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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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@ 180,000 miles and 10 years, I am truly looking forward to the NEXT 200,000 miles !! This critter is on 30,000 miles OCI's (Mobil One 5w40 TDT, available @ WalMart of all places. Still delivers 50 mpg in the I really don't care mode. Life is good.
While that 280 ftlb torque Golf might be a bit of a premium, I don't see why we couldn't just have the 'humble' 230ftlb (or whatever it is) 2.0 TDI already in use here in a less than loaded AWD for lets say 26k? That is allowing (a very reasonable) ...what..2 grand? for the AWD option. In fact that 26k should buy you the diesel, AWD, air, cruise, keyless entry, auto, heated seats and the usual assortment of airbags and a stereo that still has a CD slot...something GM and maybe others have started to decide no one needs anymore that counts me out as I still do not own an ianything, and have not yet ever made an MP3 file. But I have about 600 CD's and would love the option of just grabbing a few for my trips. And maybe a dozen for a 3 day w/e.. Single slot is fine, and preferred thank you very much.
How much more does it cost vs a gasser? We would see a similar difference here, in percent.
I have a whole case with CDs for trips as well. Our Sequoia NAV has a CD single player that ate one of my favorite CDs. It took Toyota months to get a new NAV installed. It quit with the door screen hanging out. Darned inconvenient. No radio, NAV or CD player for a long time. Then it was almost a year later they called to tell me they had my CD. All scratched up of course. I have all my CDs ripped onto my computer. But don't have an iThing or player. I would say CD players are headed to the same graveyard as 8Tracks and Cassette players. The plus, most DVD players will play your CDs.
Canuckistan isn't a very PC term for us Canadians..or at least not the ones whose roots originated here or came from England or the USA.
For me, the istan part is what really catches in my throat. Makes us potential victims..not necessarily endorsors..
FWIW, I have nothing against immigrants who willfully contribute to a nation's growth and ability to prosper. That said tho.. I do take special exception to those who come here expecting a better way of life by leaving behind their land of birth, but then systematically set out to try to convert or have us make special exceptions for their old ways of living. If they had such great ideas back home, then why leave them?
Anyway..back to diesels..
Sorry to hear..but odd eh..we are used to hearing about eaten tapes, but I think must be rare with CD's.
FWIW, I have started to park with either a full sunscreen inside or if quick stop I throw a newspaper on the dash above the CD player. It is closer to the top with some brands than others, but some of them get so HOT you wouldn't believe it from dash branding. (the super hot sun getting magnified through some windshield shapes and angles) Having that newspaper there makes a huge difference and have never had a CD player failure since discovering this in a Nissan X Trail. They replaced many units but only because they were cooking. The newspaper was the easy solution.
Oh and all my music is backed up onto a separate external Hard drives with important docs that goes in the safe while we are gone. After a few times of re-entering lost data you learn to backup multiple places. Disk space is cheap. Costco has a 4 TB Seagate external drive on sale for $159. You can store 1 million MP3 pieces of music on that drive. That is 1.6 cents per 100 songs. That is cheap even for a cheapskate like me.
Here's an appropriate one for your playlist:
Watts in a Tank by the Dutch group Diesel.:-)
Polished soft metal; what's not to like? And the music is probably okay too.
I had / still have to finally fix, a Pioneer DVD recorder that had a capacitor blow during a hydro outage, and it quit with a DVD inside that I needed to retrieve. So I took it apart and found out it was way more involved than I thought it was going to be to get to the CD. In 10 minutes, I got close enough to see it, but 90 min later to actually get it out. I kept the player level the whole time, even before I saw the CD, and was glad I had because where it was sitting, had it been tilted on its side it was free to slide right down between two circuit boards, and you maybe know how sharp the snipped back ends of the components can be on the soldered side. If this happened to yours, even if it wasn't shipped anywhere, I don't see an inventory guy reaching in and then realizing to get it out it would require a bunch of labour hours to retrieve without further disassembly. Does it still play without skipping in some of your players, (the replacement in the car and at home)?
You can research & calculate this, just as anyone else can. Because we can only buy and operate diesels and gassers certified for US markets, it is meaning LESS for other than. BUT it can be meaning FULL as a general (UK/world, etc) indicator.
So in 2003 VW Jetta TDI vs 1.8 T, the premium over a 1.8 L T, vs 1.9 TDI was $236. 180,000 miles later, the TDI resale premium (edmunds.com) TMV OVER the 1.8 L T ranges $1,416 TI, $1,636 PP, $2037 DS.
Using www.fueleconomy.gov AVG mpg= 46.5 mpg/27.5 mpg or 3,871 gals to 6,545 gals or 69.1% greater fuel consumption. As you have heard me say and as you have ALSO written, that is a lot of fuel (2,674 gals MORE to perform the same WORK: go 180,000 miles).
So 2,674 gals of more fuel x $3.85 per gal PUG (current corner store prices) that is $10,295 dollars MORE for 180,000 miles .
I could go on and on, but you have dismissed the real world diesel like model in almost every case on the diesel side. No matter really.
So just on those two factors diesel resale values AND mpg differences the "cost premium will get me a min of 60% more per year (1180) to a 2674 gal savings to a max of $10,295 @ current PUG pump prices.
It will certainly still favor the diesel, but not by as much.
Might as well have full disclosure.
Be that as it may, the current PUG corner store price is once again, $3.85 PUG x 6,545 gals =$25,198. D2 @ $4.09 (D2 is MORE, albeit .24 cents more) x 3,871 gals =$15,832 -25,198= 9,366 dollars.
There are some folks that subscribe to this board that will have you believe that $15,832 (D2 in this case) expended is MORE than #25,19, to do the same work. !!!!! :sick: and they say it and say it more than several times with... a straight face (so to speak)
I am getting the feeling I am pissing off a lot of congressmen/women here. (he actually might be one :lemon: ) The math skills are certainly there !?
This (side by side) is relevant if you have indeed run them, .... side by side. In my case, I have run one, but NOT the other.
So the differential is getting squeezed pretty good right now. $4 minus $3.60 = 40 cents a gallon. I have this sinking feeling it's going to keep narrowing. :sick:
Thanks for looking that up. Is that compared to the 2.0T engine? That requires premium, so the diesel would seem like the way to go even with the $950 USD premium.
Perhaps someone should compare the Cayennes - they come in gas, diesel and hybrid flavors now.
The hybrid price ($69,850) really seems extreme. $20k more than the gasser.
It is the 2.0L TSI engine. That is all they sell in the UK for the Tiguan gassers. And they just says it requires Unleaded Petrol. It for sure requires Premium here. I don't think VW has developed a Urea system for the small TDI engine. Same for Mercedes and their wonderful 4 cylinder diesel with 369 Ft Lbs of torque, and high 30s combined in a heavy SUV like the ML.
That would be cheap for a Cayenne Hybrid. There are seven available from here to San Francisco. Cheapest is $80k and they go up to $88k.
The diesels are selling $66k to $76k.
Gas popped yet again today, so the differential is only 35 cents here in the boonies.
??????
In the context of US inventory of 50 PCH's 2013, that is the "GOOD" news !!!! The fact of the matter, that priced PCH is THE outlier (cheapest IS 69,900 MSRP) of the outlier. The now outer range is 102,105, if cars .com's US inventory is to be believed. :shades: :sick:
2013 PC gassers start @ 54,595 and go to 149,055 in 1005 units.
Of course the on TOPIC comparison with 169 DIESEL 2013 PC's is a range of 62,619 to 86,460. Funny how both the hybrid and gasser option ranges far exceed the perceived "diesel is more expensive" moniker !!??
Sources at the 2013 Detroit Auto Show confirmed that the diesel-powered GTD would be shown alongside the Golf VII GTI at this year's 2013 Geneva Auto Show in March.
"Sales of our diesels have been rising in the U.S. and there's been a wide push internally to include more diesel variants of more models for buyers here," a Volkswagen source said."
2014 Volkswagen Golf GTD Likely for the U.S.
In reading in passing, the Japanese oems almost had their lunches handed to them in the European diesel markets. I am thinking Mazda wants to challenge that dominance here in the (much smaller and lower percentage) US diesel markets. I wish them every success. For as bad a reputation for quality that VW has in the US markets, Mazda will have to dial up their own quality to even come close. They certainly have a better reliability reputation, even as VW is working hard to close THAT gap.
Feb 1, 2013
IRVINE, Calif., Feb. 1, 2013 /PRNewswire/ -- Mazda North American Operations (MNAO) today reported January U.S. sales of 21,319 vehicles, representing a decrease of 11.2 percent versus last year.
They will never do the volumes Honda and Toyota do, so I think going after a diesel niche makes total sense for them.
Horrible month, though, considering just about everybody else was way up.
Look at the Yen. Good bye profits.
Diesels have a higher margin and might literally save them.
I am also curious why no one else seems to be going after similar tech. SkyActive has been around for awhile now...enough time to generate at least some potential rumours of the competition to offer similar gas high compression, diesel low compression engines.
I know Mazda has always been the one to offer different type engine design. Their almost stubborn continuation with the rotary, and even the 2.3 that they used in the Mellenium...forget what was different about that one, but was a high output for a 2.3 and I don't think it was through the use of a turbo or blower was it?
So I also question engine longevity potential I guess, especially the high compression gas jobs on low octane. Even items like head gaskets...are they going to be a weak point once past 140000 miles sort of thing? Pistons..are they going to be prone to burn-thru due to pre-detonation from carbon build up in the combustion chamber raising the CR even further after miles well south of warranty has been racked up, thereby also being a head gasket life span stressor?
SkyActiv-G and soon -D is similar I guess, but they have to get the tech in every model ASAP and then have a consistent marketing effort so people understand what it means.
140k would be fine (if that's what happens) as they'd be on the 3rd owner by then.
Great tech, look at real world mileage. It's the only hatch than can rival the Golf TDI in the real world. Even in the hands of Autoweek editors only the TDI and the Mazda3 could actually hit 40 mpg at 70 mph.
Can the SkyActiv-D hit 50 and knock the Prius out on Fuelly? It could....
I did wonder what figure I should have used for my point..I chose 140k miles but maybe I should have said a very reasonable (low) 100k miles...cuz as we all know, for some owners, 100k goes by pretty fast. Maybe should have said 80 k, FTM..I don't know too many people that welcome a head gasket repair once at 100k. Part of the problem is not being sure you are getting a good job. More than a few head gasket (just as an example) replacements last the repaired warranty period but don't have a chance to compare to the original factory job's life potential. I did use a head gasket purposely though in this example because few other repairs are prone to improper replacement procedures that hide the bad job, slowly doing other life threatening damage to engine internals, and all the while often discovered out of wty and even if it is done under the repaired wty, the premature wear done to the engine internals are already done and owned by you as your liability. External leaks are the best to have if you get a botched job. It's the slow internal ones that concern me the most..
Repair quality, is one of my biggest concerns when it comes to a new car's longevity potential. The longer it can last through good design before a mechanic gets his/her hands on it, the better. Even if the repair is not horrendously expensive you still might get an excellent mech/job, but more often than not you don't...you only get fair or worse.. and this includes at the dealer too, not just indy efforts..
OEM headgasket failure is real as well. My 1973 Subaru blew a headgasket with less than 3000 miles. The Dealer in Anchorage was 9 weeks behind on repairs. They did sell me a new headgasket kit for around 100 bucks. I pulled the engine replaced the defective headgasket. Got it back on the road and less than a 1000 miles the other side blew. Same story booked up for months on warranty repairs. Bought another kit and replaced. No more headgasket failures as long as I owned the vehicle. I did not keep it a long time as it was lousy in deep snow.
Then again the rotary burns oil and gets lousy mileage.
Let's see how their diesel does.
Lets be clear here.... a rotary engine is akin to a 2-stroke in that it is SUPPOSED to consume some oil. Mazda has done a masterful engineering job by minimizing the oil-consumption.
Likewise, BRP E-TEC 2-cycle engines (as seen in SkiDoo snowmobiles and Johnson/Evinrude outboards) consume virtually no oil. These engines may be the engineering marvel of the decade. The power and lightweight of a 2-stroke engine which meets many 4-cycle emissions.
It took NASA-designed metallurgy in thre pistons to achieve this high-point in engine-technology.
This also means NO OIL CHANGES!!! (because there is no oil in the crankcase)
The Downside: The E-TEC engines must be fed with very special 2-cycle injection oil.
If you want to learn more about modern engine technology.
I do trust Mazda powertrains.
Dont forget that this is AFTER the owner has added a turbocharger the size of a lawnmower-engine along with a nitrus. (I call that bottle-fed) From my observations, the 'weak link' is the CV-joints on the ends of the driveshafts.
The rotary-engines seem to be able to spin 15000 rpm because there are no reciprocating pistons nor valves to limit things.
Interesting price on the oil too at $50 a gallon, but at least you don't use much of it. And if you're buying an outboard for $17.5k....
Madza's debut in the Rolex 24 was tough.
Mazda races diesel-powered sedans in Rolex 24, retires early (MSN)
(The oil I get typically runs $12 to $14 for a 5 qt. jug).
I think also folks like you (and I) can and should put it into context. The range on the "specification" of the oil is quite WIDE (robust). All of us are @ choice on the OCI.
Past the ( prepaid )dealer provided 3 oil changes 10,000 miles oem recommended intervals I have no issues running 30,000 miles OCI's. I run my gassers 20,000 miles. The reason why I choice 20,000 miles is even the LEAST consumptive (gasser) of oil, will need to be topped off @ that interval. So rather than top it off, I just CHANGE it.
VW 507.00 specification (TDI) oil can not be called that unless it meets the specification for up to 30,000 miles/50,000 km. In two of three (VW) diesels, consumption is @ 1/4 to 1/2 qt (8 to 16 oz) in 30,000 miles. One has 180,000 miles and the other has 51,000 miles. Both (1.9/2.0 TDI's) have app 5 L OCI sumps. The 3.0 TDI is @ app 9 L's !!! ????? It is coming up on its second 10,000 miles interval. The first 10,000 miles took a pretty aggressive break in (RPM frequently to 80% of redline 5,100) consumption was slightly more @ .5 L in 12,000 miles. This was still not enough to trigger an add oil indicator.
MOST tubocharged GASSERS don't deliver on mpg claims !?
Outgoing Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood lamented the amount of infrastructure spending that was approved by Congress during his tenure at the Department of Transportation (DOT) on Wednesday.
"America is one big pothole right now," LaHood said in an interview on "The Diane Rehm Show" on National Public Radio.
"At one time ... we were the leader in infrastructure," LaHood continued. "We built the interstate system. It's the best road system in the world, and we're proud of it. But we're falling way behind other countries, because we have not made the investments."
LaHood noted that Congress passed a $105 billion surface transportation bill last year, but he lamented the fact that the measure only provided appropriations for road and transit projects until 2014.
"Congress passed a two-year bill. Ordinarily they would pass a five year bill," he said. "It was only a two-year bill because they couldn't find enough money to fund a five-year bill."
http://thehill.com/blogs/transportation-report/infrastructure/281461-lahood-amer- ica-is-one-big-pothole-right-now
Americans like to spend big bucks on shiny new infrastructure projects. Spending for maintenance and operation isn't sexy.
Of course you could have a gas guzzling SUV if you don't want to save fossil fuel. Most cars today would have been given a ticket for being too low to the ground when I was a teenager. Low cars and potholes are not compatible.
I was glad LaHood made it clear in his parting words that our roads are a mess in America. Some states do better than others. CA is probably the worst I have been on in the last decade. They would rather waste money on a High speed rail to NOWHERE....
It's scary that we were once in a mindless irresponsible police state brazen enough to chase people for having low cars. Not always the good old days. Less diesels then, too.
In the early 1960s the cops would come into Oscar's Drive-in with a long stick that had a 6" piece on the end. If any part of your car was closer than 6" from the ground you got a ticket. My buddy had a brand new 1961 Chevy and the exhaust was less than 6". He went to the dealer with the ticket and after a couple court appearances got off the hook. By contrast today you can be in a hit and run in CA and likely never be prosecuted for lack of witnesses.
How times have changed.