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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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Comments
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
A really pristine 123 will still bring 10K today, which is healthy for a slow quirky car that isn't antique yet.
The rockers and front fenders really can rust on those cars.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
With low down (no more than a couple percent), I wouldn't want to pay more than around 1% of price. When the previous ML was being closed out, I know a guy who leased a 55K Bluetec example with 5K down, 499/month.
Today that Impala would be worth more than the fintail, but the MB probably aged better, under identical circumstances.
I once had a W126 S-class with a 3.0 I6 - thanks to the dual firewall and other refinements, it was like an electric motor in some situations.
That is what I expected it to be. Not nearly twice that. He emailed me back saying that was the starting price. I told him up front make your first offer the best. And he screwed up. Though I don't think it would be close to what we got on the VW.
So if you got the 13 VW T TDI Lux @ 49.8k ? ! you are - $ 800 behind to + $1,200 ahead on a 1 year old car? :shades: Not bad !?
AND for no monies down, walked out (well probably DROVE) the door with just youz's signatures !? Given 12,000 miles per year, that is .06 cents per mile to being paid .10 cents per mile to drive a NEW car? First scheduled maintenance interval @ 10,000 miles, included in the price? L's G.
Gagrice - congrats on the new T-Reg! Can't wait to hear your driving/ownership impressions. Looks like ruking gets credit for a diesel convert!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
In the greater interests of this board, I think many to all of us (diesel owners or not) are interested in the experiences (good to bad) of the greater numbers and percentage of folks who do buy diesels, aka the broader headline of "alternative fuels".
Unrelated, but nexus to diesels and probably TMI, not long ago a TSB (technical service bulletin) was sent for dealer modification of the diesel fuel nozzle. (VW T TDI to allow only the ULSD nozzle into the TDI's fuel tank) On first impression, I really don't want it done. However, the jury is still out.
Maybe diesels should have square nozzles that won't fit in rounds holes?
Signed over the Sequoia to my wife's grand daughter this morning. In CA if you sell to family there is no sales tax. That saved about $1440.
Not a diesel convert, but a Touareg convert. I am hoping to beat his MPG with my milder driving technique. :shades: Can't wait to take it out on the highway for a couple hundred mile drive.
Yes, I could see this happening..also for my comment on this:
I would SWAG filling diesel in vehicles requiring RUG/PUG is probably more common than the other way around.
Yes, I agree with this also, mainly because your average diesel owner is basically a more responsible/aware vehicle owner...they aren't driving a diesel by accident..they drive one cuz they want one.
Steve...it's wor$e to put gas in a diesel.
And I agree, Ruking - for a while there only diesels had green pump handles and then some suits decided that gasoline was "green" too. Dumb. Seems like BP was the instigator.
But that said, it used to be worse when diesel injection pumps were wholly responsible for entire injector psi. So...if anyone else can weigh in on the newer diesels, maybe it is not the catastrophic scene that it once used to be? Still really bad though..
And yeah Ruking, I was thinking about the plastic hose covers when I said gas went "green".
They made the leaded nozzles a bigger dia than the insert they put in no lead filler pipes to prevent mistakes.
I'm shocker by those UK'rs...there're in a bigger, mindless hurry over there than we are here I guess
Ya..gas in a diesel (even a really new one) is still something I would DREAD happening to my new GLK. Even caught quickly (let's say the fuel stn delivery guy had a mix :sick: ) I'll bet that scene would take an easy 150000 miles of life off the affected engine overnight. One problem for sure that I can get my head around, even with present tech, is the horrendous damaging pinging that would ensue before actual shutdown. Most owners (borrowers?) putting gas in their (friend's) diesel, are the least likely to actually tune in to the terrible sounds their car was making before actually conking out Gas is more explosive than diesel under ambient atmospheric conditions, so imagine how prone the electronics would allow it to ping under the extra high CC pressures of a diesel? The knock sensor would tell the ECU to retard timing as much as it possibly could. But that parameter might still be so broad that pre-detonation (and noticeable lack of power) would create an awfully foul mood diesel.
So...that's actually an interesting question...I wonder if these new models have sophisticated enough electronic intervention that they shut the engine down like right away at the first whiff of the wrong fuel? Fast enough that maybe the engine life can be saved?
But 400 a day is a bit much, especially if it happens to you.
Anecdotally though, on Coronation Street (a UK TV soap) the vast majority of vehicles used in scenes are predominantly diesel...by a landslide actually..
BP was an early adopter of ULSD before the mandate. If they have put green handles on their gas pumps that is a bad idea. However I will not be buying any BP/ARCO diesel for my Touareg. They only take cash or charge for ATM purchases. So I cannot use my Costco AMEX that gives me 3% on all fuel purchases at non box store stations. Our local Chevron has good price on diesel most of the time. Right now Diesel and RUG are both around $3.95. Plus I only have to fill half as many times as with the gassers.
http://rumors.automobilemag.com/2014-bmw-328d-rated-by-epa-237163.html
It would seem the (ZF?) 8 speed A/T is a key component of both the performance and mpg metrics. Makes me wonder if a 6/7 speed M/T will be offered. It remains to be seen if real world mpg will meet and/or exceed or come below EPA figures. @ almost 40k MSRP, the new BMW 328 D, is FAR (@ app $17 K) MORE expensive than the VW mentioned in the article With a few (can't do without) options, $45 to 55 k would probably seem "normal".
So for VW, I think it hastens the 8 speed dry sump DSG to the US markets.
I also look forward to the also rumored BMW X5 35 D or whatever the redesign will be designated. Since the 328 D has the 8 speed A/T, I would suspect the X5 35 D would also have to have it. (from 6 speed)
14 BMW X5 35 D "REDESIGN"
Is this DSG trans considered to be less maintenance demanding than a hydraulic auto? Do they have longer life-expectancy predictions than a traditional auto?
Current DSG has an oem recommended 40,000 miles fluid AND filter change. It is not unlike an oil change, albeit less accessible. It does take specific synthetic fluids, filter and a special tool or two ( if one DIY's). So (swag ONLY) the DRY SUMP will have a much longer to life time shelf life. Now LIFE ( 6speed M/T and 8 speed A/T) is more my language. :shades: This 40k miles scheduled maintenance item seems to be a source of gas and can be a deal breaker for some. Actually, I was skeptical at first. For the gas it caused, VW stepped up and slapped a 10 year/100,000 miles DSG ONLY warranty. The wife and commute buddy wanted an automatic. They both love the 09 Jetta with DSG. Me? Jury needs 340,000 more miles to decide. :confuse: I'd be happy with 300k to 500k with no DSG breakdown. :surprise: I would be just fine with a 6 speed manual, ala MINUS - $1,100 to boot.
So if you are ready for a TMI between the 6 speed DSG and the 8 speed A/T, I can follow up with another post. :shades:
Also, regarding the 40k interval, they must impose a time limit too? That one is the one that always sticks in my craw, as I usually run out of time long before miles. And if you don't do the required maintenance interval on time, they can use that as an excuse to disallow wty in the future if you are unfortunate enough to have a premature failure of some sort.
So the TMI is BOTH (DSG & A/T) can be UP/DOWN shiftable. Combined with the NO fuel drawn on downgrade, I use (both) to maintain space cushion (downshift primarily, up shift to take road transitions, throttle only if the road transition calls for it) , and the BETTER mpg really takes care of itself (due to no fuel draw) . I do know that if I was more glued to the tach, I can probably GREATLY improve on the 44 mpg (Jetta) and 39 mpg (Touareg). There are a few spin off consequences. I use brakes far less (almost exponentially less) and because people @ my six freak out not seeing predictable brake lamps, tend to follow MUCH farther back.
So it would suggest that BMW is also twin turbo'ing their 4 cyl. There is a common theme happening here. Big power and torque from relatively small displacements with the use of twin turbos and white handkerchief type exhaust emissions at the tailpipe by using DEF fluid in those smaller displacements also.
I'm going to predict that VW will revive new spec capabilities for their TDI in Golf/Jetta/Passat use, by going the DEF route also. In the beginning, there was this perception that "oh no...I gotta buy DEF too? That will erase my fuel savings and be an extra annoyance to boot." I'm sure MB charging $80 to $100. for a DEF service didn't help with this misperception. So FF a couple years (18 months?) and we are starting to learn that using DEF is not only not expensive, it is also infrequent enough that it can't really be considered much of an inconvenience either, unless you are easily perturbed. I think placing the fill pipe beside the fuel fill area is a good route to go also, (under the hood would be best, IMO) although I wonder if BMW might regret the font style choice of that % figure behind the 8 on the fuel cap. (referencing max ratio of biodiesel).
I had to get my 3.25 glasses before I could see that it said "Max 8%" not Max 87...as in 87 octane.. :sick:
They could also offer an upscale performance option in the Passat and Golf by offering AWD by twin turbo'ing their present 2.0 dump the burning of diesel fuel to burn off particulates in the cat by using DEF also. And if they were really smart, they'd offer the Passat with that same pkg as a wagon. One can hope..
MB will probably beat them to it tho with the C250..
Good times ahead..
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I'd love to see the look on their face at VW or MB when you asked if it was ok to mix gas with ULSD at a 4:1 ratio, lol..
A stove oil mix with D2 is a much better way to fend of waxing. Engine longevity-wise at least.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Its hard to consume LESS electrical energy, when one consumes MORE electrical energy !? Or, ... is that a DUH... they hope you do not see?
So when plug in electrical Kwh are figured @ 8 cents (or less), 31+ cents is 389% MORE. NO good deeds go unpunished and unpenalized ! :sick: :lemon:
On the other side (of the bill) it is equally obvious why there are little to NONE, natural gas vehicles ! @ $1.00072 per therm. This is on a 112 % mark up !! And we vilify the oil companies (Shell, Chevron, etc) for making 9 cents on the dollar (in a good year) !!??? :lemon: