth excavation trucks, sea going ships, railroad locomotives, bridges, shopping centers, stadiums, and industrial parks. The company doesn't have to putz building pickups with bubba-gunracks mounted across their rear windows...
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Whoa. Toyota announced last year that it had a ten-year plan to offer a full line of hybrid vehicles. You can count on it. Toyota just recently announced that cheaper hybrids will come soon, possibly by the '08 model year. Expect the technology to only improve and become more affordable. It's here to stay. Other technologies are on the horizon, but who has made a committment to them to even come close to Toyota's committment to the hybrid? This is an exciting time in the history of autos, particularly the engines, as we go through major technological transitions towards cleaner, more efficient means to power our cars. Yes, there will be bumps in the road, but FINALLY things are on a good track.

    TagMan
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Toyota announced last year that it had a ten-year plan to offer a full line of hybrid vehicles.

    Ford is saying the same thing. Then in the next breath they say that Toyota is squeezing them out of the hybrid business by limiting hybrid components. About that time Toyota says they are falling short on components for their own hybrid plans.

    Will they be able to live up to the Bold forecasts they are making?
  • katzjamrkatzjamr Member Posts: 146
  • katzjamrkatzjamr Member Posts: 146
    Toyota spent almost a billion on R and D for the hybrids, they own nine hundred patents on the systems and you say 'they could care less if they sell one hybrid'. With that kind of double speak you should work for the government.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    All I am getting at is if they have the option to sell someone a Tundra or a Prius, it would be the Tundra. I think it has been said many times. Toyota got their moneys worth out of the publicity surrounding the Prius. It gave them a green glow that no amount of gas guzzling vehicles can take away. Sounds like it convinced you of their "green intentions".

    Another point. When Ford realized they had a hit with the new Mustang they kicked up production to meet demand. If Toyota wanted to meet demand on the Prius, I believe they could have done the same. They just make excuses for the shortage of cars. It gets people onto the car lot where a salesman tells them they are better off with a Camry or Corolla. It has happened to me twice in different states. I believe they are not interested in selling anymore hybrids than is needed to look green. If you remember Japan picked up a lot of the hybrid R&D.
  • falcononefalconone Member Posts: 1,726
    Absolutely agree on that one. You can only push your suppliers so far. Hybrids are unique in that their parts are only sourced to a few manufacturers. If there is say a unprecedented demand for the new Impala all GM has to do is put on additional shifts. I am quite impressed with Toyota's ability to bring so many different hybrids to market in such a short time span. Within three months you will see the Camry, and not too far after that the new luxury Lexus. Anyone who thinks that Toyota is holding back needs their head examined. It is a NO brainer.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Toyota spent almost a billion on R and D for the hybrids, they own nine hundred patents on the systems

    Are you sure of that? Or did Toyota steal the heart of the hybrid system from Solomon Technologies? I guess the court will have to decide. Should be an interesting case. As always I cheer for the little guy.

    In the lawsuit, Solomon is asking for an injunction barring further infringement as well as damages for the unauthorized use of its patent by Toyota.

    Although the thought of a small company suing a large company like Toyota is daunting, Solomon executives said they would use every means to protect the patent rights


    http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2005/09/12/daily21.html
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Looks like Toyota was busy stealing ideas all over the globe for their hybrid systems. Sounds like Toyota of the 1960s when they copied GM engines nut for nut.

    Düsseldorf, Germany - Antonov, an automotive technology company based in Manchester, England, has filed a lawsuit against one of the world's largest automakers for alleged hybrid-drive copyright infringement.

    The papers allege that the driveline of Toyota's Prius and the Lexus RX400h infringes its patents. Hearings will begin in the patent court in Düsseldorf on September 22.Antonov CEO John Moore said: "We would have preferred to reach a settlement with Toyota without going to court but I'm confident in our case."

    The company sought advice from legal and automotive industry experts and took action in Germany because the German legal system provides a relatively quick and cost-effective route to a legally binding decision.

    It expects the Düsseldorf court to reach a conclusion within a year of the first hearing.


    http://www.motoring.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=1836&fArticleId=2883534
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Toyota is far into the hybrid business and is not about to stop due to any legal wrangling . . . any actual settlement or ruling would not stop Toyota from building the hybrids, but would be a financial settlement to satisfy the infringement damages, if any. Toyota is FAST moving towards their goal with YEARS into the Prius already, the Highlander (which will undergo a total remake within a year or two, and become a larger vehicle), the Camry, the Lexus, and soon-to-be others as well. This is no idle promise. It's here and now with more coming very soon. As I said, technical advancements and production efficencies will REDUCE the hybrid costs considerably within just a couple of more years. ANY suggestion that all of Toyota's huge progress is somehow just going to go up in smoke is absurd, and not spoken by anyone who knows what they are talking about. The marketplace itself will dictate the ultimate outcome. Toyota clearly has the edge so far, but do not expect them to be the only players.

    One interesting side note: There is a company that has developed an engine and fuel delivery system that works completely inside the VEHICLE itself. Essentially the car makes its own fuel!!!!!! Hydrogen based system, that produces it's own fuel and has no emissions. It has a metal oxide residue that must be disposed of at periodic intervals.

    The point is that Toyota is a leader in hybrid technology today and for the forseeable future, but technology can change everything again.
  • falcononefalconone Member Posts: 1,726
    Anyone remember the lawsuit where VW was compelled to buy ONE BILLION dollars worth of parts from GM. That was the actual settlement. Maybe that's why VW cars are so prone to being :lemon: s. LOL!!

    With respect to Toyota, the lawsuit from Solomon was a last ditch effort on their part to get funds for continuing operations. In the end, Toyota will probably end up buying Solomon which is probably what they wanted to begin with. It will be cheaper in the long run for Toyota to do this. Toyota meanwhile will continue to dominate the auto industry with their superior products. Gotta love it!!!
  • heyjewelheyjewel Member Posts: 1,046
    quote heylumpofcoal-"WHY does Toyota HAVE to make big trucks to compete? Does Honda? Subaru? Hyundai? BMW?"-end quote

    quote lars**tbird "Are any of those companies in competition to become the largest car company? Nope."

    Duh, really? So Toyota has made the decision to become the largest car company in the world. Check. And to accomplish this, you contend, they HAVE to build huge barges like the land cruiser, lx 47990, sequoia, tundra, BIG trucks, BIG DIRTY V8s etc etc. AND they are building a plant in Texas so they can build MORE BIGGER barges like the above, even though you contend that "The SUV Era is winding down (we hope)". And yet you're only too eager to give them a pass on that because, I guess, they also make the stallus - oops I mean prius. You're a Kool-Aid drinker, face it.

    BTW, if you're right that SUVs will soon be dinosaurs, then Toyota has made a terrible business decision to build a plant geared to making more of, has it not? Might they have been better off to build a plant to more nobrakus hybrids?

    And PS, can you tell me who this 'we' is in your "(we hope)" interjection above? Count me out. I have 3 SUVs and love em all. One gets 25mpg hiway. They are all far more practical that a sedan.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Member Posts: 1,046
    "the United Nations Environmental Programme (UNEP) awarded the company their Global 500 Award last ..."

    Oh, well, if they have the ultra-clean and honest United Nations award then .... ah, they probably bribed Kofi Annan or his son.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Once again people have fallen into the trap of making this a personal dispute and I've had to remove a series of posts.

    Let's leave the escalating personal shots out of things and stick to the topic of the discussions please.

    If you find that you can't respond to a post without taking a dig at the other user, then I suggest you ignore them and move on.

    Time to stop the name calling and insults.
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    Frankly, both cases sound like "submarine patent" rip-offs. Neither Soloman nor Antonov looks like any company remotely has the engineering capital to bring hybrids as we know them to fruition. "Electric wheel" patent?? Are they sure there wasn't prior art by Dr. Ferdinand Porsche when he worked on hybrid drive for tanks in the 1930's amd 40's?? SOLM is a company that started trading in Feb of 2004; sounds like a patent litigation company bent on cashing in on the success of hybrids.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    sounds like a patent litigation company bent on cashing in on the success of hybrids.

    That may well be. There are a lot of inventors out there that get patents and wait for a company to infringe. I guess the courts will decide. Toyota is not new to using other companies ideas and designs. How many years did they use their poorly copied Chevy 6 cylinder in their best selling Land Cruiser?
  • falcononefalconone Member Posts: 1,726
    If you look at the current VW Passat and Jetta you'd swear you were looking at a Corolla. If you look at the front end of a Fusion you'd swear you were looking at the Gillette Mach 3 razor. Now we have the unique and brilliant design of the Toyota HSD. I wonder who is going to copy that?????
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    http://news.newstimeslive.com/story.php?id=77789&category=Local

    Building a better battery
    Electro Energy wants to power hybrid cars for 25 miles without gas
    By Mark Langlois

    THE NEWS-TIMES
    The News-Times/David W. Harple
    DANBURY — A Danbury firm is developing a battery designed to power a hybrid car 25 miles without using any gasoline.

    Electro Energy of Shelter Rock Road bought a Toyota Prius three months ago and began tinkering with the battery. The Prius uses a combination of gasoline and electricity to get roughly 45 to 50 mpg.

    Electro Energy builds flat batteries to power motorbikes, motorized bicycles, scooters and specialty batteries used on U.S. Navy ships and U.S. Air Force aircraft. The company's patented flat technology creates batteries that produce more power in less space.

    Experimenting with the Prius, Electro Energy first made a battery with the same power as the one that comes with the car. The Electro Energy battery is smaller and lighter.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    epa hydro hybrid

    This makes sense. Hope to see it on production vehicles.
  • falcononefalconone Member Posts: 1,726
    Wonderful on paper. Let's see it come to fruition. By the time that happens we'll be driving around like the Jetsons!! LOL!!!
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    By the time that happens we'll be driving around like the Jetsons!! LOL!!!

    Jetsons is circa 1962 You are really dating yourself! LOL!!!

    hydro drive PDF from epa
  • falcononefalconone Member Posts: 1,726
    Jetson takes place in the future... somewhere in 2320. That is when the EPA will finally release their prototype. You know how the government is.. the speed of a turtle!! Maybe they'll release it when they have realistic gas mileage measurements!! I am SO angry that my Liberty was off 30% from the EPA.
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    That certainly was quite correct. IIRC, Toyota license-produced them from GM. Toyota and Nissan used to be under-studies of GM and Ford respectively . . . amazing how things change over a period of time (or not so long in this case, well within a person's life time).
This discussion has been closed.