Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

andre1969 · September 2009

It appears to be a nice daily driver but it's not like it's a Cale Yarborough or Dan Gurney Mercury Cyclone!

About the biggest name I can drop in relation to the Montego is Charles Bronson. He drove one in "The Mechanic". I think that was the chunkier, body-on-frame 1972 style, though.

I think that '71 still has the infamous "drop in" gas tank, where the top part of the tank doubles as your trunk floor and can breach at the slightest impact. Those always scared me.

gsemike · September 2009

Everybody noticed that the steering wheel is helld together with electrical tape, right?

tjc78 · September 2009

THE INTIRIOR IS PERFECT IS VERY CLEAN

Uh... what about the ripped seat bottom, the detached armrest, and the electrical tape holding the steering wheel together.

andre1969 · September 2009

I'd say that thing is a $500 car at best. I say that simply because I've bought cars that look nicer than that thing for about that price.

Besides all the issues wrong with it, it also doesn't have a/c. Although if it did, I have a feeling it wouldn't work.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2009

well it's a clean ripped seat and the tape is brand new!

tjc78 · September 2009

I'd say that thing is a $500 car at best.

Couldn't agree more. IIRC I paid $800 for my 79 Continental in 1999 and the interior was in much better shape than that. The exterior probably about the same and the A/C actually only needed a charge!

fintail · September 2009

Back in the early 90s my dad paid $600 for a low mileage 68 Fairlane sedan out of an estate, that was probably 5x nicer than that expensive car. It had no interior damage, perfect dash, no rust, no dents - its only drawback is that it was a lowline car, no options but a V8 and (working) AM radio - it was even white on white.

andre1969 · September 2009

but I kinda like this 1976 Grand Prix.

Way cool that it has the 455 and a sunroof. And those aftermarket rims don't even bother me. I guess it would be a bit of a challenge finding a decent replacement dash in green, though. I think Pontiac only had two greens that year, one being a loud lime green and the other a dark forest green. This one's faded, but it looks like it was more of a sage type of green...unless that's just what the lime fades to?

I always thought the Grand Prix had the coolest armrests back then...the way they run full-length and swoop up towards the front of the door. I thought it was cool that Pontiac went through the effort to differentiate the Grand Prix from the LeMans like that. In contrast, I don't think Olds, Buick, or Chevy bothered with that much effort, although the lower half of the panel was slightly different on cars that had carpeting, versus those that didn't (say, a Malibu versus a Malibu Classic or a LeMans versus a Grand LeMans)

tjc78 · September 2009

My Father had pretty much the exact same car. I couldn't tell you what engine his was or anything else. I only saw the car in pictures. This appears to be pretty loaded up. Is that console supposed to be slanted like that?

fintail · September 2009

Too bad it is so weathered - looks like a very high option car.

Speaking of armrests, The ones on the W112 fintails always stick in my head ...and to show a sign of the times, that's a second to the highest model MB sedan with manual windows and locks.

garv214 · September 2009

Did anyone tell that center console that the car isn't hanging a hard left turn anymore???

colloquor · September 2009

That's the normal orientation.

hpmctorque · September 2009

" the A/C actually only needed a charge!"

Were you able to find the old "freon" (I believe it's called R12) refrigerant for the A/C, or had it been converted to R-34? If you recharged it with R12, how difficult was it to find this?

The reason I'm asking is that one of my cars, an '88 300ZX, still has the original R12. Rather, amazing, in my opinion. I imagine it'll need a recharge before too long, although it's still blowing cold.

jlflemmons · September 2009

Anybody notice all the rust staining on that headliner? I'm sure this was a very nice car at one time, but suspect a closer inspection would show that the termites have ended it's career. That trunk is gone, and I bet the roof is too when the vinyl is pulled back. Also the shots of the door interior show the rust, and even the brake booster. Wow. I had almost forgotten how bad GM was at rust proofing back then. It wasn't until the '78 intermediates came out that they were serious about trying to keep the things in one piece.

Around the same time (a little earlier, like 71-72) Olds had the Cutlass SX, which was a fancy Cutlass with a 455 2bbl and very tall rear axle. The things would cruise at 70 while turning over at a fast idle! Amazing what you can do with a long stroke high displacement engine.

tjc78 · September 2009

Were you able to find the old "freon"

This was back in 99-00 so my mechanic still had a few canisters left. However, R12 is still available on E-bay. Haven't checked prices but I bet its anywhere from 30 to 40 bucks a can. If you are serious about keeping your system R12 I would buy a few cans, the supply will eventually end. One thing I can tell you is that 79 had the absolute coldest A/C I ever felt in my life. Nothing compares today, I never even had to use the high fan setting on the hottest of days.

hpmctorque · September 2009

Thanks. That's seems like good advice.

tjc78 · September 2009

Loose a zero

jlflemmons · September 2009

Hood latch broken?

hpmctorque · September 2009

Even at $7,500, I'm thinking about what practical value this Continental offers. It's impressive, interesting, very comfortable and roomy, but those attributes have to be balanced off against the fact that it's too inefficient to be a daily driver, and it's size makes it impractical to drive and park in the city. The upshot is that, for limited use (Sunday drives, displaying at car shows), it could be fun-to-own conversation piece. I would personally take a pass on it, even for say, 10% of the $75,000 asking price, and just enjoy looking at one at a car show.

My conclusion is that to enjoy a '60s or '70s Detroit mastodon, you have to suppress practical considerations. I once owned a '72 Olds 98 4-door Brougham. There were times when it's attributes were gratifying, but the smaller (FWD) '85 Olds 98 Regency Broguham I owned later was a better car in most respects, and easier to live with. I even found the '85 to be more comfortable on long dirves than the '72.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2009

Here's a perfect example of "it's rare, but who cares?"

Aside from the garish styling, unpalatable color, historical insignificance and completely meaningless options, it's a 4-door American domestic car with zero potential for appreciation. How different from an early 60s Conti convertible done black on black. Night and day, so to speak, in terms of value and collectibility.

I think $7500 -- $8000 is about all the money here. There may be odd auction results, but I think if you ran the same car ten times on eBay, that's about what the high bid would average out to. Market value is not set on one sale.

andre1969 · September 2009

What color was your '72 Olds? I think with a lot of these mastodons, especially in the 1970's, the color can make or break a car. Although I think I'd be more tolerant of a '72 98 in a garish color, because I find them fairly attractive to begin with. And if it was a '72 Electra, I'd probably drool over it no matter how bad the color!

I could probably tolerate something the size of that Lincoln, or a '72 98, but then I live out in the suburbs and work in the suburbs, and it's rare that I have to squeeze into a tight parking space. But in my case, that Lincoln just doesn't excite me. Even if it was a drop-dead gorgeous shade of blue or green, the car itself just doesn't move me.

Way back in 1990, I found a 1975 or '76 LeSabre 4-door sedan for sale at a used car dealer. I had just gotten my '69 Dart GT repainted, and kinda wanted a cheap beater so I didn't have to drive the Dart all the time. Only problem was, they wanted more for that LeSabre than what I paid for the Dart! For as big as that car was, I didn't think it seemed all that ponderous to drive. I looked up the specs once, and I think it was something like 226.7" long! I'm sure I'd hate it if I had to take it into DC on a regular basis, though, or do anything else that required tight maneuvering. But in my current situation, I could probably have the reverse gear go out on the car, and still be able to get by! The yard's big enough to turn around in, and the places I go usually have enough parking where I can usually pull all the way through.

toomanyfumes · September 2009

When I was a teenager in the 80's my Grandpa had a '73 Olds Regency 98.(Dark brown with tan interior.) When he came to our house he would pull up the driveway, and I would have to go out and turn the car around because it was too big for him to manuever in our turnaround area.

ghulet · September 2009

.....I think the 'Anniversary' package, or whatever, MIGHT make it worth 10% more than your average (largely unloved) '72 Continental, if anyone cared. Then, subtract about 25% for the color, perhaps mitigated by the very low mileage. On a great day, to the right buyer, maybe $10k.

My '71 Electra was kind of a fun car in a way (I was 16, pretty much all cars were fun), at least in a straight line. Otherwise, not so much, though parking wasn't an issue. It just didn't occur to me that my minimum wage job (12 miles from home) pretty much only covered the gas. BTW, it was Twilight Turquoise Poly, black vinyl interior, 'standard' (non-Limited) four-door hardtop:

http://www.tcpglobal.com/aclchip.aspx?image=1971-buick-pg01.jpg

hpmctorque · September 2009

My '72 98 was a yellow 4-door hardtop with a cream vinyl roof, and matching light colored cloth interior. As you know, that combination was quite common in that time period. The latest issue of Collectible Automobile has an article featuring the car I had, except that the one in the magazine is a bronze Regency.

I think I was incorrect in my earlier message, in that I don't think that my '72 was a Brougham, but just a 98 or 98 Luxury Sedan (or whatever they called that model back then). As the article in Collectible Automobile notes, '72 was the first year for the Regency, and Olds made only a limited number of those.

My '85 98 had the Brougham designation, however.

toomanyfumes · September 2009

While we're on the subject of one two many digits in the price...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1964-AMC-AMBASSADOR-RAMBLER-990_W0QQitemZ28040064- 1280QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item41492e3d00&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

Mr_Shiftright · September 2009

I see it's the very rare 4-door "coupe" model.

On a good day, $3000 would be plenty. Were it Pebble Beach quality, maybe $5500.

Nice---he wants 8X times book value and has 4 photos and two lines of text.

Yeah sure.

oregonboy · September 2009

I particularly like the substantial "prang" in the L. rear bumper and the car-dealer emblem residing nearby. :P

lemko · September 2009

I never cared for the early 1970s Lincolns. They appear to be trashed-up versions of the rather clean 1961-1965 generation. The same lines are there, but they're hardly as clean. They even abandoned the cool "suicide doors" in 1970. I prefer the later 1975-79 Lincolns.

fintail · September 2009

At least he's not claiming it's AMG anymore....can you say "blown head gasket"?

This seller admits it...perfect for those into self-torture

gsemike · September 2009

The always looked to me like they were just LTDs with hideaway headlights

lemko · September 2009

Of course there are those '70s colors that absolutely obliterate any interest in a car such as that abominable color that 1974 Cadillac Sedan DeVille with only 22K on it. That color reminds me of the carrots in a cheap TV dinner. I bet the car only had 22K on it because the original owner was too embarrassed by his poor choice of colors - even by '70s standards! :sick:

Mr_Shiftright · September 2009

Hey, it's only overheating and there's a huge oil leak and the heater controls don't work anymore. I'm sure a quick $5,000 would fix that right up.

tjc78 · September 2009

I prefer the later 1975-79 Lincolns.

Absolutely. I would guess overall the best year would be 78. You could still get the 460 and they had the better front grill and revised dashboard.

andre1969 · September 2009

They even abandoned the cool "suicide doors" in 1970. I prefer the later 1975-79 Lincolns.

Same here. I actually prefer the '75-76 Lincolns, which had a wider, more impressive grille, to the '77-79, where the grille was just a bit too narrow, tall, neoclassic, and pretentious. Although I think it works beautifully on the Mark V, but I just don't care for it as much on the regular Continental sedans and coupes. I think the '74 Lincoln is fairly attractive too, although the front looks a bit too Mercury-ish, which might hurt its prestige a bit.

I find myself tending to like the later models of many of those big mastodons. I think it's partly because the interiors became much more posh and luxurious in later years, as those nylon/rayon/brocade-type cloths gave way to much richer velours and felts.

qbrozen · September 2009

OK... not really a project car, but I figured I'd get better feedback here.

What do you think of an '01 Saturn L200 5-spd with 111k miles as a cheap commuter car? Looks nice enough in the pics. Leather, moonroof, etc. White on tan. I think I could get it for $2500.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2009

Sounds good all the way around. It has the typical GM bugaboos, such as MAF sensor failure, warping front brake rotors, and squirrely wiper alignment, and failure of the Body Control Module, but you know, those things are infrequent and don't affect all cars. Basically sound little car with GM demons now and then. Price seems right.

andre1969 · September 2009

The latest issue of Collectible Automobile has an article featuring the car I had, except that the one in the magazine is a bronze Regency.

I'm looking at that article right now. Wow, that's a gorgeous car...even in that gold color! Funny how it's the same basic color scheme as that Lincoln posted earlier, but I think the Olds just looks soooo much more tasteful. I think one thing that helps is that the color looks to be more of a true gold, where that Lincoln looks like it got a little radioactive mustard mixed in with the gold.

Also, I never knew that Olds "invented" that plush sofa/loose pillow look with the little buttons. I'm sure that's not exactly a trend most people would celebrate, but on that car I think it looks really nice. I bet that Regency was a really nice, comfy car.

Another thing I tended to not like about Lincolns back then was the dashboard, the way it was just too big and blocky, and hung too low, as if it would come too close to your shins. In contrast Olds seemed like they were going for a bit of a driver's car, with the dash that had a bit of a cockpit,driver-oriented style to it.

Kind of interesting that Motortrend preferred the 98 in that old test that Collectible Automobile mentions. I always thought of the Buick Electra as a bit sportier, but I guess Olds knew what they were doing back then! I'm impressed that they also got the thing to do 0-60 in 8.7 seconds! I recall an old Consumer Reports that tested a 1975 or 76 Electra, and it was a more doggy ~12 seconds. Still a 455,but I guess that's what emissions controls will do to you. Plus, by then I'm sure they were using much taller axle ratios, which hurt acceleration. And Buick's 455 was down to something like 200 hp by then, whereas that '72 Olds had 250 hp.

qbrozen · September 2009

that's pretty much my thinking. Common stuff seems to crop up, but nothing worrisome. I'm going to the dealer tomorrow to finish up some paperwork on the wife's new car, so I'll see if the Saturn is still there.

Just what is a Body Control Module, anyway?

srs_49 · September 2009

This is from the Freescale (formerly Motorola Semiconductors) web site - a company that makes a lot of the microcontrollers that go into things like BCMs, ECUs, and the like:

The central body control module is the primary hub that maintains functions, such as internal and external lighting, security and access control, and comfort features for doors, seats and other convenience controls. The gateway serves as the information bridge between various in-car communication networks, including Ethernet, FlexRay, CAN, LIN and Media Oriented Systems Transfer (MOST®). It also serves as a central diagnostic interface to the car. The gateway functionality might be integrated into the body control module or may be a separate ECU.

qbrozen · September 2009

Oh.... a fancy fuse box. Great. ;b

srs_49 · September 2009

Fuse box with software - the worst of both worlds :P .

lemmer · September 2009

Are you guys familiar with the deposed dictator of HealthSouth, Richard Scrushy? Well, they've sold off his car collection. Most of them could not be started as they have sat unused for a couple years while he has been in prison.

article about the cars.

The cars:

2002 Bentley Azure - 2,774 miles
1994 BMW 850 CSI - 6,954 miles
1999 BMW 750 IH - 25,635 miles
1929 Cadillac Phaeton - 3,404 miles
2006 Mini Cooper - 1,109 miles
2000 GMC Denali - 43,396 miles
1955 Mercury Monterrey
1997 Porsche 911 Turbo
2000 Rolls-Royce Corniche - 2,225 miles
1997 GMC Suburban - 70,367 miles
1993 GMC Suburban - 66,681 miles
2001 Porsche 911
1947 Nash Super Sedan - 57,994 miles
1997 Jaguar Vandenplas - 15,624 miles
1966 Pontiac GTO - 70,901 miles
1979 Mercedes 300D - 14,677 miles
2002 Cadillac Escalade - 48,541 miles
1987 Mercedes 560 SL - 28,000 miles
1995 AMG Hummer - 32,956 miles

The results:

1929 Cadillac Phaeton  $170,000
2002 Bentley Azure  $140,000
2000 Rolls Royce Corniche  $115,000
1997 Porsche 911  $87,500
2001 Porsche 996  $55,000
1966 Pontiac GTO  $42,500
1994 BMW 850 CSI  $40,000
1995 AMG General Hummer  $29,000
1987 Mercedes 560 SL  $27,000
2006 Mini Cooper Convertible  $26,000
2002 Cadillac Escalade  $24,000
1995 Mercury Monterey  $22,250
2000 BMW 7-series  $21,000
1997 Jaguar XJ6  $17,000
2000 GMC Yukon Denali  $15,000
1947 Nash Super Sedan  $14,000
1997 Chevrolet Suburban  $7,000
1978 Mercedes 300D  $5,500
1993 Chevrolet Suburban  $4,250

texases · September 2009

$40,000 for a '94 850i? That sounds high!

The rest don't seem too crazy, I got no idea on hte Bentley and the Corniche.

michaellno · September 2009

q - we've got 2 L-series in the family.

Of course, there is my '03 L300 with automatic - not a real comparison, since it's got a V6 vs. the 2.2L 4-cyl. In 88K miles, here's what I've done:

Replaced the BCM twice in my car
Front rotors twice, rear rotors once
Front calipers
Axle seal
Power steering hose
Replace horn

My step-son bought either an '01 or '02 L200 with 5-speed several years ago. It had over 100K when he bought it ... now, it's probably got over 150K on it.

We had to replace the clutch not long after purchase - that was almost $1000, given the labor involved. Since then, it's run reasonably well. I know he replaced all the struts (another grand) and the A/C doesn't work (probably needs a recharge), but it runs pretty well.

In fact, his wife has a '97 Camry and they tell me that the Saturn is the "good" car.

qbrozen · September 2009

I don't know what it is but it does seem like the V6 cars have more reported problems. you'd think its just a different engine and new problems would just involve the engine, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I wonder why.

I'm at the credit union now (edmunds on a palm pilot is a chore but i'm early for my appt and bored) and will be heading to the dealer after this, so we'll see.

normally I wouldn't give the saturn a second look, but I'm wanting to trade the volvo in at a reputable dealer to get top dollar without trying to private sell, and miled up commuter cars are a rare commodity at reputable dealers.

jlflemmons · September 2009

One of the stupidest software mistakes GM made with the BCM in the '99-about '03 trucks is in the guage software. The fuel tank sending unit is "unbuffered" coming from the tank, meaning the sending unit signal is all over the place with fuel sloshing. But the software only averages the reading when the transmission is in drive. So, you start your car in the morning with a half tank of gas, back out into the street, hit the brake, slosh the fuel, and the guage goes to empty and the low fuel light/alarm goes off. Put the car in drive, move forward a bit and shift to neutral, tap the brakes, slosh the fuel back forward and the gauge will swing all over the place. When it is about the right place, shift back to drive and the software will begin averaging again. If you just ignore the fuel gauge for about five miles or so, it will eventually move to a somewhat more accurate reading.

Now, I don't have a problem with using software to avoid the cost of a baffle in the fuel tank, but how hard would it have been to correct the code to average the reading WHENEVER THE ENGINE IS RUNNING! This has been a common complaint in service departments, and GM didn't fix the problem in production until sometime late in '03. It is corrected in my wife's '04 Yukon, but not in my '02 Blazer. The problem was common to SUV's (big and little) and pickup trucks, both GMC and Chevy.

EDIT: The other problem is if you fill your tank all the way up and start the car, the fuel gauge will slam over the full mark so hard it can hang. That's because the sending unit is at it's maximum travel and in park the software doesn't buffer the signal. Sort of like sticking a volt meter in a socket when on the wrong range setting. BOING! :mad:

fintail · September 2009

Some of those prices seem insanely high, even if the cars are pristine with no mileage. Is that for real? Not only the the 40K 850, but the 21K 10 year old 7er, the 17K 13 year old Jag, the 24K 8 year old Escalade, and a few others seem really high.

Nice to see one of the endless minions of corporate crooks losing his undeserved toys, anyway.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2009

They all seem about 20% too high...perhaps these prices include the auction commissions----they usually do. On some of the cars, low miles is definitely an asset, since some of them do not behave well with high miles--presuming they could even reach high miles.

tjc78 · September 2009

If you just ignore the fuel gauge for about five miles or so, it will eventually move to a somewhat more accurate reading.

Funny, I have noticed on my 99 S-10 the fuel gauge is a bit wacky. Now I know why.

fintail · September 2009

Maybe with commission and tax (if there is any). I surely wouldn't pay those prices for the used luxobarges anyway. That has to be a record for an 8 series.

For the Rolls and Bentley, maybe those are closer.

Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles

Your Privacy