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Check out these % retail figures. Nearly 80% fleet sales for the Avenger and a dismal 63.5% fleet for the Sebring.
Make Model - total sales / retail sales / retail % / incentive
Honda Accord - 28,915 / 27,498 / 95.1% / $0
Toyota Camry - 46,630 / 43,039 / 92.3% / $0
VW Passat - 3,563 / 3,249 / 91.2% / $750
Subaru Legacy - 7,420 / 6,269 / 84.5% / $1,000
Nissan Altima - 25,935 / 21,681 / 83.6% / $500
Mercury Milan - 2,764 / 2,144 / 77.6% / $1,000
Saturn Aura - 4,694 / 3,581 / 76.3% / $1,000
Ford Fusion - 12,435 / 9,102 / 73.2% / $1,000
Hyundai Sonata - 15,080 / 10,917 / 72.4% / $2,000
Mitsubishi Galant - 3,026 / 1,954 / 64.6% / $4,000
Pontiac G6 - 10,892 / 6,949 / 63.8% / $1,250
Mazda 6 - 3,814 / 2,185 / 57.3% / $3,750
Kia Optima - 3,106 / 1,466 / 47.2% / $2,650
Chevy Impala - 35,849 / 16,526 / 46.1% / $1,500
Chevy Malibu - 7,872 / 3,243 / 41.2% / $1,250
Chrysler Sebring - 10,249 / 3,740 / 36.5% / $1,000
Dodge Avenger - 8,261 / 1,701 / 20.6% / $0
2007 MAZDA6i Sport Value Edition (2.3L 4cyl 5A), which I bought for $16,200 has the following expected resale value according to edmunds:
Year 1: $15,406
Year 2: $13,469
Year 3: $11,765
Year 4: $10,254
Year 5: $8,898
For the comparable 2007 Honda Accord Special Edition 4dr Sedan (2.4L 4cyl 5A), which I believe would have cost me at least $3000 more than the 6 (ie. $19,200, or more) they have Expected Resale Value:
Year 1: $17,240
Year 2: $14,978
Year 3: $12,989
Year 4: $11,225
Year 5: $9,642
So the Accord is predicted to have a higher resale value, but not nerly enough to make up for the higher initial price. In my case I'll likely keep my car for more than 10 years, so it does not really matter, anyway. But even after only 3 years, the difference is about $1000. I think there are very few people who did not save well over $1000 by buying a Mazda6 instead of a comparably equipped Accord.
It is interesting data nonetheless.
The overpriced Aura
Or the bargain basement (right now) 2007 Accord
Ford and other mfrs tend to have big red plunger looking things in their test mules. I have no idea what they are really for but I'm guessing that they are some sort of kill switch in case something goes terribly, terribly wrong. :surprise:
You would think it would do something cool like explode spy photographer's cameras or something but obviously it doesn't.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The desirability is that it can reduce wind buffeting while still allowing additional ventilation.
FYI - these reviews represent a tiny sample of the population.
It reminded me of those cartoon plunger TNT things (was that Wyle E. Coyote who was always doing that? Am I telling on my age?? ) so I started to wonder if it would blow up the car itself, but I was afraid someone might think that was a partisan comment, which it wouldn't have been, so I didn't. :P
ahh yes, a stability control system
The overpriced Aura
Or the bargain basement (right now) 2007 Accord
Or you can test drive these cars and buy what you like and form your own opinions instead of being herded around like a sheep. BAAAAhhh!!!
Why do you think GM and Ford are cutting back on daily rental fleet sales (GM still has a ways to go but Ford is getting there).
One thing to remember is that fleet contracts are usually for a specific number of units done months in advance. So if a vehicle's retail sales volume falls from the previous year then the percentage of fleet sales will go up even though the actual number never changed from what was projected.
I think I'll stick with my original theory... those who have decided to buy a used car don't usually do a lot of research as to what kind of discounts were available when the car was originally bought. I know many people who have bought used cars that were just a couple thousand of what they could have gotten new with much lower interest rates and a longer warranty. Granted, these are a saleperson's dream, but being in sales for quite some time, I know that most consumers are not very well researched and if you try to help them get informed their eyes glaze over. Which is probably why a manufacturer's reputation plays such a big role when it comes to buying cars despite the truth that the reliability between manufacturers differ by only a couple percent over five year periods for most cars in this segment according to consumer reports and JD Powers.
Holy mackerel, you aren't kidding. I can't imagine owning a car in the 3s, and I've had cars in the 2s already. That is some motoring.
Target, I made a short video to show the techniques I'm using to test the max fuel economy of my new Honda (basically slow accelerations with 2500 RPM max, letting speed drop on hills, and a lot of coasting). As you'll see, they aren't really dangerous. I'm keeping up with the slow lane of traffic most of the time. Watch how when I coast, the cars next to me keep going only to have to slam on their brakes shortly after to reduce speed down to the limit or to stop.
I this true "hypermiling"? Maybe. Will I see results that are worth the effort? I don't know. Is driving like this fun? Not really. Will my next video be more exciting? I hope so!
The video also shows how smooth and quiet the car is, for those who don't care about fuel economy. Turn up the volume and you can hear the turn signal and barely hear the engine.
Maybe when I've burned this tank of gas and thus finished this little experiment, I'll make a video of a full acceleration run so everyone hear can see and hear that experience.
Link to video on CarSpace
this may be true depending on the acumen of the buyer - but also it is true that the vast majority of later model cars are traded in or sold to dealers not sold 'private party' and certainly not at anything close to KBB 'retail'. Those folks will know precisely what you or anybody else likely paid for a car - it is their business to know, and they will base anything they would pay for your car based on that. Rebates do, in fact, reduce any car's resale values as well as its initial cost. Even sold private party, banks have things called 'loan values' that would protect them from loaning too much, so therefore, the chances are that even if you can find somebody to pay a few thousand more than what your car is really worth, the guys with the checkbook are not likely to go along with it.
The whole concept of ever getting even close to what you paid for an 18 month old car that is not in high demand anyway, just doesn't happen! But you are welcome to believe your KBB/Edmunds/NADA 'retail' values if you wish, or you can fall prey to that oldest trick in the book, and let the dealer sooth you with a high trade-in allowance on an overpriced newer car.
the biggest thing is, you don't know what I paid for my car nor the discount I got on it. if you are assuming that I just got the 4k rebates and that's it, you'd be wrong. so my argument still stands... if you get a good deal on a car, that will help make depreciation much less of an issue (though to be sure, buying a new car should never be considered an investment). losing 10% in value (based on private party value by KBB) for a Mazda6 that I bought 18 months ago and have put 20k miles on it is amazing which is probably why you're doubting this. but believe it or not, Mazda6's can be had for amazing deals which is probably why the #'s are what they are. in the end though, I like my car way too much to sell it even if the resale value is awesome. it's just another thing to be happy about my Mazda6.
Mazdas, in particular, have no history of 'awesome' resale values although I believe that they will generally hold better than essentially the same car with a Ford logo on it. That 'Japanese car' perception perhaps. Furthermore, the 6 has not been showing anything remarkable from a reliability standpoint, I guess giving some creedance to the thought that they can build 'better' cars in Mexico (the Fusion) than they can in this country (the 6)?
ALG Depreciation Ratings
They seem pretty accurate to me, with a few small surprises, but then again I'm no expert.
Click on the press release link for more information about the ratings.
No offense, but I'm gonna go with the opinion that edmunds knows more about average car prices than you do.
There has never been a $4000 rebate on the 2007 Mazda6. The largest rebate has been $2000, so far and is currectly at $1750. Some (but not all) buyers, such as myself, have gotten well below invoice less the rebate...we will experience even less depreciation than the average buyer.
Right now edmunds gives a TMV of $18,736, including the $1750 rebate, on my exact car. For the comparable Accord the TMV is $20,614. These figures represent the average buyer's price. The difference is $1900. So my point stands that there are likely very few people who did not save well over $1000 by buying a Mazda6 instead of a comparably equipped Accord...and are likely to experience less depreciation cost (measured in dollars) in the Mazda6 than they would have in the Accord.
This rating is most certainly based on percentages. Using the edmunds figures in my previous posts the Accord is predicted to depreciate less in percentage terms, but the Mazda6 is predicted to depreciate less in terms of dollars.
I am not going to debate you, I will continue to stick with my belief that edmunds (and carmax) know more about what cars sell for than you do.
guess CarMax either thinks (or knows) that there are just bunches and bunches of idiots out there? Maybe there are - but in the case of any reasonably intelligent buyer thinking of spending maybe $15 or $16k on a car, I am sure as hell going to go look at new ones, get this 'great' price and then run on back to CarMax and tell them they are asking a few grand too much. Wouldn't you?
I think the important aspect of TMV and ALG ratings is that they use AVERAGE transaction prices. Some people here got great deals on Mazda6s and Accords, but we are in the tiny minority... I bet more people paid closer to sticker.
The point is that the average residual value that edmunds reports may still be correct, even if it seems to you to be too close to what some buyers paid for a new Mazda6.
It is really hard to find anybody that doesn't like to at least think they got a better deal than somebody else. This a function of all our egos, and $2200.00 is a lot of extra discount on a car that you are contending that everybody else is paying that much too much for. Suggest that there is more to this story, perhaps a unusual color, option combination, a demo, something that had been on the lot too long, or even a special order car that the dealer already had some money on. If you are going to assume Edmund's TMV (and resale estimates) are even close to accurate (a real stretch IMO in these days of outlandish rebates), then your purchase price seems even more unlikely.
The fact is that the Accord's higher resale value is offset by its higher purchase price. It does not matter how you figure it. If you start with invoice less rebates, rather than TMV, for the models I looked at that will still show the Accord at about $2300 more than the comparable Mazda6. This is more than double the difference in edmunds predicted value after 3 years.
If you don't believe that the initial purchase prices are affected by expected future values, then you must believe that only Accord buyers know about their higher resale values. One who is buying a Mazda6, Ford Fusion, Sonata, or whatever is just as likely to be aware of the higher resale values of Accords and Camrys and therefore will seek to pay significantly less than those cost, in order to offset this difference.
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Since you believe Edmunds TMV to be accurate, have you checked the Edmunds TCO or "True Cost to Own" figures? They are based off of TMV and include depreciation, financing, insurance, expected maintenance and repairs, etc.
Comparing similiar models, Accord LX has the lower TCO at $0.44 per mile versus the Mazda6i SVE at $0.47 per mile.
Now, that is a difference of $0.03 per mile, which at 15k miles per year is $450.
It is up to the individual consumer to decide if that is significant to them or not.
A Malibu LT 4 cyl has a TCO of $0.49 per mile, or $750 /year.
But yes it could very well be that the Accord is cheaper overall, after considering all things. It does get a little better gas mileage for one thing.
I've said before that the differences in net costs, considering initial purchase price and resale value, seem to be pretty small and should not likely be a significant factor for most. IOW, I don't think there is any reason to fear that the resale value is going to kill you if you do not buy an Accord or Camry...you will likely save enough up front to offset anywhere from a little more to a little less than the resale value difference. (In the case of the Mazda6 I lean toward believng you will save a little more )
I would feel the same way about a few cents per mile difference in operating costs. That it is not a significant enough difference to concern me. If someone else is concerned about this I would suggest adjusting the edmunds figures to fit their actual circumstances and see what the difference is then.
BTW, I think the Accord SE is more comparable to the Mazda6 SVE...doesn't matter in this case as the cost per mile is the same as the LX.
I know this isn't ground-breaking news, but it really amazes me how few people know that so much money can be saved by even the smallest amount of bargaining. It can even be the difference between a stepping up to a nicer class of cars depending on the situation.
true or not, a very very difficult thing to fathom on a purchase of this magnitude. Maybe I am assumming too much intelligence for the average American carbuyer?
In my case, because of my local dealers (only one Honda dealer and one Mazda dealer in town), the Accord ended up being the cheaper car to purchase. Of course, experiences will vary, as in other cities the Honda dealer might be snobby and the Mazda dealer might be easy to deal with, or there may be more than one dealer per make. We have two Ford and two Chevy dealers in town, but I wasn't as interested.
I am less than impressed with our local Mazda dealer. There's another one about 30 miles away, but I'd rather buy local, and the Accord proved to be a worthy alternative, to me.
Logic being Honda's last over 200K while other cars are just happy to go 100K.
I think that is the main driving factor behind resale value. Miles mean little to Honda/Toyota midsize cars.
What was the MSRP on the Mazda6 that you paid $16,200 for?