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While I think the '04-'08 TL is the best generation of that model that Acura made, I don't think the term "classic" applies to any TL. Unfortunately, they'll eventually just become old used cars. I think they'll be relatively desirable old used cars, with a decent, but declining resale value.
Yeah, Mazdas seem to have many of the attributes that pre-'09 TL owners value.
Acura got that car so right, especially the TL-S.
"Acura's proposed rear-drive sedan and all-wheel-drive, V8 powered NSX replacement have gone from 'dead' to 'good and dead.' Late last year, Honda's CEO Takeo Fukui announced he had shelved plans for an all-wheel-drive next-generation NSX, a rear-drive platform for the RL, and a corporate V8 engine. His replacement as CEO, Takanobu Ito, has reiterated Honda's plans to concentrate on hybrid vehicles. 'I don't think we need a classic front-engine, rear-drive car,' Ito told a press conference. 'It would be meaningless to emulate what other companies have been doing for more than five decades.' "
While Honda has a history of doing things its own way, rather than following the crowd, their cars lack the excitement that they once had, in my opinion. Their future hybrids may be technological wonders, but to me, the term "hybrid" doesn't equate to "gotta have it!"
Now Lexus has beaten them to market with the first entry-lux hybrid, the HS250 or whatever it is. Honda is really lagging, and it shows at Acura and at Honda both.
Will Honda bring out ANYTHING innovative?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I expect that they will, but I don't have much hope that future Acura models will appeal to people like us.
For '09, the Hondas that appeal the most to me are the Civic and the Fit. I think I mentioned that no Acura models appeal to me. Am I remembering correctly that you agreed?
Actually, I am curious about the 2010 - 2011 TL-S with AWD and a 6 speed manual. It may be too big and heavy to be fun though :sick:
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I expect that they will, but I don't have much hope that future Acura models will appeal to people like us.
For '09, the Hondas that appeal the most to me are the Civic and the Fit.
Agree with all of the above. I liked Honda for reliability, sportiness, cars that were not too large. The accord is huge. The TL is now huge and ugly. The formerly great TSX is bigger and softer. I agree, the Civic still looks like an upscale car.
But if you like agile, quality,and small, you either pay big $$ for BMW or you look at Mazda. The 3 (although uglier than last gen) is a quality small car that is sportier than the Civic and handles great. We own a Mazda 5 and for a micro-minivan .... well let's just say that the Mazda 5's steering and handling are far superior to my 2005 Acura Tl's. The TL has more power, but from an agility and handling perspective, the Mazda is much more fun to drive.
VW might have been a consideration, but their reliability and cost-to-repair issues kill them. Plus their latest gen cars are more Japanese in style and IMHO are a lot less attractive than before.
I agree with you on the 3-Series vs. Civic. The things I don't like about the 3-Series are the run-flat tires and the fact that it doesn't have an oil dipstick.
I'm not familiar enough with Mazdas to comment, but your positive comments are consistent with what I've read.
VWs drive very well, and their reliability has improved significantly. I'd cross shop one with a Mazda now.
Hopefully somebody from Honda/Acura is reading these posts and knows that former Honda lovers are concerned. Unless Honda is happy to move toward Toyota blandness - perhaps that's where the big bucks are.
I'd like to see a next model Accord go DOWN in size, along with the TL. And get some more attractive styling.
Hallelujah, say it again! The last gen of both these models were as large as either should ever be.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
As I've mentioned several times in various discussions, I think Nissan/Infiniti has the answer in terms of platforms; that is, FWD architecture for Nissans and RWD for Infinitis. I'd like Honda/Acura to follow the same business model.
V8 engines aren't that important to me, since Honda has the know-how to make outstanding 4s and 6s.
I'd like to see Acura reintroduce the RSX, to compete with the 1-Series BMW.
Your thoughts?
Right now, I have a 2005 Accord (4 cyl. stick), and 2000 TL. Also a 2005 Odyssey to round out the fleet.
And most likely, none of them would be replaced by another Honda. Between the bloating, various quality issues (trannys) reported, and styling on the Accura (Accord too, but not as much), they really don't interest me any more.
They also seem to be moving away from the days of lighter, agile, good visibility modest size cars.
I actually really liked the 2004-2008 TLs Very nice looking, and the TSX was very nice too for a 4. I almost bought one in 2005, but got too good a deal on my EX-L Accord.
My sister does have a new TSX, and it is a nice car (I drove one briefly), but certainly more "mature" than the 1st generation. And the TL is just an abomination (all visual, I never drove one).
Plus, they have become a gadget and button fest, something that Hondas never used to be (tradtionally simple, clean, perfect ergonomics).
I will say that I spent some time driving a new MDX, and while it is not very pretty (nose at least), it did drive nice. But it is quite the boat, and very heavy.
So for me, Acura offers nothing of interest at this point. I too would be more likely to end up with a Mazda, BMW or even a Volvo or Subaru than another Honda/Acura.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Acura should be sportier than it is currently. The TL is too big and heavy. I'm actually GLAD that they didn't do a V8 - sixes are more powerful than eights used to be, and Honda makes the best engines around.
TL - next gen a bit smaller than previous gen. Electronic features are fine, but Mazda-fy the steering (too bad Honda USED to be known for this). Appearance could be a derivative of the 04-08 car with upgraded styling, perhaps only a little bit of the 09 styling thrown in.
TSX - more like prevous gen. Tighter steering. Optional six cyl to compete with the A4. Upgrade the interior to true luxury class, but keep the handling taut.
New sedan - competitor to BMW 1-series at lower cost. Smaller than TSX.
RL - Needs to be better differentiated in size from TL. If TL gets smaller, keep RL at current size and there you go.
MDX - Not many changes needed
RDX - Lose the turbo unless you can get some refinement and fuel economy out of the 4. Otherwise just put a six in it.
NSX - Bring it back, upgraded, if funds allow.
Larger sedan - if funds allow, put out a turbo six, larger than current RL. True luxury sedan, high end. No V8.
And it would be nice to see a "mini-NSX": a proper sport coupe that is lighter, smaller-engined, lower-priced.
Oh, and they really don't need more than two midsize sedans: they can keep their gizmo-lux model (currently the RL) as long as they also have a proper sport sedan, which could be the TL if they sliced half a ton out of its curb weight and gave some road feel to the steering again.
The TSX is just a waste of resources unless they choose to keep it instead, give it the optional six, and cancel the TL. But it's an awkward size because of its European heritage: it's too small for Americans that like a wider car with a larger back seat, and it's not small ENOUGH for folks who want a sporty small car (like me).
But it is pointless to talk about any of this, because the most fundamental change they MUST MAKE to compete with the big boys is one they won't make: developing a couple of versatile RWD platforms for all Acura models. 300 hp in a FWD sedan? Ridiculous. They are destined to be the Japanese Saab as things stand, and we know where Saab stands relative to BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus. It's the slightly sportier Volvo. Whoop de doo.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The preceding model was a fairly elegant vehicle. I suspect some of those will retain longterm owners like you. A used Type-S might not be a bad pre-owned thing to buy either.
The TL though was very overdone, and even quite tacky. The interior was also way too busy and overstyled. Made my 2000 sitting outside look svelte and understated.
the new RL they had was OK, but again the nose has to go.
what is it with car makers trying to stick the same corporate nose on every car? Never seems to work on different sizes, although maybe if they designed a good looking one (something that Acura and Audi both failed at!) it would work better.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The new TSX styling doesn't look bad. However, rear seat leg room is rather tight. Also, the foot space for entering the back seat, between the edge of the rear seat cushion and the bottom of the B post is especially tight. Considering that this is a mid-size 4-door car, that design deficiency alone is a significant demerit. Check it out if you're seriously considering a new TSX.
New Honda President Lays Out a Few Goals(Straightline)
I suppose it will be AWD on a FWD platform, which will eliminate it from true BMW competition, but at least we might finally have a fun Acura coupe under $30K again.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I noted with amusement that one can lease a new TL for only $9/mo more than the TSX when I saw the TV ad last night. Just a hint of desperation there. I think if Audi holds the line just a bit on its pricing it is going to eat up Acura's sales with a spoon. Not to mention the new S60 looks pretty good, and who knows, people might even start buying new Lincolns - I saw the first new Lincoln in my area in ages the other day.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Instead of bringing out butt ugly things like the ZDX and TSX Wagon, they should be focusing on completely gutting and redesigning the RL, which is an absolute shame that Acura neglected it and put it down the toilet like they did and bring out some sport coupes, like the NSX and CL again!!!
In 10 short years HMC fell completely off its game with both the Honda and Acura lineups in America. It's no wonder nobody cares. The Cross Tour and the ZDX?? What were they thinking?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
They know it sells very poorly, so why not at least give some of us Acura buyers some hope that they are going to turn that car around in the near future?? Just boggles the mind.
This is exactly why throwing "high tech" consumer electronics on the inside of the car is a really bad tack for Acura to take - it will ALWAYS be outdated in a couple of years. Then you have a whole dashboard full of 8-track tape players in a $40K car. The high tech needs to be under the hood and in the chassis, something SORELY lacking in Acura cars in the last 5-7 years. And there's no indication there will be any change in direction any time soon. :sick:
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
For me, as the owner of an older TL, Acura has lost its luster.
Where they really need to take the product is back into the design studio, because if they don't rediscover good design, they won't have enough sales to survive!
In the last decade, the 1999-2003 era TL was by far the most popular car, along with the MDX, so to me that pretty much screams of glorified Honda/near luxury.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
If I can make a minor correction, the previous TL platform was produced for 5 model years, '04-'08, and the one before that, '99-'03. If Acura continues on a 5 year cycle, the next all new TL will be introduced in the fall of '13, as a '14 model. That's quite a wait.
Realizing that something needed to be done, Acura cleaned up the front-end some, toning down the beak effect, and shortening the front-end overhang by 1 1 /2". It also made some minor cosmetic changes in back. Mechanically, the TL now has a new 6-speed automatic, which replaces the 5-speed. This enhancement is said to improve gas mileage of the FWD vervion by 3 mpg. These are all positive changes, but it seems that the automotive press barely noticed. Did Acura not go far enough with these changes, does it have a PR problem, or some of each. Would the press have made more of these changes if it had been BMW or Hyundai?
As a TL owner and one who respects the brand, despite recent disappointments, maybe I was expecting too much, too soon. Maybe the freshened TL will yet become popular with buyers. If I were to guess, it looks like we have to look beyond this generation, to the next all-new platform. That'll probably be introduced for model year '14. That's a long wait!
Seriously, I don't pay a lot of attention to sedans, but I had to go look it up. If they called it a Jetta, at least I'd have an idea of what it was. MDXs I've figured out from reading the SUVs boards.
A 3 mpg improvement is pretty significant.
Inside Line covered it and the story over there got ~40 comments, so some people noticed.
Not many of the comments are complimentary though.