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USED European Luxury Cars (pre 1990)
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Granted, mine's the top of the and would option out at about 30K in 1992 dollars.
http://carguides.autotrader.com/at/ucars/UsedCars_compare.jsp?Ids=13052901,13052911
......so with leather (roof was a 'no-cost' option), probably about $35k.
I do think though, especially in this image-conscious genre of cars (entry-level lux), a lot of people in '92 would have bought a 189hp new-style 325i over a 160hp 190 with essentially a nine year-old design, especially with a $5k price advantage.
Driving at 8-9/10ths does cry out for rear wheel drive,but who drives like that all the time? There are just too many practical reasons for a car that small to have FWD.
We car nuts can get to hung-up with theory-the curent debate about drive wheels is a great example. The 190 could have made a pretty little coupe,but the tiny rear doors,like the ones on the first BMW 3 sedan,are a little inelegant.
The proportions are a little ungainly.
Merckx, so what do you think about the C320, should it be FWD? I should think not. It is after all the modern version of the 190.
One reason I bought a Passat last year was that I thought its proportions were perfect. It's small enough to still have a lot of "nippyness"about it,yet is plenty roomy inside.
The current CLK I don't care for at all-it's way too heavy about the C pillar.
However the new one about to go on sale I think is very handsome. Ironically,I've read a fair amount of criticism about it. Styling is SO subjective. But I do greatly admire the new one. The roll-down back windows are also a welcome return.
With a budget of ~$30k, which would you pick? I guess I'm interested in reliability and cost of maintenance especially. Mom's not quite as interested in speed or flash at this point. What year of each car, in general, can she expect to find on that budget?
Also, are there other cars you'd consider? She's been very happy with the 300 (understandable w/325k and one fatal-to-a-cow collision at 50mph, stepdad unscathed). Her main complaint about it is lack of rear seat room and 'relative' lack of power, both of which have improved a lot over almost fifteen years. I'm thinking I might try to steer her toward a new Passat also, though her perception would likely be that it's a 'step down' or that VWs are less safe than Mercedes, never mind the actual realities.
Thanks for any input.
Bill
I also don't recommend a BMW 740IL for a used vehicle.
An E320 would be fine. How about a used 500SL?
Shiftright, having recently gone with my mother to shop for this cars in this very market, and I would say that the Volvos are not too far behind Mercedes, which is a testament to how bad Mercedes got there for a while.
I think a used E320 is a good prospect. You could also look at a 97-98 model 528i or 540i. I would also recommend a used A6 from like 1998. I know someone who got a used A6 from a local dealer with a 100,000 mile warranty, it was very nice. It was also a wagon.
ghulet, from BBC Top Gear:
5-series vs. E-class as a used purchase prospect.
"It's hard to choose a winner here...both are around the same price (though the BMW is generally cheaper)...However, while the Merc is a sedate motorway cruiser, the BMW is more of a driver's car with its agile chassis. The 5-series also has a more modern interior than the more traditional E-class. However, as the Mercedes is better built, it represents a better bet for very long-term ownership, so in the end the E-class comes out on top."
The SLs are fine but god forbid you ever have to repair the engine. You are looking at a $16,000 rebuild.
The LS is like a sensory deprivation tank-and when you're just cruising,that can be fun.
I think Lexus has achieved with this car what Rolls Royce used to talk about-a "ball of silk"feel throughout the car.
Maybe you throw away these cars when they need anything more than gas and oil. I'm still reeling from Shifty's suggestion that you scrap a Sovereign at 60k :-).
She's had Japanese cars (Toyota Camry and Cressida from waaayy back) and sports cars, but she wants another sedan, especially since their 'other' car is a 944. A 500SL is probably out of the question. A Lexus LS may be an option, I'll try to get her to at least drive one, but it's gonna be a hard sell against the Mercedes. I like 528/525/540i, but I don't know how she feels about them. I know they have less room (interior and trunk) than the E320, so that may be a big strike right there.
PORSCHE 911 -- it depends on what years of 911 you are interested in. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, so I'd need to know specifically which year and model.
Generally, I like the 78-83 SCs the best for the early cars. I think they were among the best 911s ever made, and still very affordable.
Also, I've read in many sources that these '70s SLs, while built very solidly, get terrible gas mileage and suffer in performance because of the early emissions controls.
Early 911s -- I like the '73s if they have the CIS injection system (sometimes called 1973 & 1/2). The earlier cars have either webers or even solex on the very early ones, or mechanical injection. Then there are all kinds of other things to watch out for, like which type of half shafts the cars have, if they are using the rather troublesome hydropneumatic struts, if they have CD ignition or not. Lots of people like the 70-71 2.2 liters as their favorite of the "old" 911s, the pre-1973 ones. So really if you want an early 911, you need to do a lot of reading and research to pick through the pitfalls and get the best car with the best equipment on it. There is so much to know here!
One big thing to consider is that early 911s are kind of primitive. They are noisy, the heat and ventilation really sucks, and they aren't cheap to restore. If you want a 911 that feels reasonably modern and comfortable, you need to go to the 1978 on up SC models.
But all the early 911s are great drivers. A '65 Corvair is a joke next to them, unless it were a much modified Fitch Corvair, which is a great little car that could compare favorably to an early 911 except in build quality of course.
450SL engines -- If you have to bore and re-piston an SL engine, it gets real expensive. Maybe $10,000 could get the job done, it really depends on the condition of the block and how many new parts you have to buy. The problem is that when you go to the trouble and expense of overhauling a Mercedes V8 you are going to want to re-core the radiator, get a new water pump on there and probably overhaul the injection pump.
For me, the more power an SL has, the better, since it is a very heavy car that needs to get out of its own way. Also, Mercedes 6 cylinder engines are not exactly BMWs. I find them a bit clunky.
As for the transmission, an SL should be an automatic. This is a comfy cruising car, a GT car, not a sportscar. Worst thing in the world for me is trying to shift a big heavy car. It doesn't fit with the character of the car or its prestige. Ditto for any big coupe, sedan or whatever.
Resale value is closely tied to supply and demand.
The 3 series is sold as an entry luxury car and any 3 without the usual luxury options won't have strong resale value. I'd guess that even a 5 speed would be a big deduct, ironic for a car that's so much fun with a stick.
Buying a stripped anything is a bad idea. You take a beating when you trade it in or sell it. People like their luxury these days, even in entry-level cars. We are not a nation of minimalists.
IF i were to buy the car, what could i expect in terms of repair, maintenance, and performance? What's the life expectancy of this car? How many more miles could it run well for? What would make for a 'best offer' if it's a good runner?
I currently own a modest 1987 Chevy Caprice Brougham with 183K miles on the body and about 100K miles on it's 2nd engine. Could I make the jump and be satisfied? Please also keep in mind I paid $1200 for my Chevy, and have put about $3500 in repairs to maintain it in good running condition since owning it in early 1996, so I'm familiar with repairs. Also, it would be my 'only' car that i would need to make a 16 mile round trip commute to school in, so the transportation part would be neccessary. Thank You. All comments will be appreciated. Sirlandy/Joe Anderson.
Is it an Automatic? Has it been rebuilt semi-recently? If not, it is on borrowed time. It uses a ZF 4HP22EH Tranny which is uncheap to rebuild or buy used.
Watch for:
Front end bushing wear
Warped Rotors
Badly clicking valves (Injectors on those DO "click" though...)
Electrical Demons
Bad windows are often bad window switches. $22 part, try swapping it. Otherwise they blow motors and those aint cheap.
Remember, that was a $40K car new and in 2002 $$ that's closer to $65,000. Maintinence is not terribly cheap. A Cap and Rotor is over $100. Proper Plug wires are $100. The correct Spark Plugs, WR9LSs are $5-6 each (Bosch Silvers). Platinums dont work well.
Tranny hose scares me... Has it been driven low on fluid? FIgure $100-150 for the hose itself.
TIres... be careful there. OEM on them were 390mm "TRX" Rims. They use 200-60VR390 Michelin TRX tires (Although Avon CR18s also come in this size and are cheaper and better...).
Cheaper is relative. A proper set of Millimetric tires costs $600. It is quite probably on 15" or 16" rims by now. You can also go 220-55VR390 with TRXs or Avon CR28s.
E28s are great cars as long as you get a 533i or 535i/535is. They are a joy to drive. Fast, good handling cars that are now awfully cheap to buy. However, as a reference, My dealership just sold a 1988 535i with 125K correct miles that was probably as nice as one exists for $4,500. FULL History, One Owner since 1991, no rust, etc.. That car needed nothing. Absolutely nothing.
With proper care I have seen those motors break 300K miles many times. Its' probably the best engine BMW ever made. But this is a 15 year old car with a lot of miles..... Be cautious!
Bill
What's this "hose" for the transmission? This isn't one of those "oh, it doesn't shift very well but all it needs is a hose" stories, is it? (to which I always ask--well, if it's just a hose why didn't you put it on rather than try to sell a car with a malfunctioning transmission?)
Power window repairs can be simple or expensive, it really depends.
528e---that was a dog of a car, the 535 should be a much better performer. However, this car should be checked for a cracked cylinder head, in case it's not running very well.
All in all, I'd be very wary of an old BMW with so many miles. Basically, with 220K the car is worth nothing but its spare parts. More like $1,000 would be a fair price.