We do. Why do you think all the books have a Wholesale (trade in) and Retail price. Also, no 2 cars of same make, model and miles are identical - but we have had that discussion.
I've bought at least 50 used cars over the past 35 years, all (except the very first) from private individuals. Never have paid much attention to used car dealer prices.
In the past month I've been shopping for an SUV for my son and have started to monitor dealer prices - wow. There sure does seem to be ALOT of play in them.
Two examples from Saturday:
1) '02 Nissan Pathfinder SE with 117K on the lot at a Toyota store. Asked the guy what his asking price was and (after he ran to the office) he said, "10,900 but our bottom line is $9700."
2) '98 Toyota 4Runner Limited with 141K at a Hyundai dealer. Salesman said they wanted $8995. I replied that I'd just turned down a nicer one with lower miles for 7K.
Anyways, an update, we got the two warranties and sky guard off, but they didn't want to take the scotch guard protection thing off but we never had contract and I was 99.9% sure dealer didn't have contract but waited till other things were off to cause a fuss.
Well that day was today, after speaking with the manager, the contract for the 3xp (scottguard protection) was mysteriously missing, and on our contract it is not included just a mystery charge with no indication of what it is for. Now, took the manager 30 minutes to go get a file and come back, so they must have looked all over for it and didn't find my mom agreeing to it, but he claims to have called the 3xp people (somehow he did it really quickly though, so got suspicious) and claimed they don't have the contract in my mom's folder and would get it from them Wednesday. He gave a completely valid explanation that our folder had been looked at millions of times and the one document that my mom didn't have, which claims she wanted the scotchguard, must have mysteriously fallen out. Now since it's not in the folder I am 100% sure she didn't sign it, but I'm just wondering how low woudl a dealership go? I'm kind of worried they might stoop as low as fraud and forge my mom's signature which could be very easily done using these sheets, and then it would be our word vs his and we'd be screwed. WOuld a dealership stoop so low?
Also, a new problem just arose. When driving home from the dealer my mom was talking about how she told them she didn't want all this crap and just told them she wanted a basic altima with remote starter, but it was $1k so she didn't take it. Now the remote starter is listed on the bill and I told my mom she did have it and I thought she always wanted it and had it. She told me she thought the remote starter she was billed for was the button (no key on nissans) but I told her it was standard. I looked at both my mom's key things, and she didn't have it. She was charged for it, but doesn't have it, and had I not had this conversation with her she would have paid for something she doesn't have. WIll dealer throw a fuss about this too or easily refund it??
Glad to see you don't believe in sweeping generalizations...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you the guy who let his mom go to that nefarious dealership on her own, where she then proceeded to sign a contract she wasn't able to read?
I think an old aviation maxim might be appropriate for your situation:
"If you don't know, don't go..."
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
LOL, What do you want me to do? Look over my mom like she was 3 years old and my child? You think I have control over an adult?
And it's not a sweeping generalization, I am looking for a car my self, I've been to dozens of dealerships the last few months, and except for one of the acura dealerhips and the BMW dealerships which I went to, they all had sleazy people.
LOL, What do you want me to do? Look over my mom like she was 3 years old and my child? You think I have control over an adult?
If that's the case, why do you believe that you need to clean up her mess?
And it's not a sweeping generalization, I am looking for a car my self, I've been to dozens of dealerships the last few months, and except for one of the acura dealerhips and the BMW dealerships which I went to, they all had sleazy people.
Wow! I stand corrected!
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Because I don't want to see her get screwed over? You wouldn't if you were in my position? She is being charged for things she didn't even agree to purchase and the dealership has no proof of her doing so.
Are you a salesmen or have friends that are salespeople? Of course there are probably good salespeople, but the majority of them are scumbags, I've had little experience with car dealerships in my life, and most of them have been negative, and experiences I've heard from people close to me haven't been any better.
Even if all the dealers you have ever dealt with fit that description your generalization is invalid. Your data is statistically insignificant and not a representative sample. I think it's best to avoid such generalizations.
In any case, it certainly is not right for your mother to be charged for something she did not receive whether or not you were there to assist her. I recommend talking to the dealer to give them an opportunity to make things right.
Normally I would agree with that statement but if this story is true it gives the phrase "clubbing a baby seal" a whole new meaning.
I might be foolish to walk into a bad part of town at night but if I get shot, the shooter still has committed a crime. This dealer was at best unethical. The fact that mom should have had help is besides the point.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
WIll dealer throw a fuss about this too or easily refund it??
Get the 3xp thing settled, then show the dealership the billing statement showing you didn't get the remote starter. He'll probably say he will install one, legally don't know if you would have to accept or not. If you do have to accept make sure it is a OEM remote starter and not some cheap aftermarket starter.
Feeling frustrated? Getting stonewalled by F&I? Having problems getting anywhere? I feel your pain.
Before doing anything else including calling an attorney, have you considered giving the General Manager of the dealership an opportunity to correct any "wrongs" done by his personnel? If you are getting nowhere except frustrated by his people I strongly suggest that you give him a call, write him a letter, make an appointment to meet with him/her to present your problems in a calm, non-threatening manner. Allow him/her to make it right. If that fails, by all means contact your local news station, attorney, and BBB.
And please don't tell him, "Car dealerships are full of scum, really are"
Oxmoor Ford has an interesting ad in todays paper. In big bold print it reads, "Final Weekend... $1,500 OFF YOUR BEST DEAL" Follow the asterick to the fine print below and it reads, "Dealer retains all rebates". Pretty sneaky huh?
Before doing anything else including calling an attorney, have you considered giving the General Manager of the dealership an opportunity to correct any "wrongs" done by his personnel? If you are getting nowhere except frustrated by his people I strongly suggest that you give him a call, write him a letter, make an appointment to meet with him/her to present your problems in a calm, non-threatening manner. Allow him/her to make it right. If that fails, by all means contact your local news station, attorney, and BBB.
We tried doing this yesterday but no one would tell us who the general manager was. We are done with salespeople and talking to one manager now (I think of finance), but we just asked one of the salespeople yesterday who the main boss is and he really didn't answer, squirmed, said there were many, depending on what department, etc.
BTW, gotta love the hate coming at me for making an opinion based on several experiences. (not just this one dealership)
Mom's ex-boyfriend told me several years ago he had come to an agreement on a deal, put security deposit down, and when it came time to sign the contracts they had changed the terms (like they did with my mom) but he caught it and told him he would not do the deal and asked for his deposit back. The manager threw a tantrum, slamming doors and screaming at him that he had AGREED to buy the car as mom's boyfriend just sat in his office waiting for his deposit back. Few hours later he was given it back.
Same guy went with a friend of his who wanted to buy a car. After spending hours talking with salespeople, he decided against it near closing time. The salespeople had felt he had wasted too much of their time though and LOCKED them inside trying to force him to buy a car. Weren't let out until they threatened to call the police.
Another one is with a family friend which I just heard recently as I've heard tons of dealership horror stories discussing this one. This one happened over 20 years ago, family friend was buying a mini van, had color picked out and knew what she wanted. Signed contract and everything....and got a different color minivan. She didn't want the white van and agreed to buy a different color (don't remember what color). But the salesperson showed her the contract in which she AGREED to buy the white minivan as the serial number on the contract belonged to the white one and not the one she wanted. I could go on with these stories.
But hey, I'm an idiot for forming opinions based on "generalizations." Car dealers aren't scum and all these stories are just a few bad apples because some guy named Joel said so. I might have rushed to post that last night as I was upset and paranoid that I screwed up by not getting a lawyer faster giving them the time to forge a contract hence the bad grammar. But I will go as far as to call these people worse than scum.
Sorry if you don't like my opinion Joel. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. How many chances do you want me to give to car salesmen before I can dub them scum?
Let us see. There are Thousands of dealers and if all your stories are true maybe maybe you have experienced 10 or 15. I also wonder how your attitude may be going into a store. Anyway, I would say you need to visit at least 30,000 dealers from all over the country before your generalization might carry some weight. Oh, and throw in a few high end dealers just for grins.
Let us see. There are Thousands of dealers and if all your stories are true maybe maybe you have experienced 10 or 15. I also wonder how your attitude may be going into a store. Anyway, I would say you need to visit at least 30,000 dealers from all over the country before your generalization might carry some weight. Oh, and throw in a few high end dealers just for grins.
In my 29 years of car buying I've only had two dealers try to cheat me. That said, I avoid dealers who run screamer ads like the plague. When I started looking for a Mazdaspeed3, I did a bit of research on nearby dealers prior to stepping into the showroom. And guess what? I was treated fairly and professionally by the dealer I selected. And as for high end dealers, you are also spot on. My local BMW dealer is a gem.
But what do we know?
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
All that really means is that the rebate is already included in the price. You don't get the price and THEN subtract the rebate.
Well I know that. The implication in the ad is that you make your best possible deal and then you will be given $1,500 off. Now someone unwise enough not to read the small print could go in thinking they will be getting around $1,500 off their best deal, which say is invoice. But, the print didn't say all rebates were $1,500. Another section of the ad said rebates as high as $7,000. So, you could think you're $1,500 ahead and be $5,500 behind when the deal is signed for. A sneaky sales gimmick in my book.
But hey, I'm an idiot for forming opinions based on "generalizations." Car dealers aren't scum and all these stories are just a few bad apples because some guy named Joel said so. I might have rushed to post that last night as I was upset and paranoid that I screwed up by not getting a lawyer faster giving them the time to forge a contract hence the bad grammar. But I will go as far as to call these people worse than scum.
Sorry if you don't like my opinion Joel. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. How many chances do you want me to give to car salesmen before I can dub them scum?
I think you have no one to blame exept yourself. It's people like you and your mother, who will sign anything, go to a dealership without a referral or prior research, no plan, they just go in, deep inside hoping someone will just sell them a car. Like a country has a government it deserves - certain type of people get the dealer they deserve. These "scums" wouldn't survive if not for people like you - professional victims.
I have to agree with Jipster; the Oxmoor dealer group's shady reputation is richly deserved. Here's another stunt I've seen the Oxmoor dealers pull: They will post a low "SALE PRICE!!! NOT A LEASE!!!" while the small print disclaimer states: "Sale price reflects $2500 customer down payment."
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I think you have no one to blame exept yourself. It's people like you and your mother, who will sign anything, go to a dealership without a referral or prior research, no plan, they just go in, deep inside hoping someone will just sell them a car. Like a country has a government it deserves - certain type of people get the dealer they deserve. These "scums" wouldn't survive if not for people like you - professional victims.
I think that about says it all. Bravo!
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Sorry if you don't like my opinion Joel. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. How many chances do you want me to give to car salesmen before I can dub them scum?
Like I said, I hope they take you and your mom for every dollar you got and then I hope you get your brains screwed out every time you buy a car. I for one will never help you again with any questions when you come here and I hope the rest of the people here in the biz do the same.
You are a real [non-permissible content removed] to come here and in one breath ask advice on how to get out of a binding contract, then when you are successful with the help of people here you come back and brand us all scum after we offered you advice.
Its people like you that really make me not want to help any one because the average person like your self is never appreciative. they only bring up the bad in people and never mention the good.
Sorry if you don't like my opinion Joel. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. How many chances do you want me to give to car salesmen before I can dub them scum
I'll usually back consumers over car salesmen and dealerships... but you're way out of line on this one mjk5. Joel and the rest of the sales regulars here are good guys and wouldn't pull that crap that was pulled on you. The main point that everyone is trying to get you to understand is that not all salesman and dealerships are like the ones you've been unfortunate to encounter. Can't say I blame you a bit over your outrage over your situation, but place your blame only on those responsible.. not the entire profession.
I can't say I blame our sales people for getting pi$$ed off over you generalizing that all salesman are bad based on the encounters you have had. Yes, some are scum... but most are honest hard working guys.
I love the fact the same people who are telling me not to generalize car dealerships as scum are the ones who are lumping me into the same category with my mother. I didn't buy the car, I had no part in any of that process, I saw the contract two days after my mom purchased the car and am trying to help her out now because she was screwed over. For some reason people on here are telling me it's my fault she got into it, like I'm supposed to watch over her? How is she my responsibility? Do you guys watch over your parents like they are your kids?
Secondly, I'm not trying to get her out of a binding contract, there is no contract. The contract for the 3xp mysteriously vanished, it isn't on the bill of sale, just a phantom charge that took the manager 10 minutes to figure out. Also, she was charged for a remote starter that she doesn't have, so they've lived up to the contract nicely, we don't even know if the crap they said is on the car is even on the car.
Oh and help I received? I never received any help from this board, I had to do it on my own. When I first posted the story it turned into a bickering fest about how my mom should know spotless English and the stupid immigrant got what she deserved.
And now I know where I shouldn't look to for help. These very forums. You guys are condemning me for conceptualizing an opinion based on MANY experiences I've had, yet praising dealerships for scam and fraud? Seriously, look in a mirror.
Call my mother what you would like, naive, stupid, fine. I agree with those sentiments with dealing with her. But I don't care what you think of her, no matter what she is the VICTIM in this case. How is it right for a dealership to charge her for something she didn't even want, not even sign a contract for? How is it right for them to charge her for a remote starter and not even put it in the car?
If a guy leaves a car in a shady part of town and gets it stolen, it's his fault because he should of known better!
Hey, if someone is robbed of valuable goods from their home, it is obviously their fault from spending so much on lavish things.
The real victims in these scenarios are obviously the criminals, they shouldn't be punished since they were just taken advantage of others mistakes!
Oh and Joel, you really showed me how great salespeople really are. For someone who took offense to being called scum, you sure proved otherwise wishing the worst on them. When I went in with my mom to argue for the first time I was polite and courteous, till the sales person she handled the deal with started lying to my face. I called him out on it and he snapped at me for calling him a "liar" and I guess you had the same reaction.
Don't like looking in the mirror Joel? Hard to live yourself essentially being a professional con artist?
For wishing the worst on me I can only wish the worst on you, and I know a karma is a [non-permissible content removed] and will come back and bite you in the [non-permissible content removed] one day for me and all the other people you probably screwed over.
You got quite a vivid imagination there young lad/girl. I sincerely doubt any of this happened and you completely made it up. To paint all car salesman and women with a broad brush is really an insult to the hard working men and women that have the courage and intestinal fortitude to do this job. I really think you just came in here to stir the pot for your own enjoyment So go ahead and have a laugh at our expense . I hope your mother learned a good lesson from this if indeed it happened so next time she won't get . You implied that some Spanish people sued successfully in Calif. Are you saying you are Spanish or of Latin descent? That does not give you an excuse for not taking responsibility for your own actions. So please take that song someplace else because we don't want to listen to it Next time read the fine print. Oh, and I used all these smileys just in case you had trouble reading this post.
you never received advice??? Wow!! What a short memory you have!! I make probably 50 posts here a weeks and read hundreds upon hundreds, yet I remember your posts and remember advice I and many others gave you. Now I'm beginning to wonder if you remember conversations with this dealer correctly.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
right click on the gif, highlight the URL then left click and copy. On the your post click on the URL button above the emotorcons then click paste, then URL again and bingo! animated smileys. Mack
"Oh and help I received? I never received any help from this board, I had to do it on my own. When I first posted the story it turned into a bickering fest about how my mom should know spotless English and the stupid immigrant got what she deserved."
Actually, it turned into a bickerfest when you innapropriately labeled the car industry with several sweeping generalizations. As for not getting help here, following the old adage of catching more flies with honey than vinegar very much applies. Try it.
If the guy's mother was misled or flat out scammed- they should try to recitfy the situation regardless of his attitude. I dare say that making these kind of comments only furthers his sentiments about our profession. That being said, one does get along better in life without either of your attitudes.
"You got quite a vivid imagination there young lad/girl. I sincerely doubt any of this happened and you completely made it up. To paint all car salesman and women with a broad brush is really an insult to the hard working men and women that have the courage and intestinal fortitude to do this job."
Im sorry but salespeople lie to consumers all the time and pad extra expenses to peoples bill of sales. I can understand that the job of the salesperson is to make a profit for himself and the dealership, it is totally unethical to pad and charge for things that are not even part of the sale.
I have been to probably 20 dealerships over the past year looking at cars. At EVERY single one the salespeople played the same games, told the same lies, etc. I still am hunting for the "good dealership" with "ethical practices".
If there are not MORE scummy dealerships than good dealerships why so many books about how dealerships run, how they rip people off, etc.??? I really agree with mjk5. It seems to me that the good ethical dealership doesn't really exsist. It's the savy knowledgeable customer that really benefits by having a game plan prior to dealing with them. I think if they sense a customer that catches their games they are less likely to try and "fool them".
"Im sorry but salespeople lie to consumers all the time and pad extra expenses to peoples bill of sales. I can understand that the job of the salesperson is to make a profit for himself and the dealership, it is totally unethical to pad and charge for things that are not even part of the sale."
At least we agree on something. I also understand it's totally unethical and illegal to charge someone for services or products not rendered. Your first part of this statement is what I have an issue with. Not all salespeople lie and pad expenses everyday. I know I don't. I know Isell, Joel,BR,lrguy, and the others that post here regularly. I can't read minds however, I do have a built in BS detector and can tell when someone is putting a snow job on me. Why on earth would you go to 20 different dealers in one year? What kind of car are you looking for? We always stress on this site to ask for referrals. Friends, neighbors, family, etc. "Hey, nice car! Where did you but it? Did they treat you fairly? Would you recommend them? who was the salesperson?" Last resort, call the BBB and find out how many complaints have been filed against a particular dealership. Buying a car is not rocket science. My oldest son did it over the phone when he was 11 years old. That is a true story and I can prove it. :shades:
I have been to probably 20 dealerships over the past year looking at cars. At EVERY single one the salespeople played the same games, told the same lies, etc. I still am hunting for the "good dealership" with "ethical practices".
OK I’ve lurked here long enough. Now, I have to say something.
I’ll agree that there are still unscrupulous salesman/dealerships out there but you have to be in an exceptionally bad area, look for the worst of the worst or you’re the most unlucky car shopper there is. C’mon, 20 stores and you still haven’t found a good one, how do you do that? Years ago this may have been true but I haven’t seen or heard of it being that bad today.
I bought in 2005 and 2006 and was amazed at how easy it went. Don’t get me wrong, you won’t get your best price right out of the chute but when a real dealer knows a deal is doable they usually make it and I won’t spend more than 30 minutes trying to get it done.
I have two adult sons who were going to buy used and couldn’t find the car they wanted in the Pittsburgh area, so they decided to go outside of this area.
Tale no.1:
In 2002 son #1 found the exact car he wanted in Northern Virginia and when he told me he was going there to get it I told him he was crazy and by the time he got there something would go wrong. He said, “daaaad car sales aren’t like that anymore” and I said, “fine, do what you want, you’re a big boy, but I don’t want to hear any sob stories when you come back without a car or were misled into paying more”. He bought the car with no problems. That’s sale no.1 for a lucky guy.
Now, tale no.2:
Since son #1 did it, son #2 wasn’t going to be out done by his older brother so he decided to try it. In fact, when he couldn’t find one, son #1 goes out on the internet and finds one for him (I have to say son #1 likes doing this kind of stuff, likes cars, gets some car magazines, he should be here talking cars and accessories more than me). He finds one in Columbus OH. So, son #2 tells me he’s going to Ohio and I said, “you two guys are really pushing your luck now but have a ball”. Another car bought without a hitch. That’s sale no. 2 for another lucky guy.
So, the answer may just lie in doing your research and listening to everything that’s being said so there aren’t any surprises. Yes, they had e-mails/faxes sent to them with all of the information they needed so they could pull the trigger with confidence.
I myself still wouldn’t go that far for any car. I would wait for one to pop up in my area but then, I’m beyond the age of getting excited about buying a car RIGHT now.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
ZZZZzzzZZzzzzZZZzzz.NEWS FLASH- the customer lies too! 1.)"No my car has never been in an accident" meanwhile it was hit by a train 2 years earlier. 2.) Mr. Customer on the phone says,"The other dealer I spoke to can sell it to me for $18,500 out the door." I reply, "well, thats an amazing price. You should go get that deal Mr. Customer." He says, "well what can you do?" I say, "I can't beat that deal." He replies, "well what is your best deal?" LIAR! 3.) Mr. Customer says, "$20,000 is all I have to spend." You reply, "I can't get you to $21,500 out the door that is my best deal, how is that Mr. Customer?" Mr. Customer replys, "$21 even and you've got a deal." LIAR! 4.) And the one that hurts the most- Mr. Customer says, "We are going to go get lunch, hold everything for us-we'll be right back." I have been waiting for years. Please Mr. Customer, the next time you come into the store with that line please know this- we know you are lying- tell us the truth. We'll get over it. I often think on my way home from a long day that 80% of my day is spent listening to someone feeding me a line of B.S. In short, it's called negotiating people. It's kind of like playing poker. You don't let everyone see your hand or else you won't win. If the salesperson does it he's a [non-permissible content removed], if a customer does it he's a "savy shopper." UGH
Comments
Yes, market forces influence pricing but markets have some elasticity and can be "manipulated" particularly in the case of the uninformed customer.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Now that may be one of the funniest things I have ever read on Edmunds. Maybe at the pearly gates but not from a customer.
In the past month I've been shopping for an SUV for my son and have started to monitor dealer prices - wow. There sure does seem to be ALOT of play in them.
Two examples from Saturday:
1) '02 Nissan Pathfinder SE with 117K on the lot at a Toyota store. Asked the guy what his asking price was and (after he ran to the office) he said, "10,900 but our bottom line is $9700."
2) '98 Toyota 4Runner Limited with 141K at a Hyundai dealer. Salesman said they wanted $8995. I replied that I'd just turned down a nicer one with lower miles for 7K.
He then asked if I'd buy his for 7. Duh, no!
I posted my story and updates in bait and switch thread but see it is more fitting to put in here link http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f09ff5a
Anyways, an update, we got the two warranties and sky guard off, but they didn't want to take the scotch guard protection thing off but we never had contract and I was 99.9% sure dealer didn't have contract but waited till other things were off to cause a fuss.
Well that day was today, after speaking with the manager, the contract for the 3xp (scottguard protection) was mysteriously missing, and on our contract it is not included just a mystery charge with no indication of what it is for. Now, took the manager 30 minutes to go get a file and come back, so they must have looked all over for it and didn't find my mom agreeing to it, but he claims to have called the 3xp people (somehow he did it really quickly though, so got suspicious) and claimed they don't have the contract in my mom's folder and would get it from them Wednesday. He gave a completely valid explanation that our folder had been looked at millions of times and the one document that my mom didn't have, which claims she wanted the scotchguard, must have mysteriously fallen out. Now since it's not in the folder I am 100% sure she didn't sign it, but I'm just wondering how low woudl a dealership go? I'm kind of worried they might stoop as low as fraud and forge my mom's signature which could be very easily done using these sheets, and then it would be our word vs his and we'd be screwed. WOuld a dealership stoop so low?
Also, a new problem just arose. When driving home from the dealer my mom was talking about how she told them she didn't want all this crap and just told them she wanted a basic altima with remote starter, but it was $1k so she didn't take it. Now the remote starter is listed on the bill and I told my mom she did have it and I thought she always wanted it and had it. She told me she thought the remote starter she was billed for was the button (no key on nissans) but I told her it was standard. I looked at both my mom's key things, and she didn't have it. She was charged for it, but doesn't have it, and had I not had this conversation with her she would have paid for something she doesn't have. WIll dealer throw a fuss about this too or easily refund it??
Car dealerships are full of scum, really are
Glad to see you don't believe in sweeping generalizations...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you the guy who let his mom go to that nefarious dealership on her own, where she then proceeded to sign a contract she wasn't able to read?
I think an old aviation maxim might be appropriate for your situation:
"If you don't know, don't go..."
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
And it's not a sweeping generalization, I am looking for a car my self, I've been to dozens of dealerships the last few months, and except for one of the acura dealerhips and the BMW dealerships which I went to, they all had sleazy people.
If that's the case, why do you believe that you need to clean up her mess?
And it's not a sweeping generalization, I am looking for a car my self, I've been to dozens of dealerships the last few months, and except for one of the acura dealerhips and the BMW dealerships which I went to, they all had sleazy people.
Wow! I stand corrected!
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Are you a salesmen or have friends that are salespeople? Of course there are probably good salespeople, but the majority of them are scumbags, I've had little experience with car dealerships in my life, and most of them have been negative, and experiences I've heard from people close to me haven't been any better.
Even if all the dealers you have ever dealt with fit that description your generalization is invalid. Your data is statistically insignificant and not a representative sample. I think it's best to avoid such generalizations.
In any case, it certainly is not right for your mother to be charged for something she did not receive whether or not you were there to assist her. I recommend talking to the dealer to give them an opportunity to make things right.
Good luck!
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Where money is involved you would not believe how low some will stoop.
"...Car dealerships are full of scum..."
Most are not. This one seems to be the exception.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Normally I would agree with that statement but if this story is true it gives the phrase "clubbing a baby seal" a whole new meaning.
I might be foolish to walk into a bad part of town at night but if I get shot, the shooter still has committed a crime.
This dealer was at best unethical. The fact that mom should have had help is besides the point.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Get the 3xp thing settled, then show the dealership the billing statement showing you didn't get the remote starter.
He'll probably say he will install one, legally don't know if you would have to accept or not. If you do have to accept make sure it is a OEM remote starter and not some cheap aftermarket starter.
Before doing anything else including calling an attorney, have you considered giving the General Manager of the dealership an opportunity to correct any "wrongs" done by his personnel? If you are getting nowhere except frustrated by his people I strongly suggest that you give him a call, write him a letter, make an appointment to meet with him/her to present your problems in a calm, non-threatening manner. Allow him/her to make it right. If that fails, by all means contact your local news station, attorney, and BBB.
And please don't tell him, "Car dealerships are full of scum, really are"
Does this make any sense?
I hope you don't get a quarter from them, and it cost you $1000's in legal fees to find out.
You don't get the price and THEN subtract the rebate.
We tried doing this yesterday but no one would tell us who the general manager was. We are done with salespeople and talking to one manager now (I think of finance), but we just asked one of the salespeople yesterday who the main boss is and he really didn't answer, squirmed, said there were many, depending on what department, etc.
BTW, gotta love the hate coming at me for making an opinion based on several experiences. (not just this one dealership)
Mom's ex-boyfriend told me several years ago he had come to an agreement on a deal, put security deposit down, and when it came time to sign the contracts they had changed the terms (like they did with my mom) but he caught it and told him he would not do the deal and asked for his deposit back. The manager threw a tantrum, slamming doors and screaming at him that he had AGREED to buy the car as mom's boyfriend just sat in his office waiting for his deposit back. Few hours later he was given it back.
Same guy went with a friend of his who wanted to buy a car. After spending hours talking with salespeople, he decided against it near closing time. The salespeople had felt he had wasted too much of their time though and LOCKED them inside trying to force him to buy a car. Weren't let out until they threatened to call the police.
Another one is with a family friend which I just heard recently as I've heard tons of dealership horror stories discussing this one. This one happened over 20 years ago, family friend was buying a mini van, had color picked out and knew what she wanted. Signed contract and everything....and got a different color minivan. She didn't want the white van and agreed to buy a different color (don't remember what color). But the salesperson showed her the contract in which she AGREED to buy the white minivan as the serial number on the contract belonged to the white one and not the one she wanted. I could go on with these stories.
But hey, I'm an idiot for forming opinions based on "generalizations." Car dealers aren't scum and all these stories are just a few bad apples because some guy named Joel said so. I might have rushed to post that last night as I was upset and paranoid that I screwed up by not getting a lawyer faster giving them the time to forge a contract hence the bad grammar. But I will go as far as to call these people worse than scum.
Sorry if you don't like my opinion Joel. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. How many chances do you want me to give to car salesmen before I can dub them scum?
You know, I think we're finally beginning to see eye to eye!!!
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
In my 29 years of car buying I've only had two dealers try to cheat me. That said, I avoid dealers who run screamer ads like the plague. When I started looking for a Mazdaspeed3, I did a bit of research on nearby dealers prior to stepping into the showroom. And guess what? I was treated fairly and professionally by the dealer I selected. And as for high end dealers, you are also spot on. My local BMW dealer is a gem.
But what do we know?
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
You don't get the price and THEN subtract the rebate.
Well I know that. The implication in the ad is that you make your best possible deal and then you will be given $1,500 off. Now someone unwise enough not to read the small print could go in thinking they will be getting around $1,500 off their best deal, which say is invoice. But, the print didn't say all rebates were $1,500. Another section of the ad said rebates as high as $7,000. So, you could think you're $1,500 ahead and be $5,500 behind when the deal is signed for. A sneaky sales gimmick in my book.
Sorry if you don't like my opinion Joel. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. How many chances do you want me to give to car salesmen before I can dub them scum?
I think you have no one to blame exept yourself. It's people like you and your mother, who will sign anything, go to a dealership without a referral or prior research, no plan, they just go in, deep inside hoping someone will just sell them a car. Like a country has a government it deserves - certain type of people get the dealer they deserve. These "scums" wouldn't survive if not for people like you - professional victims.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I think that about says it all.
Bravo!
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Like I said, I hope they take you and your mom for every dollar you got and then I hope you get your brains screwed out every time you buy a car. I for one will never help you again with any questions when you come here and I hope the rest of the people here in the biz do the same.
You are a real [non-permissible content removed] to come here and in one breath ask advice on how to get out of a binding contract, then when you are successful with the help of people here you come back and brand us all scum after we offered you advice.
Its people like you that really make me not want to help any one because the average person like your self is never appreciative. they only bring up the bad in people and never mention the good.
I'll usually back consumers over car salesmen and dealerships... but you're way out of line on this one mjk5.
Joel and the rest of the sales regulars here are good guys and wouldn't pull that crap that was pulled on you. The main point that everyone is trying to get you to understand is that not all salesman and dealerships are like the ones you've been unfortunate to encounter. Can't say I blame you a bit over your outrage over your situation, but place your blame only on those responsible.. not the entire profession.
I can't say I blame our sales people for getting pi$$ed off over you generalizing that all salesman are bad based on the encounters you have had. Yes, some are scum... but most are honest hard working guys.
Secondly, I'm not trying to get her out of a binding contract, there is no contract. The contract for the 3xp mysteriously vanished, it isn't on the bill of sale, just a phantom charge that took the manager 10 minutes to figure out. Also, she was charged for a remote starter that she doesn't have, so they've lived up to the contract nicely, we don't even know if the crap they said is on the car is even on the car.
Oh and help I received? I never received any help from this board, I had to do it on my own. When I first posted the story it turned into a bickering fest about how my mom should know spotless English and the stupid immigrant got what she deserved.
And now I know where I shouldn't look to for help. These very forums. You guys are condemning me for conceptualizing an opinion based on MANY experiences I've had, yet praising dealerships for scam and fraud? Seriously, look in a mirror.
Call my mother what you would like, naive, stupid, fine. I agree with those sentiments with dealing with her. But I don't care what you think of her, no matter what she is the VICTIM in this case. How is it right for a dealership to charge her for something she didn't even want, not even sign a contract for? How is it right for them to charge her for a remote starter and not even put it in the car?
If a guy leaves a car in a shady part of town and gets it stolen, it's his fault because he should of known better!
Hey, if someone is robbed of valuable goods from their home, it is obviously their fault from spending so much on lavish things.
The real victims in these scenarios are obviously the criminals, they shouldn't be punished since they were just taken advantage of others mistakes!
Oh and Joel, you really showed me how great salespeople really are. For someone who took offense to being called scum, you sure proved otherwise wishing the worst on them. When I went in with my mom to argue for the first time I was polite and courteous, till the sales person she handled the deal with started lying to my face. I called him out on it and he snapped at me for calling him a "liar" and I guess you had the same reaction.
Don't like looking in the mirror Joel? Hard to live yourself essentially being a professional con artist?
For wishing the worst on me I can only wish the worst on you, and I know a karma is a [non-permissible content removed] and will come back and bite you in the [non-permissible content removed] one day for me and all the other people you probably screwed over.
My nomination for Post of the Week!!!
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
How do you access the gifs that you're using on wtfdetroit.com?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Mack
don't you mean hightlight the URL and right click? Unless you are using a left handed mousey.
Actually, it turned into a bickerfest when you innapropriately labeled the car industry with several sweeping generalizations. As for not getting help here, following the old adage of catching more flies with honey than vinegar very much applies. Try it.
Mackabee
That was the reason for my comments. It had nothing to do with what did or did not happen when a contract was signed.
I do. I actually mark my mother as my Dependant on my Tax return as she does depend on me for everything.
Im sorry but salespeople lie to consumers all the time and pad extra expenses to peoples bill of sales. I can understand that the job of the salesperson is to make a profit for himself and the dealership, it is totally unethical to pad and charge for things that are not even part of the sale.
I have been to probably 20 dealerships over the past year looking at cars. At EVERY single one the salespeople played the same games, told the same lies, etc. I still am hunting for the "good dealership" with "ethical practices".
At least we agree on something. I also understand it's totally unethical and illegal to charge someone for services or products not rendered. Your first part of this statement is what I have an issue with. Not all salespeople lie and pad expenses everyday. I know I don't. I know Isell, Joel,BR,lrguy, and the others that post here regularly. I can't read minds however, I do have a built in BS detector and can tell when someone is putting a snow job on me.
Why on earth would you go to 20 different dealers in one year? What kind of car are you looking for? We always stress on this site to ask for referrals. Friends, neighbors, family, etc. "Hey, nice car! Where did you but it? Did they treat you fairly? Would you recommend them? who was the salesperson?"
Last resort, call the BBB and find out how many complaints have been filed against a particular dealership. Buying a car is not rocket science. My oldest son did it over the phone when he was 11 years old. That is a true story and I can prove it.
I think somebody has been cloned... :P
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
OK I’ve lurked here long enough. Now, I have to say something.
I’ll agree that there are still unscrupulous salesman/dealerships out there but you have to be in an exceptionally bad area, look for the worst of the worst or you’re the most unlucky car shopper there is. C’mon, 20 stores and you still haven’t found a good one, how do you do that? Years ago this may have been true but I haven’t seen or heard of it being that bad today.
I bought in 2005 and 2006 and was amazed at how easy it went. Don’t get me wrong, you won’t get your best price right out of the chute but when a real dealer knows a deal is doable they usually make it and I won’t spend more than 30 minutes trying to get it done.
I have two adult sons who were going to buy used and couldn’t find the car they wanted in the Pittsburgh area, so they decided to go outside of this area.
Tale no.1:
In 2002 son #1 found the exact car he wanted in Northern Virginia and when he told me he was going there to get it I told him he was crazy and by the time he got there something would go wrong. He said, “daaaad car sales aren’t like that anymore” and I said, “fine, do what you want, you’re a big boy, but I don’t want to hear any sob stories when you come back without a car or were misled into paying more”. He bought the car with no problems. That’s sale no.1 for a lucky guy.
Now, tale no.2:
Since son #1 did it, son #2 wasn’t going to be out done by his older brother so he decided to try it. In fact, when he couldn’t find one, son #1 goes out on the internet and finds one for him (I have to say son #1 likes doing this kind of stuff, likes cars, gets some car magazines, he should be here talking cars and accessories more than me). He finds one in Columbus OH. So, son #2 tells me he’s going to Ohio and I said, “you two guys are really pushing your luck now but have a ball”. Another car bought without a hitch. That’s sale no. 2 for another lucky guy.
So, the answer may just lie in doing your research and listening to everything that’s being said so there aren’t any surprises. Yes, they had e-mails/faxes sent to them with all of the information they needed so they could pull the trigger with confidence.
I myself still wouldn’t go that far for any car. I would wait for one to pop up in my area but then, I’m beyond the age of getting excited about buying a car RIGHT now.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Please Mr. Customer, the next time you come into the store with that line please know this- we know you are lying- tell us the truth. We'll get over it. I often think on my way home from a long day that 80% of my day is spent listening to someone feeding me a line of B.S.
In short, it's called negotiating people. It's kind of like playing poker. You don't let everyone see your hand or else you won't win. If the salesperson does it he's a [non-permissible content removed], if a customer does it he's a "savy shopper." UGH
Well...not really, even So. Calif isn't THAT bad!