What factors would unhinge that relationship? NONE that I can think of?
IF RUG/PUG is NOT going away, neither is diesel. All one needs to do is to look at the EIA.gov's " What Is In A Barrel Of Oil".
OR break through technology where a barrel of oil where it will only yield 100% RUG/PUG and/or diesel. Baring that gasoline and diesel are the natural parts of refining.
Diesel is taxed more because it's mostly used by semis and they pay more because they cause more damage to the roads. Maybe we need some passenger car dye for diesel.
Ok, rough guess is that 70% of the cabs at LAX are Prii; there were some other Toyotas (maybe Camry hybrids ) and I spotted a Caravan and a classic Town Car.
Prius are popular with cab companies because they are extremely reliable and they do well in city driving. Sure, fuel costs count, but down time is far worse than losing a few MPG.
Diesels would be great for those airport shuttle vans, if they were sound-insulated.
If they were listening, they would bring a Tacoma with a 2.5L diesel. The Tundra will be too big for most contractor needs and too light for really heavy hauling. Ram diesel is a much better combo, yet still more than I would want in a PU with diesel. Cummins is a wise choice though.
Filling my Touareg yesterday, the guy on the other side of the pump was filling a HUGE Ram Duelly diesel. He asked how I liked my diesel and of course I told him. When it got to MPG he could only claim 19 MPG. When I told him the worst tank I have had was just under 23 MPG and most up close to 30 he was envious. Of course I don't plan to pull a 30k lb trailer like the Duelly is capable of.
@gagrice said:
Filling my Touareg yesterday, the guy on the other side of the pump was filling a HUGE Ram Duelly diesel. He asked how I liked my diesel and of course I told him. When it got to MPG he could only claim 19 MPG. When I told him the worst tank I have had was just under 23 MPG and most up close to 30 he was envious. Of course I don't plan to pull a 30k lb trailer like the Duelly is capable of.
I think if I could "cherry pick", they would be a V8 Cummins TDI/and Tremec (TR 6070) 7 speed transmission (latest iteration 450 # ft and +). Given a sub 3200# weight, there are probably not to many reasons why H EPA can't be 29 mpg and above.
This would also be MONSTER in some kind of frankensteined Touareg/Macan/Q5 .(aka, I know this platform can handle this level of torque)
While I haven't towed much in a VERY long time, it is still amazing to me the VW T TDI can tow 7,500#'s to 7,700 #'s
@ruking1 said:
Finally the pinochio nature shows up and by the very same folks who have been telling you it's the right thing to do. !! ??
..."The U.S. Energy Information Administration recently reported that improving fuel economy standards for vehicles actually produce diminishing returns in fuel savings."...
They do say that diesel is more expensive. They conveniently leave out one reason is because the FED, State, County and local governments charge more TAXES on diesel. If they charged the same, diesel would actually be CHEAPER !! ?? IF they charged less than RUG/PUG, dah CHEAPER STILL. I guess to be a government editor does not require much thought in logical consequences.
I predict only one response from the Government - increase the cost of gasoline so that people feel forced to buy more efficient vehicles.
Gerdes and the Taylors would have fun with that one for sure. Every mileage record worth talking about is held by diesel and now diesel hybrids. When will people wake up and smell the diesel. I am planning my Fall trip to Yellowstone before it blows. I will only need to fill once in Utah for that trip. Then again in Oregon for the return down the coast. I can drive 5000 miles for less than an airplane ticket that far. And I get to take my wife for free, one heck of a deal.
Airline ticket prices and the "ancillary" prices to get to and from are constantly rising also. Don't forget the hidden and transparent fees and taxes. Anyone who has recently traveled by air can vouch for the fact that there are literally more ancillary prices and those keep rising also in ADDITION to airline "ticket" prices.
Speaking of rising prices, VWoA covered cost of the 09 Jetta TDI's new fuel pump. I had heard in passing the repair was covered under "goodwill". The battery (@ 5th year, the dealer gave to me at OTC discount parts price and no labor) was also replaced (owner covered) , as was an ignition switch which was diagnosed to be intermittently shorting ("cheap" part 3 hours labor) In all fairness these two are probably not "diesel" related. But hey, let the thread readers be the judge.
I have also read in passing the fuel pump has undergone reliability and durability upgrades, resulting in a different part #. Another 100,000 miles and hopefully the LIFE time mileage will be the real test.
@gagrice said:
Gerdes and the Taylors would have fun with that one for sure. Every mileage record worth talking about is held by diesel and now diesel hybrids. When will people wake up and smell the diesel. I am planning my Fall trip to Yellowstone before it blows. I will only need to fill once in Utah for that trip. Then again in Oregon for the return down the coast. I can drive 5000 miles for less than an airplane ticket that far. And I get to take my wife for free, one heck of a deal.
I think it is funny that hybrid supporters FORGET, to want to deny that diesels have the app 30% + advantage. More importantly, gasser technology has not overcome this to OVERTAKEN this mated to ANY market available product. They also want to deny that the underlying precept as been emissions no greater than GASSERS in accordance with almost capricious rules.
I mean it is almost an ignorant argument that Prius (gasser/hybrid) posts the BEST mpg over diesels. Sure 50 mpg is better than 45 mpg. Sure, that is why they do not do a Prius TDI hybrid !!! With a Prius diesel hybrid then that would be 65 mpg vs 50 mpg (gasser hybrid) !!!!!
@ruking1 said:
Airline ticket prices and the "ancillary" prices to get to and from are constantly rising also. Anyone who has recently traveled by air can vouch for the fact that there are literally more ancillary prices and those keeping also in ADDITION to airline "ticket" prices.
Good to hear VW covered their defective fuel pump.
I didn't set out to actually PROVE that it (was@ the time) cheaper and also same time to NO time savings, but I/we did it for 3 straight years in trips from SJO to Portland, OR, area. Almost all three times we arrived at the hotels at literally and figuratively the same times. (650 miles 48 mpg 14 gal @ todays 4 per =$56.) Folks left from one to three Bay Area Airports. We also stopped for lunch and separate fuel stop. One year we had a two car caravan !! It was a hoot. We had to stop 2 more times due to shorter range of the gasser SUV. Even with that, SAME time as plane takers. We stopped in a place called WEED for a picnic lunch. The girls (teenage) had this thing about taking a picture next to the sign WEED and showing the other team mates. (airplane takers).
In other years, I also did this going to Las Vegas, aka almost the same result. The insult to injury was I was asked to PU one airplane passenger who literally left the same time and I had to WAIT @ McCarren Airport !!!
I should have (for the purposes this thread) told her to suck it up and take a cab, I just ordered an umbrellaed drink, waist deep in the pool.
@ruking1 said:
In other years, I also did this going to Las Vegas, aka almost the same result. The insult to injury was I was asked to PU one passenger who literally left the same time and I had to WAIT @ McCarren Airport !!! I should have (for the purposes this thread told her to suck it up and take a cab, I just ordered an umbrellaed drink, waist deep in the pool.
Too funny. My last flight to LV was my last flight to LV. I hate that airport. Getting your luggage and a rental car is hell. The exhaust fumes in the lower level is unbearable. For the price of two roundtrip tickets, $164 each, I can drive the Touareg more than 3 round trips to Vegas. And not spend anymore time doing it. With high mileage diesels today road trips are much more pleasurable. No TSA proctologist to deal with, no delays or cancelled flights. I have over a million actual air miles and other than going to Hawaii, I am not likely to fly unless I have to.
Feel free to donate some of those miles to your buds. I wouldn't mind another trip to Bethel before our friend moves. I could stand a week in Oahu I suppose.
Vegas won't be on the radar, burning oil or gas or jet fuel.
@stever said:
Feel free to donate some of those miles to your buds. I wouldn't mind another trip to Bethel before our friend moves. I could stand a week in Oahu I suppose.
Vegas won't be on the radar, burning oil or gas or jet fuel.
I only have 60k+ left on AK Air. Gave some to my daughter in law to fly back to AK. I used up my miles on discount tickets traveling from work to home. That was the wisest use until they changed some of the rules. Get 50% off and still get full mileage plus bonus miles for being Gold. I always got free First Class upgrades. By 2006 there were so many Gold card holders it was getting tough to get a seat in First class. Then all the TSA BS, and it helped me decide to hang it up and retire. 9/11 ruined flying in this country.
Low fuel lamp on the GLK 250 B/T came on during the very last part of the upgrade portion of the SOS/DD trek. Computer posted 34 mpg. Left for the trek about 55%+ consumed of the tank full. Had an interesting drive in the mountains, as I ran with a 5 ship of folks who seem to know what they were doing. I passed a few fledging wanna be mtn drivers on the right as they LLC'd. It is just gorgeous today !! And its 75 F degrees ! Filled 14.5/15.6, 489 miles or 33.72 mph. So the computer is pretty accurate.
I just got confirmation the new fuel pump (and ancillary repairs) are functioning just fine.
I canceled my AK Air affinity card; rather get the % back on a different card instead of air miles now.
@ruking1, I'm really happy to hear how VW treated you. My sister had all sorts of problems with her '00 New Beetle but around year eight, someone must have read the riot act to the dealer or VW started reimbursing dealers to help keep customers happy. She had "known" issues too - the typical power window issues so maybe that was part of it. In any event the dealer finally made her happy by fixing the windows and something else (CEL I think).
Upshot is that she's not quite ready to buy another VW.
Today's taxi ride was in a Prius C and I rode shotgun and got to chat up the driver about the dash cam. Haven't noticed them in the other cabs but you'd think they'd be required equipment (I probably just didn't notice them before).
This unit had front and rear views (all us unruly passengers have to behave ourselves now).
Prius C cab? I hope it was cheap! My friend who has one pretty much hopes and prays daily that a tree falls on it (nobody would steal it). That car alone proves the difference between hybrid and diesel. It's great in town, pretty awful on the highway.
And integrated dashcams should at least be optional on all modern cars by now.
Today's taxi ride was in a Prius C and I rode shotgun and got to chat up the driver about the dash cam. Haven't noticed them in the other cabs but you'd think they'd be required equipment (I probably just didn't notice them before).
This unit had front and rear views (all us unruly passengers have to behave ourselves now).
@stever said:
This afternoon's ride was in a plug-in hybrid Prius. I think I've about hit them all now.
So what is the range of that Prius plug in? @ what mileage per KWH?
I can't tell you the full court press electrical energy consumption receives in CA and @ almost all public and private and economic levels! . So much so, it is both anathema and disingenuous to add that to the consumption pattern. It is not even a mixed message. Yet they make it next to impossible to economically prohibitive to go off the grid, or heaven help you , to supplement the grid.
ANY electrical consumption for "TRANSPORTATION" is NOT billed in the "BASELINE". There are no tax credits. IT is billed in the "PENALTY" consumption bracket, although, that is not what they call it, but SAME difference !!!!
Pretty soon they will probably issue felony warrants for payable fines for an electrical energy consumer who doesn't toe the enviro con party line du jour. :@ The plug in INSTANTLY puts one in the PENALTY BOX.
Cheapest gas I spotted was $3.99 for RUG, cash only. Otherwise it was running $4.12 and up. Didn't see any signage sporting diesel prices, but only cruised around in a limited area.
The only solar spotted was landing on some talking head on TV complaining about the companies offering "free" solar deals - just pay a (hopefully lower) monthly electric bill while the leasing company keeps all your tax credits. The talking head was selling systems I guess - I surfed on to the next channel after a minute.
@stever said:
The only solar spotted was landing on some talking head on TV complaining about the companies offering "free" solar deals - just pay a (hopefully lower) monthly electric bill while the leasing company keeps all your tax credits. The talking head was selling systems I guess - I surfed on to the next channel after a minute.
Steve, my folks installed solar panels on their house just NW of LA last year. I understand that they actually sell some of their electricity back to the utility each month, so for them there is no monthly bill.
I think the cost of the hardware and installation was pretty steep, however.
Lots of states are kowtowing to the electric utilities now too and charging excessive fees just to connect to the grid, even if you don't consume much of the grid power thanks to your panels.
@stever said:
Lots of states are kowtowing to the electric utilities now too and charging excessive fees just to connect to the grid, even if you don't consume much of the grid power thanks to your panels.
There are a lot of solar companies that lease you the system. You are set up on a flat rate and that is all you pay each month for electricity. Not sure how they come up with the price. If I had solar I would have my AC right now as it is hotter than H*** outside and over 80 degrees inside. That is the only system I would consider. No upfront installation charges. You just pay the company each month. Any problems they come and fix it. My wife's grandson in Simi Valley has that deal. And they keep their house too cool for me.
Talked to a guy at the Library book store that has a 2012 Prius V. He loves it. Traded his 2004 Prius to get more room. Gets 40 around town and 43 on the highway. It looks mighty small to me. I don't think I want anything smaller than the T-Reg.
@gagrice said:
Talked to a guy at the Library book store that has a 2012 Prius V. He loves it. Traded his 2004 Prius to get more room. Gets 40 around town and 43 on the highway. It looks mighty small to me. I don't think I want anything smaller than the T-Reg.
Actually your post had me thinking about a corollary to the thread's title, being :
"What Would It Take For You To Switch From Diesel ?"
Given the Jetta, Golf, Passat (TDI's, yes I wish more to all oems had diesel options), I would not switch to a Prius (gasser hybrid) . On mpg alone, it is pretty much a wash.
Fuelly.com lists mpg of 20.4/31.2 for the GLK 350/250 B/T. The GLK 250 B/T posting app 53% better mpg.
The figures are skewed a little bit, (GLK 250 B/T would get even better mpg if it came also in 2 wheel drive) in that the GLK 350 comes in 4matic/2 wheel drive vs GLK 250 B/T which comes only in 4 magic. Would I switch to the gasser version? No.
VW Touareg comes also in gasser and SUPERCHARGER hybrid models. No switch to either from VW T TDI diesel also.
How about a diesel motocycle. Seems the Marines are converting their gas to diesels designed and built in CA. How many motorcycles offer 96 MPG? You may have to wait for the civilian model until they catch up with the USMC orders.
Based on a Kawasaki KLR650 the 584cc engine is designed to run on either diesel or aviation kerosene. Some parts from the original engine, such as the generator, have been used on the new machine in order to save money but essentially this motorcycles engine is completely new. This makes this machine completely unique, it being the first purpose built diesel motorcycle engine ever built.
@xwesx said:
Really sad that the military version is 0-60 in ~5.7s, civilian model is 0-60 in ~9.3s.
9.3?!
I would want to use it as more of a Trials bike, or just cruising cross country. My SIL had a Yamaha 650 that would never get over 35 MPG. His only reason for owning it was getting through the horrible rush hour traffic faster.
I think at 71 my MC days are past, I like the comfort of the Touareg.
"Sales of clean-diesel vehicles in the first half of 2014 have increased by 25 percent over last year, according to Edmunds data and the Diesel Technology Forum.
That compares to a 4.2 percent increase in the U.S. car market as a whole."
@stever said:
"Sales of clean-diesel vehicles in the first half of 2014 have increased by 25 percent over last year, according to Edmunds data and the Diesel Technology Forum.
That compares to a 4.2 percent increase in the U.S. car market as a whole."
I see that as a real positive. I am glad the Jeep GC Diesel is grabbing a good share. It really is a beautiful vehicle. I will do a comparison when and if I ever trade my Touareg.
43 mpg, motoring back on the down grade leg (213 miles) of SOS/DD.
BUT if we factor in the previous full tank fill @ 34 mpg, the SOS/DD R/T is 38.5 mpg.
( GLK 250 B/T computer only, 4.9 gal est consumed/15.6 gal, 48.6 mpg out of the mountains for app 90 miles light to fair amount of traffic) .
The A/C was blasting most of the time, as it topped 101 F degrees in and around ( before) Davis, CA. I also had Pandora streaming the whole time. Will fill when low fuel lamp lights.
@ruking1 said:
43 mpg, motoring back on the down grade leg (213 miles) of SOS/DD.
BUT if we factor in the previous full tank fill @ 34 mpg, the SOS/DD R/T is 38.5 mpg.
( GLK 250 B/T computer only, 4.9 gal est consumed/15.6 gal, 48.6 mpg out of the mountains for app 90 miles light to fair amount of traffic) .
The A/C was blasting most of the time, as it topped 101 F degrees in and around ( before) Davis, CA. I also had Pandora streaming the whole time. Will fill when low fuel lamp lights.
I hope folks have GREAT weekend.
So the above mpg (avg) on the SOS/DD R/T is app 81% better than the MB 350 in Fuelly.com. However, without a A/B like model side by side test, I am really enjoying the 2.1 L ( I4 ULSD) twin turbo diesel product.
This is purely a snap shot for the MB 250 B/T, as it is both anecdotal (I know I can do FAR better/worse ) and of shorter term mileage (less than 8,000 miles, mpg tends to get better, all the way up to 30,000-50,000 miles).
So based on the MINUS - $ 500. cheaper MSRP on the diesel (MB 250 B/T), the GLK 350 (premium gasser) will not B/E, either on price per gal ( $4.17 premium vs $4.09 ULSD, in the case of $3.80 RUG, 1,724 gals= app 57,000 miles ), nor cost per mile driven.
I could of course, run the same trip in someone's 14 GLK 350 4 matic. I think even the skeptics know it is/ would be a forgone conclusion, on the mpg issue.
So purely from a "LOGIC" point of view, VERY gutsy moves by MB, (VW, BMW, etc ) for putting that (those) diesel product/s out there. MB SEEMS to be the only oem to have priced the (like model, 250 BT anyway) diesel cheaper. Again, correct me if I am wrong here. However, I am sure MB will sell its targeted share of (gassers) GLK 350's.
There is no doubt in my mind the 3.5 L ( V6 gasser, PUG)) engine is a VERY fine product.
SIDEBAR:
To wit, IF MB did a 3.5 L V6 twin turbo diesel, it would literally be MONSTER ! The combination would probably have to be frankensteined in major ways !!
Of course, the mpg would drop ( to something like Touareg levels) !! ?? 615 # ft of torque would almost be silly.
Took a ~120 mile drive this morning, trip computer claimed 43.9mpg. I always assume it is optimistic, so I will call it 40mpg. Not bad for such a comfortable ride.
@fintail said:
Took a ~120 mile drive this morning, trip computer claimed 43.9mpg. I always assume it is optimistic, so I will call it 40mpg. Not bad for such a comfortable ride.
Indeed! However, I would tend NOT to doubt that it varies much @ that time. Easy to really test: just do a fill. But if you are no where near needing to fill, why ? (losing the advantage of filling less often) You also do not have the structural issue of "4 matic". Those are all good in my estimation.
@ruking1 said:
Indeed! However, I would tend NOT to doubt that it varies much @ that time. Easy to really test: just do a fill. But if you are no where near needing to fill, why ? (losing the advantage of filling less often) You also do not have the structural issue of "4 matic". Those are all good in my estimation.
I have found over many vehicles bought and sold. If a vehicle is available in AWD and you opt for 2WD, it is a tough sell. Especially in an SUV or large PU truck. I don't think the modern AWD vehicles have near the mileage loss of the old 4X4 systems with heavy transfer case. The Sequoia had a much higher resale with 4WD after 6 years. The difference was more than the added cost when new.
@gagrice said:
I have found over many vehicles bought and sold. If a vehicle is available in AWD and you opt for 2WD, it is a tough sell. Especially in an SUV or large PU truck. I don't think the modern AWD vehicles have near the mileage loss of the old 4X4 systems with heavy transfer case. The Sequoia had a much higher resale with 4WD after 6 years. The difference was more than the added cost when new.
I know you are right on all three counts! 4 matic in a CUV, is the way to go for resale concerns. The diesel (250 BT) only comes with 4 matic. I probably would not have gotten this model, if it were not for the CA chain controls requirement. But at the same time, the up charges for the sedans with the 2.1 L T TDI engine (with 2 wd) are substantial. So... for me anyway, it all the pieces came together. The MINUS - $500 for the (diesel vs gasser) 4 matic..... icing ! I almost am sure the diesels will command a premium @ resale. Since Tahoe is almost a no brainer destination (NorCal) a 2 wd during winter would not probably cut it.
I was comparing curb weights and they post 4,068 #'s (PUG 2 wd) , 4,123 #'s (PUG 4 matic) , 4,246 #'s (ULSD 4 matic). So diesel seems to add app 68#'s and 4 matic app 55#'s to = 123#;s. This difference (+ 55#'s) can easily account for the 1 mpg H EPA difference for the gassers 2 wd vs 4 matic. What it would do in a diesel, to me anyway is unknown. I do however think it would be much better.
Sounds good, I would not get one for a couple years. This is not the same engine being sold in other parts of the World. We know from the last Jeep fiasco in the Liberty diesel, you don't just slap a bunch of emissions crap on and expect it to be a great engine. If we could ever get our act together on emissions with the EU it would make it easier to design engines.
Less issues of reliability, durability and mpg, etc. would surface if the US market used the European standards (for diesel) Almost anything (European) is real world tested for M' s of miles and literally YEARS before they hit the US markets.
This is NEGATED when they are made to make the "US " market version/s. IF one listens to the US anti diesel sentiment, you would think there are NO emissions standards in the EU ! By default, they are also driving all the 10 to 15 mpg gas guzzlers !!! Both sentiments are patently FALSE !
It's not a question of comparing "strictness" because you can't---we and the Europeans control different aspects of the diesel emission package. In general terms, my research seems to show that the USA has the strictest controls on overall diesel emissions in the world--for better or worse? I'm not qualified to judge.
There's going to be the results of a big study by the Health Effects Institute on whether diesel emissions should be classified as a known carcinogen or not---this will either defy the California Air Resources Board's conclusions, and the World Health Organizations conclusions, and thus encourage American automakers to field more diesel cars into their mix...OR..it will verify the conclusion that the EU has in essence, failed to curb diesel emissions to the extent necessary for public health. In that latter case, that would not be good news for the American diesel car market.
The key question might be the credibility of the "Health Effects Institute" and any money trail contained therein. Any study from any group that is addicted to public funds will also likely be constructed with ample negligence, and not differentiate between a 1984 diesel and a 2014 diesel.
@Mr_Shiftright said:
It's not a question of comparing "strictness" because you can't---we and the Europeans control different aspects of the diesel emission package. In general terms, my research seems to show that the USA has the strictest controls on overall diesel emissions in the world--for better or worse? I'm not qualified to judge.
There's going to be the results of a big study by the Health Effects Institute on whether diesel emissions should be classified as a known carcinogen or not---this will either defy the California Air Resources Board's conclusions, and the World Health Organizations conclusions, and thus encourage American automakers to field more diesel cars into their mix...OR..it will verify the conclusion that the EU has in essence, failed to curb diesel emissions to the extent necessary for public health. In that latter case, that would not be good news for the American diesel car market.
That is not true at all. The EPA, et al. takes it upon itself to do JUST that !! ??? Your assertion cancels out what you say they/( I) can't do.
In effect that is what I said. The real issue is whether or not those overrides are statistically significant, they conveniently IGNORE that!! So in effect, those studies are not seminal studies and/or issues.
So if I could wave the magic wand and outfit the less than 2.5% of the passenger diesel car fleet with EU emissions controls, the change in smog would be not measurable, say in the LA area, or even the SF Bay Area.
@fintail said:
The key question might be the credibility of the "Health Effects Institute" and any money trail contained therein. Any study from any group that is addicted to public funds will also likely be constructed with ample negligence, and not differentiate between a 1984 diesel and a 2014 diesel.
Indeed !! VOODOO science is becoming the dominant so called "SCIENTIFIC" operating protocols !! I am beginning to think we get more truth (and entertainment) from Cable TV's s' World Wrestling franchises !!!
Here are a couple of easy ones.
"difficulty of removing" (not putting ???????) lead in R/P LEADED gasoline
MANDATING MTBE based on "overwhelming scientific study and evidence" with massive conversion costs
Added REMOVAL costs (which we ALL STILL pay and will for an unknown forward period ) for the dismal ($$'s ) failure of MTBE and at almost EVERY metric.
massive remediation costs
ethanol and its plethora of deleterious effects.
What is in the wings: the DE sulfurization of diesel (from 500 ppm/140 ppm CA) to 15 ppm so called ULSD (with ULSD nominally delivered @ 5 to 10 ppm sulfur) has been SO successful that the enviro cons are looking forward to cutting RUG/PUG down from 30 ppm to 90 ppm sulfur to the SAME as diesel, aka 15 ppm sulfur. This will of course drive the price per gal of RUG/PUG UPWARDS of 7 to 15 cents per gal !!! The B/E points for further removal is probably generational (biblical ten) :@ So EVEN if they're successful in that implementation, ULSD will STILL be cleaner than RUG/PUG, however insignificantly statistically INSIGNICANT.
This will probably also cause damage to current RUG/PUG cars, so reengineering (read many more BUX $$$) will have to be done and remanufactured going forward.
Comments
What factors would unhinge that relationship? NONE that I can think of?
IF RUG/PUG is NOT going away, neither is diesel. All one needs to do is to look at the EIA.gov's " What Is In A Barrel Of Oil".
OR break through technology where a barrel of oil where it will only yield 100% RUG/PUG and/or diesel. Baring that gasoline and diesel are the natural parts of refining.
Diesel is taxed more because it's mostly used by semis and they pay more because they cause more damage to the roads. Maybe we need some passenger car dye for diesel.
Ok, rough guess is that 70% of the cabs at LAX are Prii; there were some other Toyotas (maybe Camry hybrids
) and I spotted a Caravan and a classic Town Car.
Prius are popular with cab companies because they are extremely reliable and they do well in city driving. Sure, fuel costs count, but down time is far worse than losing a few MPG.
Diesels would be great for those airport shuttle vans, if they were sound-insulated.
Cummins 5.0 L option for the Toyota Tundra?
http://blog.caranddriver.com/toyota-tundra-does-a-titan-move-turns-to-cummins-for-a-diesel-v-8/
They must be listening to us !!
If they were listening, they would bring a Tacoma with a 2.5L diesel. The Tundra will be too big for most contractor needs and too light for really heavy hauling. Ram diesel is a much better combo, yet still more than I would want in a PU with diesel. Cummins is a wise choice though.
Filling my Touareg yesterday, the guy on the other side of the pump was filling a HUGE Ram Duelly diesel. He asked how I liked my diesel and of course I told him. When it got to MPG he could only claim 19 MPG. When I told him the worst tank I have had was just under 23 MPG and most up close to 30 he was envious. Of course I don't plan to pull a 30k lb trailer like the Duelly is capable of.
I think if I could "cherry pick", they would be a V8 Cummins TDI/and Tremec (TR 6070) 7 speed transmission (latest iteration 450 # ft and +). Given a sub 3200# weight, there are probably not to many reasons why H EPA can't be 29 mpg and above.
This would also be MONSTER in some kind of frankensteined Touareg/Macan/Q5 .(aka, I know this platform can handle this level of torque)
While I haven't towed much in a VERY long time, it is still amazing to me the VW T TDI can tow 7,500#'s to 7,700 #'s
Funny how the (FOREIGN) democrats WANT the Keystone Pipe Line ! ?
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/07/22/why-canada-would-rather-export-oil-than-refine-it.aspx?source=ihpsitota0000001&lidx=7
I predict only one response from the Government - increase the cost of gasoline so that people feel forced to buy more efficient vehicles.
Makes sense for Canada. New York City is so clean because it sends its messy stuff way far away.
Mercedes Goes from Africa to the U.K. on One Tank of Fuel - and not a tinny little car, either.
Gerdes and the Taylors would have fun with that one for sure. Every mileage record worth talking about is held by diesel and now diesel hybrids. When will people wake up and smell the diesel. I am planning my Fall trip to Yellowstone before it blows. I will only need to fill once in Utah for that trip. Then again in Oregon for the return down the coast. I can drive 5000 miles for less than an airplane ticket that far. And I get to take my wife for free, one heck of a deal.
Airline ticket prices and the "ancillary" prices to get to and from are constantly rising also. Don't forget the hidden and transparent fees and taxes. Anyone who has recently traveled by air can vouch for the fact that there are literally more ancillary prices and those keep rising also in ADDITION to airline "ticket" prices.
Speaking of rising prices, VWoA covered cost of the 09 Jetta TDI's new fuel pump. I had heard in passing the repair was covered under "goodwill". The battery (@ 5th year, the dealer gave to me at OTC discount parts price and no labor) was also replaced (owner covered) , as was an ignition switch which was diagnosed to be intermittently shorting ("cheap" part 3 hours labor) In all fairness these two are probably not "diesel" related. But hey, let the thread readers be the judge.
I have also read in passing the fuel pump has undergone reliability and durability upgrades, resulting in a different part #. Another 100,000 miles and hopefully the LIFE time mileage will be the real test.
Good to hear!
I think it is funny that hybrid supporters FORGET, to want to deny that diesels have the app 30% + advantage. More importantly, gasser technology has not overcome this to OVERTAKEN this mated to ANY market available product. They also want to deny that the underlying precept as been emissions no greater than GASSERS in accordance with almost capricious rules.
I mean it is almost an ignorant argument that Prius (gasser/hybrid) posts the BEST mpg over diesels. Sure 50 mpg is better than 45 mpg. Sure, that is why they do not do a Prius TDI hybrid !!! With a Prius diesel hybrid then that would be 65 mpg vs 50 mpg (gasser hybrid) !!!!!
Good to hear VW covered their defective fuel pump.
You should try pricing a flight into the Eugene airport. Always about double to flying into Portland and driving 2 hours...
I didn't set out to actually PROVE that it (was@ the time) cheaper and also same time to NO time savings, but I/we did it for 3 straight years in trips from SJO to Portland, OR, area. Almost all three times we arrived at the hotels at literally and figuratively the same times. (650 miles 48 mpg 14 gal @ todays 4 per =$56.) Folks left from one to three Bay Area Airports. We also stopped for lunch and separate fuel stop. One year we had a two car caravan !! It was a hoot. We had to stop 2 more times due to shorter range of the gasser SUV. Even with that, SAME time as plane takers. We stopped in a place called WEED for a picnic lunch. The girls (teenage) had this thing about taking a picture next to the sign WEED and showing the other team mates. (airplane takers).
In other years, I also did this going to Las Vegas, aka almost the same result. The insult to injury was I was asked to PU one airplane passenger who literally left the same time and I had to WAIT @ McCarren Airport !!!
I should have (for the purposes this thread) told her to suck it up and take a cab, I just ordered an umbrellaed drink, waist deep in the pool.
Too funny. My last flight to LV was my last flight to LV. I hate that airport. Getting your luggage and a rental car is hell. The exhaust fumes in the lower level is unbearable. For the price of two roundtrip tickets, $164 each, I can drive the Touareg more than 3 round trips to Vegas. And not spend anymore time doing it. With high mileage diesels today road trips are much more pleasurable. No TSA proctologist to deal with, no delays or cancelled flights. I have over a million actual air miles and other than going to Hawaii, I am not likely to fly unless I have to.
Feel free to donate some of those miles to your buds. I wouldn't mind another trip to Bethel before our friend moves. I could stand a week in Oahu I suppose.
Vegas won't be on the radar, burning oil or gas or jet fuel.
I only have 60k+ left on AK Air. Gave some to my daughter in law to fly back to AK. I used up my miles on discount tickets traveling from work to home. That was the wisest use until they changed some of the rules. Get 50% off and still get full mileage plus bonus miles for being Gold. I always got free First Class upgrades. By 2006 there were so many Gold card holders it was getting tough to get a seat in First class. Then all the TSA BS, and it helped me decide to hang it up and retire. 9/11 ruined flying in this country.
Low fuel lamp on the GLK 250 B/T came on during the very last part of the upgrade portion of the SOS/DD trek. Computer posted 34 mpg. Left for the trek about 55%+ consumed of the tank full. Had an interesting drive in the mountains, as I ran with a 5 ship of folks who seem to know what they were doing. I passed a few fledging wanna be mtn drivers on the right as they LLC'd. It is just gorgeous today !! And its 75 F degrees ! Filled 14.5/15.6, 489 miles or 33.72 mph. So the computer is pretty accurate.
I just got confirmation the new fuel pump (and ancillary repairs) are functioning just fine.
I canceled my AK Air affinity card; rather get the % back on a different card instead of air miles now.
@ruking1, I'm really happy to hear how VW treated you. My sister had all sorts of problems with her '00 New Beetle but around year eight, someone must have read the riot act to the dealer or VW started reimbursing dealers to help keep customers happy. She had "known" issues too - the typical power window issues so maybe that was part of it. In any event the dealer finally made her happy by fixing the windows and something else (CEL I think).
Upshot is that she's not quite ready to buy another VW.
But I would....
Oh, where's Fintail?
Today's taxi ride was in a Prius C and I rode shotgun and got to chat up the driver about the dash cam. Haven't noticed them in the other cabs but you'd think they'd be required equipment (I probably just didn't notice them before).
This unit had front and rear views (all us unruly passengers have to behave ourselves now).
Prius C cab? I hope it was cheap! My friend who has one pretty much hopes and prays daily that a tree falls on it (nobody would steal it). That car alone proves the difference between hybrid and diesel. It's great in town, pretty awful on the highway.
And integrated dashcams should at least be optional on all modern cars by now.
This afternoon's ride was in a plug-in hybrid Prius. I think I've about hit them all now.
So what is the range of that Prius plug in? @ what mileage per KWH?
I can't tell you the full court press electrical energy consumption receives in CA and @ almost all public and private and economic levels! . So much so, it is both anathema and disingenuous to add that to the consumption pattern. It is not even a mixed message. Yet they make it next to impossible to economically prohibitive to go off the grid, or heaven help you , to supplement the grid.
ANY electrical consumption for "TRANSPORTATION" is NOT billed in the "BASELINE". There are no tax credits. IT is billed in the "PENALTY" consumption bracket, although, that is not what they call it, but SAME difference !!!!
Pretty soon they will probably issue felony warrants for payable fines for an electrical energy consumer who doesn't toe the enviro con party line du jour.
:@ The plug in INSTANTLY puts one in the PENALTY BOX.
The cab driver had no clue. I don't either, lol.
Cheapest gas I spotted was $3.99 for RUG, cash only. Otherwise it was running $4.12 and up. Didn't see any signage sporting diesel prices, but only cruised around in a limited area.
The only solar spotted was landing on some talking head on TV complaining about the companies offering "free" solar deals - just pay a (hopefully lower) monthly electric bill while the leasing company keeps all your tax credits. The talking head was selling systems I guess - I surfed on to the next channel after a minute.
Steve, my folks installed solar panels on their house just NW of LA last year. I understand that they actually sell some of their electricity back to the utility each month, so for them there is no monthly bill.
I think the cost of the hardware and installation was pretty steep, however.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
Lots of states are kowtowing to the electric utilities now too and charging excessive fees just to connect to the grid, even if you don't consume much of the grid power thanks to your panels.
There are a lot of solar companies that lease you the system. You are set up on a flat rate and that is all you pay each month for electricity. Not sure how they come up with the price. If I had solar I would have my AC right now as it is hotter than H*** outside and over 80 degrees inside. That is the only system I would consider. No upfront installation charges. You just pay the company each month. Any problems they come and fix it. My wife's grandson in Simi Valley has that deal. And they keep their house too cool for me.
Talked to a guy at the Library book store that has a 2012 Prius V. He loves it. Traded his 2004 Prius to get more room. Gets 40 around town and 43 on the highway. It looks mighty small to me. I don't think I want anything smaller than the T-Reg.
Actually your post had me thinking about a corollary to the thread's title, being :
"What Would It Take For You To Switch From Diesel ?"
Given the Jetta, Golf, Passat (TDI's, yes I wish more to all oems had diesel options), I would not switch to a Prius (gasser hybrid) . On mpg alone, it is pretty much a wash.
Fuelly.com lists mpg of 20.4/31.2 for the GLK 350/250 B/T. The GLK 250 B/T posting app 53% better mpg.
The figures are skewed a little bit, (GLK 250 B/T would get even better mpg if it came also in 2 wheel drive) in that the GLK 350 comes in 4matic/2 wheel drive vs GLK 250 B/T which comes only in 4 magic. Would I switch to the gasser version? No.
VW Touareg comes also in gasser and SUPERCHARGER hybrid models. No switch to either from VW T TDI diesel also.
How about a diesel motocycle. Seems the Marines are converting their gas to diesels designed and built in CA. How many motorcycles offer 96 MPG? You may have to wait for the civilian model until they catch up with the USMC orders.
Based on a Kawasaki KLR650 the 584cc engine is designed to run on either diesel or aviation kerosene. Some parts from the original engine, such as the generator, have been used on the new machine in order to save money but essentially this motorcycles engine is completely new. This makes this machine completely unique, it being the first purpose built diesel motorcycle engine ever built.
http://www.dieselmotorcycles.com/company.html
http://guerrantwebworks.com/hdt/models.htm
Really sad that the military version is 0-60 in ~5.7s, civilian model is 0-60 in ~9.3s.
9.3?!
I bet it aint cheap.
I would want to use it as more of a Trials bike, or just cruising cross country. My SIL had a Yamaha 650 that would never get over 35 MPG. His only reason for owning it was getting through the horrible rush hour traffic faster.
I think at 71 my MC days are past, I like the comfort of the Touareg.
"Sales of clean-diesel vehicles in the first half of 2014 have increased by 25 percent over last year, according to Edmunds data and the Diesel Technology Forum.
That compares to a 4.2 percent increase in the U.S. car market as a whole."
U.S. Diesel Sales Increase by 25 Percent in First Half of 2014
I see that as a real positive. I am glad the Jeep GC Diesel is grabbing a good share. It really is a beautiful vehicle. I will do a comparison when and if I ever trade my Touareg.
43 mpg, motoring back on the down grade leg (213 miles) of SOS/DD.
BUT if we factor in the previous full tank fill @ 34 mpg, the SOS/DD R/T is 38.5 mpg.
( GLK 250 B/T computer only, 4.9 gal est consumed/15.6 gal, 48.6 mpg out of the mountains for app 90 miles light to fair amount of traffic) .
The A/C was blasting most of the time, as it topped 101 F degrees in and around ( before) Davis, CA. I also had Pandora streaming the whole time. Will fill when low fuel lamp lights.
I hope folks have GREAT weekend.
So the above mpg (avg) on the SOS/DD R/T is app 81% better than the MB 350 in Fuelly.com. However, without a A/B like model side by side test, I am really enjoying the 2.1 L ( I4 ULSD) twin turbo diesel product.
This is purely a snap shot for the MB 250 B/T, as it is both anecdotal (I know I can do FAR better/worse ) and of shorter term mileage (less than 8,000 miles, mpg tends to get better, all the way up to 30,000-50,000 miles).
So based on the MINUS - $ 500. cheaper MSRP on the diesel (MB 250 B/T), the GLK 350 (premium gasser) will not B/E, either on price per gal ( $4.17 premium vs $4.09 ULSD, in the case of $3.80 RUG, 1,724 gals= app 57,000 miles ), nor cost per mile driven.
The EPA's:
GLK 250 24 C /33 H
GLK 350 19 C/ 24 H
GLK 350 19C / 25 H (2wd)
Fuelly.com lists
32.9 mpg ( avg 7 vehicles, 250 B/T)
21.23 mpg (avg 7 vehicles, 350 )
(diesel getting app 55% better mileage (than the {like model} gasser)
I could of course, run the same trip in someone's 14 GLK 350 4 matic. I think even the skeptics know it is/ would be a forgone conclusion, on the mpg issue.
So purely from a "LOGIC" point of view, VERY gutsy moves by MB, (VW, BMW, etc ) for putting that (those) diesel product/s out there. MB SEEMS to be the only oem to have priced the (like model, 250 BT anyway) diesel cheaper. Again, correct me if I am wrong here. However, I am sure MB will sell its targeted share of (gassers) GLK 350's.
There is no doubt in my mind the 3.5 L ( V6 gasser, PUG)) engine is a VERY fine product.
SIDEBAR:
To wit, IF MB did a 3.5 L V6 twin turbo diesel, it would literally be MONSTER ! The combination would probably have to be frankensteined in major ways !!
Of course, the mpg would drop ( to something like Touareg levels) !! ??
615 # ft of torque would almost be silly.
Took a ~120 mile drive this morning, trip computer claimed 43.9mpg. I always assume it is optimistic, so I will call it 40mpg. Not bad for such a comfortable ride.
Indeed! However, I would tend NOT to doubt that it varies much @ that time. Easy to really test: just do a fill. But if you are no where near needing to fill, why ? (losing the advantage of filling less often) You also do not have the structural issue of "4 matic". Those are all good in my estimation.
I have found over many vehicles bought and sold. If a vehicle is available in AWD and you opt for 2WD, it is a tough sell. Especially in an SUV or large PU truck. I don't think the modern AWD vehicles have near the mileage loss of the old 4X4 systems with heavy transfer case. The Sequoia had a much higher resale with 4WD after 6 years. The difference was more than the added cost when new.
I know you are right on all three counts! 4 matic in a CUV, is the way to go for resale concerns. The diesel (250 BT) only comes with 4 matic. I probably would not have gotten this model, if it were not for the CA chain controls requirement. But at the same time, the up charges for the sedans with the 2.1 L T TDI engine (with 2 wd) are substantial. So... for me anyway, it all the pieces came together. The MINUS - $500 for the (diesel vs gasser) 4 matic..... icing ! I almost am sure the diesels will command a premium @ resale. Since Tahoe is almost a no brainer destination (NorCal) a 2 wd during winter would not probably cut it.
I was comparing curb weights and they post 4,068 #'s (PUG 2 wd) , 4,123 #'s (PUG 4 matic) , 4,246 #'s (ULSD 4 matic). So diesel seems to add app 68#'s and 4 matic app 55#'s to = 123#;s. This difference (+ 55#'s) can easily account for the 1 mpg H EPA difference for the gassers 2 wd vs 4 matic. What it would do in a diesel, to me anyway is unknown. I do however think it would be much better.
2.8 L TDI Duramax 370# ft of torque !? NORTH of 28 mpg?
Interesting GM diesel read http://www.dieselworldmag.com/first-look-gms-2-8l-duramax-canyoncolorado-beyond
Sounds good, I would not get one for a couple years. This is not the same engine being sold in other parts of the World. We know from the last Jeep fiasco in the Liberty diesel, you don't just slap a bunch of emissions crap on and expect it to be a great engine. If we could ever get our act together on emissions with the EU it would make it easier to design engines.
Less issues of reliability, durability and mpg, etc. would surface if the US market used the European standards (for diesel) Almost anything (European) is real world tested for M' s of miles and literally YEARS before they hit the US markets.
This is NEGATED when they are made to make the "US " market version/s. IF one listens to the US anti diesel sentiment, you would think there are NO emissions standards in the EU ! By default, they are also driving all the 10 to 15 mpg gas guzzlers !!! Both sentiments are patently FALSE !
It's not a question of comparing "strictness" because you can't---we and the Europeans control different aspects of the diesel emission package. In general terms, my research seems to show that the USA has the strictest controls on overall diesel emissions in the world--for better or worse? I'm not qualified to judge.
There's going to be the results of a big study by the Health Effects Institute on whether diesel emissions should be classified as a known carcinogen or not---this will either defy the California Air Resources Board's conclusions, and the World Health Organizations conclusions, and thus encourage American automakers to field more diesel cars into their mix...OR..it will verify the conclusion that the EU has in essence, failed to curb diesel emissions to the extent necessary for public health. In that latter case, that would not be good news for the American diesel car market.
The key question might be the credibility of the "Health Effects Institute" and any money trail contained therein. Any study from any group that is addicted to public funds will also likely be constructed with ample negligence, and not differentiate between a 1984 diesel and a 2014 diesel.
That is not true at all. The EPA, et al. takes it upon itself to do JUST that !! ??? Your assertion cancels out what you say they/( I) can't do.
In effect that is what I said. The real issue is whether or not those overrides are statistically significant, they conveniently IGNORE that!! So in effect, those studies are not seminal studies and/or issues.
So if I could wave the magic wand and outfit the less than 2.5% of the passenger diesel car fleet with EU emissions controls, the change in smog would be not measurable, say in the LA area, or even the SF Bay Area.
Indeed !! VOODOO science is becoming the dominant so called "SCIENTIFIC" operating protocols !! I am beginning to think we get more truth (and entertainment) from Cable TV's s' World Wrestling franchises !!!
Here are a couple of easy ones.
"difficulty of removing" (not putting ???????) lead in R/P LEADED gasoline
MANDATING MTBE based on "overwhelming scientific study and evidence" with massive conversion costs
Added REMOVAL costs (which we ALL STILL pay and will for an unknown forward period ) for the dismal ($$'s ) failure of MTBE and at almost EVERY metric.
massive remediation costs
ethanol and its plethora of deleterious effects.
What is in the wings: the DE sulfurization of diesel (from 500 ppm/140 ppm CA) to 15 ppm so called ULSD (with ULSD nominally delivered @ 5 to 10 ppm sulfur) has been SO successful that the enviro cons are looking forward to cutting RUG/PUG down from 30 ppm to 90 ppm sulfur to the SAME as diesel, aka 15 ppm sulfur. This will of course drive the price per gal of RUG/PUG UPWARDS of 7 to 15 cents per gal !!! The B/E points for further removal is probably generational (biblical ten)
:@ So EVEN if they're successful in that implementation, ULSD will STILL be cleaner than RUG/PUG, however insignificantly statistically INSIGNICANT.
This will probably also cause damage to current RUG/PUG cars, so reengineering (read many more BUX $$$) will have to be done and remanufactured going forward.