Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    The sales guys on here won't ever admit this but I have inside info. that 100% of the doc fee goes directly to the salesperson who handled the deal as sort of a spiff !! :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,425
    "...I had to do the work of forms..."

    When I purchased, right on the form it said that if I didn't want to pay the $45 doc I could do all the paperwork myself and they would drop it. For $45 I couldn't be bothered but for $120 or even $599....well.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    I really am beginning to have doubts about the whole story.

    You're not the only one, I am to. The fact that getting specific details is like finding hens teeth makes me start to question this story.


    The only thing I am getting from the story is that they are different VIN numbers and different milage.... I believe because I haven't heard other wise that it is the same truck. I believe the OP is just weary of dealers and feels taken becasue it wasn't disclosed up front that it is the same vehicle that they drove. Which should have been mentioned, than if thathappened we wouldn't have anything to talk about :surprise:

    GP
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    ...what the bmw guy is really thinking.

    The BMW guy is thinking ...... Geez look at this Cheapskate :P

    GP
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    or maybe it was that they drove the truck 150 miles and had second thoughts about the purchase

    That is what I am thinking !!!!!

    GP
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,639
    Why couldn't they just use the handle inside.

    I don't know for sure......Maybe Joel or a Focus owner could answer. I do know they couldn't raise the button because it was so small.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    but I have inside info. that 100% of the doc fee goes directly to the salesperson who handled the deal as sort of a spiff. !!

    If that was true I am owed money on thousands of deals. It is dealer profit, not the sales department's or a salesman spiff. If there is a dealer where it is let me know, I would not mind working there.
  • nvreadernvreader Member Posts: 11
    Thank You for a great story :)
  • nvreadernvreader Member Posts: 11
    I know this will be an old story, but need some advice...

    I have a '06 Dodge Caravan (former rental car I bought 4/07) w/25k on the odo.
    it now has 85k and I owe approx 18k,having had to defer a few payments,I looked it up and it's worth less than the KBB "excelent condition" price of $9010. because of a body repair. Do i have ANY options? Ths is my only car for my family.

    P.S. I won't be holding my breath
    Thank You
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    What options are you looking for?

    Do you want to get a new vehicle?
  • wesleygwesleyg Member Posts: 164
    see, jmonroe, you pulled me out of the bushes again, I read it all everyday as you know. To answer your question, pulling over multiple vehicles at the same time can and often is done by an experienced officer.

    There are two caveats that must be adhered to in accomplishing the feat. One, it has to be on a limited access road (read interstate) so that no offender can turn off on a street when he realizes whats about to happen to him. Two, you must always stop the first leading vehicle, get that vehicle stopped, then carefully and cautiously hand stop the other or other two vehicles as they approach.

    Although I've done it fairly often, I would only do this for serious violators, speed in excess of 20mph or greater, minor offenses are just not worth the risk. Also heavy traffic would make any sensible officer not even try it. Your first responsibility is to the motorists lawfully using the roadway and ensure their safety, that must come first. Back to the bushes.
  • nvreadernvreader Member Posts: 11
    I suppose, But seeing as i'm upside down and this finance co. does not refi and my credit is bad. I don't know what to do. :cry:
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Unfortunately, you have two options - 3 if you have GAP insurance. $$$$$ down, drive it until the loan is satisfied or with GAP, do you live near a cliff? Just kidding on the last option.
  • nvreadernvreader Member Posts: 11
    Doesn't GAP ins. only cover when the car is totaled?,As I do have that.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Yup - I was just kidding about living near a cliff - that would be insurance fraud.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Hahahah, lrguy is kidding of course.

    I have heard of people that will steal and torch your vehicle for you. That could be an option. ;)

    Just kidding, I'm kidding.... that would also be insurance fraud.

    You need to stay in the vehicle. You're buried with bad credit. Nothing to do but ride it out. Sorry bud.
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    The engine size is different, that's the major issue. The minor options we could live with.
    Didn't see the post were the engine size is different..... Make the dealer eat the car and get you the roght one or just give completely back.....

    GP
  • nvreadernvreader Member Posts: 11
    Yesss, that would be insurance fraud. Don't feel like doing time in the pen.

    Thank you anyways for the help all.
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    The one thing that makes me cringe, is when they tell you that the state mandates the fee, and they have to charge it.

    THe correct wording should be it is charged to everyone in order to be "Compliant" You can't charge one person a DOC fee and not another.... make sense... If you do that you open your self up for a law suit and everyone is entitled to their $250 back in a court of law. Once you do perform a way of business you have to perform the same level of business to everyone :sick:

    GP
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    There have been more doc fee rants here than I have experience

    ROTFLMAO....... You are so correct LR

    It is what it is....

    GP
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    If I were a sales person I would hate the doc fee more than the customer does since, if I remember correctly, it takes away from your commission

    It doesn't affect a sales person commision..... Chances are if you are not going to pay for a DOC fee, you are probably stealing the car anyway. so the sales mans commision will be a mini anyway....LOL

    GP
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    but I have inside info. that 100% of the doc fee goes directly to the salesperson who handled the deal as sort of a spiff. !!

    If that was true I am owed money on thousands of deals. It is dealer profit, not the sales department's or a salesman spiff. If there is a dealer where it is let me know, I would not mind working there.


    OMG.... i missed that post.... now that is funny. I also wish I got the doc fee for every vehicle I sold...... Man us sales guys must be making millions a year :surprise:

    GP
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    Having read Babecat's posts, and the corresponding responses, I do find the entangled and confusing situation interesting. If not valid in nature, it is no less entertaining. Good entertainment is not often easy to find. Though I most certainly sympathize with the plight of the consumer, I am beginning to concur with the opinions of Irguy, GG, and GP. There are a number of loops and caverns scattered throughout the translation that beg for clarification. I note these as follows:

    1. An attorney who is at a loss to provide advice? I've never met one who would admit to such a lack of legal knowledge. If this is true, I would be on the quest for another law firm.
    2. A banking institution at this particular time in our nation's history who doesn't want to uncover what has transpired? The bank has a regular customer who is in dire need of assistance, and a local dealership with whom business needs to be done. It doesn't seem plausible that the bank is displaying a lack of interest.
    3. A dealership who, if knowingly made a serious error, is not interested in getting the correct vehicle to the owner? Their reputation is at stake, and their records are in danger of incorrect entries subject to an audit. One would ponder how the owner of the dealership feels about the episode, if he even is aware of the transaction.
    4. A poster who gives out tid bits of information as we progress through this saga? While I don't want to judge her too harshly, her occasional comments are vague in clarifying the actual steps in this stream of actions to rectify the problem. It would have been more pleasing to the thought processes if she had told the story in a chronological sequence of events, steps, and actions. The experts here, not including myself, could then have offered better advice and more choices to her.
    5. If this is an actual account of a consumer in distress, I would then agree with GG's advice. She needs to cease driving the truck and return it to the dealer immediately. As some may recall, I purchased a vehicle in 2007 which was void of the payoff for the trade on the contract papers. My attorney's first piece of advice was to return the automobile to the dealer immediately. You simply should not drive a vehicle whose ownership is in question.

    If Babecat is authentic, I wish her well in dealing with this unfortunate experience. If not, we thank you for an entertaining few days.

    Richard
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,425
    "...it now has 85K and I owe aprox 18K..."

    Ouch! Man, your interest rate must be quite high. I would baby that van and maintain it like it was a Rolls Royce. I bet you can get 125-150K miles out of it before any major problems. Take particular care of the transmission, change the fluid every 30K miles or so (no matter what the manual says).

    I'd pay extra on that loan If I could. Get out from under that as soon as possible.

    As to the book value of your car, you would never get anywhere close to KBB excellent as a trade unless you pay MSRP for the new one.

    Good luck.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,967
    driver... Happy Canada Day.
    it must have been a different car than you remember. a focus has a toggle, for lack of a better description, next to the inside door handle toward the fron of the door.
    and there is no place to unlock the car from the outside on the passenger side.
    this is pretty common on entry level cars.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,593
    Thats a lot of tickets per hour, one would really need to pull over more than one at a time to get that rate.

    On a slightly related (and more off topic) note, every now and again as I leave work there is s state trooper brining in several boxes, I kid him that its all the tickets he wrote that afternoon.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Don't feel like doing time in the pen.

    It's not a crime unless you're caught. ;)

    Oh crap, now I'll be a part of this scheme. :cry:

    Nah, forget what I said. I ain't even in the biz, so you weren't talking to me any how.

    Yeah, just ride it out.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,593
    1. An attorney who is at a loss to provide advice? I've never met one who would admit to such a lack of legal knowledge. If this is true, I would be on the quest for another law firm.

    The thing is that the law is vast and complex. No lawyer is going to be well versed enough in all aspects of law to give enough advice on everything. Would you ask a real estate lawyer advice if you were charged for murder?

    That being said I do think that there is something fishy about this, why no details? What model of truck? what engine was supposed to be in it? what was given? What did the purchase order state?

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    "Lawyers, whose trade it is to question everything, yield nothing, and talk by the hour."

    Thomas Jefferson

    The idea that something is beyond a lawyer is a concept that I find difficult to accept that any lawyer believes....

    Where's Bob when we need him?
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    I just thought you guys could use a good laugh !!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    GP, I have heard that one a lot, but following your logic, if you have to charge everyone the same price for a doc fee, why don't you also have to charge everyone the same price for a car?

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,639
    and there is no place to unlock the car from the outside on the passenger side.

    Thanks Explorer for the Happy Canada Day. And a Happy upcoming July 4th to you and all our U.S. friends here.

    You could be right, I didn't actually see the car. All, I know is what they told me. He Drives a Lexus and she has a Honda CVX. He is a retired surgeon so he is a pretty bright guy. He said he has to open the passenger door with a key, before they get in the car because there is no remote, and the little pin button is too small to grasp.

    We probably need someone with a 2009 Focus to clarify. I am curious so I am going to see what I can find out. On NBC news they said Ford was tops in sales in the U.S. last month and is leading in sales so far this year...even beating Toyota.....and that is good news. On the other hand California and Pennsylvania are in deep bankrupcy.

    Happy Independence Day!

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,639
    THe correct wording should be it is charged to everyone in order to be "Compliant" You can't charge one person a DOC fee and not another.... make sense

    Now I get it! You have to rip every one off equally.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    you pulled me out of the bushes again…

    One, it has to be on a limited access road (read interstate) so that no offender can turn off on a street when he realizes whats about to happen to him. Two, you must always stop the first leading vehicle, get that vehicle stopped, then carefully and cautiously hand stop the other or other two vehicles as they approach.


    Thanks officer I hoped you’d clear this up.

    Back to the bushes.

    That must be a genes thing with you guys. :P

    Thanks again,

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    On the other hand California and Pennsylvania are in deep bankrupcy.

    Could that be why PA is trying to raise $9M via traffic citations? :mad:

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    Could that be why PA is trying to raise $9M via traffic citations?

    If it only were so simple for CA :cry:
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 269,346
    THe correct wording should be it is charged to everyone in order to be "Compliant" You can't charge one person a DOC fee and not another.... make sense... If you do that you open your self up for a law suit and everyone is entitled to their $250 back in a court of law. Once you do perform a way of business you have to perform the same level of business to everyone

    I'm sorry.. but, there is no legal basis for that, either... That doesn't mean that your dealership doesn't treat it that way.... but, plenty of dealers will drop the doc fee, if it means the deal is going away (plenty won't, as well).

    Now, if you discriminate on the basis of race, sex, creed, etc, etc, etc... then, it won't matter if it's doc fees or anything else, you'll have a problem.. But, the doc fee is just as negotiable as any other variable in the deal that isn't required by the state..

    Want to hear about the sales stories from Texas, where they tell every buyer that the state requires them to charge each buyer an inventory tax?

    Didn't think so... :blush:

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  • jwilliams2jwilliams2 Member Posts: 910
    My, haven't we beat this dead horse long enough? Yes, a dealer could be charged with discrimination, if the people they waive the doc fee for are one race, sex, creed, etc, and some minority's are charged. If I were a dealer, I wouldn't want to take that chance. I would simply charge everyone, and not risk a legal battle.

    At the dealership I used to work at, even the employees paid the doc fee! And the people who thought they were negotiating it away were simply getting the selling price reduced by that amount. (And yes, the salespeople hate doc fee's)

    Anyway, isn't there a seperate discussion on documentation fee's? Perhaps a kind host could steer folks towards it.
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    I was referring to a law firm---with experts in most fields. I didn't realize that she went to a single shingle mouth piece.

    Richard
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,593
    Yes, a dealer could be charged with discrimination, if the people they waive the doc fee for are one race, sex, creed, etc, and some minority's are charged.

    But a valid point was brought up. If they can be charged with discrimination for charging some minorities a doc fee when some of another race, sex or creed are not they could also be charged for discrimination for charging some minorities a higher price for a car than someone of another race, sex or creed.

    What makes the doc fee different from the sales price?

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Law suits have been initiated claiming the dealer did not offer an extended warranty or other F&I products. Hence, now a customer signs a form that proves the dealership offered and they declined. With the fear of class action, if you negotiate away the doc fee it will be deducted from the price of the car and still disclosed on the final paperwork. That is why many dealers have the fee preprinted on the forms. I have to pay it if I buy a car. The GM pays it.
    It goes along with the major class action several years ago that accused dealers and banks with charging higher rates to minorities. Rate increase must be only credit related. A dealer today has been sued for about everything you can imagine. That is why compliance is a key word to the industry.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    My guess is that it is just that, a fee. The car has a MSRP and has traditionally and expectantly been a negotiated item. However, a fee could be considered a discriminatory item if charged to some but not all.
  • jwilliams2jwilliams2 Member Posts: 910
    What makes the doc fee different from the sales price?

    I would guess because its a fee, unlike the car itself, which is merchandise. Some folks (Edmunds readers) do better at negotiating than others. Nothing discriminating about that. But perhaps you're right. Maybe the solution is for everyone to just pay MSRP. ;)
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    I could live with that - no fee - all cars sold at MSRP. Yup, great solution.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    isn't there a sep[a]rate discussion on documentation fee

    Here's one: Documentation Fees

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,639
    My guess is that it is just that, a fee.

    Just out of curiosity;

    1. what would your typical doc fee be?

    2. Is it the same for every model, a Sentra and a Maxima?

    3. What do you estimate are the real costs of preparing the paper work?

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,425
    "...Perhaps a kind host could steer folks towards it..."

    And perhaps some kind salesfolks could share a story or two so all us non-biz people don't go broke buying cars so we have stories to tell. :cry:

    It's getting very tiring holding up both the auto industry AND this board. :mad:

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,593
    3. What do you estimate are the real costs of preparing the paper work?

    $10-15 tops.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Careful what you wish for. If that was the case there would probably be no need for all you wily car salespeople. Minimum wage order takers would rule the day, like those single price dealers....if there are any of them left.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • dtezladtezla Member Posts: 88
    Yes - In each deal jacket we had the paperwork for the etch company. The prep people wrote whatever the etch code was on the paperwork & the FI guy would fill out the customer information at the time of sale. I guess technically the etch company wasn't informed of the etch until after the sale. As I said, it was done as a theft deterent. Perhaps just seeing the etching on all the glass was enough. Especially since the thief wouldn't know the paperwork hadn't been submitted.
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