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since we want to go smaller (me smaller than her!), there may be some options that can be had in stick. So it will be interesting to see if I can convince her to go back.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I have a bias for RWD, but that doesn't mean a FWD car can't be enjoyable.. (See: VW GTI).
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I tried to teach my eldest daughter stick on the G20, but it was a total failure. I finally had to punt- sell the G20 and get a CRV for her and her sister. On the plus side neither of them can drive my '05 Mazda6.
Speaking of Mazda6, they too have eliminated stick on the upper trims. The last year for leather and stick was '09, so I'd be out of the market for anything newer.
That does ring a bell. My wife got a clean bill of health on her left leg yesterday after a 26 month healing process so she can shift again. Not sure that there's anything out there that would fit our needs that comes with a stick though.
Well, as someone else said, there are very capable FWD cars out there. At a Porsche autoX last year, I finished ahead of a great number of competitors in my GTI, regardless of class, including, among others, a Cayman, Cayman S, 911 Turbo, and Boxster S.
It is commonplace for experienced MINI S owners to stomp RWD sportscars at the autoX as well.
At the event before last, a non-Si Civic finished 11th overall in raw time out of 116 competitors. About a tenth of a second ahead of a heavily modified 500 hp Z28 driven by a national event champion.
I could go on and on.
Does the driver matter? Of course! It is the most important aspect. The course has an effect, too. But when you see such variety of drive wheels in top finishers at even national events, you can't help buy have respect for ALL fast cars.
Having said all of that, I am definitely a RWD fan. My 350Z was my favorite fun car. I also immensely enjoy taking my MR2 to the autocross, even though my GTI will spank it, the MR2 is more entertaining. There is also something to be said for AWD. My G35X was very capable on a road course. But, when it comes down to it, you have to experience a car before you can write it off based on specs alone. That, my friend, is what I think an enthusiast should do.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
actually, on her car, I don't care much either, since I normally only drive it when we are travelling (or I have to tote something large), and then the AT is fine.
The bigger test will be when (if?) I finally replace my Accord!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Define "AWD"...
There is F/awd and R/awd, and within that F/awd term there are a myriad of implementations, the Sh-AWD system being the most functional, head and shoulders above any other F/awd system.
Well, first of all the challenge I offered was against ANY FWD car and me in an equivalent RWD.
And I would NEVER choose the Corvette for my "equivalent", just forefit the race (wouldn't be causght dead...). Like the Viper, the Corvette is too much about "big iron".
Has a Corvette ever won or even placed at the 24 hours of Daytona..?
Put a modern day V6 of say, 300HP, in a vette with T-tops and I'm in line.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The coupes appeal to a more "sporty" crowd and the sticks although still poor sellers, do sell a bit better than in the sedans. If sales go downhill on these, they will probably drop tjhem as well. As it is, very few are sold.
In one of my former lives, I was one of the people who had to make decisions that we knew would make a few people unhappy. Just a business decision that big companies have to make everyday.
As slow as the V-6 coupe manuals were selling, for some reason, Honda decided to produce V-6 manual sedans for a couple of years.
Our store, which was the highest volume Honda Dealer in nine states, got stuck with two of them. One sat almost a year before it sold and, thankfully, another one was dealer traded. They were a dismal flop!
Granted, as you know, Seattle had horrible traffic and lots of hills so they may have sold a bit better in other parts of the country. Still, not enough to keep making them.
I understand the lack of sales. I just think it is a shame because Honda makes such a smooth manual transmission.
As a fan of the I4, I don't care what they do to the V6.
I just wish Lexus would license/adopt the SH-AWD system for the next model series of the RX.
A torsen is great on a dry track. Torque Sensing diffs have a bias ratio, e.g. 2 to 1 means it can send 67% of power to the axle with more grip and 33% to the other.
But in cases were you have zero traction, 2 times zero is zero, a torsen fails completely and acts like an open differential. Search and you'll find lots of videos of Audis failing to climb ramps simulating ice on a single axle.
Modern traction/stability control compensate somewhat.
BMW and Acura host comparisons and specifically choose Audi to exploit this behavior and make their AWD systems look good.
A frictionless surface?
The only place I've ever witnessed that, was in Physics class... and, that was just in theory.. :surprise:
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Even with a rear LSD, MECHANICAL LSD, it doesn't seem possible.
But I suppose that there are times when all of us must rely on our fairy god-mother.
On a POOR traction surface, skating rink like, I would choose R/awd FIRST.
So, the Audi can send 33% of the engine torque to the rear driveline, absent a mechanical rear LSD just what good is that...?
"..Modern traction/stability control compensate somewhat..."
Not on you life...
Traction control activation ALWAYS involves simultaneous engine dethrottling, QUICKLY crippling any advantage gained via TC wheel braking to alleviate individual wheelspin/slip. Most certainly so on a FWD or F/awd vehicle wherein there is always a serious threat to life and limb via sudden loss of directional control.
That's why most F/awd(***) TC systems have a manual disable switch, so the driver can fall back on the old tried and true system to get unstuck, Lots of wheelspin often accompanied by a cloud of rubber smoke.
*** Not applicable to FWD only, those are far too squirrelly to be trusted with TC disabled.
That's almost any car with traction control.... RWD, FWD or AWD... It's to keep the traction control from inhibiting wheelspin... which you need a little of, to get out of deep snow..
It has nothing to do with FWD or AWD..
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The FWD minivan did just fine.
It's the tires.
"..it's the tires..."
No, it's the tire CHAINS...!
At least for me.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I don't think its fair to consider it despicable either, just not my thing, but in general, as a 3 time Accord owner, I think Hondas are no longer my thing.
The coupes appeal to a more "sporty" crowd and the sticks although still poor sellers, do sell a bit better than in the sedans
This surprises me. Most of the Civic coups and Scion TCs (and recent Mitsubishi Eclipses) around here seem to be driven by slightly larger middle aged women or asian college girls/boys. I don't see manuals to be a big seller to either segment.
I think something more telling is when I was autocrossing a lot in the early-mid 90s, the place was dominated by Civics. Now the Civics (and Accords, including mine) I see at the autocrosses are parked in the "support vehicle" area while the enthusiasts drive something sportier.
Honda lost its mojo. Isell, you picked a good time to walk away.
And it's common to have ice on one side of the road (usually closer to the curb) or a patch that one axle has to deal with at a time.
And you usually don't have all 4 tires on that ice, just 1 or 2. So it's up to the AWD/diffs/traction control to shift power.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvqQuC_8VrM&playnext=1&list=PL14BC4A4D6C152735
BMW likes to target Audi because they fail to climb this type of ramp, simulating black ice on one axle at a time. I think side-to-side also.
I've seen several Subarus climb that type of ramp (Tribeca, Legacy GT), and I think SH-AWD can do it also.
Haldex and Torsens have failed, at least the ones I've seen. VW, Audi, Lexus, and Honda.
I've seen Mercedes, BMW, and Subaru manage.
Symmetrical AWD...Nice marketing term.
I like the old Greyhound Buslines term, "leave the driving to US..!"
As "spoken" by the rear wheels/tires.
Dedicate the ENTIRE front tire traction co-efficient to lateral/directional control. If the remaining traction at the rear(***) does not get you up and going then so be it, in the end you'll be better off that way.
Or use tire chains to temporarily increase the rear traction level, but don't forget the front might need more traction also.
Tuner, ME..??
My '01 Porsche C4 remains BONE stock as does my '88 Carrera, and also my '78 Targa.
Well, to be perfectly fair, the catalyst honeycomb structure in the '78 went bye-bye, of its own doing, some years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKF625QsCGM
Note halfway through when they turn off the lock mode. This is similar to Subaru's system which is on all the time - essentially full-time 4WD. Turning it off results in performance like you see in most AWD systems, which is to say, pretty near useless.
Ie - brand or type isn't the big deal. It's if it has a diff lock mode or not. 90%+ of all AWD systems don't. Subaru and a couple of others leave theirs on all the time(though the transfer case/transmission is of course much more complex as a result), so they manage just fine.
In fact, here's what a real 4x4 with locked diffs will do for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvwTEF76dTo&NR=1
Though, notice how much harder a time of it the new Wrangler has over the older types with a manual transmission.
It's nice to see some American technology being used halfway around the world
Note - my friend's current generation 4Runner will do exactly this sort of thing just as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bSQtyO0VR8&NR=1
Don't try this in your BMW, folks
It is pure marketing, especially when Subaru applies it to 4 distinct systems (viscous couplings, auto AWD, VDC AWD, and the STI's system).
But Subaru demonstrates that they all work:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4999142340359932162#
Legacy does it at 3:00.
Tribeca does it at 4:30.
Base Forester does it, but it may be in another video. Though the test for the Forester showed front to back power shift, not side to side. At the time, the Forester had no traction control.
That VW Passat has 4Motion, but that's really Audi's Quattro torsen-based system underneath, and it fails just like it does in BMW tests, and also just like it does in tests I've seen at Mercedes-Benz events.
Funny that they all seem to target Audi/VW.
Real 4x4 with locked diffs rule, but they can't be used on dry pavement, else a U-turn would try to rip the tires off the wheels.
That said, my friend's 4Runner will literally run circles around a stuck Patriot. If you live where there's a lot of snow and mud, you really need a real SUV. My only gripe is that they don't sell them with manual transmissions any more. Though, you can get a Tacoma with manual, which is almost the same inside if you get the extended cab.
The "symmetrical" terminology strictly applies to the location of the differentials from side-to-side on the vehicle. It is symmetrical because each half-shaft is the same length from wheel to differential. It doesn't have anything to do with the torque split front-to-rear or the presence of locking differentials or VDC. So, it is a little more than strictly marketing, as it does affect weight balance and torque distribution.
I prefer FWD most of the time. And a 5 speed (not impressed with the one or two six speed MTs I've driven). And give me rear drum brakes too please. Basic, cheap and good in most all conditions. Just throw in a heated seat option. :shades:
Early stuff is on virgin snow overlying, most probably, a gravel roadbed. Tire tread was resting on the gravel, penetrating the soft snow base.
Anything beyond ~20 seconds clearly justified tire chains, probably on all 4.
Big deal....NOT...!
Highly, HIGHLY tractive surface(s)...
Plus "sports" off-roading, not exactly of interest to most "AWD" purchasers who buy only, mostly, for survival on slippery surfaces.
Having a manual gave good/direct control of the rpms, and that really pays off in deep snow. Easy to rock back and forth to get out of a rut, too.
They felt different, too.
The 98 had a viscous coupling, so when I hit the gas in a corner, the rear wheels would break loose first (less weight on them, I suppose, power split defaults to 50/50). Then the tail would get loose, but the AWD would shift power to the front just in time, and the front wheels would pull you out of the skid. It would cycle again, and you could get the dog to wag the tail back and forth, in a controllable way. It was such a hoot to drive. I should never have sold that car.
Our 2009 Forester is also good in the snow, but just tends to understeer, no tail wagging. It's an automatic so much less control, it'll shift when you don't want it to, for instance. There is a manual mode, at least.
My Toyota Sienna is awful. Traction control kicks in too early, halts momentum, and then kills engine power, so you really just go nowhere at all. To be fair it's FWD, not the AWD model. But Toyota's AWD is mostly FWD anyway.
Completely false, FALSIFIED...
Note that the Subbie driver uses, finally, forward momentum to get over the 4 roller test. Absent the use of forward mometum there is NO "AWD" system that can climb a ramp with all four wheels slipping. The driver's of the competing cars, if allowed, could have accomplished the very same thing.