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Run-flat, self-sealing, PAX tires for Minivans

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Comments

  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Technically it is very possible; however, most dealers will absolutely refuse to do it at their expense, especially post-sale.

    If you decide to de-PAX yourself, you have lots of options that range from new Honda wheels and GFT rubber through a complete aftermarket set.

    Keep us posted on how you make out.

    Best regards,
    Shipo
  • vinnynyvinnyny Member Posts: 764
    You could have gotten your Ody without PAX at time of sale, but you're probably out of luck now. You should take time to read through this discussion to learn the pros and cons of PAX. For most of us, it seems that lack of disclosure at time of sale was the biggest concern. Here's a quick and oversimplified summary of PAX concerns:
    1) The tires don't last as long as regular tires (35k miles max);
    2) They cost three times as much to replace (it used to be much more than that);
    3) When you need a replacement tire, it may be difficult to find a qualified service center with the right equipment; and
    4) If you can find a PAX service center, the chances that it has the required parts in stock are pretty slim.

    Some complain about dimished ride quality and handling, but I figure that you should have noticed that when you test drove the vehicle.

    When I bought my 2006 Touring, the dealer told me that all Honda dealers would have the special PAX equipment and that the replacement cost differential would be 10-15%. He didn't mention poor tread life and actually praised Michelin for its famous durability. At the time, I lived in Tucson and my wife and kids made many trips up to Phoenix to visit family while I was at work. The safety and security of tires that could be driven--even flat--all the way there offset the increased cost. What they didn't tell us was that if the van got a flat, my wife and kids might make it to Phoenix, but the van would probably be stuck there for days while one of the very few qualified dealers waited for one of the ridiculously over-priced tires to be shipped from the warehouse. At that time, a set of four PAX and the required additional parts would cost about $2400 installed.

    Forget about driving cross-country in early 2006 because it was as much as 500 miles between qualified PAX service centers (and PAX Tourings didn't come with spare tires)!

    When I traded my 2006 Touring for a 2007, I was fully aware of the PAX issues and I had moved to VA where there are more PAX dealers. I traded the 06 with only 35K miles on it because I wasn't willing to pay the $1600 quoted to replace the tires. I could have bought another brand, but we loved the Ody and the PAX-free Touring wasn't available yet. At least this time I knew what I was getting and made a conscious decision to trade off increased cost/less convenience for improved safety.

    Honda owed us all that information up front and they should not have promised a support network that they could not deliver. When the tread life issues surfaced, they should have simply offered free replacements instead of excuses.
  • bill517bill517 Member Posts: 6
    I have depaxed my Ody but I don't have the sensors installed. What sensors did you buy from Honda? Do you think I can use the ones on my old Pax tires?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Most wheels will accept the TPMS sensors that came on your PAX wheels. I have heard a few sporadic reports of sensors not fitting, but like I said before, they'll fit most wheels.

    Best regards,
    Shipo
  • smlycatsmlycat Member Posts: 23
    If you can get them out easily - doubt it. Otherwise you need to purchase new Touring sensors from Honda $35 each +/-. I assume you depaxed with a Honda brand wheel. If not, I'm not sure if the sensors will fit an aftermarket wheel.
  • jeffreyh2jeffreyh2 Member Posts: 50
    vinny,

    I've gotten 45,000 miles on my PAX tires. Twice now.

    Otherwise I agree with your list and commentary.

    Regards, JEff
  • oddy2007oddy2007 Member Posts: 1
    #1369 Jeff,

    Can you share your wisdom on how to get up to 45K on your PAX tires?

    I have been rotating mines every 3K and maintaining them at 39 PSI. Currently at 16K and the my tires are less than 1/8.

    I called dealers in Southern California. They all quoted about $1200 - $1400. Yike! This hurts badly through this economic period. :cry:

    MP
  • chmnjchmnj Member Posts: 5
    It will be tough negotiating, since you're already out of the dealership with the car. I bought a 2005 used Touring in January and dragged the negotiations out after the salesman had no doubt booked the sale, after I did research on PAX. He stuck to the Honda party line, which is that you can find something bad about anything on the Internet and many people swear by their PAX tires, and they haven't had any more complaints about them than they have about other aspects of the car. Eventually, I got them to eat half the cost to de-pax with snow tires. Then I kept the PAX tires and rims, figuring I'd get a season out of them.
  • zac7zac7 Member Posts: 2
    About 3 weeks ago with 22,300 miles, I replaced my PAX tires with new PAX at a Honda dealership. I had previously set up a claim with Michelin when I noticed the tires were wearing out too quickly and they wanted me to check back when the wear was down to 3/32.

    Michelin agreed to pay for half the cost of the tires so it cost me $944 for everything. The Honda dealership wouldn't reduce their charges for mounting balancing etc.

    The Honda dealership can't seem to balance the tires properly as I'm getting a shake in my steering wheel now at 70 mph when I never had any problems before the tire change. My 2006 Odyssey has been back twice since for rebalancing and now I have to take it in again.

    I counted 16 - 1/4 oz weights on my right front wheel, with them spread in two groups almost directly opposite each other.

    Is anyone else finding that the Honda dealers can't seem to balance the PAX tires or are they as the dealer says "hard to balance"? Perhaps I have an out of round tire because if I go above 70 to about 75 or 80 the steering wheel shake fades.
  • jeffreyh2jeffreyh2 Member Posts: 50
    Driving style, maybe? I know that I drive a lot less aggressively now than I did 20-30 years ago. Otherwise, I don't know.

    I rotate my tires every 5,000 miles, each time I change the oil.

    A little over $1,200 is what I've paid for a set of 4.

    Balancing may be important, and tricky to get right. I had developed some vibration at about 65 mph before my last replacement, but afterward the replacement which included a balancing I have no vibration at highway speeds.

    Regards, JEff
  • stuman168stuman168 Member Posts: 27
    We purchased our 2007 touring because I like the idea of run flat. We had no problem
    with the tire and the wear seems okay considering other people been complaining.
    We mostly use it in town with a few long distance trip to CA, WA or BC.
    Last sunday, when we're driving home from our trip, we experience a tire puncture while I was driving 70-75 mph. First I heard a bang like something hit a wheel well.
    I check the MID to see the tire pressure to make sure it's not the tire. Initially, all tire pressure was 34 then within seconds the right rear number start to decrease from 34 to 3 fairly quickly. I slowed the vehicle and find a safe place to stop. It looked like flats but side wall is OK so I decided to drive @ recommended speed 50 mph while my wife tried to make some phone call. initially we called honda care and we're forwarded to michelin which pretty much useless. They told me I can safely drive the car @ 50mph for 125 miles. Unfortunately we're over 130 miles away from home and it's sunday afternoon. They can't help me since all the honda service are closed. I was in dilemma to drive all the way home thinking if they can certified the tire for 125 miles they are probably good for few more miles. I check the tire after driving 15 miles without exceeding 50 mph. the tire was quite warm but not burning hot while the other 3 tire was cool. Since I am driving with 2 toddler, I don't want to push it. So we drove to the honda dealer where we bought the car in metro portland area. We left the car there and we have to get another mean of transportation to get home. SInce the dealer can't sell me a spare tire or sell me a wheel tire combo. the next day I called the dealership and unfortunately their pax machine is down and may take a few days to get it fixed. luckily my local dealer has a working machine and the tire staff is loaning me a paxtire/wheel ( used pax tire/wheel and kinda worn) so I can drive 100 miles to my local dealership.

    I guess from this experience I'll get a spare tire for my car and if I travel to remote area I may consider dePAXing but for driving in town my wife will probably prefer
    the PAX because she can keep on driving without changing tire (in town)
  • mixa1mixa1 Member Posts: 4
    I dePAXed 3 months ago, paid $2000 for the new wheels and tires and now is planning to go to a small claim court. I'm not sure if I shall sue my local Honda dealership where I bought my Odyssey or Honda USA that does not have headquarters in Texas. Any suggestions?
  • skap2skap2 Member Posts: 34
    How many miles did you get on the PAX ? I'm not admitted in TX and never practiced there, however one I thing I do know is several counties in TX are very pro-plaintiff. Whether you can sue Honda USA depends on the jurisidction requirements in your local small claims court. You can definitely sue your local dealer in the county where they're located. Good chance you can sue Honda USA too if they do business in your county, also check to see who their resident agent is in TX for service of process.

    Small claims courts tend to be user friendly, I sugggest calling the clerks office after your review their website.

    One thing to bear in mind, you must opt out of the class action settlement which was just mailed out to Ody owners. Of course risk is that you may lose in sm claims but in my view the settlement is so miniscule for depax owners, doesn't much matter.

    Hope this helps
  • jaretijareti Member Posts: 1
    Not sure if this would be relavent information for sm claims or not. My experience with dePAxing has shown significantly improved handling and reduced stopping distance of the van. I haven't officially tested this, but my seat of the pants tests suspect a significant difference. If this can be proven with official testing somehow it could be an important safety note that may be grounds for a recall. I'm told that each PAX wheel weighs around 75 lbs that's about 35 - 40 lbs heavier than your typical rim and tire and less rotating mass hanging off the axles is likely the reason most drivers notice different handling characteristics when they dePAX.

    There's also issues with how the PAX tire profile doesn't align with the van's suspension properly hence the premature wear on the outer shoulders of the tires. If you mostly drive the van with a couple of kids most of the time (practically empty) you will see very premature tire wear on the outer shoulders (15k in my case). This issue was pointed out to another owner by a mechanic, but i don't remember who or where.

    Every mechanic and tire professional i talk to about this is stunned by this product and how simply awful it is compared to existing tire technology. This whole thing has to be at the top of the list of the worst technology debacles in automotive history.
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    It was another bright idea from Michelin.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelin_TRX

    Krzys
  • mixa1mixa1 Member Posts: 4
    Thanks for your reply. I got 35K on my original PAX tires, but the main reason I decided to dePAX was the ugly experience I got with fixing the flat PAX tire few months prior to that. I had to spend half a day to find a dealership where they had proper equipment and $405 to fix a simple nail in the tire. I was fortunate that it happened on Saturday and near Austin (I live in Houston) - otherwise we would be stuck there for another day.

    I have already studied State Bar of Texas website and read everything they have on the small claims. I have also found that CT Corporate System (apparently the law firm) is the registered agent of American Honda Motor Co in Texas. Their headquarters are in Dallas so it seems to me that if I want to sue them I would have to go to the court in their county. That is why I'm considering filing a suit against my local dealership for failing to inform me about all the limitations of the PAX tires such as higher-than-expected replacement costs, difficulty getting repairs and excessive wear and absence of a spare tire.

    I have already opt out of the settlement. Do you know where I can get Appendix A to support my claims? Any other advice before I talk to the office clerk? Appreciate your help!
  • skap2skap2 Member Posts: 34
    short answer is court wouldn't be interersted in that. I don't think there's any evidence pax are unsafe, the big problem here is that they're unreasonably expensive and impratical to replace. Handling, stopping distance and the like aren't grounds for litigaton since those are product characteristics that all vehicles and tires have (some better than others), not defects or undisclosed limitations like having to go to a Honda dealder to replace them at $300 per.

    Agreed on your observations, identical to my own experience. Every tire person and a few Honda folks all said the same thing, Michelin created a disaster, great in theory but impractical for the real world. Sort of like the Concorde, it was great for those who were willing to pay $5K one way to go Mach 2.
  • skap2skap2 Member Posts: 34
    A few comments:

    1) 35K makes it harder for your case. A judge can be convinced that is low but its not unreasonable, like 15-20K would be.

    2) I would sue whoever charged you $405 to remove a nail !!!! My dealer also lied to me, but in fairness, I got a nail a few weeks after taking delivery and they plugged it. I know there's a lot out there about how pax can't be plugged, but I have mine to prove it.

    3) CT is a corporate agent firm, not a law firm. Just bc they're in Dallas doesn't mean you can't sue them where you bought the car. Not saying you can, I can't evaluate that, but I would ask the clerk to guide you on how to determine whether you can obtain personal jurisdiction in small claims. Don't be afraind to call them more than once.

    On Appendix A, I haven't looked at the materials yet but I will revert ...
  • homersodyssey2homersodyssey2 Member Posts: 1
    Since my van is out of warranty, I wasn't too concerned about swapping out the pax system. I de-paxed my '06 using 17" wheels and tires from TireRack, and the oem tire monitors. I got about 35k out my original pax tires and opted to replace them with the Sport Edition wheels and Continental tires. I didn't bother disassembling the pax wheels, so I bought new tire monitors and the entire spare tire kit from the local dealer. The independent tire installer had to use washers to shim the valves/monitors to the rims, otherwise the valve threads are too short to secure them. Everything looks and works great. While it cost almost as much to de-pax the van as the dealer was charging to put new pax tires on, it'll save a lot of money on the next set of tires. It might even save some money on gas and brakes since the new wheels are a lot lighter than the original system.
  • skap2skap2 Member Posts: 34
    I think Annex A is what they sent us in the mail
  • bill517bill517 Member Posts: 6
    I live in Houston and when I depaxed my tires last July at a Goodyear dealer in Pearland the Honda dealer said the sensors wouldn't work on the Honda rims we bought. After reading so many of the comments from people saying they would work, I cut open the old Pax tires and removed the sensors. The Goodyear dealer put the sensors in with no washers and so far they have worked fine. I am really unhappy with the way Honda has treated me on this. Worse than not helping they kept giving me false information.
  • smlycatsmlycat Member Posts: 23
    Congrats!

    I guess you're going to trash your PAX tires, so reusing the sensors was okay. Most folks, myself included, opted for new touring sensors and sold their PAX tires on ebay.

    Did you get a spare? I bought one in a junk yard for $20 and bought the mounting kit (washer/bolt) from Honda for $12.

    W.
  • bill517bill517 Member Posts: 6
    I bought a new spare from the Goodyear dealer not realizing how expensive they are. I advise all to go to the junk yard.
  • vinnynyvinnyny Member Posts: 764
    The settlement allows a reimbursement of $110 for the spare tire. Was it much more than that?
  • bill517bill517 Member Posts: 6
    The wheel was $60 and the tire was $175.
    I haven't received anything on the settlement, is the settlement a state or US suit?
  • vinnynyvinnyny Member Posts: 764
    The case is being heard on June 23rd in the US District Court in Greenbelt, MD. You can call the attorneys at 866-540-5505 if you have any questions.
  • dandsstanleydandsstanley Member Posts: 2
    I read through a lot of the posts on this forum, and purchased new tires and wheels from Tire Rack. Our local mechanic said he could re-install the sensors on the new wheels, but he tried for a couple hours yesterday and could not get the PAX tires off the wheels. I called another company that specializes in after-market wheels, and they said they worked on run-flat tires and could handle it, and after only 30 minutes today they gave up!
    It looks like my choices are to (1) buy new sensors (the folks this morning quoted us $200 for the set); (2) convince our Honda dealer (O'Neil in Overland Park, KS. if anyone is from Kansas City area-they have been absolutely no help at all so far) to use their machine to remove the tires and sensors so we can take them elsewhere to have them installed on the new wheels); or (3) find someone to cut a hole in the tires and remove the sensors.
    Any ideas? Anyone know of someone locally that can help?
    Thanks.
  • rtruns_hondartruns_honda Member Posts: 6
    Just how did your local mechanic try to get the sensors out of the old wheels? The only way it can be done without the PAX Wheel machine is to cut open the sidewall, your option (3). If you read back a few years you will find posts from others that cut open their PAX tires and remove the sensors. The local Tire Fair shop priced me out at about $900. 00 for new aftermarket wheels and generic tires and they would cut out the old sensors. From the pictures I have seen posted on the web it is a good size opening (6x5) and you will need a good cutting tool for the job but it works!
  • dandsstanleydandsstanley Member Posts: 2
    Thanks. I will try to talk one of the places into doing that.
  • bill517bill517 Member Posts: 6
    I did it myself and it wasn't very hard. I used a hack saw and cut two slices on the side of the tire about 6 inches apart on either side of the valve stem. Then I used a razor knife to cut between the two near the rim and create a little flap that I could pull up. The valve unscrews very easily. I then stuck my hand in the hole and pulled out the sensor. The rubber near the rim is easy to cut with a knife but as you get into the side wall you need a hack saw because of the wire.
  • mixa1mixa1 Member Posts: 4
    3 weeks ago I finally filed a lawsuit in the small claims court against a local Honda dealership for $1700: $400 for fixing a nail in my PAX tire and $1300 for dePaxing and buying a spare. Last Friday I got a certified letter from their lawyer with General Denial. The defendant "generally denies each & every allegation ... and demand strict proof by a preponderance of the evidence". They also demand that my claims "be dismissed with prejudice" and the dealership "be awarded its costs and granted all other and further relief to which it may show itself to be justly entitled".

    I'm planning to fight, but since it is my first serious experience with the judicial system, I have a few questions:
    a. The dealership employed a serious lawyer firm. Should I be better off hiring my own counsel?
    b. Is there any Consumer Advocate Groups that can help me with a lawyer?
    c. In Texas, the maximum claim amount in the Small Claim Court is $10000. Does it mean that whoever wins the case has a right to recover his legal expenses from the loosing side up to the maximum amount?

    Thanks.
  • esk114esk114 Member Posts: 2
    Bought my 2005 Touring 6-months ago (used). Side-walls on the tires looked big but didn't think much about it. For that matter, didn't think much about the purchase. Just returned to the U.S. after living in the U.K. for many years. Always knew Hondas were good (had 2 previously), thus, couldn't go wrong with the Touring van.
    Well, after learning about the PAX system, realized, I majorly screwed-up. Might as well pushed bamboo-shoots under my finger nails.
    The way we realized Honda & Michellin shouldn't be used in the same sentence was after bringing it to our local shop (Kaufmann Tires). They couldn't do the alignment since their machine couldn't fit around the tire. After paying through the yin-yang to the local Honda dealer, both service garages said the same thing: treads are at 2/32s. Further, only the single type of Michellin tires would fit. What a corner Honda has stuck us into.
    After surfing for answers, all hope was not lost. Went back to Kaufmann and presented them with all sorts of printouts including the College Hills episode 131 DePaxing video (download). After reviewing, they realized "We can do it!"
    Within 1-day:
    - 4-new Michelin Energy LX4 17"
    - 4-new Platinum SS rims (5-spoke)
    - TPMS easily transferred onto the new rims
    - alignment, balance, etc. (usual new tire stuff).
    Much less than the $1400 Honda wanted to charge just for the tires.
    Now, I have road-mobility that can be serviced anywhere. No more reliance on an over-priced, socially unacceptable and uncaring, lack of customer care type of companies (Honda & Michelin, i.e.). And, the tires can be serviced by any of the shops, nationwide. No more paying $400+ for a simple nail in the tire. With this purchase, the repairs are free.

    The reason for the downgrade from the PAX 18" to the 17" is primarily rubbing. I've seen posts on other threads that the 18" size causes wheel-well rubbing. We have experienced that a lot with this van. Now, shouldn't be much of an issue.
    As for the old rims, going to bring to a 3rd-party dealer and see if they want to buy them (probably cheap). May end-up as planters in our backyards, or, manure traps for the local wildlife, which would be more useful than their currently assigned functions.
    Only problem is it seems EVERYONE is DePaxing. We went to get a new donut-spare with the install kit. Quoted $245 from Honda. Problem - none in the state. Closest one is 5-6 hrs away in North Carolina. Oh, they can order one but takes about a week.
    Next time, gonna be very leary of anything Honda puts out. I'm not as much a loyal customer based on this fubar they've done.
    The lawsuit doesn't even compensate for this type of stuff. The only saving-grace is the spare-tire. Honda offers $110 (with proof of doco), yet, won't record it being purchased at their shop for $245. This is the most monetarily rewarding part to the lawsuit. Reading through it, the rest is B.S.
    In a few years when its time to get a new van, Honda will NOT be at the top of the list.
  • mr302homr302ho Member Posts: 1
    I have 4 wheel, TPMS sensors and tires mounted and ready to bolt on. Two wheels are slightly bent but all tires have less than 7k miles on them, almost new. Retail for $1250 from dealer. They are ready to go and I am in MAssachusetts. Drop my a line for more info and pics. Thanks.
  • skap2skap2 Member Posts: 34
    If you email me I'll give you some thoughts and suggestions. skaplitt@yahoo.com
  • cyberpunkcyberpunk Member Posts: 39
    Ok, I got my new Odyssey touring with PAX last week. I had absolutely no idea of problems related to PAX when I purchased it. So what do I do now?

    I am thinking to ask dealer to dePAX my Odyssey at their expense. Has anyone done this? Will this be even possible???

    If not, what do you guys recommend?

    I recommend you relax and enjoy your new car. And enjoy your peace of mind that comes with knowing you and/or your wife can drive safely to a safe place (home or a dealership) in the event of a flat tire or blow-out.

    The silent majority of PAX owners are content with their purchase. I consider the additional cost of the system (i.e., relatively high tire replacement costs, and shorter-lifecycle) to be perfectly acceptable costs for knowing that my wife will not be stranded on the side of the road with our two kids, dealing with a flat tire.
  • stuman168stuman168 Member Posts: 27
    Ok, I got my new Odyssey touring with PAX last week. I had absolutely no idea of problems related to PAX when I purchased it. So what do I do now?

    I am thinking to ask dealer to dePAX my Odyssey at their expense. Has anyone done this? Will this be even possible???

    If not, what do you guys recommend?

    If you already bought the car just enjoy your car. Don't worry too much the tire will last at least 20k if you properly inflated. it's easy just check the MID for tire pressure on each tire. If you use your minivan for a long trip I would suggest for you to buy a spare as getting the tire replaced may be difficult in the remote area.
    Remember at least if you have a puncture in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere you can still drive the car 125 miles with at least 50 mph. replacing for $250 per tire is not bad when you consider your wife don't have to be stranded somewhere waiting for the tire to be change (esp important if you have infant or toddler)
  • frank103frank103 Member Posts: 3
    I see most of posts are about 2005-2007. What about 2008 model? Anything specific about dePAX that model? Thanks.
  • eddieboyeddie1eddieboyeddie1 Member Posts: 4
    Dealing with these PAX tires now, wife purchased 06 RL with Tek package, when she brought the car home I phoned the dealer to make sure he can service these tires / wheels, he assurred us he could, well he can't, we have had serval differenct sotries regarding these tire / wheels we will never own another acura / honda again, dealer is useless, dealing with one goodyear dealer in our area who is willing to change these out, he did the follow up on this product, it is a sad day when you buy a 50,000 car and have the acura dealers just shrough there shoulders, well good by acura / honda, never again.
  • driver8675309driver8675309 Member Posts: 2
    Before DePAXing your Honda, you need to consider what the trade offs are. Some people are happy with knowing that their family bus will not be stranded with a flat while mom is shuttling kids around town. However, there is the issue of cost and limited places that a tire can be serviced. If you plan on taking the minivan on a cross-country trek, one must consider that 125 miles might not get you to anyone that can fix a PAX tire.

    I found that my local Honda dealership drives their PAX work to the ONLY tire store in the county that has the PAX tire machine. The Honda dealership cannot service PAX tires!!! To add insult to injury, they charge you extra to drive it over to the tire store. They won't tell you unless you ask if they actually perform the PAX tire service.

    The MATH: To get a new set of PAX tires that will last about 30K miles costs $1200. To De-Pax and get 80K mile tires costs $1900. (my PAX tires lasted only 27K miles) My number crunching told me that over the next 80K miles I would need 3 sets of PAX tires. $3600 versus $1900 AND now that I have new rims the next set of 80K tires will be only $650 while the PAX tires will still cost $1200. Over the life of 150K miles, which the Honda should do if basic maintenance is done, the cost of PAX tires is $4800 while the de-paxing will cost $2550.

    You need to pick the tire make and model that you want on the car BEFORE getting new tire rims. Not all tires are available with 17-inch rims. This is important when deciding which rims to get for your car since the PAX rims have to be replaced when you de-pax. You will be getting either 235/65 R16 or 235/60 R17 tires. The most recommended tires were the Michelin Energy LX4 and Goodyear Assurance ComforTred. BUT giving business back to Michelin after the PAX disaster seemed silly. I decided that I wanted to get Goodyear Assurance TripleTred tires for better traction, which are only available in 235/65 R16.

    Tire stores are going to have a hard time removing the tire pressure sensors. As a result they will be charging you labor time that is equal to if not more than the cost of buying new sensors. My advice is to just buy a new set of pressure sensors and leave the PAX tires completely intact. Storing them might be an issue since each tire weighs 70 pounds.

    I got my DePAX kit from College Hills Honda. http://www.collegehillshonda.com. Select Odyssey DePAX kits on their homepage. They are EXTERMELY helpful. Call toll free and ask for the parts department and talk to them about DePAXing. Their kits come with a mounted spare that takes only 2 minutes to put into the Odyssey spare compartment. (You will discover that your Odyssey did come with a jack and lug wrench, just no spare) They also tell you about the need to change out lug nuts based on your model year and tire rim selected.

    My recommendation is that you buy a DePAX kit that matches your desired new tire make and model. Purchase the new Sensor Kit that includes the Valve Assembly Kit as well as new Center Caps for the new rims. You will need to get the Lug Nut Kit if you are a 2005-2007 and are changing to a 2008-2009 rim. Get the new tires and sensors mounted and balanced and replace the PAX tires without trying to reuse the pressure sensors in the existing PAX tires. This will give you the option to put the PAX tires back on anytime you want.
  • stevexrxstevexrx Member Posts: 2
    Just DePAXed my 07 Touring. Discount Tire installed 18X8 TSW Mallory 5s with Yokohama YK520 235/60R-18 107V. I kept the original TPMS sensors. Michelin was nice enough to credited me $38.00 per tire. The new wheels are very conservative & accent the van. Drove a little over 90 miles today in town & highway, my Honda has never driven smoother or quieter. My center console no longer vibrates, it's like driving a $40k dollar minivan. I purchased a spare tire kit from College Hill Honda $228.84+sh (will process the paper for my $110 refund this weekend).
  • deerface26deerface26 Member Posts: 10
    I'm sitting here with BIG knots in my stomach after reading these De-PAX and RFT horror stories...pretty freaked out --feel like crying. I am completely IN LOVE with the Odyssey mini-van and need it. I've been an EX-L leasee since 2001. I'm picking up a lease turn-in on a 2007 Odyssey Touring with 36,000 miles as my current EX-L lease is due. And now, I just feel like CANCELING THE WHOLE DEAL!!

    I was just told last night by my Honda dealer that after their 150-count inspection that 2 out of the 4 RFT did not pass HONDA certification--they are being REPLACED BRAND NEW. Ok, that's good for me on at least 2 of them. And, of course, as you all know, I asked the dealer about DePax on all four at their cost--NO WAY! But we ALL know that already. I guess that the DePax battle and headache is just a bit down the road but at least after reading all these blogs I've learned it's more common and can breathe knowing I it can be done. I've read about 200 blogs,

    I read the latest news about the Michelin-honda settlement and the opt-out. At some point I will be De-Paxing and contacting CollegeHills Honda to buy a DePax kit. I've got a list of the DePax certified shops near me and will call ALL of them and begin to get pricing. I'm ready when the time comes.

    My serious questions are below and would someone PLEASE give me their opinion since everyone here is really knowledge and I trust these blogs (honesty and safety is everything!)

    --What do I need to ask the dealer about the remaining 2 RFT tires?

    --What are the important questions to ask their parts/service department while I am there?

    --I will be driving the 'new' Odyssey 2007 Touring for an initial 200-mile trip (each way) with kids and heavy, heavy packing and Thule the day after I pick it up.

    1. Should I worry badly ABOUT driving this far with a very heavy load and RFT tires?

    2. Should I over inflate the tires to 39 PSI as has been suggested by other PAX users?

    3. Should I always keep the tires around 39 PSI?

    4. Does anyone think since Michelin/Honda have stopped RTF contract, that it will now cost MORE to dePax?

    I have noticed though that since more dealers and auto repair shops are DePAXING, the cost has come down a bit since the earlier blogs.

    5. In someone's opinion, what be the best and most cost-effective tire replacement for me to consider when I De Pax? Tires size and rims, etc. Size?
    Brand? Do I still need the TMPS equipment?

    So, who thinks I'm crazy to pick up this Odyssey Touring with PAX tires tomorrow?

    I'm now happy and sad all at the same time.

    Thanks for ALL feedback to my ranting and questions.

    ~Deerface26
  • driver8675309driver8675309 Member Posts: 2
    If you are LEASING the car ......

    1. You don't own the car so you have no authority to DEPAX it,

    2. JUST LEASE an ODYSSEY without PAX !!!! 2009 Touring models do come with a No-PAX configuration.

    Tire pressures are measured COLD with the anticipation that they will increase by 4 PSI once the tires warm up. The owners manual says 33 PSI front and 35 PSI rear for PAX tires.....this means that when you are driving down he road, 37 and 39 PSI are the target pressures. You can read them while you are driving on the dash display. See manual if you don't know how to get to that display.

    My Posting number 1405 details what I think is the best option for depaxing since it leaves the PAX tires intact and fully ready to return to the car anytime you want to restore the PAX tires.
  • smlycatsmlycat Member Posts: 23
    Does your lease contain a 100% maintainence coverage? If so, it may not be too bad. But keep in mind, only the Honda dealer can change them or repair a flat.

    I agree with deerface, go with an '08, '09, or '10 without PAX. You don't want to own the van with the PAX tire package if you can help it.

    BTW - I got 27,500 out of my PAX tires before I de-paxed (16" EX Honda wheels with new touring sensors) and I always ran 35psi all the way around. 33psi in the front tires tended to wearout the edges way too fast. After de-paxing, I still had 5/32 of tread left. I'll either e-bay them, sell them with the van, or throw them back on and wear them out.

    In theory PAX are really cool, but in reality they suck!
  • stuman168stuman168 Member Posts: 27
    1. Should I worry badly ABOUT driving this far with a very heavy load and RFT tires? as long you do not exceed the recommended weight you probably OK. I have travel on 500 plus trip several times was OK until our last trip in which the tire puncture on sunday. see previous post

    2. Should I over inflate the tires to 39 PSI as has been suggested by other PAX users?
    I keep it 35 cold because it'll increase to 39-40 when hot
    3. Should I always keep the tires around 39 PSI?

    4. Does anyone think since Michelin/Honda have stopped RTF contract, that it will now cost MORE to dePax?

    I have noticed though that since more dealers and auto repair shops are DePAXING, the cost has come down a bit since the earlier blogs.

    5. In someone's opinion, what be the best and most cost-effective tire replacement for me to consider when I De Pax? Tires size and rims, etc. Size?

    Brand? Do I still need the TMPS equipment?

    if your wife is primary driver and most of the trips will be less than 125 miles
    I still think it's better to keep the PAX. you may want to ask the dealer to change
    the other 2 pax for a big discount and install you a spare tire just incase you're traveling far and to more remote area
    I still keep my pax and cost 250 to change including gel and labor and have installed spare tire just in case
  • deerface26deerface26 Member Posts: 10
    Hi and first, thanks for th ereply. NO, I am BUYING/OWNING the 2007 Touring (tomorrow) with 2 new PAX tiress so far, so the PAX warranty applies. It was CHEAPER to buy the 2007 Touring than leasing the 2009 w/o PAX!! (no money out of pocket on a lease is always what I do). And thank you for #1405 reply for DEPAXING as I will SAVE that for my future need (which you know I will have!!).
  • deerface26deerface26 Member Posts: 10
    Thank you Stuamn168 for your informative reply. I will definitely start with 35 PSI all around cold. I am packing probably packing pretty heavy so how do I find out the recommended weight for the van? I really load it up and my husband alone weighs 312 pounds! Scary, right? I will ask about installing a spare tire just in case. Good idea and appreciated. Where do they put it? Except for 2 trips a year, everything else is definitely under 125 miles. I will eventually be depaxing some time soon I'm sure. Thank you again. So, should I still have these bad knots in my stomach when I pick up the car tomorrow?
  • thebingsthebings Member Posts: 10
    I am getting ready to de-pax my '06 touring. I have decided on Kumho Solus KR21 235/60/17 tires but I can't decide on wheels. Tirerack sells a Elbrus wheel, Wheelrack sells a Sport wheel, Discount Tire Direct sells a Drag wheel. These are all very good looking wheels and a really good price. They are all built in China. Does anyone have any knowledge or experience with any of these wheels. Thanks
    Don
  • vinnynyvinnyny Member Posts: 764
    I'm getting ready to trade in my fourth Odyssey (the second with PAX). Although the van has only 26,5xx on the odometer, the tires look like they've got 45K on them. I rotate the tires religiously at 5K miles and keep the pressure at 35 psi cold.

    When I bought my 2006, I didn't know about the issues with PAX. When I bought my second Touring model, I was fully informed and made a conscious decision to trade the convenience, lower cost, and better ride quality of standard tires for the safety of PAX. I have driven my Ody fully loaded through the Arizona/California desert dozens of times without issue. I drove the van from Arizona to Virginia loaded to the roof (and luggage on top) without a problem. I drove the van from Southern VA to New England a dozen times worry-free. Finally, I drove it to Florida where it now lives. From a utility and safety perspective, the Odyssey is without peer.

    That said, I'd make the dealer replace all four PAX tires in order to do the deal. good luck!
  • deerface26deerface26 Member Posts: 10
    Vinnyny,

    Well we bought the 2007 with PAX tire set (2 out of 4 brand new), dealer would not go for the other 2 but picked up my last payments on my current lease so that what the price of the other 2 tires. Ride is great I must admit and the Touring is amazing. 2007 or not ! There are nearby run-flat service places not far away and we were loaded up with kids, luggage, etc. So far, we love it, and let's see what happens from here on out...
  • stuman168stuman168 Member Posts: 27
    Deerface,
    Congrats on your Ody. We had the same 2007 touring and really enjoy it. I am keeping the PAX tires. While it may not be around in 5 years, I really give me a peace of mind knowing that the car can be driven for 125 miles when the tire is flat.
    Did you manage to get the dealer install you a spare tire?
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