Tires, tires, tires

sequoiasoon · March 2004

I called Nokian (My co-worker has same size on her X-5) and needs new tires. The WR will not be available until late June. Service rep said that your local distributer would be able to get them first. Just more info in case your interested.

markz2k · March 2004

Well, after only 26K miles, the front MXV4Energy's are worn out. So, I'm looking for recommendations. (Size:205/65R15)

I probably won't buy Michelin again, they don't seem to be worth their high price. I want something that has decent treadlife, and low noise. As long as the handling isn't any worse than the MXV4's, I'm not that worried about it. I'm in So. Cal, so snow's not an issue. I'd like to keep the cost to no more than around $70/tire. (Or less, of course)

The Falken ZIEX512 seems to be popular in the Acura TL threads. (As well as in Consumer Reports)

The local Discount Tire store recommended some Pirelli P3000's for $79/each, and also some Yokohama's YK420's for $85. They can also get the Falken's for $73. (They suggested the Pirelli's and Yoko's, I asked about the Falken's.)

I have access to both Sam's Club and Costco, plus the usual tire stores.

Any suggestions are welcome.

bankeizen · March 2004

Thanks for feedback. Will check out Nokian.

pluto5 · March 2004

Check out Kumho, high quality low price.

tntitan · March 2004

A lot of people complain about these tires on this forum but I love mine. I have a 2003 Accord LX coupe with 17" wheels and I have now had these tires for almost 9 thousand miles. Although they are rated for 50K I only expect to get around 25K before replacing them anyway. I bought them for their overall traction (especially wet weather) and couldn't be happier. I hated the Michelin Energy OEM tires on my previous Accord. For what I pay for these tires compared to Michelin prices I don't need more than 25K and the superior traction I get to justify my purchase. As for the noise factor....I couldn't say because I can't hear any road noise because of my custom sound system.

What is the perfect tire for one person is not necessarily the right tire for the next guy.

driftracer · March 2004

liking that Accord and your cool wheels?

Please drop an e-mail when you can -

markz2k · March 2004

Thanks for the suggestion. I checked out the reviews on Tirerack, they were not impressive. The Mazda 626 I bought in '95 came with Dunlop's standard. They were pretty sticky (better than the MXV4's on the Accord) but they wore out way too soon.

I'll check into the Kumho's too, if I can find them locally.

knapp3 · March 2004

I'm hearing so much about jobs leaving America that I've decided to do my best personally to only buy American made products. I realize that may not always be possible, but I will try.

So I wrote both Michelin and Goodrich to ask each if a particular tire model I'm interested in came out of an American plant. Michelin was good enough to respond and said some of that tire line are made in the US and some are not. That was as specific as they got. Unfortunately Goodrich did not even reply.

So, do you guys know of any other way to find out what tires a person would be interested in buying actually come from US factories and which are imported?

imidazol97 · March 2004

Isn't there a code number on the tire for the plant in which each was made. I believe someone, somewhere had posted a link to a table listing those codes...

http://www.harriger.com/tires.htm
Search on Google for "tire plant code"
The first two numbers and/or letters after DOT near the rim are the plant code. See abovfe link...

stever · March 2004

This link is a list of tire brands made in the US by union members.

Steve, Host

edh · March 2004

are they more mellow?

wtd44 · March 2004

In 1978 I bought a set of four Canadian made Uniroyals. I was passing through Smithers, B.C. on my way to Idaho. Those were very laid back and cool running tires! >:o]

mcdawgg · March 2004

The load rating on my original tires is 100, can I go down to 99? I am asking because Tire Rack says that 99's are okay to use on my car, but Michelin says they are not. I do not haul around tons of stuff.

Thanks!

capriracer · March 2004

There's a couple of interesting things here:

First - It's Load Index. Load Rating is a similar but different concept as it applies to Light Truck tires.

Technically, you might be able to use a tire with a lower load index, but you would need to increase the inflation pressure. And the upper limit on inflation pressure is 35 psi for P metric tires (tires with a P in front of the size) and 36 psi for tires without the P. (except for Extra Load, Reinforced or LT metric tires, which we don't need to get into.) So it depends on what the proper inflation pressure is called for by the vehicle manufacturer.

The difference in answers between TireRack and Michelin is that as a manufacturer, Michelin CAN NOT advise anyone to use tires smaller than what the vehicle manufacturer specifies - the legal liability is HUGE!!

However, a dealer does not have anywhere near the legal exposure and can be a little more cavalier about this.

Hope this helps.

jakemail · March 2004

I just recently bought a used 1998 BMW 540i. The car was pulling slightly to the right so I went and got a front end alignment. Well now the car still pulls slightly to the right. I am wondering if one of the tires may be defective. What is the best way to diagnose this issue? Should I rotate the tires and see if it pulls to the left? Should I cross rotate the tires? What would that accomplish? Thanks for any help.

wtd44 · March 2004

Sometimes, a "bad" tire will cause pull. Also, check your tire pressure. Do a normal rotation, moving the fronts to the back and see if the pull disappears. If you discover that you have a tire causing the problem, you might consider running that tire on the rear and not rotating anymore. It will shorten the life of the set of tires, of course, but I have found that to be more tolerable than a meaningful pull up front.

badgerfan · March 2004

Make sure you try your car on both the far left and far right lanes of multiple lane freeways to make sure you aren't just noticing the lane camber. The far right lanes will almost always be lower on the right side to drain water, so your car may track right a little. On the far left lane, it may track left a little as this lane will be lower on the left side.

Tires can definitely affect tracking however, as I have experienced this myself. They can take a "set" even though they may appear to be wearing evenly.

edh · March 2004

find a GOOD front end person
after tires are eliminated he should be able to tweak it any way you want

alibajalajaula · March 2004

I purchased a $595 5 year coverage for my new 330i ZHP BMW, with 18" wheels and 225/40 plus 255/35 ZR18 Michelin Pilot Sport tires. I am having second thoughts since the coverage (repair/replacement)is strictly only for "road hazards" (nails, glass, potholes), but will not cover damage like curb impact, collision, off road use or if items are covered under driver's primary insurance(?). In addition, wheel and tire inspection is a requirement to validate the replacement claims. Sounds like a lot of fine print. PLus 5 years, man, dunno if the company will still be around. I can still get a full refund within 30 days.

Question to any of you tire gurus: has anyone had experience with a Road Hazard Tire and Wheel Protection plan, specifically this one from NSD (Nation Safe Drivers)? What do you think about the terms? Will appreciate any input.

kyfdx · March 2004

but all of your reservations are exactly what I was thinking. It's like trying to collect on the mileage guarantees on tires... virtually impossible. I had a bubble on a Michelin tire once, and if I hadn't had a friend who was a big fleet customer for Michelin, I would have had to eat it.

"We have determined that the problem with the tire is impact related."

"Why do you say that?"

"We can find no other explanation for the bubble".

"So, how do you know when the tire is just defective?"

SILENCE

I'd save my money and use it to replace those back tires in about 15K. It will take most of your $600 just for that.

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx · March 2004

How many miles on those tires? I'm putting on the same tires, albeit in 17" this Friday. What do you think of them?

regards,
kyfdx

alibajalajaula · March 2004

Thanks kyfdx for your feedback. I'm getting my money back.
As for the Michelins Pilot Sports,I have only 600 miles on my tires, but they feel great. Have them set at the lower end of the valid pressure range (32 front,38 rear) for maximum durability (still could carry the 4 adults), and the grip is awesome, especially on ramps and turnpikes.
I did my homework when shopping my car. These come with a treadwear number of 220, much higher than the Bridgestone Potenzas RE040 with 140, so the Michelins should last (220/140-1) x 100 = 57% more miles than the RE040. I think, you can't go wrong with the Pilot Sports.

robr2 · March 2004

Keep in mind that treadwear ratings cannot be compared across manufacturers - the 220 Michelin can only be compared against other Michelins and the Bridgestone against other Bridgestones only.

kyfdx · March 2004

The treadwear rating isn't an absolute? Like the traction and temperature ratings? Wow..

driftracer · March 2004

comparible. Now, you can make generalizations that tires with 140-220 treadwear ratings will be stickier than ones with 400-500 ratings, but comparing tire to tire is impossible, if you're trying to split hairs.

Also, I've NEVER seen a road hazard plan that covered damage (like an accident, curb damage, etc), and I've sold hundreds of road hazard policies.

If you get a nail, you're covered, if you curb and kill a tire, it's on you - that's usually the way they work.

kyfdx · March 2004

I realize that nothing is absolute.. But, I was under the impression that 220 meant more tread life than 140, all things being equal... no matter the manufacturer. Its hard to believe a federal requirement, whether treadlife, temperature rating, or traction rating, isn't the same across all manufacturers.

regards,
kyfdx

robr2 · March 2004

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/general/utqg.jsp

Read the first paragraph.

Perhaps I went a bit overboard. It is a bit ambiguous as to who sets the control tire rated at 100. I was always under the impression that the control tire (100) was always set by the manufacturer but it could be infered that DOT has a contol spec. Nonetheless, it says that it is best to compare within the same mfr.

kyfdx · March 2004

No..you are exactly correct. I just asked Gary at Tirerack. You have it exactly correct. They aren't comparable across manufacturers. He says that unfortunately they are more of a marketing gimmick than anything else.

On another note... Can you believe he gave me an answer in eleven minutes?.. On another forum that I can't tell you the name of here. Unreal.

regards,
kyfdx (who still learns something new every day)

robr2 · March 2004

Well now you have one more useless nugget for cocktail party conversations.

"Wow kyfdx knows can quote Chaucer and help me with tires for the SL all in one breath - such a renaissance man!!"

kyfdx · March 2004

"cocktail" and "renaissance" in the same post. I doubt I can hold a candle to that!!

stever · March 2004

Sorry, it's been too long since that info has been posted:

steve_ Jul 25, 2003 3:28pm

Still, it's not as bad as trying to cross-shop mattresses.

Steve, Host

imidazol97 · March 2004

I have had a couple of problems with Michelins handled through the years (out of maybe 40 tires over 35 years).
I think the problem is the dealer more than the tire company. Defects is defects.

I stood at a local tire dealer while a 'lady' tried to get her BMW's tire fixed which had a cut sidewall or burst sidewall. They told her it was OVERinflation... and wouldn't help her. I would have been off to the next store that sold that brand. She bought the overinflation cause.

I thought mileage numbers had a relative meaning across tire lines. Aren't they related to a standard tire's treadlife???

kyfdx · March 2004

I didn't mean to denigrate Michelin. That just happened to be the brand that time. I think its pretty much the same across all lines, and with all tire dealers. You pretty much have to prove it is a defective tire, which is virtually impossible. Or scream loudly.

regards,
kyfdx

capriracer · March 2004

Let me try to clear this up:

First, there IS a control tire. It is called an SRTT - Standard Reference Traction Tire - yes, it is the reference tire for traction testing. The actual tire has changed over the years. The first tire was a bias ply tire that actually was rated at 100. I think it's on its 3rd evolution and it's a radial produced by Uniroyal.

There is a standard test. It's a 10,000 mile, on vehicle test, over a proscribed route, where the control tires and the subject tires are swapped at regular intervals between 2 vehicles. This type of testing is fairly expensive. The last time I looked it was $1.00 per tire mile - about $80,000.

One of the problems with the test is that the subject tire has to fit on the same vehicle as the SRTT - so you might be testing a super low profile and against a 70 series (which is what I think the SRTT is) Tough to find a vehicle that will handle both. So the Feds allow for comparisons (and here's where the shell game gets started), and all the tire manufacturer has to do is JUSTIFY the number they publish.

Another factor is they way each manufacturer sees the rating. Some think it is to their advantage to have as large a number as possible. Others see this as an implied warranty.

SOOOO!!!

I think saying that you can't compare the treadwear numbers between manufacturers is a little strong, but the numbers have to be taken with a grain of salt.

Hope this helps.

robr2 · March 2004

capriracer - I hope you noticed that I retracted my harsh words wrt to comparing across manufacturers.

This site had something of interest on the testing to come up with the number. I tossing it out there since I can't find anything at nhtsa to confirm either.

http://www.autotirecarcare.com/guide/utqg.html

sandman46 · March 2004

I have these on my '03 Sentra and they are really horrible tires. The edges have worn down on the fronts, rotated them at 5k miles, and the grip is terrible, and even worse in the rain.
Can't wait to get rid of these "death shoes" and put some stickier sneakers on the car that will grip the road better. Am thinking about the Yokahoma Avid Touring tires. Any comments?

The Sandman :-)

capriracer · March 2004

Robr2,

Actually I had noticed, but I wanted to supply some additional info so folks would get a better understanding, hopefully leading to more informed decisions.

I liked your link. Obviously my memory is faulty with regard to the test length.

But the link is a bit out of date as the traction rating now includes a "AA" rating. And the link implies that every tire that has a treawear grade was tested and this is just not true.

As far as NHTSA is concerned: My dealings with them always leaves me frustrated and their web site is no exception.

Hope this helps.

kyfdx · March 2004

More than a few Honda CRV owners swear by the Yoko Avid T4.. Stock size for a CRV is 205/70-15.

The other tire that I have seen most oftened mentioned is the Bridgestone Turanza LS-T.

Both of these tires are all-season, and an upgrade over OEM for any small to midsize car.

regards,
kyfdx

sandman46 · March 2004

Have these on my work van, a Dodge minivan, and they seem to be great tires. Am seriously thinking of these as replacement tires before a road trip up to New England around Labor Day.
Thanks for your quick response K.

The Sandman :-)

wtd44 · March 2004

I have found a useful, but far from scientific application for the treadwear index number on a tire. You take the three digits of the number and add two zeros to them, and you have a usable number of miles for tread longevity. Example: A tread wear number of 440 implies 44,000 miles of tread wear just might be available. I have anecdotally found this guesstimate to be reasonably accurate, and it is certainly no more unreliable than the treadwear index in raw form.

driftracer · March 2004

on my Mustang GT, when I was 23, I had a 320 treadwear set go only 13,000 miles. Now, I'm 40, and I've gotten 23,000 miles out of a 160 treadwear set.

Must be maturity.....

edh · March 2004

your 3.5 lawnmower engine has somehow grown to 6 HP

driftracer · March 2004

I just bought a new mower, I have a small yard, just looking for a cheap, but good, mover - I got a 6.5 hp push mower! What happened to the 2-3 hp versions? Is grass harder to mow? Is it genetically enhanced nowadays to be tougher to cut?

On the good side, it's a Craftsman, and my son works at Sears Hardware, got it on clearance, minus his discount.

Now, we need to look at more tools!

wtd44 · March 2004

So what's the treadwear index on that new Craftsman mower?

In 1998 I bought a new Pathfinder that had Bridgestones of a fast wear nature. The index was 180. I thought they'd go at least 18,000 miles but I was double disappointed when I had to replace them at 14,500. The only B'stones I ever own are OEM, and never after market procured.

ruking1 · March 2004

I just recently switched to a 280 utoq tire after running a 220 utoq tire for 56,000 miles with 4/32 left on the carcass starting with 8/32.

wtd44 · April 2004

What induced you to switch?

ruking1 · April 2004

Better balance between dry and wet performance. Longer life? Lower cost per mile. Cheaper upfront?

Actually the Goodyear Eagle F1 Super Car's have almost ferocious dry handling and grip. The steering is pretty precise for such large tires. I was looking for the wet handling improvement and slightly longer life, I knew I would have to give up a tad of dry grip. The much lower price also was a factor. The Toyo Proxes T1S's started with 10/32 or with 2/32 in more than the GY's. If the history of 14,000 miles per 1/32 holds true; then I project the Toyos will have 28,000 more miles .

Also I projected and actually got a slightly less bone rattling ride, which for a long distance cruiser over a variety of roads and road surfaces is better.

corvette · April 2004

That's a good guesstimate for average driving conditions and habits. If you're hard on your car, expect less. If you're like my dad, you will get 100,000+ miles out of MXV4 Plus tires which have a treadwear rating of 400. (I got only 50-60,000 out of the same tires.) He drives almost all interstate and no fast cornering. Lucky for him, I don't drive his car often enough to skew the treadwear!

jamesbass1 · April 2004

Last week I purchased a new set of Michelin XC Tires from Sears. This replaced an older set of Michelin XC tires that had 100,00 mi. on them w/tread left to spare. These tires are on my 1995 Toyota 4-Runner SR5 2WD.

Immediately after the tires were put on, my wife and left for a long trip from Central Florida. After an hour down the highway, my wife who was driving mentioned a vibration at high speeds over 55mph. I checked and sure enough it was true. With no choice we had to continue on our trip as it's a combo of business & vacation.

When we arrived in Mobile, AL on our first leg of the trip, I went to the Sears Store there and after explaining the situation they re-balanced the tires and put in correct tire pressures. Back on the road we go. The re-balancing, etc. certainly reduced the vibration at high speeds, but did not cure it completely. The vibration/shimmy is still there.

Today I called the original Sears Store and talked to the Salesman that sold us the Michelins. I made a complaint and told him about the re-balancing. I also mentioned that the tires might be defective. He suggested I have them re-balanced AGAIN, and if that did not work then Sears might replace ONE tire. ARGGGGG!

I would greatly appreciate any and all advice from the members of this Forum. Thank you.

ruking1 · April 2004

It does sound like a defective tire! If you go by the odds in theory the chances are unlikely all four of them are defective.

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