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The Future Of The Manual Transmission

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  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,733
    However, most won't start unless the clutch is depressed so a remote starter would have to bypass that circuit.

    Correct. AND, remote starters also connect to the vehicle's neutral safety switch, which can only be found on automatics, so that also needs to be bypassed on the remote starter itself. Most install shops will NOT install a remote start on a manual equipped car for liability reasons.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    My old 86 Subaru had the E-brake on the front wheels I thought. I know it had a strange adjuster that you had to have a special tool to change the brakes with.

    Over the years I have collected enough stuff to start my own lube and brake shop. I have ramps for oil changes, Floor jacks and jack stands for brake jobs and a whole set of air tools with a 33 gallon air compressor. Sometimes I will hook up the speed wrench just to hear the sound. ;) Then about a two years ago I got a mobile mechanic that services my car at the house when it needs servicing. I only get to use my tools for home projects or adding after market goodies that my mechanic assures me I don't need.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I stopped just short of buying air tools, but same here. :D

    Except I still do most of my own work. Just installed a rebuilt caliper on the Miata last weekend.

    Mostly it's just oil changes and tire rotations.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    I am down to doing just those things myself. But I used to do all my own brake jobs and until my first FWD car I did most of my clutch work. The thing with the mobile mechanic is it is almost as cheap to let him service my car as I can do it myself, and he is faster. It is also a problem that todays cars are harder to work on.

    I was looking at a WRX not long ago and couldn't for the life of me figure how they got to the plugs. There just doesn't seem to be enough room to get a socket and wrench between the head and the wheel well. And doesn't it have 4 coil packs?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    One, I think.

    I had to change the coil pack on my Forester and that was a cake walk.

    The plugs were hard to access on the Impreza and Forester because the engine bay is very narrow, while the boxer engine is wide. I did it twice, though, with just a few skinned knuckles.

    The WRX is a 2.0l, my Forester was a 2.5l, so I'm pretty sure the engine is not any wider. The engine bays are virtually the same, not exactly but very close. Strut tower braces are interchangeable for instance.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    Well they can't be much harder than my PT was. You have to remove the intake runners and hold them up before you can access the spark plugs. Shouldn't be a problem on most cars because they say the plugs will go 100,000 miles. That is unless you get a bad plug.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Man you guys a tuff.

    We are tough??

    IIRC, you have made a case that manual transmissions are somehow bad for the environment because some drivers might be tempted to use the upper end of the rev range rather than have an automatic nanny spank them into submission.

    By that measure, anyone using a remote starter should be immediately castrated and forced to breath the fumes of idling Tahoos! :P

    Just kidding, but you must confess to a little inconsistency on that one. ;)
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    Hopefully I can take it as well as dish it out. I will freely confess I am guilty of not shifting for the best fuel mileage or air quality. When I bought my exhaust system for my PT and now for the one I am adding to the Tahoe it is as much for how it sounds as for free flowing exhaust. However that being said I believe my contention is that the Government and the manufacturers realize that the manual transmission keeps them from having as much control of air quality as "they" would like. At least from the tree hugger perspective.

    Just remember that I fully understand that a sports car works best with a manual. I have driven manuals for years and there are still times I like a manual like when we are rock crawling. My only sin in this regard is that I have driven them so long that I would jump ship in a hot second for a sequencial paddle shifting manual in a sports car. Can you imagine the shifts you could get with a WRC car at the Rim of the world rally? Yes they are expensive but we are using computers for more and more of our automotive needs every year. I picture the day when we have drive by wire, brake by wire and shift by wire because we as humans can't keep up with all the features our vehicles will have. I see radar that will keep you from getting too close to the car in front of you in traffic as well as helping you park. It just seems like that is the only way things can go. The CVT has the potential of replacing the manual in entry level cars because it could be produced for less money. I know it isn't now but more and more Japanese cars, in Japan, are using something like the CVT for their mini cars. Not many people are learning to drive manuals in our country and to tell the truth I don't believe they care. For the first time in my life I can honestly say I know more people that "can't" drive a stick than I do that can.

    And all in all many of these new options are so tempting. I know they take away from the connection some have with the car but they sure do make driving comfortable.

    ( On Star, can I help you? Yes I am on the 10 heading East and traffic seems alfully slow. What is the problem? Sir we have a reported Accident at California you might exit at Waterman and proceed East on Redlands Blvd. and get back on at Orange. Thank you I will. )

    I don't have it but I have been with people who do and it seems so cool when they use it. And yes, I know it costs.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,678
    But I did read the article against warming up your car and how much fuel it would save if we didn't. Just don't know if I always agree.

    Yep, there are times to pre-heat (or cool).

    Nobody has seen zealous car-idling until they have visited Fairbanks. I rib people all the time about idling their cars, using remote starts, etc. If I am driving by myself, I give the car about 30 seconds of run time before it is moving, regardless of the ambient temperature because within 5-10 minutes the car will be warm anyway.

    But, if I have to take my baby somewhere, the car gets 10-15 minutes of warm up. Otherwise, the baby has to be bundled so heavily to be in the car for the first 10+ minutes that the poor kid overheats after the car does warm up. Over/under heating is a serious concern for infants that can have life-long consequences, so it is important to be cautious. In that regard, $20/gallon would not be too expensive to keep me from pre-heating the car. It would simply mean that the baby only gets four trips to town per year! :P

    That, and it is downright dangerous to drive if one is dressed for -30F or colder temperatures. Dress lightly to drive, but be sure to have the gear with you in the car should there be a problem. When I drive my old '69 Chevy pickup in the winter, whose cab only gets about 20-30 degrees above ambient when it is -40 outside, I have to wonder if I could really even move fast enough for evasive maneuvers in an emergency situation. I feel like a penguin trying to drive the thing!

    27 above zero? Yeah, those are the temperatures where we all head into town with the windows down, wearing shorts and T-shirts. Maybe in another three months... ;)

    There is really no wonder why air particulates are a problem here in the winter.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    What, you can't double clutch wearing Bunny Boots? And you call yourself an Alaskan, lol.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,678
    Most install shops will NOT install a remote start on a manual equipped car for liability reasons.

    Hmm, that is interesting. All the local shops install on manuals, but they charge between $100 and $200 more than for ATs to do it.

    A co-worker has a 2001 MT Outback with a remote start. She told me I had to perform a bunch of pre-drive stuff pretty much the equivalent of the codes rattled off by a third-base coach before I could drive her car one day. It was terribly annoying. Apparently I did not get it right and the car would simply shut down every minute or two while I was driving it (some sort of theft-protection built into the auto-start). I never drove that car again. :P

    Needless to say, I did not have an auto-start installed on my '07 MT Outback. Then again, I have never had one on any of my automatics either.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,678
    Naw, it is not the boots, it is the gloves/coats. Granted, the technologically-advanced stuff available these days lets folks cross-country ski at -30 with the cold-weather equivalent of leotards. I, on the other hand, rely on many layers of mixed modern cheap stuff and 30-40 year old hand me downs. The layers make up for lack of technological prowess. But hey, if nothing else, at least my garb matches my truck. ;)
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    My first, almost, visit to Alaska was in 1971 on my way home from Viet Nam. We were supposed to land in Fairbanks but the pilot announced that with the wind chill it was something like 45 below zero and they didn't have those cherry picker tunnels at that time. He said he didn't think we could make it to the terminal. We ended up landing at McCord AFB.
  • waterdrwaterdr Member Posts: 307
    I don't get remote starters.....a dam engine block heater is cheaper and more effective.

    Those folks from Alaska....thanks for the comments. I had to laugh as living in the Twin Cities is much the same way sometimes. It got into the high 30's this week and for Jan, that is a heat wave. I saw a guy in a Miata with the top down.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,669
    I don't get remote starters.....a dam engine block heater is cheaper and more effective.

    It's better for the engine too, idling a cold engine is bad for it.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,733
    All the local shops install on manuals, but they charge between $100 and $200 more than for ATs to do it.

    Hope that's enough to cover the potential lawsuits. ;)

    The manufacturers of the systems, to the best of my knowledge, simply state they can't be used on MT cars. I certainly wouldn't do it if I were an installer. I would do it on my OWN car, but that just ain't the same thing. I can't sue myself. ;)

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    will the near-future USA Audi A4 3.0 tdi be available with a manual transmission, including the correct number of pedals?
    how about the impending USA BMW diesels? manual trans or automatics? maybe we'll have to wait an additional year or two to get manual trans with diesel audi/bmw?
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    In my limited research of the 335d/525d, it appears that a 6-speed 3-pedal manual is not currently available for those, even in Europe? That would be very dissapointing.

    I also don't quite understand why the excuse "too much torque" is sometimes used as an explanation as to why certain engines aren't fitted with manual transmissions. AMG engineers are busy plopping 500, 600 and even 738 ft. lbs. of torque into passenger cars and can't figure out how to fit a manual transmission into their so-called SLK55 "sports car"? Pitiful.
  • scwmcanscwmcan Member Posts: 399
    Actually they ofer special units for Manual Transmissions (different programming I guess) They also have a circuit incorperated on them, that is somehome supposed to go to a switch on the shift lever to ensure that the transmission is in neutral before allowig the remote starter to operate. I know this because I have had a unit in my garage for the last few years (my partener wanted one of his car, ut after seeing what was needed we decided to forget it (the unit was on sale for $20 or so at the time) after we moved to the house with the garage ( don't really need it anymore). I personally don't see the point of them, but others do, so I guess it is as always up to the owner wether it is worth it to them or not. Of course no with the anti-idling laws in many cities here (Canada) at least, your are taking the risk of recievig a ticket using one too.
    Scott
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    But isn't this discovery a combination of what we have been talking about all these months? If the future of the manual is in the niche of the sporting vehicle doesn't that preclude most diesels? With the exception of the A-8 diesels are considered anything but sporty. As a normal transportation vehicle would the "average" consumer be interested in a manual diesel?

    I agree I can't see Torque being a problem but for normal consumer use a 4 speed manual would be about all one needed. With a lot of torque and such a short power band getting it in high gear as soon as possible and spacing the gears farther apart seems the best for fuel mileage.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    AMG engineers are busy plopping 500, 600 and even 738 ft. lbs. of torque into passenger cars and can't figure out how to fit a manual transmission into their so-called SLK55 "sports car"?

    I assume they don't want to expend the time, effort and develpoment costs to build a suitably strong manual transmission for what they preceive is a very small niche market.

    -Frank
  • bristol2bristol2 Member Posts: 736
    BMW and Audi both make diesels that would absolutely be considered sporty.

    It staggers me that BMW does not offer the 335d without an auto gear box. Interesting though that all the smaller 3-series diesel engines come with a stick as standard and the auto box is the upgrade.
  • upstatedocupstatedoc Member Posts: 710
    Hey, I used to own a sporty diesel....

    an '81 2 door VW Rabbit :P
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    That is funny. They got great fuel mileage but there was just about nothing that wasn't faster than they were. 50 HP and 50 Pft of torque didn't make for a stellar "sporty image. I car pooled for two years with a guy that had one and a diesel tractor once beat us up a long on ramp on the 55 freeway. But it did get about 48 MPG average.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Looks like Subaru dropped the manual trans option from the 2009 Forester XT.

    The base engine still offers a 5MT, but I wonder if it's just a matter of time. :cry:

    Is that lame or what? No clutch for the turbo model? If anything it should be the other way around!
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,733
    interesting. I tried looking it up, but seem to be finding conflicting info. A couple of sources say the MT remote start system relies on a whole series of checks that occur when you shut your car off in order to allow the remote start to work the next time. Some comments I've read from pro installers online are that they still won't install them, even if designed for MT. I guess those are the ones I've run into in my area. :)

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • upstatedocupstatedoc Member Posts: 710
    I used to get teased mercilessly by my friends because it was such a dog. 0-60 in 12+ seconds. Top speed of around 75mph. I heard they made them with auto tranny, can you imagine those performance numbers? The real kicker was that I owned it around the time gas prices were nose-diving (late 80's) Gas was under a dollar for super!
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Well there are two main camps regarding which models benefit the most from having a clutch:

    1. Sports cars where clutches maximize the enjoyment

    2. Weak or under-powered engines where clutches can optimize their performance

    It looks like Subaru thinks the Forester belongs to the 2nd :(

    -Frank
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Subaru can't do that! They are one of my last hopes!!!!

    I suppose this means the clock is ticking for the Outback XT manual too. :-(

    Can you imagine if they make the WRX auto-only???

    I bet the Outback 2.5i (non-turbo) keeps a standard manual shift, if only to reduce its base price.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob said the take rate on the Forester XT was just 2%.

    It's much higher on the WRX. I hope it's higher on the Outback as well.

    Dealers around me tend to stock them, maybe they just take longer to sell.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    a non-torque-having pal o mine had a 1979 dasher diesel during the 1980s. 3 speed automatic. acceleration was infinitesimal, with sun-dimming soot clouds.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    ateixeira, you don't forfeit your deposit if you don't want to take delivery.
    instead you get your whole deposit back and the dealer gets the opportunity to sell the car to someone else.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    I only drove the manual diesel Rabbit once. My friend also had a old square back and it was being worked on and he needed someone to go help him pick it up. He drove the square back home himself and I drove the Rabbit. I tried driving like you would a small gas engine and every time I lifted my foot off the accelerator to shift I thought the vehicle was going to stop. I discovered you almost had to speed shift to get it to keep up with traffic. If I kept my foot mashed to the floor it seems to drive pretty well but back off for any reason and it was slower than a riding lawn mower.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    "Subaru can't do that! They are one of my last hopes!!!! "

    I am sure glad this information didn't come from me. I see the LL Bean doesn't come in a manual either. The Legacy 6 doesn't come with a manual nor does any of the outback sedans listed for 2008 and no outback 3.0s.

    But I still believe Nissan will be first for the Japanese to drop manuals.
  • razorasdfrazorasdf Member Posts: 61
    I am sure glad this information didn't come from me. I see the LL Bean doesn't come in a manual either. The Legacy 6 doesn't come with a manual nor does any of the outback sedans listed for 2008 and no outback 3.0s.

    But I still believe Nissan will be first for the Japanese to drop manuals.


    If anything, I'd expect them to keep the stick on the 350Z and G35 and their successors for as long as BMW has equivalent models...
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    I am not sure. I understand the new Sports GT they are sending over as our version of the Skyline will not have a third pedal. Remember the G-35 hit our shores as Auto only for the first year or so. So if the GT gets a DSG might the 350 get one as well?
  • razorasdfrazorasdf Member Posts: 61
    Well, the GT-R is over double the price of the 350Z right now. True, Nissan might dump the stick on the G35's replacement (and probably piss off a lot of people - that segment still has a lot of loyalists) once BMW rolls out their DCT, but probably not in the first few model years. From what I gather, the transmission on the GT-R is still "clunky" and pretty expensive, and it would have to be - DCTs that can handle a decent amount of power cost effectively are hitting a lot of development delays. BMW and Porsche were supposed to be out with their units by now...

    I don't see the 350Z losing the manual option anytime soon. It'll raise the price too much and lose the "hardcore" image it has right now. I think the 350Z will definitely get a DCT to replace the automatic, but I'm guessing it will take 3-5 years. It will probably be one of the first cars to get it, along with the G35. After that it will slowly trickle down to the rest of the cars. I'm interested in seeing a DCT in a truck/SUV that's designed to tow a heavy load. I want to see how they're going to keep the clutches from burning up.

    Overall, it will be probably closer to 5-7 year before dual clutch transmissions make their way into the majority of cars on par with the 350Z and G35, and at least a decade until torque converter automatics become a minority in the new car market.

    You're right, though - the 350Z and the G35 are the only cars right now that Nissan gives a crap about giving manuals to, and the G35's choices are pretty limited when paired with a stick. I'm sure they'll be glad to get rid of the third pedal once the market (and BMW) will bear it.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    You might be right but I don't believe the torque converter has anything to worry about as long as the only other option is a third pedal. Americans simply do not like to shift. More that 90 percent have put out money to prove it.

    Nissan "seems" to be leading the charge getting away from manuals at least at the moment. The Murano never had one. The Maxima now doesn't have one. I don't believe the new Rogue has one. I understand the CVT outsells the manual in the Altima and they offer the manual in every configuration except the Hybrid and no one expects a hybrid to be a manual.. I even understand the Pathfinder doesn't have a manual option.

    My friend Nippon believes MB and then Toyota will be the first to bail out of three pedals. Only time will tell.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    MB will DEFINITELY be first. Are we taking bets?! ;-)

    As long as Nissan continues to offer sport variants of its cars (Sentra Spec V for instance), there will still be niche manual offerings from Nissan. Toyota OTOH, about to introduce the IS-F only with an 8-speed automatic, doesn't care a whit about the sport market, and will drop manuals as soon as it figures out a way to overcome the price disadvantage that comes from your cheapest models being automatic only when your competition has price leader manual models in the same segments.

    Toyota will be the first of the Japanese Big 3 to drop manuals, I remain convinced.

    As for Subaru, they DO offer manuals with their flat sixes in Japan, and I continue to hope that as they ramp up their offerings in the States in the next few years, they will bring the manual option at least to their Legacy Spec B, or whatever the sport Legacy is called. Of course, that is a very expensive sedan (around $35K?), so not exactly a leading light for the common man that wants a manual shift.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    I thought the Spec.B was manual-only, or are you talking about the regular Legacy GT?
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I think I am confused: is it the Spec B that has a flat six and SI-drive, and all that? Or does that model have the turbo 4?

    I believe this year's Legacy GT has the turbo 4, right? And you can get it with a manual, right? With the Forester XT manual going away, I am afraid the manual will leave the Outback and Legacy turbos next. :-(

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The spec.B, as Subaru calls it, has the turbo 4. The B stands for Bilstein, for the shocks it comes with.

    The H6 model is the Legacy 3.0R Limited and only comes with an automatic. Sad, because other markets do get a manual with the H6.
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    I believe that the Legecy GT wagon (which is the one that I like) is now automatic only. :mad: :cry:

    james
  • bristol2bristol2 Member Posts: 736
    There aren't any Legacy wagons anymore, they are all Legacy sedans or Outback wagons.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    OK, I had it right. It is the H-6 model from the Japanese market that I wish they would sell here with the manual, as they do there.

    The turbo 4 model Spec B is nice, although at $35K I am thinking I can get a car with the same handling and power but a much nicer interior from Audi and maybe a couple of others...

    And Audi is still offering the stick in the fast trims of the A4, yes? What about the Quattro trims? Can I still get a stick shift, AWD, turbo 4, A4 today? I think I can. Can I get it for $35K? That part I am not sure of, but I think it must be the right ballpark.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,440
    Audi..

    Yes..A4. 2.0 Turbo, stick, Quattro.. $35K..

    A3? No Quattro with 2.0 Turbo..

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  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    There is one advantage Subaru offers over Audi. You don't need to adopt the Mechanic with a Subaru. Audi repairs might not happen any more often but when they do the mechanic can take the whole family back to Germany.
  • razorasdfrazorasdf Member Posts: 61
    Volkswagen and Audi are pretty good in terms of offering manuals right now. Audi has a large supply of TT, A3, A4, S4, RS4, A5, S5, RS6, and R8 cars with manuals on the lots. Well, 'cept for the last one - good luck finding and buying one off any lot anywhere. ;) Cars such as the S5, RS4, and RS6 are manual only, and the S5 won't be getting an automatic until the next model year, if I'm not mistaken. As far as I know, quattro is standard on a lot of the above cars.

    Volkswagen also has manuals throughout their range. The new Tiguan SUV will have it, including a neat feature that limits the revs to 3K or something when floored in rock climbing mode so you can focus on clutching your way out of a bind. My GTI has a really nice 6 speed (not that I have much to compare it to...), and I've noticed that a larger than normal percentage of VW and Audi drivers have sticks. Many are "defecting" over to the DSG, however.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Road & Track did a comparo a while back and the Legacy spec.B took on Audi, BMW, Infiniti, and others and actually ran the quickest laps. In objective measures it won just about every single performance test.

    They picked the A4 as the winner cost-no-object, but the Subaru won when they factored in pricing.

    Since then, Subaru has made significant improvements, too. They added a 6 speed, to replace a 5 speed manual, and added a Torsen rear limited-slip diff. I can't imagine that would hurt it.

    It holds its own even in that territory.
  • razorasdfrazorasdf Member Posts: 61
    Well, Mercedes DID just reintroduce sticks on the C-class in the US market... But yeah, AMG is not a big fan. They like beefy automatics.

    Toyota doesn't really offer sticks outside of the Scion brand. Scion has a TON of sticks on all of the lots I've seen - I'd venture and say up to 30%-40% of the cars on the lots I've seen over a year are manuals. Yes, the Corolla and Matrix have them, but Toyota seems to hate manuals regardless. Lexus is a good idea of the direction they want to take.

    Can't think of too many (Daimler)Chrysler cars left with manuals. A few here and there... Same with GM. I think the domestics are more likely to drop manuals in the US market, just a tad before MB.
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