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Comments
pre prom pic
Downtown Chicago is not cheap....very similar to staying in a nice part of NYC, LA or San Francisco.
Kind of sad, in my opinion.
North Carolina hangs on due to its tobacco history.
"They shouldn't even be posting!"
Add 10 years to the year that you graduated. Think about society at that time, and you'll have your answer.
Richard
It's the medical convention that week. They are all taking advantage of the situation. I would have kept the reservations at Hyatt Regency, but they didn't have a room for Saturday night of any kind. At least we'll only be there to shower and sleep. The manager said that it had been redone recently. Since GG has stayed there, I'm sure that it will be fine.
Snake, I know what you mean. For $500, I could have had a nice ocean front room at the beach for a three night weekend. Still, this is a special event for my sister and brother-in-law. We'll enjoy the trip. After all, how often do we get to Chicago?
Richard
Wine, women, and song---I thought that I covered it pretty well. I may have missed out on how to field strip a cigarette, but I did strip a few other things. :P
Richard
And you were probably a Southern gentleman when you did like please before you started and thank you when you finished.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Tyler Anderson/ National Post
In a ruling making the rounds of legal circles, Justice Joseph W. Quinn of St. Catharines eviscerates a used car dealer, saying his explanations were "incoherent twaddle" and "fell somewhere between a yarn and a fairy tale"
CommentsTwitterFacebookLinked InDiggRedditBuzzEmailAdrian Humphreys, National Post · Sunday, Jun. 6, 2010
In what appears to be an annual start-of-summer ritual, an Ontario judge has issued a decision annotated with amusing and scathing footnotes that, one suspects, reflect the dark, witty thoughts and secret exasperation judges sequester during court.
In a 27-page written ruling released last month, Justice Joseph W. Quinn of St. Catharines, eviscerates a used car dealer, calling the defendant "unblinkingly dishonest," adding: "I feel somewhat responsible for this as I must have done or said something during the trial that caused [him] to believe that I was dim-witted."
After listening to the car dealer, he concludes the court was "up to its sash in falsehoods."
"By the end of the trial, if [he] were to have testified that the world was round, I would immediately have sought membership in the Flat Earth Society."
But really, that was just the beginning.
"It definitely took me by surprise," said Norman Epstein, a Toronto lawyer who represented Gurnek Singh, the Brampton, car dealer who was the defendant in the case.
Local lawyers, however, are not so surprised -- although quite tickled--at the oft-times acerbic, sarcastic and hilarious passages of the ruling. Several times before, often around this time of year, Judge Quinn has issued similarly styled rulings that dispel wit as well as wisdom.
"I'm not surprised by it," said a local lawyer who did not wish to be named. "He is very bright and has a good wit about him. He's a good writer," the lawyer said.
Copies of the ruling, Pirbhai v. Singh et al, 2010 ONSC 2446, have started to make their way around legal circles by email.
"I look forward to them," said another lawyer. "He can certainly write an entertaining judgment," offered a third.
The problem under litigation in this case started much as Judge Quinn's ruling does: "A friend of a friend is not necessarily your friend."
Back in 1999, Kalimuddin Pirbhai, a St. Catharines doctor, wanted to buy a used luxury car and a friend said he had a friend who could get him a deal. Dr. Pirbhai contacted Mr. Singh, who owns both Sarwan Auto Sales and Brampton Auto Collision. Both of those companies, Judge Quinn writes, "loosely, very loosely, carries on the business that its name implies."
Dr. Pirbhai's relationship with Mr. Singh quickly declined after a string of broken promises, large financial demands and shoddy and unsafe repairs on a Lexus sedan.
"Ten years, and 31 days of trial, later, that transaction is finally completed. The plaintiff ended up with an expensive bargain," Judge Quinn writes.
The car delivered -- vastly over budget--was "something of an automotive Frankenstein," writes Judge Quinn. It "swayed, swerved, wobbled and emitted unusual noises."
The judge was singularly unimpressed by Mr. Singh. "He shows no aptitude for the truth; he is without a conscience; he is incorrigible," he writes in the introduction to his ruling, then annotating that passage with the first of 17 footnotes: "Singh should not be permitted to conduct any commercial business in the Province of Ontario that brings him into contact with members of the public."
Judge Quinn writes that one explanation by Mr. Singh was "incoherent twaddle," another "fell somewhere between a yarn and a fairy tale." Mr. Singh displayed an "unlimited capacity for fraud and deception" and practised "splendid skullduggery."
Judge Quinn calls him: "a devious man and an unbelievable witness who will do or say anything to advance his position. He was maddeningly unwilling to respond to the simplest of questions and often had to be asked the same question over and over (no doubt using the time gained to visit his pantry of untruthful answers.)"
After buying a badly damaged Lexus at an automobile auction for Dr. Pirbhai in 1999, Mr. Singh promised to fix it to "showroom condition" for another $5,000, court heard.
Mr. Singh overcharged for the original auction price by close to $6,000, overcharged on quoted repairs by more than $11,235, then released a car that needed another $15,565 to have someone else fix the "repairs" to make the car safe, court heard.
"It is not enough to describe his conduct in this regard as being negligent: it was fraudulent, and, grossly so," writes Judge Quinn.
He added that Mr. Singh's sloppy conduct meant the dealer could not shift personal liability onto his corporate entities, with the judge writing: "The corporate veil here was more of a bandit's mask."
Judge Quinn ordered Mr. Singh to pay $33,465.77 in addition to $50,000 in punitive damages.
The lawyers for Mr. Singh and Dr. Pirbhai declined to comment.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Richard
I'm not immune to writing tomes when I relay my car buying experiences here. But, this story really exceeded even what I could write.
To sum up, an unscrupulous car dealer ran into a guy who was as cheap as cheap could get (buying a wrecked car to fix up and perhaps save a nickel in the process). They agreed to do a deal. It cost more than the buyer anticipated. And, the dealer charged more than he probably should have.
That's about it, right?
Good comments GG.
*It was in Monday's paper and they do need to fill out a Monday newspaper.
*I could have condensed the story, but I was too lazy to do that today.
*The story wasn't the best, but at least it I thought it might be good to bring things around to the topic once in awhile.
*Don't get me wrong, I read all the emails and enjoy them. I am learning alot about Chicago and how to quit smoking etc. No problem, I just thought it was time to insert a sales story, even if a bit weak.
Someone might check out this sight and wonder what is going on!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Still, 235.00! I must REALLY be out of touch with reality!
Funny, in my humble neighborhood, you can always tell when someone has come into some money. Case in point, the family that lives directly across from me has about 1.5 acres of land behind their house. I always mentioned that they could put in a pool and a tennis court in that space, and still have land left over.
Well....while I didn't know the wife's parents, I did know she was an only child and that both parents had recently passed (Father in January, Mother in March). It's tragic that the wife lost her parents so close to one another. I guess the will was dispersed (the Father had been a retired president of a large local machine tool company). But, last week, here comes the excavators and the pool installation company.
Yesterday, the husband came over to show me his NEW Mercedes E 550 (REALLY nice car).
Yes, but can you now perform brain surgery or any other previously unimaginable feats as their TV commercials suggest?
Gogiboy
Well, it is a sales story! What a way to get an E 550! I am not sure what a respectable amount of time would be before rushing off to buy the E, but the Mother died in March, takes awhile to sort out the will, a bit of time to order the car.
My guess is they didn't wait too long.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Neighbors can be so funny. We just completed a new driveway, walkway, curbing, and lighting up the hill to our house. My neighbor across the street came over during the project. His first question was, "Who died?" I laughed and said, "When we get the new SUV, you'll want to know how much we got."
Driver mentioned a respectful waiting period to begin spending the money. At our age, you don't want to wait too long. :P
Richard
Richard
They used to wonder; by now they know.
Richard
Richard
So, I spent a few minutes in the Prices Paid Forums and much of my misgivings faded away. I do NOT miss the mooches!
Richard, I enjoyed your story.
I think I am a little depressed from seeing all that oil and seeing those poor creatures like Pelicans stunned and dying, and peoples livelihood and way of life destroyed. Added to that are people and countries ganging up on a little country that just wants to protect it's borders. Plus a little old lady news reporter 89 years old, who has so much hate she can't even contain her remarks in an interview.
We need more sales stories like yours to take our mind off of what is going on.
Thank you for making me smile today.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Hang in there isell. It takes time to adjust to retirement. You need a few activities during the week to keep you occupied. If you haven't had hobbies or interests it will take awhile. Once you get a routine and find some interests you will see that working if you don't have to is futile.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
link title
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
uhh, now you got me curious. What kind of candy bar was he eating? With the 0 APR... I bet it was a "Zero" candy bar. :sick:
Ford Motor Company put the MSRP on that car, not the dealer.
The MARKET will determine if it's worth that much. If a person doesn't like that price, they can just walk away or they can offer less.
My Gawd! 45,000 for a MUSTANG!!??
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
LOL! No, it was a Kit Kat. At least he didn't wear the white shoes and white belt. He had on a faded red polo shirt and green pants---to match the candy bar? I'll be nice and assume that it was his day off.
Richard
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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They have asked me to come back to work a couple of times. All I have to do is mention it to my wife. She gladly reminds me of many of the headaches that I had dealing with teachers, administrators, politics, bureaucracy, etc. The desire fades pretty quickly.
You'll be fine. Give it a year and see how you feel.
Richard
I built an actual top of the line AWD RX and it came in at $54,189 w/delivery.
Richard
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Richard
I'm guessing there is probably about a 2500-3500 profit in that car if it sells for MSRP.
And I have no idea how hot these cars are. If they are selling faster than the dealers can get them in, why discount them? Would you?
On the other hand if the are slow movers it'll take a deep discount to get someone to take one.
I still can't believe a 45,000 MSRP!
Using this Mustang as an example. Let's suppose the dealer's cost was 41,500.
Of course he wold love to sell it for MSRP and gross 3500.00 on it.
But, the market isn't strong at all so he advertises it for 43,000.
He has invested 41,500 in a product that he is hoping to make 1500.00.
Sound reasnoble?
Now, most people would still offere less. Not a problem and expected in this business. This doesn't make the shopper a mooch.
That term is applied to the shopper who just go's too far. They pull every trick in the book, spring their trade in's at the last minute etc.
Having said that, I don't think I used that term five times in my 14 years.
Big difference between a "Smart Shopper" and a person who go's too far.
Why is a dealer "stupid" for asking MSRP?
Does everything have to be discounted in order to sell?
Maybe that is the market on these. I don't know.
I do know I sure wouldn't want one that bad but others may?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
You can believe the sticker on the window.
This one is a V-8 loaded with what appears to be everything including NAVI.
45,000 seems nuts but they cojuld be selling well. Again, I have no idea.
For that car I don't know that it is.
I've certainly seen cars where it was stupid (IMO) to ask MSRP. In recent years most American cars and virtually all Korean cars fell into this category. Actually I suspect only a few models now would realistically fetch MSRP to anyone paying attention.
Remember when PT Cruisers first came out and they were fetching a premium? Now THAT was nuts!