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Toyota on the mend?

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Comments

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,304
    BMW got smart and stopped accomodating those mooches who were only there to drive the cars, eat the food, and had no intentions of buying.
    Now they have the 'Resort Tour'. Stay at a certain Ritz-Carleton hotels and you can take one out for a few hours.
    If you are in Charlotte and stay at the R-C, my kid will show you how the iDrive works. ;)
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Why not do another Edmunds Live?

    I'm game - just don't tear the tranny out of my 11 year old minivan when you put it through the paces please. ;)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,304
    What is 'Edmunds Live'?
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Over a decade ago, Edmunds sponsored a few events where you could show up and test drive some new cars.

    None were close to me so all I got was a left-over T-Shirt. :shades:
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    Well at least you got a t-shirt......

    I did once get an Edmunds.com baseball hat about 10 years ago from a contest that got me into the New York Auto Show that year. That was a heap big fun event.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    How can they tell who the mooches are, though?

    I went to Zoom Zoom Live, a Mazda event at FedEx Field, and ended up with a new Miata in my driveway. :shades:

    You never know...my wife has been to a couple of those events and added some cars to her short list as well.

    BMW did the Susan G. Komen thingy where they donated money per mile of test drives for breast cancer research and I drove every single model they had in the lot.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Thankfully the GS hybrid came out subdued:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/12/lexus-debuts-gs450h-ahead-of-frankfurt/

    fintail will try to contain his excitement now. ;)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    LOL, 6 headlights, 2 more and it will be a Truckster. I don't know if I have a case of a Mondays or what, but those images which look very electronically retouched if not pure cgi make me tired.

    4WS is always fun, anyway.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,905
    I think I said it before, but that extra kink in the grill is not needed. It makes the grill look like an angular hour-glass. It's not a terrible looking car, but just OK for me.

    I just don't see that model ever being a volume leader for Lexus in that segment. I am also tiring of these "because we can" hybrids.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,304
    edited September 2011
    How can they tell who the mooches are, though?

    Easy, they change the type of event. That way they end up with more upscale mooches. :)

    So, has Toyota ever had a similar event? I might go if they have an LFA available.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It does look 'chopped. I bet the photo was taken with a car of a different color.

    4WS can be neat. I think they always have trouble packaging it so that it's light and affordable.

    A while back I remember Preludes had that, my roommate's girl friend owned one.

    Then Mazda tried with the MX-6, IIRC.

    GM pickups tried most recently, but cancelled after they found few takers. It would sure make U-turns less frightening.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    that extra kink in the grill is not needed

    They call it a "spindle" and my guess is it will become Lexus' signature.

    The CT has a hint of the same thing, though more subtle.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2011
    They should just buy the mailing list from Yachting Monthly. :D

    Events, let's see...

    Toyota had Taste of Lexus a few years ago. It was among the best to make direct comparisons because they had the best variety of brands to drive.

    GM has a tour each year. I was hoping to go this year but had a conflict. Bummer.

    BMW has an "Ultimate Driving Event" every once in a while. They usually go up against Benz, Lexus, and Audi. Oddly never Infiniti.

    I forget what Benz called theirs. Haven't been invited in a while. Maybe fintail ratted me out. ;)

    Audi had an amazing event at Summit Point race track. That was an absolute hoot, taking a Q7 on the banking of the carousel was something else...

    You could pay and take a hell ride in an R8, but I passed. Did get to sit in one.

    Subaru hosts events too, maybe when the BRZ launches they'll do another.

    Volvo had a "Fire and Ice" event when they started promoting their AWD. Not sure how I got invited, but I've always been an AWD fan (Subaru and Quattro) so that was no surprise.

    Mazda had the "Zoom Zoom Live", but that was a while ago. RX8 was fun to spin around their little autocross. Lines were brutal, though.

    Toyota had the Prius launch at (where else?) Whole Foods. That was just a walk-in event. Pay your $80 bucks for 6 things and test drive a hybrid.

    To be honest the well has gone dry. I think the auto market took a nose dive, from 17M sales to what, 11 or 12? So there just isn't that sort of money for marketing to play with.

    A buddy of mine is a BMW CCA member and he just went to the Baltimore F1 Grand Prix and they got to sit in an Aventador. Pretty sweet.

    If Toyota ever did bring an LFA my guess is you'd only get to ride as a passenger, though that's status quo. Benz does that for AMG, too.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Wonder if these will be going for electric records on the 'ring?

    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/14/audi-shows-off-near-production-r8-e-tron-prot- otype/

    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/14/brabus-reveals-prototype-high-performance-4wd- -full-electric-e-cl/

    And in the economy class:

    http://green.autoblog.com/2011/05/31/report-bmw-i3-to-bow-at-2011-frankfurt-moto- r-show/
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    6 headlights

    How about 14 of them? :D

    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/12/gordon-murray-and-toray-unveil-electric-t-wav- e-ar1-concept/

    GS is tame, even handsome, compared to the some of the stuff being shown at Frankfurt.

    Good things these gull wings distract you from the front and rear of this Benz:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/13/mercedes-benz-f-125-f125-frankfurt-video/

    I'm not diggin' the blunt noses, I guess a nod to euro pedestrian crash standards? They make the headlights look droopy.

    Same with the new B-class:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/14/2012-mercedes-b-class-frankfurt-2011/

    I liked the old one a lot better. This one seems depressed.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Funny episode pits Camry vs. Ferrari 308 and Sienna vs. DeLorean:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLD-ibf7l6k&feature=player_embedded

    I like it when Dan Neil says his hand fell asleep. :D
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    GS, handsome? I don't know if many will line up for agreement on that with its alien mouth and weird lights. It's tame compared to wackjob attention-whore show concepts that will never see the light of day, of course. Maybe too tame, still looking like a simple facelift in many ways. It had better drive just amazingly well, or the competition will eat its lunch.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I do think it looks good overall, FWIW. Seems like everybody tried to copy Audi's mouth-agape look (VW, Mitsubishi), but Lexus finally did something unique, and without an ugly grille like Acura's.

    That B-class is production ready.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Toyota says N.A. output back to normal after quake

    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110913/OEM/110919921/1491#i- xzz1Xxj4CShT
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    It looks like Lexus is somewhat copying it too, just with a little kink to distract. Makes sense that VW would be in on it anyway, but the big mouth bass look really doesn't work on most cars, especially bland everyday commuter rigs.

    Yeah, the B class isn't a concept. Just a new one with the corporate nose. We'll likely never see it unless we move to Canuckistan anyway.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I never got why Audi let VW do that ... you try to create a corporate look, and then the budget lil' brother steals it?

    Even the Audi A2 gets the mouth - albeit capped off:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/13/audi-a2-concept-frankfurt-2011/

    IMHO Benz should bring the B- here. Phase out the Smart ForTwo and sell that instead, perhaps even in the same showrooms.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    They share some blood and likely some styling management. Perhaps hopes that buyers will work up from VW to Audi over time.

    Thing about the B is that it is pricey, almost C money and can be loaded up just as much. That and it being a hatch might make it a tough sell here.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Premium hatches are (finally) making it here, though.

    5 years ago the sedan cost more than the 5 door hatch. Now it's the other way around. Not only that, the hatches are usually higher level models exclusively.

    Americans have slowly warmed to the idea. Even the CT is clobbering HS sales.

    Bring a loss leader at $29,999.99 and I think it would be well received.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    everybody tried to copy Audi's mouth-agape look

    I consider that a mistake. The Audi front end is what turns me off on buying one. Thankfully VW went back to a very clean styling. The Audi had that look and it was great. Sometimes what comes out of these automakers just does not make sense. By the way the GS posted is hideous to me. Looks like a cartoon character. Maybe I am getting too old to appreciate most of the automotive styling. Talked to a guy today with a Sequoia Limited just like mine. He has 150k miles on his and loves it. When he offered to buy his wife the new version she turned him down. We agreed Toyota has gone butt ugly on SUV and Truck styling. I guess I will drop a grand for a new set of Michelin LTX-MS/2s on the Sequoia. It is roomy and I just got my best tank of gas ever at 20.45 MPG over 302 miles of mountain driving. That was on Nevada Costco gas.

    If Audi would bring this model with diesel to the USA, I would pay MSRP, CASH for it. My favorite Audi of all time.

    image
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    I know elsewhere you can load up a B to nearly 50K...that would never fly here. There's premium hatch, and then there's premium car.

    I think anything would clobber HS sales, save for maybe the GS which I think has sold about 12 units this year :shades:

    Sell the B at 29K - keep it below the psychologically significant 30K, and sell it fairly loaded - nav and other gadgets - and it would sell indeed. Offer a diesel too, to compete with the CT and others.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I cannot imagine someone buying the CT over an A3 TDI. I don't think the CT has anything going for it that compares except EPA city rating. Which is dubious at best. No way the CT will handle, brake or accelerate with the A3. And I cannot believe anyone is getting 50 MPG on the highway with the CT, as many A3 owners are getting. Plus you can get 4 people in the A3 of normal size. No way with the CT. It is purely a feel good car for the green Lexus fan boys.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    I think they sell to completely different target markets anyway. Lexus people in general shy away from acceleration, braking, handling. A3 is a premium sporty hatch, CT is a premium hybrid. I don't think they are apples to apples.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    2012 Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid returns 112 MPGe

    14.3 miles on a charge isn't much but the 1.5 hour re-charge time is a plus...
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    They are not really apples to apples. However anyone looking for a $30k luxury hatch that gets better than average mileage should check them both out. I cannot imagine the CT winning on any level in head to head match up with the A3 TDI.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    It might in dealer coddling, servicing costs, and is probably smoother and quieter anyway - the latter will win buyers here.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    We should keep in mind the A3 has aged quite a bit, the GTI is much newer. It may be losing sales to loaded veedubs.

    Still, given supply constraints, Lexus seems to have a popular entry model. Keep 'em happy and they'll buy pricier Lexus models next go 'round.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That would work well for city dwellers. My commute is 13 miles and I'm in the 'burbs, even.

    I'll stick with my Miata, though...life is short, gotta enjoy the ride.

    Still, MPGe beats the Volt (if your commute is 14.3 miles or less) and of course the gas engine easily beats the Volt's iron block + massive battery pack boat anchor.

    One interesting thing is that we just opened a new bldg and it has "green" parking spots with charging stations. With a 1.5 hour charge that means you could go back and forth if the commute was up to 14.3 miles each way.

    I actually think it will do pretty well. Leaf gives people range anxiety, and Volt costs more even with the credit. Plus the Volt would only be more efficient if your commute is more than 14 miles but less than 35 miles:

    http://www.chevrolet.com/volt/
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2011
    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/16/toyota-plug-in-prius-priced-at-32-000-prius-v- - -starts-at-26-40/

    Higher than expected.

    Prius V came in lower than I expected.

    Strange...

    Edit: I didn't realize it, but the Prius qualifies for a $2500 federal tax credit.

    So it keeps the $3500 price edge over the Volt after all.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,304
    Pretty much all that stuff you mention is in the past.
    The marketing is more selective now.
    Certain brands are selling more now than ever in the US.
    Charity events are kind of a marketing exception.
    Good that you enjoyed all those test drives.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,304
    Ford has top of the line Focus models that sticker over 27k.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If it is like the Gen 2 Prius release back in 2003, the base model plugins will be in short supply and heavily gouged. I would not bank on that tax credit either. The Prius claims 4.4 KWH battery. Not enough to get the minimum $2500 tax credit. Did Toyota screw up?

    For vehicles acquired after December 31, 2009, the credit is equal to $2,500 plus, for a vehicle which draws propulsion energy from a battery with at least 5 kilowatt hours of capacity, $417, plus an additional $417 for each kilowatt hour of battery capacity in excess of 5 kilowatt hours. The total amount of the credit allowed for a vehicle is limited to $7,500.

    http://www.irs.gov/businesses/article/0,,id=214841,00.html
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    I kind of like that Prius V. That could work.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I do too, but my wife thinks she still likes the, er, Prius II better. Confusing naming convention Toyota has going on there.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I agree, V looks like "Five".

    Base price is a good 4-5 grand higher, though.

    Maybe that's what the V stands for. :D
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    $27k for the II vs $30k for the V, according to her. I didn't check. Makes my wallet hurt just thinking about the van finally dying. ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Did Toyota screw up?

    If so that's a BIG screw up. It would fail at that price.

    Volt is struggling.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Base price for the V is $4280 higher, comparing Autoblog's price with Edmunds for the Prius I.

    I'm sure it varies with equipment levels, as the more expensive models tend to come with more features that are extra-cost on the cheaper Prius.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited September 2011
    All I asked for were heated seats. :-)

    She was looking at the Inside Line app on her iPad, so blame Apple.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Those should be mandatory on EVs and the plug-in Prius, because it'll take a while before the coolant is warm.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I presume an EV would use electric heat since there won't be any coolant??
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yes, and that uses up a lot of battery. That's why they have smart phone apps that can get your cabin temps up before you leave.

    Sort of like remote start, but remote cabin heat, before you leave.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited September 2011
    I think my wife was trying to ease me into the idea slowly. Yikes, you can pay $40,285 for the "uplevel Prius Plug-in Hybrid Advanced".

    2012 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid, Prius V Priced (Inside Line)

    image
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    For reference, I used the Volt configurator and got a loaded one up to $44,194.

    You'd have to be crazy to buy either for that much. These are economy cars, after all, beyond the electric wizardry.

    Plug-in Prius doesn't make much sense beyond the base price with that credit, if it's eligible.

    Reminds me of Escape Hybrid pricing. The interior doesn't raise eye brows at the $16,999 rental fleet special pricing, but the hybrid breaks $30 grand and then it's just plain out of it's league when it comes to interiors.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    This is very interesting. We have a conflict between Federal Agencies on what qualifies as a Plug in Hybrid for tax credits. I wonder if Toyota asked the EPA and not the IRS.

    From Fuel Economy website:
    It must be propelled to a significant extent by an electric motor which draws electricity from a battery which

    has a capacity of not less than 4 kilowatt hours and
    is capable of being recharged from an external source of electricity.

    From the IRS:

    Qualified Plug-In Electric Drive Motor Vehicles (IRC 30D)

    Internal Revenue Code Section 30D provides a credit for Qualified Plug-in Electric Drive Motor Vehicles including passenger vehicles and light trucks. For vehicles acquired after 12/31/2009, the credit is equal to $2,500 plus, for a vehicle which draws propulsion energy from a battery with at least 5 kilowatt hours of capacity, $417, plus an additional $417 for each kilowatt hour of battery capacity in excess of 5 kilowatt hours. The total amount of the credit allowed for a vehicle is limited to $7,500.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Motor Trend assembled a bunch of super cars for a 1/4 mile drag race. Lexus LFA placed 5th. See video for the fastest. It is a Japanese sports car.

    http://www.wimp.com/dragrace/
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