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Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Doc, IMO, you're missing the point here
So I write out an example that addresses a very specific consumer concern that has been getting ignored, "fix it right the first time" and you think I'm the one missing the point.
We the diy'er, don't hold ourself to the same standard... we work a lot cheaper. Google the symptoms, ask here or on other more specific forums about possible causes, if the repair is doable, saves oneself a couple hundred bucks. That's the point.
He stated that he could promise me the right oil was put in, saying the tech would know which oil to put in. Stated the parts dept.probably entered it wrong. I stated I understood, but didn't feel that confident that the right oil was used. He paused a second, then said if I wanted to come in he would drain out the old oil and put new oil in, said he wanted me to be happy.
How can you argue with someone who's only concern is to make you happy? Wish my 7 ex-wives felt that way. Anyhow, I told him his word was good enough for me if he was positive the right oil was used, he again reassured me it was. I said okay, we're cool then. My first name is Jim, and all this time he's calling me Jimmy. So, there you go. :-)
Question - what purpose does it serve to have the BCM provide switchable power to the rear washer pump? Why not bring the power off an simple relay switched circuit that's on whenever the ignition switch in on? Bringing that power from the BCM seems like it over complicates things.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I think this is all rather pointless- but hilarious all the same. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that any of the shadetree mechanics in this topic have claimed that they know how to diagnose and repair every problem on every vehicle. The thing is, we gearheads who have owned a specific brand or one particular model for an extended period CAN often know more about the foibles and/or service procedures the car(s) than the average tech who doesn't work on that particular brand or model every day.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
In cars as in politicians, I would use the "trust but verify" technique. However, mess with me once with a lie, it won't happen the second time as pleasantly.
I'd send in an oil sample to have it checked by Blackstone Labs. If I found it was 5W-20, I'd be right in the guy's face, calling him Mikey instead of Mike, e.g..
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Of course not, but even a professional should not make that kind of boast. There are just way too many variables out there. My father has dedicated his life to the profession and is one of the best in the biz, but he wouldn't know, at first, his knee from his elbow if you brought him a Tesla or a Prius. There are some basics that are all the same, sure. But to know all the intricacies of every car? No way.
But I don't see anything wrong or humorous about jipster's post. It is exactly the point of the DIY'er. We are at least confident enough to try things ourselves. We aren't afraid to dive in and take a chance. I'm approaching 40 years old and I've never had to pay for a professional repair in my life so far. I hope I can continue on that path.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I'm sorry if I implied that I disagreed with jipster's comment. My comment was aimed at the attitude that the DIY guys are a bunch of know-nothings and that only true "professionals" should be allowed to wrench on a car.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I think having a pro change my oil is even a slam-dunk bargain, by the time I gear up...oil catcher, funnel, 5 quarts synthetic, oil filter kit, new drain plug, jackstands, jack, rags (MINI oil changes are horribly messy affairs, with an inaccessible cartridge filter), jug to store old oil, drive to the dump to get rid of old oil, reset service reminded. As opposed to having it all down, and a safety check, fluids topped up, codes scanned, tires rotated, all for $130 bucks? This is a no brainer to me.
Brake pads? That I can do myself and make it worth while.
Point is--whether I'm doing something myself on my cars of having it done, I have a certain amount of control over the process--I am in on the decision making process. I don't mind dealing with cranks, but I cannot suffer a dictatorial tyrant for a mechanic.
I figure I spend around $15 for my oil changes not counting my time and the random handfuls of kitty litter. I stack up the old oil in the old containers. Have dumped the oil once in the last 3 years (had to go to the transfer station anyway).
But since I moved further into the boonies, it is way too much of a hassle to set up an appt and gather up the whole fam to take a half-hour drive to drop off the car and again to pick it up.
And that's just my cars. To get my wife to make an appt and drop her car off? Forget it! By the time she gets around to it, it would be thousands of miles past due. I'm a live-in who can work around all of our schedules. That alone is worth it.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I can't say what your "intent" was in the posting, but what I can tell you is how I (and a few others) perceived it... Which was an attempt at demonstrating a type of "superiority" over the non-professional mechanical types here. Only you know what you were actually attempting to get across.
As another poster noted (and, which is only common sense) no shop, much less any individual, can be 100% trained and educated on every make/model and type of vehicle. However, I have indeed met a few in my 58 years that were non-professional mechanics (by trade, anyway), but knew far more in detail about certain makes/models that anything short of a dealership selling that model.... Even to the point that a dealership mechanic would call them for occasional advise on a difficult to solve problem.
Fix it right the first time?
That needs to be your objective (possibly even your requirement) in business.
On the other hand, if it's my car and me working on it, maybe not so much.
Again, it all depends upon the individual's pain/gain ratio he feels comfortable in having.
I can't even buy the filter for $15.
Yep, oil plug replacement is mandatory in a MINI.
I like to have my car looked over professionally every 7500 miles. Up on a lift, under the hood, all fluids checked, computer scan, brake check, tire check, and a road test. That's what I pay for.
For around $17 or $18, I can buy 5 quarts of decent quality, name brand oil (Pennzoil, Quaker State, etc), and an OEM filter (AC Delco or equivalent) at WalMart. $15 might be a little on the short side (if you need 5 quarts), but not by much. Call it "round off error".
Now I will admit, in the last few years, I have started buying the WalMart brand synthetic oil for $17 per 5 quarts. So an oil change for my old GMC Sierra now runs about $22. The Passat runs significantly more, around $40, but I suppose that's very cheap for a German car.
random handfuls of kitty litter
Now this I do see as a problem. Cat litter will dry up the spilled oil, but it da*ned sure won't take up the stain on my driveway. I have some big cardboard boxes which I have cut open and can lay flat underneath the car. When I'm doing something messier (dropping an automatic transmission pan), I use a plastic drop cloth (very cheap, throw away afterwards).
There is a Firestore just down the street from me which will do the oil change for $29, and I'll admit it's tempting. But they're most likely paying some unskilled laborer minimum wage or less to do the job, and I just don't want to take that chance. I paid Firestone to service the transmission in my old truck last year, and they used the wrong drain plug, which caused it to ooze for several months until I redid the job myself.
Usually Supertech from WallyWorld and a Fram. Sometimes it's $16.
Did I mention that I'm at 193,500 miles on the van? Guess I need to think about changing the oil soon - after our 6,700 mile road trip last month, I'm probably overdue by a couple of thousand miles. Ah, no, looks like I changed it back in June so I'm likely good until Christmas. :-)
Mostly I use the kitty litter for the spills on the cardboard so my inevitable spills don't hit the floor, O'Henryx. But it seems to work good on zapping the stains on the concrete too.
But on an over-boosted 1.6L engine typically spending a lot of time near redline, I simply cannot mess around and cheap out on the oil, the filter or the inspections.
I got noooo slack on this car.
The plastic trunk sheets at Lowes/Home Depot/garden centers serve fine for that protection.
For spills that do hit the concrete..., I recommend Dawn dish detergent with a scrub brush. Wet stain, put on 100% Dawn, scrub, add some water, scrub, repeat, repeat, flush, add Dawn, scrub, repeat. Usually does it by dilution method I've described. What's left will fade rapidly. Trisodium phosphate, the real stuff, not the California coast stuff, with bleach and scrubbing will help. But I like the Dawn.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Someone on this site has to be the voice of the clueless, Point A to Point B, "wow, nice appliance" consumer.
I think only Doc knows what it's like in the real world where car maintenance means jumping it when it won't start.
Your vehicle owes you nothing--you're way ahead already. If you want you can go buy another one with 190K on it for not much money.
But my engine blows up, the car's a total even though it's in very fine condition. So basically I lose $10,000 bucks in 30 seconds and then have to spend another $15,000 to replace it. It's an expensive afternoon.
I thought my '82 Tercel was a gem but the V-6 in this Nissan is the real deal.
You have to wonder how many quickie lube shops, if any at all, replace the drain plug during oil changes on Minis...
It's a little dinky plastic plug. How much torque could it possibly take, and how often?
On my 2003 GMC, I would expect the drain plug is original.
No idea why they did that, let alone shut the circuit down over the loss of communication to the rear door module. The best part is service information only decribes how to jump power and ground to the pump to test it and they never published anything about how the BCM controls the power for the circuit.
Why not bring the power off an simple relay switched circuit that's on whenever the ignition switch in on? Bringing that power from the BCM seems like it over complicates things.
We have manufacturers that use BCM's and door modules since the 80's that could generate codes and even have serial data and bi-directional controls via a scan tool and this system has none of that. Everything had to be done by DVOM and DSO and then I still had to be wary of the potential trap that the loss of communication caused. Oh well that's what keeps the skills sharp.
IIRC, my Bentley manual states the plug should be changed at each oil change, which I've always thought was a bit strange. But, at $4.25/plug, I never saw it as a deal breaker.
I'm going to re-read the section in the Bentley manual to see if my memory is correct. If her car ever had any type of plastic-type plug, I certainly never saw it...
Edit... The Bentley manual states to use a "new drain plug sealing washer", and to instruct the tech at any "fast lube" service facility to install and tighten the drain plug using only hand tools.
The only way to replace the sealing washer on our Mini is to replace the entire drain plug, as it's all one piece.
Still, I don't blame you. As you pointed out years ago, trying to penny pinch on a Mini rarely leads to a good outcome...
with any of the newer cars (and absolutely the ones under warranty) I take them to the dealer. For a number of reasons. One is that the Honda/Acura dealer is very price competitive with the only quick lube place I would even consider using. And they have no appointment, 60 minutes or less, service. No, not quite Jiffy Boob, but not something to plan the day around or inconvenience my wife.
so for $30-$35, I know that I am getting OEM spec oil, an OEM filter, and all the "special" fluids that Honda likes to spec. They also do a full multi-point inspection (with a written report) on brakes/tires/suspension/under the hood. Yeah, it is a quick look and basic stuff, but it gives me a benchmark, and points out areas for further research (sometimes they are just a "touch" pessimistic).
the other thing I get is a full service history at the dealer, so if anything ever happens to it (even out of warranty) I have a strong case in my defense. And better odds they cover it.
plus I get to check out all the new cars while I am waiting.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Sure you'll get an answer on this and the first part of it is that everyone has to patiently wait for the car to act up. The testing starts by connecting the scope's channel "A" to the camshaft sensor input and setting it to trigger so that the wave produced on the screen will be steady. The "B" channel is connected to the crankshaft sensor input, "C" to the power for the crankshaft sensor, and "D" for the ground circuit.
All of these connections are made at the PCM, (powertrain control module) that way the only part of the circuit that isn't directly tested for the first failure event would be the pin connections of the PCM and the PCM itself.
The problem with any other approach such as simply replacing the crankshaft sensor, or checking/cleaning/tightening pin connections first is the randomness of the failure. Any disturbance of the harness or the connectors could result in a temporary restoration of the circuit and then subsequently no other trouble found at that time. That situation leaves a customer in limbo not knowing for certain that the problem has been repaired and the only positive proof they can ever get will be if the car acts up and they confirm that it wasn't repaired. Now imagine your wife or kids out in the car and stranded somewhere when it does occur and nobody has any real proof if this is "the same problem", or a totally unrelated condition.
I'd still like to know first what the other shop did.
Lots of people worry about what was or wasn't done previously, that actually has no impact on how to proceed this time (or any time) and has to be completely blocked out as the testing is performed. Many people falsely assume that if a part was replaced and the problem is still occurring then it has to be something else.
Code says CPS, so check the CPS first.
That is correct, the code clearly describes a loss of the engine speed sensor signal while the transmission control module saw the input shaft speed signal active. The PCM also had code P0335 stored and with the report of hard to start/no-start that wasn't a surprise. There were also several other codes stored that were found during the first phase of testing. P0741 TCC stuck off, P1811 pressure control solenoid circuit and a P0300 random misfire. The customer is only concerned about the hard to start, no-start at this time so those just have to be documented and plan to deal with them later.
The basic outline of how to test this system that you see here is what gets repeated for almost any failure, its all about gathering information about how the circuit (system) works and from there how to go about testing it. It's one thing to simply say "check the crankshaft sensor" now you see how to really go about doing that. This circuit is easily tested with a four channel scope. The Toyota Sienna van transmission problem we have in the shop has me watching ten signals at the same time. The information published on it is as poor as it was for that 4-runner.
http://answers.edmunds.com/AnswerQuestion.aspx?questionId=178577
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
What the post started with is exactly the information provided by the customer. That included what was written on the repair order from the first shop. They only mentioned the P0727 nothing else.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
That of course is part of the first phase but you should change it to say check for codes in every module. With today's highly networked vehicles codes and data in an obscure module can often provide important clues.
The car started fine for six key starts with varying lengths of operation including two short trips. When it finally acted up the cam signal was present and correct, power to the crank sensor was correct and so was the ground, the signal was fixed high. There was still a chance there was an open in the harness or the connector for the sensor so the insulation had to be stripped back and re-measured on the sensor side of the connector and it was still high and fixed. The sensor was confirmed to be bad and needed to be replaced.
This outline is what it takes to meet the customers greatest expectations, fix it right the first time. The pressure to be too cheap causes many to short cut the process and in this case slamming a sensor would have provided some relief of the symptom of the no-start/hard to start but it would also have resulted in an ever since you replaced the crankshaft sensor my car now does XXXXX. For many who don't understand the system and how it works they would twist that into the shop/tech must have done something wrong, or done something intentionally to the car that made this "new" symptom now present. Based on the information provided, what will the car do with the new crank sensor that it wouldn't do but should have been doing but was prevented by the bad one?
Hardest part of a professional's position, I think, is relying on the customer's information. There could have been something wrong BEFORE the CPS went bad, but they either didn't notice or failed to inform you. So having multiple problems that are compounding each other muddies the water.
My wife is my only customer (well, my only regular customer. I do often get family/friends/coworkers asking me for on-the-spot diagnoses.) and she can drive me nuts with the lack of information or lack of reporting problems. I try to drive each car at least once a month so I can be on the lookout for unreported problems. The professional, of course, doesn't have that advantage.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
LOL, the worst part of that is it could be very essential information, and it could easily be a red herring.
I infrequently read their newspaper column and a couple of times their answers were dead wrong, so after that I had little use for them.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Now that the show is out of production, I think they use recycled bits from random ancient times. Caller calls in with an 88 Corolla, 50K miles on it...taped in 199-what?