Toyota FJ Cruiser

davesbrew · February 2005

I'm a little disappointed they got rid of the integrated winch. That was a big selling point for me, and a reason to purchase it instead of a wrangler. Even though you must bolt on the winch on the wrangler, it is proven and the equipment is readily avalable to the consumer through many sources.

I hope that Toyota offers an integrated winch as eith a package or accessory.

bpratico · February 2005

You can download a PDF file from the Toyota web site with the prelim specs. Very promising.

At the unveiling, Toyota offered to price yet - but promised it would be "surprising". My guess is $25 for a base model.

tommyg12 · February 2005

I missed the live feed and waiting on the replay. Any interior photos yet? How about pricing?

bpratico · February 2005

The picture on the PDF file shows a winch mount on the front. I would be surpised if they don't offer it as an option.

bpratico · February 2005

They flashed a couple if interior photos at the unveiling. Industrial feel - not for everyone (which Toyota emphasized.) No carpeting. I like it!

elemint · February 2005

Good call on waiting! This is the ONLY vehicle i have been excited about in decades and may be my first new car. I will go to the auto show and check it out. Should take me all of 10min for 99% of the cars are BORING. Now i just hope they keep that cool interior in the concept. Half my decision in buy a car is the interior feel and function. Also i hope they dont go with the passe column shifter and waste that area for storage room.

elemint · February 2005

Correction: 11 inches shorter and 4" narrower than 4-runner

What he said was length is 11" shorter but wheelbase only 4" shorter. It is probably the same or wider than the 4 runner.

elemint · February 2005

They flashed an interior photo but he said it was not finalized yet. Nothing like the concept unfortunatly.... Pricing: "priced for first time entry suv buyers" In other words it will be expensive unless you are a ceo. It also looked like they are changing the tail gate to a swing out with a tire on it. That stinks too. Hey Toyota, An outdoors person NEEDS a tailgate that folds DOWN so you can sit on it or transport long stuff! IE honda element.

strager · February 2005

Because the FJ looks so "different", I think it's going to be a sensation when it arrives next year. Hummer H3 will probably be toast, I'm sure the FJ will give better gas mileage and will be $10K less expensive.

But then I've heard other people say that the FJ is another Element and sales will start tanking after a year or two. Does anyone here feel that it has the same appeal as the Element?

chidoro · February 2005

To me it seems more of a Element/Wrangler hybrid. Rugged but w/ utility.

tommyg12 · February 2005

fyi......autoweek.com has posted some pretty good shots of the production model. No interior yet.

elemint · February 2005

The hummer is a joke and will go down in history as a scam. A faux military starbux car. Who cares if sales tank after the first day? I am going to get one if it holds true to what they are saying. I love the element but it is just not heavy duty enough for me. This is like a Truck element, just hope the mpg is not too bad.

callmedrfill · February 2005

Again!

   Grab an increasing share in a diminishing market (Pure-bred off-roaders, Element, Wrangler, Xterra, Hummer).

   I'll bet the last buggy-whip was a pretty good tool!

   Maybe the Supra will come back!

   In 2008.

   DrFill

elemint · February 2005

Are you a toyota share holder? Who cares unless you are one? There are some people like myself who view a vehicle as a tool. That said i want a tool that works well, is reliable and does not have a bunch of garbage that gets in the way of it lasting. I will never buy a lawnmower with leather and wood trim. Why would i buy a car with that stuff. As for you supra. I dont think having the FJ hurts the chances of one. Maybe the small cramped sports car market will return if the mustang is a hit.

scooter71 · February 2005

They definitely botched this one.

callmedrfill · February 2005

ALL who enter value my wisdom, my input, and now are able to speak of this white (topped) elephant!

  If only it were as cool as the Mini Copper it unsuccessfully apes.



   Thank You.

   DrFill

elemint · February 2005

Let me guess. You just bought a new car? This is the best car EVER!

scooter71 · February 2005

Since you're interested- I drive a '91 Honda.

The FJ is clearly aimed at the frat crowd, i.e. those who want to appear "cool", as opposed to grown men.

scooter71 · February 2005

Maybe the sorority crowd too.

Kirstie_H · February 2005

Well, if the "frat crowd" has some purchasing power and they're buying vehicles, then Toyota needs something that appeals to that market. There are a lot of vehicles out there that don't appeal to me, especially at this stage in my life, but that doesn't mean they're inherently bad.

bpratico · February 2005

Anyone seen any interior shots on-line yet of the prototype at the Chicago show?

kernick · February 2005

I thought the prototype (concept) was shown at an autoshow in 2003? This is supposed to be the production version right? Or is this a beta version?

I also see that Toyota has updated their info. on the FX, and have new exterior pictures, but nothing on the interior. Maybe the interior hasn't been finished in time for the show?

elemint · February 2005

The one at this auto show is the beta/production version. It is not 100% decided apon. The did show the interior for a second at the release but it looked unfinished. It is likley that many non structural changes will be made by production time.

nippononly · February 2005

no way is this thing going to be $25K to start. They put out a V-6 4x4 Tacoma XtraCab for $22,2 that has the same running gear FJ does, and the two also have comparable levels of standard equipment. Plus the FJ is smaller. I bet the V-6 4x4 will start right around $22K. Which seems just about right to me. I noted with interest that the automatic (5-speed, good choice Toyota) is standard, and the 6-speed manual is optional on the 4x4 only. I wonder if that means they will actually charge extra for the manual in this model.

And I guess Toyota has answered one of my main questions: there will not be a base engine that is smaller than the V-6. I figure this thing has to be at least a little lighter than the Tacoma pick-up, so that V-6 will really light it up.

Locking diff is optional, as are power mirrors, alloy wheels, privacy glass, cruise and all that other jazz. That is good, except I wish the locking diff were standard. But this matches the Tacoma too, so I am not surprised. I figure the FJ configured the way I would want it would be close to $25K.

And for you tow fans, I guess it will tow 5000 pounds, which outstrips the Element (not surprisingly given that the Element is a high-roof car, and this thing is an actual truck).

I very much like the specs they have shown so far, now I await a better look at a production interior. The rubber floors work just fine for me. The standard stereo has separate tweeters, a little thing that I like.

I think they will offer a factory package that includes a winch - it is not surprising it is not standard given that there will be a 4x2 model, and that there will certainly be the snow crowd among the customers for this model, that will not want an extra hundred pounds hanging off their front bumper in the form of a winch they will never use.

There is no reason Toyota should not get back in the Jeep game with a niche model like this that costs them so little: this is basically just a repackaging of the mechanicals for the Tacoma 4x4 truck with a fresh body style. They have always had great trucks, and they should not cede the offroader contingent to the XTerra, even if they ARE only worth perhaps 50K sales a year, or whatever.

bpratico · February 2005

I have an 84 4Runner (first year they came out!) that I'll finally be putting out to pasture if I like the FJ when it'a released. While it's no longer my primary vehicle, the 4Runner is amazing - just keeps trucking with nary a complaint. I'ts been all over he U.S. ... and even spent 3 years in Italy in the mid 80s. And yup - it has a removable top. Will be sad to see it go. Lotsa' memories.

But, the FJ looks like a suitable replacement. Would like to see some interior shots of the car in Chicago.

benderofbows · February 2005

I'd like to see the cargo area, how versatile it is (do the rear seats fold flat, etc) and see how much stuff I could fit back there. Otherwise, I'd consider purchasing it. I think that alot of the "over the top" styling cues will be toned down on the production model.

nippononly · February 2005

Toyota has stated (in the press release) that the rear seas do in fact fold flat. As far as space, it is 11" shorter than the new 4Runner, and 4 inches narrower - the way I picture that in my head there ought to be lots of rear cargo space with the seats down.

bpratico: cool truck! I have always been curious about those 4Runners, does the pop-off top leak when you wash it? When I bought mine I thought about getting an older used one with the "convertible", but didn't want to have to deal with the hassle of manually locking hubs. f course, in the new Tacoma and the FJ it is just a dial on the dash - there isn't even a lever to pull any more, let alone hubs to lock.

bpratico · February 2005

Re the 84 4Runner:

Nope - top has never leaked. Also got a sunroof, which has also never leaked. But the interior is now pretty ratty, having hauled dogs in it for years. Still has original paint (gold) and still looks good, having kept wax on it through the years. The cheap plastic covers on storage comparments of the side of the bed are falling apart, and the radio tuner is flaky. But everything else still works.

robmatt54 · February 2005

Will it be made in US or Japan?

nippononly · February 2005

the Tacomas at NUMMI in Fremont, CA, so they could conceivably add this model, I guess. Otherwise, the 4Runner is still manufactured in Japan, so that is probably where the FJ would come from.

robmatt54 · February 2005

I am not what Toyota had in mind for this vehicle (age 50) but my 96 Avalon has 145,000 miles and I always liked the old landcruisers. My cars are always a mess because I enjoy surfcasting and hiking. Maybe its a mid life crises but I would love to be in the FJ. When I first saw a picture in 2003 I got excited but I did not think they would build it. The ride would have to be somewhat comfortable on the highway for me- not like an Avalon but tolerable. So we will see. Still have to talk my wife into it.

nymphetamine · February 2005

Overall Length: 177.6

Overall Width: 74.6

Overall Height: 70.9

Wheelbase: 105.9

Ground Clearance: 9.6

Those stats alone are why this SUV is better than every single SUV out there, which are either too long, too narrow, or both.

And even the ones that come close can't match Toyota quality/price.

As far as the design, it even looks good in that ridiculous blue, imagine it in black or silver.

I've waited a long time for an SUV that can match the VehiCross in terms of style, dimensions, and yes TWO DOORS, and Toyota has finally done it and better.

bpraxis · February 2005

As a 46 year old male some would think that I would not be the target market for the FJ. In my opinion this vehicle will possibly have a broader appeal then Toyota is expecting somewhat like the Element.

  The FJ has spectacularly unique individual styling with fun funky details everywhere. A design tour-de-force in my opinion. I have seen pics of the interior and the dash has a mechanical appearance matching the color of the exterior of the truck.

  The FJ is going to be a smash hit and I hope that I will be able to negotiate a decent discount in the first year.

  It is amazing to me how much fun styling you can buy today for a very modest price. Witness the Mini, The PT Cruiser, the Element, The Scion line, The VW Bug etc and now the FJ Cruiser, Wow. At one time you really had to spend a lot of money to make a design statement. Capitalism is wonderful. And a neighbor of mine just brought home a new Mercedes CLS, Wow.

  I have owned a Lotus Esprit Turbo, various Corvettes, Dodge Stealth, 57 T bird, Nissan 280 Z, Masseratti Merek, Toyota Celica, Lexus SC and now the Infiniti FX35.

  One other car that looks to be a home run for 2006 is the new Saturn Sky. Cant wait to see that in person also.

callmedrfill · February 2005

Since it's not the stud (in design) the last FJ was, and it seems the effort that coulda went to a new Supra was used to make a SIXTH 'Yota SUV (can Scion get one, maybe?), AND it seems to be attracting an aged demographic, I have to give it the Raspberry.

DrFill

buffalonickel · February 2005

The kicker: The Celica is going to be cut! The only sports car Toyota is working on is that exotic Lexus that sat on the turntable. That car will cost the buyer six figures!

What about all the young bucks and old bucks who just want a convertible sports car, stick shift, and an engine with some torque instead of whining rpms!

B

callmedrfill · February 2005

Once every 20 years or so, GM does something right.

   So 'Yota has Echo (Vitz), Corolla (Matrix is not a car to me), Solara, Camry, and Avalon.

   So 5 cars, 6 SUV

   I guess they're trying to reflect the market!

   I still want a car for MEN!

   Saturn Sky looks good. New Civic Si. Dodge is for men only.



   DrFill

nippononly · February 2005

so just exactly what is the Matrix, if not a car? LOL

Oh yeah, and you forgot the Prius.

And I think of it more in terms of cars and trucks. For Yota, the count is five trucks, 7 cars, and two wannabe middle-of-the-roaders, the RAV and Highlander, which really can't do anything trucky but do sit tall and look the part, with the consequent loss of fuel economy that entails.

Now we can add one to the trucks count, the FJ. 2006, here we come. I will almost definitely be picking one of these suckers up. But having picked up a first-year Toyota recently (my can-of-loose-bolts '03 Matrix), I will not soon be making the mistake of buying in the first year again. So perhaps my own driveway will not contain an FJ until calendar 2007...

PS After MR2 and Celica go, the next two on the possible mid-future chopping block are Echo and Land Cruiser, so one of each, car and truck. Just in case you wanted to, say, accuse Toyota of being heavily truck-biased...

:-)

callmedrfill · February 2005

Too tall, boxy, and useful to be cars. Why it's sales are counted with Corolla makes NO SENSE! They may share a platform and engine, but come on, who they kiddin'!

  Yeah, the new Cruiser I guess replaces the Real Cruiser, by 2007 I'd say.

  I test drove the Vibe GT. Was a LOT of fun!

  Steering wheel seemed welded into the dash, though. Driving became awkward. But roomy!

  How can I forget Prius?

  I left out Tundra and Tacoma. They definitely aren't cars.

  Toyota has become cars are for girls, trucks are for guys. I'm nmot vibin' with them right now.

  I'm selling my Civic and looking at the 93 MR2.

  But 132k? Guy wants $6k. It's in great shape, but not that much.

  I want a Cooper, made by 'Yota!

  DrFill

chris65amg · February 2005

Hmm.... i don't really have a problem with 'Yota having a bunch of trucks. I mean, look at Chevy.... or Ford.... well anyway. I hope that Toyota axes the Land Cruiser or makes it a more powerful trim of Sequoia or something. I hope that they make that Supra replacement thingamajig, because cutting the Supra is like cutting an arm off. Then they need to make the Highlander a little more refined, and more clearly a crossover. Then they need to move 4 Runner down in price to compete with the Trailblazer and Explorer. Also, making it a little bigger. Then they could position the FJ in between the Higlander and RAV4 in terms of price. Also, they should add a more powerful 4 cylinder to the RAV4 or make a V-6 option.

As for cars.... Bring back Supra

Prius rocks. A little more power wouldn't hurt. Camry needs new styling. I guess when you're pumping out 400000 of any car a year it would look boring anyway. Bigger engine in Matrix. More power in Tundra.

I'm done

sik99 · February 2005

Fill...

Did you not see this?

"Contrary to rumors, Toyota's Supra replacement will in no way, shape or form, bear any resemblance to the Giugiaro-designed Volta concept which appeared in Geneva last March. Toyota does, however, plan on delivering a high-performance sports car along the lines of the departed Supra some time between the end of 2006 and 2007. This two-door, front-engine, rear-wheel-drive sport coupe might be built on an all-new platform, although it's expected that Lexus will not build its own variation. Toyota's luxury subsidiary will instead build its own supercar based on the LF-A concept shown at this year's Detroit auto show. The car will probably be priced from around $30,000 and some sort of prototype could very likely debut at the 2005 Tokyo Motor Show"

http://www.edmunds.com/future/2007/toyota/supra/100486034/preview- .html?tid=edmunds.f.mmindex.content.num97.0.all*

Now you can quit whining about your supra. I currently own a 98 4'runner. With the exception of the cupholders, and lack of power(the v-6 is laggy) it is one of the best "trucks" out there. I tell ya what though...I wouldn't trade it for one the new 4'runners. Too mommy-fied for my taste.

For all you comparing a nissan product to a toyota product, you should be ashamed. Don't get me wrong I like nissan styling. Their reliability though leaves something to be desired.

This FJ looks to be a great truck for toyota. Something that can compete with jeep for off-road capability AND still have the piece of mind with toyota reliability.

-SiK99

callmedrfill · February 2005

And if they do bring it back, it's too late by then.

   The Sports car market cycle(outside of 'Vette) has only 3-4 years to it, then it's burnt out, then dormant for 4-5 years. 'Yota has clearly missed this cycle.

   They WILL build that Lexus supercar!

   But they won't "dumb it down" enough to make the Supra live again, in any relevant form.

   And it would hurt the Lexus. You can't sell a $100k car, then sell a knock-off with strong performance for $30K. Rich folks ain't havin' it!

   Stop talking about Supra! It depresses me!

   FJ is uglier than the original, and IT MISSED this SUV cycle (Hummer cycle) too!

   All the freaks will buy it for a couple of years, than it's a Celica.

   DrFill

nymphetamine · February 2005

"FJ is uglier than the original, and IT MISSED this SUV cycle (Hummer cycle) too!"

That comments make me wonder just what you are filled with, fill.

If you havent learned the SUV is not a "cycle" by now, check the numbers.

In fact, the only downside to an SUV is the bulk, which, guess what, Toyota solves with the perfectly proportioned and styled FJ.

callmedrfill · February 2005

A. The Super Off-Roader is a "Cycle"

   This is not a 4Runner, that can take potholes smoothly, and rock the rocks. This is a dedicated off-road machine. You are playing to a very narrow market. AND only 2-doors! Limits it's versatility.

   B. The Element and XTerra didn't fly far.

   The Element is high teens! The Xterra sells 60-70k? With 4 doors? This truck is $22-23k all over the place. Over $25k with options!

   C. The market is heading DEEP into crossover SUV.

   Why NOW release a super off-roader? Timing?

   Look up the Toyota RSC from the 2002 Show Circuit. THAT is where the market is headed in 5-7 years.

  Release THAT off-roader, today!! I'm all over it!

  I'll buy two of those!!

  And I guess you haven't seem a hooked-up old-school FJ. Watch MTV's "Pimp My Ride", where they do one up in YELLOW (!), and it looks hard as hell!

  It looks like Wrangler's Big Brother, just out of the Slammer, on more 'Roids than Giambi!

  Remake THAT FJ!

  Toyota can do better.

  Make a Supra

  Make an RSC.

  Remake the FJ PROPERLY.

  Thank You.

  DrFill

nippononly · February 2005

you've got me grinning here! OK, lessee...

" B. The Element and XTerra didn't fly far."

Both outsold their respective companies' sales projections, right out of the gate. The XTerra continued to do so through most of its first gen model cycle, and Honda had to shift production to build more Elements to meet demand.

But forget Element, it is a car, FJ is a truck. XTerra is the only comparable vehicle out there.

"This truck is $22-23k all over the place. Over $25k with options!"

As will be the FJ, I am sure. And your point is? Perhaps the only other small truck-based SUV you could compare besides the XTerra is the Jeep Liberty, which also costs around this much with the V-6 and 4WD, and that is a V-6 that is seriously down on power compared to the FJ's 4.0

"Why NOW release a super off-roader? Timing?"

NO, because Toyota no longer has one (unless you have $50K to spend on an LC, and REALLY like leather). And it has always been a truck company with some genuine offroad cred. To maintain that, it needs a vehicle like FJ right now.

Oh yeah, and

"A. The Super Off-Roader is a "Cycle"

This is not a 4Runner, that can take potholes smoothly, and rock the rocks. This is a dedicated off-road machine. You are playing to a very narrow market. AND only 2-doors! Limits it's versatility."

I am not sure where you got the idea that the Super Off Roader, whatever that is, is a cycle. There are as many people today, if not more, as there were 40 years ago that like to go offroad in their trucks. It was never a big portion of the market, but it is a small, strong foundation on which to base a truck like FJ. Add to that a bunch of people who will want one for the snow and only need a smaller vehicle, and a few who just think it looks cool or want an SUV but can't afford a midsize one, and bingo! 50K sales per year easy. IIRC, Toyota is only hoping for 40K in the first year.

And this has all the mechanicals of the Tacoma, so where's the downside for Toyota? It can be brought to market cheaply for them, and as a result can be a niche model rather than one that has to draw down major sales to recoup costs.

nymphetamine · February 2005

"XTerra is the only comparable vehicle out there."

Well there is also the Kia Sorento.

So the only question is why WOULDNT Toyota (or anyone else) put out a vehicle with only two direct competitors?

Especially when it overtakes both of them in terms of design and quality so much so that in effect it has NO direct competition?

Thanks to the FJ, you wont have to settle or compromise with any of the LAME current crop of SUVs or crossovers out there.

nippononly · February 2005

yeah, I hadn't thought of the Sorento. That one is still frame-based for a while longer, but isn't really in the same category in my mind because it has nothing in the way of offroad-oriented equipment. I don't think it has a two-speed transfer case? It runs on passenger radials. It is designed as a people mover; in fact it has been criticized for its weight because it has been compared to unibody people-movers as its intended competition.

XTerra is solid competition for FJ, Liberty is less so, and to me that seems to be about it, unless you want to toss in Wrangler, which I wouldn't.

serranot · February 2005

"Toyota can do better.

Make a Supra"

Talk about being out of cycle. Two-door sports cars are way out.

Regards,

Tom

benderofbows · February 2005

Actually the Sorentos are supposed to be pretty good off-road, they do have low-range.

I don't think the FJ would have poor on-road characteristics as doc fill suggests. 4runners ride well, and this is the same frame (alot shorter overall length but not much shorter wheelbase).

callmedrfill · February 2005

   #100! WooHoo! Another successful forum from me!



   Now.



   Who cares about projections!

   What are 'Yota's Projections on the FJ?

   My point is the market here is very small.

   This also includes Wrangler. That is THE competition! Two-door, six cylinders, heritage, off-road (Primary use). Or the old Vehicross.

   Element is close but still a secondary competitor because of price and power differences.



   Liberty, Sorento and Xterra are 4-doors, so they are in a different class.

   Xterra sales are VERY MODEST, for a 4-door SUV with V6 power in an SUV market, with virtually NO competition! Liberty is it.

   Sorento doesn't sell. Element same.

   And, Nippon, Toyota hasn't had a major off-roader in this class for how many years? I think over the past 10-15 years, they've been doing alright, no?

   My point is instead of making an UGLY MISREPRESENTATION of an off-road legend, why not start a new class, car crossovers, with an RSC-type vehicle.

   Start turning cars into potential off-roaders (or at least great snow buggies!)!

   Instead of following a dying breed, why not just start a new one?

   Rav4? Prius? RX? They did pretty well, no?

   Start something. New. Hot! Now.

   Thank You.

   DrFill

nippononly · February 2005

let's not go and get too worked up here! :-)

Wrangler - I tossed it in, but it is an offroad beast with a removable roof. Try driving a Wrangler on a highway trip of more than, say, 3 hours. You will long for death. There are pretty much no vehicles left on the market as punishing as that.

Most of the SUVs nowadays are car-based models ("crossovers") or truck-based models tuned for pavement ride and extended to seat seven. In other words, they are all street-oriented, and/or oversized. With most of them, it has reached the point where their offroad ability s seriously compromised.

FJ is neither street-oriented nor oversized. But unlike Wrangler, it is not so awful on the street that you could not take a highway drive up to the mountains and go skiing. It just skews the balance the other way from everything out there today.

The 2-door vs 4-door distinction is not a meaningful one. Up until 2002 Toyota had a very decent stock offroad vehicle in the 4Runner. XTerra is very much an FJ competitor. Liberty is too, if you believe the hype about a frame INSIDE the unibody. Me, I think you can't have your cake and eat it too, but I have not seen anyone do anything hard-core with a Liberty yet, so I dunno for sure. It has good stats apart from that.

"Who cares about projections!"

Projections matter because they indicate the volume a manufacturer needs to sell to make a decent profit on a particular model. I think Toyota is projecting 40K for FJ in its first year out.

I know that in a bigger-is-better market like the U.S. it is very hard to get your brain around the notion that some people prefer smaller vehicles, and vehicles that are capable in different ways, but not everyone has three kids, two dogs, and a ton of useless crap that they want to tote everywhere. And some people actually need a vehicle that IS rugged, rather than just looking the part. I mean, c'mon doc, think outside the box!

Toyota FJ Cruiser

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