Tires, tires, tires

kyfdx · April 2004

If you have OEM tires now, then I think ContiExtremeContacts in your stock size might be worth a shot.... relatively inexpensive also.. might be noisy when they get some wear, though.

regards,
kyfdx

ldbricker · April 2004

on tirerack.com it seems the best tires in my stock size are BF Goodrich Traction T/A, Pirelli P Zero Nero M&S, and Bridgestone RE750, not necessarily in that order. The BFG really looks to be best for the money and also has a 60,000 mile treadlife warranty while the others have none. They also have the BFG in 215/50-16 which is only 10mm wider than stock. That might give a visual and slight performance advantage and still fit fine. It's hard to imagine you can't add 5mm per side without causing rubbing problems.

I'm also looking at some wheels they have. Kazera KZ-V in 16x7 for only $119 and only 16.5 pounds per wheel. I don't know what the weight of a stock wheel is but would expect they're more than that. Any suggestions on where to get the weight of a stock RalliArt wheel?

paisan · April 2004

Generally will be of a harder compound and provide less grip than softer, less-milage tires.

-mike

kyfdx · April 2004

You are right, probably wouldn't rub, but the tire isn't just wider, it is taller also... The aspect ratio (height) is a percentage of the width. So, the tire is taller as well as wider. When you start adding those things up, it gets closer to the rub points quicker than you think.

I'm not sure you could actually see the difference in the width.. I'd be more worried about steering response in a front-driver. You could actually make your car handle worse.

regards,
kyfdx

ldbricker · April 2004

True, however according to the tirerack.com comparison page the ratings in order of RE750, P Zero, and BFG for dry traction are 8.9, 9, and 8.9, wet traction 8.6, 8.7, 8.8, ride comfort 8.4, 8.7, 8, noise comfort 8.1, 8.8, 7.5 and wear 8.2, 8.7 and 9.1. The price for 4 with road hazard is $479.36, $492.80, and $421.12. It really requires a 3 sided coin among them since none run away from the other 2. I think the Pirelli gets the nod though.

paisan · April 2004

Be very careful of the Tirerack "ratings" often they are rated by consumers who are buying new tires, and are comparing them to tires they just ditched after 50K miles so even "poor" tires come up as rated well since they are new v. old. Take all those ratings on there with a big grain of salt IMHO. I've seen the Kumho 712 rated highly there, and IMHO after seeing at least 20 sets with bubbles, they are not good tires. Also the dry ratings are also usually after a short time that people rate them, very few people rate them on the TR after they have 50K miles on them, when they are all squirrely.

-mike

ldbricker · April 2004

I'm looking at the Cooper Zeon 2XS also. I like the looks of the tire and am favorably disposed toward the company based on prior reputation. I don't know anything recent though. I'm also adding the Yokohama AVS ES100 to the suspect list. The primary suspects are the P Zero M&S, BFG Traction T/A, and ES100, with secondary suspects of the RE750, Kuhmo 712 and Dunlop SP Sport FM901. Financially the ES100, 712 and FM901 are a big step ahead with the other 3 in a similar second place. The Cooper would go in one group or the other but since I can't find anything like the tirerack.com comparison data on that tire I don't know where to put it.

paisan · April 2004

Would be ES100 or FM901s

-mike

kennynmd · April 2004

I got the compant to get me the correct tires (Kumho Ecsta STX) for my truck in a 295/45/20. My question to you is what psi would you recommend on that truck. The OEM tires are 265/65/17 and the recommended psi were 32 in front and 35 in rear. What would be equivalent with the Kumho STX's. Thanks again!

corvette · April 2004

If the load ratings the new tires are equal to or greater than the factory required load ratings, I would run 32 front and 35 rear. If they are less than the factory required load ratings, I would consider running more pressure (within the max limit specified for the tire) to help combat overheating.

corvette · April 2004

Michelin MXV4+ and others. They're decent, but the fuel economy is not worth the performance penalty (and I don't drive that fast). I lost 1-2 MPG on my VR6 Jetta by going from 195/65/15 MXV4's to 225/50/16 Pilot XGT H4's. Rain traction was about the same, snow traction was extremely dangerous with the Pilots, but man, the dry grip was tenacious. First time ever in that car that I could floor it from a dead stop and not squeal the tires. Dry braking performance was similarly awesome.

tirerack · April 2004

Mike is only partially correct. The "customer survey" is always done by customer and is an extremely bias response. but the survey's are sent out at 12 month and again at 24 months to try and get a long term review from the customer. also keep in mind that most people shop out of price rather than was suits the vehicles requirements to even their needs. as a prime example when i bought my Porsche 944 the guy before me had placed "T" rated tire on the car and it handled terribly. however if you read the reviews on that tire they stated it had great traction and they were quiet. anyone who is familiar with the Dunlop Sport 20 A/S know it is neither of these things.

When you are looking for information on a tire i would suggest using the "test results" section rather than the "customer survey". the "test results" section is data compiled by the tire rack by an unbias comparison. our testing consist of 4 identical vehicles being driven over the exact same surfaces and conditions, including real world and track conditions, by each driver. this gives a much more accurate comparison and also allows us to give you first hand knowledge of a tire rather than just quoting verbatim from a manufacturer spec sheet.

driftracer · April 2004

on another site, looked at customer reviews, and noted that everyone said they were either "outstanding" or "horrible" - no middle of the road responses. Shows a level of inexperience with no technical information - just generalizations.

No disrespect to the average consumer, but I'll take my tire reviews and information from someone who has bought and equipped more than 3 sets of ties in their lifetime...

tirerack · April 2004

The size is correct for the vehicle and has a similar load capacity. i would recommend using the Toyota recomeded air pressure. Also remember that you have seriously shortened your side wall and the higher the air pressure the stiffer you will make the tire. You want the tire to have some flex otherwise you will end up bending your wheels fairly easilywhen going over road obstacles.

use 32psi in the front and 35psi in the rear.

connor@tirerack.com
Tire & Wheel Specialist
The Tire Rack
877-522-8473 ext 269

goldston · April 2004

Hello all,

I am researching replacement tires for our Highlander and I believe I come up with a good tire, but would like to know if anyone else has this tire on their vehicle and their thoughts.

The tire I am considering is: Michelin LTX® M/S

Thank you for any advise and/or comments.

Philip

ldbricker · April 2004

when you change from the size in the tirerack test results to the size for your car? When you compare a,b,c,d in 225/40-18 but the end user is going with 205/50-16 how different are the results going to be? I imagine it's not going to be the same order of finish or degree of separation of the finishers. Just wondering how large a fudge factor is required when deciding among various tires.

ldbricker · April 2004

seem to vary quite a bit depending on when the testing was done. I'm looking at the AVS ES100 and in one test it did poorly in the wet while in another comparison it did quite well in the wet. Is it just as compared to the others in the test or is there a definitive standard they are all competing against?

prizmoe · April 2004

I am purchasing 4 more Pirelli tires for my 1999 Prizm this weekend;
my old ones have over 80,000 miles on them & still have tread. I do
a lot of highway driving, so I don't get the stop & go wear.
They will cost me $70/tire including balance & mounting; it went up
in price $5 since I last purchased them.

tirerack · April 2004

the test's are performed using 4 different tires of similar classifications (i.e. tread design, speed rating, performance classification) so that you are seeing how the tire rates and perform against other tires in the same class. but, we test each tire over several sessions against several different tires. when you see tires with sometimes varied results it is because of the tires you are comaring them to. as an example:

ES100 vs S03 -- the S03 has better wet traction so the comparative rating on the ES100 will show slightly lower.

ES100 vs ContiSport Contact -- the ES100 has better wet traction so the comparative rating will show slightly higher.

If the rating were the same when compared to every tire than it wouldn't be a true comparison, it would be a skewed number rating which wouldn't tell you much.

connor@tirerack.com
Tire & Wheel Specialist
The Tire Rack
877-522-8473 ext 269

ldbricker · April 2004

a change of size affect things? Most of the tests were on 17" or larger tires. I'm looking at 16's. How should one adjust or is it even possible to adjust for size variations?

kennynmd · April 2004

from everyone on this and other boards who have helped me.

paisan · April 2004

I'd personally find a site that has folks who drive your car, and get with them as to which tires are best. I know here the subaru folks are always debating tires. Also there may be something on here for your car that the folks can help you with.

-mike

ldbricker · April 2004

as well as another that's strictly my make car. There are plenty of opinions floating around however as others pointed out those are not as good as real world test results. I want to figure out just how much weight to give the test results though. I've checked out the test results on various tires I considered and found 1 or 2 that didn't do as well so I've narrowed my field somewhat.

The last question is how much it affects things when the size tested is 235/45-18 and I need 205/50-16. I know it's the same tire, at least by brand, model, speed rating etc. but I don't know if size affects results. If tires A,B,C&D are tested and ranked in the 18 size will the results be the same in the 16 size or will the results change?

km344 · April 2004

I have a 1992 Mercury Grand Marquis and i want to get 17 inch rims for it. The current tires are 225/70R15. I have no idea what size tire to get. Can you please help me out. Thanks in advance

ldbricker · April 2004

235/55-17 to upgrade the Mercury.

driftracer · April 2004

which is, ironically, the same size the Impala SS takes -

For your Mercury, you can get Ford Cobra 5-spokes in a 17x9 with the proper offset - a 255 tire fits perfect and looks great.

The Tire Rack carries them....

lobsenza · April 2004

Connor,
I currently have 235/50-17 V rated Bridgestone Turanzas on the car. The factory says that 245/45-17 is an acceptable size for the car (this will throw the speedo off slightly). I also know people who have put 255/45-17 tires on the stock 7.5" wide rims. Is this too wide a tire for a 7.5" rim? What handling differences will I get by going to a wider tire? How about tire life? Do you have any particuliar tire recommendations? I live in TX, so sonow is not a factor.

Thanks

slazenger · April 2004

Hello

I am new to this forum. I have a few questions regarding Foresters tires. Hopefully, you folks can help me out...

I have 39K+ miles on my forester. I visited my dealer today for an oil change and tire rotation. The dealer did change oil but did not rotate tires. The service manager said the tires are "out of shape" and rotation could introduce vibrations. He suggested that I replace tires ASAP. I have rotated tires promptly every 5K miles and they all have about 3mm tread left (above the replacement mark). A couple of questions:

* Should I replace the tires or get them rotated some place else?

* Any recommendations for OEM Dueler/HT replacement? I live in Michigan - so, I prefer something that can handle snow and Michigan potholes (creators). My dealer is suggesting Michelin brand.

Thanks

imidazol97 · April 2004

What are replacement tires for Michelin X-Ones.
The tires have given good life, but I may replace two before next winter for snow. I see a Harmony and Hydroedge at the top of the line now...

tirerack · April 2004

Size is very important in relation to how it performs. A taller side wall will have more flotation that a shorter sidewall. by having more flotation you give the tire more time to respond in wet or snowy weather. A shorter side wall will be stiffer and respond much faster to acceleration and braking which is great for dry performance but bad for wet or snowy circumstances. this is why the size affects how a tire performs in different circumstances.

The shorter the side wall the better the dry acceleration and braking

The taller the side wall the better traction for inclimate weather

connor@tirerack.com
Tire & Wheel Specialist
The Tire Rack
877-522-8473 ext 269

ldbricker · April 2004

That is pretty much what I expected regarding different overall sizes. The other part of the question was, in a test of tires A,B,C & D in size 245/35-18 you get scores of A=6.89, B=7.11, C=7.02 and D=6.97 overall. For a person who uses a different size tire, say 225/45-16, how closely would the results match if the same 4 tires were compared in this new size? How much weight should be given to the tirerack test results when choosing between different tires when you have to use a different size than the size tested? Thank you very much for your time and assistance.

tirerack · April 2004

the correct size for you Grand Marquis in 17" would be 225/55/17. this would be the same overall diameter as the OE tire and would keep your speedometer and odometer accurate.

frag235 · April 2004

Welcome to the Board. What would be a good replacement tire for a current model Accord sedan 4-cylinder other then Michelin? H/V rated Bridgestone Turenza's get good reviews on your site and you mentioned a Continental tire earlier? The size is 205/60-16. I'm looking for good dry/wet handling and a quiet ride.

Thanks!

tirerack · April 2004

The only size i could recommend as per Ford specifications would be the stock 235/50/17. You may be able to fit a larger tire under the vehicle but due to the fact it will throw off the speed ometer i could not recommend any other sizes.
Going to a wider tire will increase your dry handling to a certain point but if you go to wide it will just create more drag and work against you. also, a wider tire may have better dry traction but the added width of the tire will work against you in heavy wet conditions.

connor@tirerack.com
Tire & Wheel Specialist
The Tire Rack
877-522-8473 ext 269

tirerack · April 2004

The dealer was most likely referring to the depth of the tread. The DOT considers a tire no good at 4/32" and the tread wear bars are set at 2/32". it sounds like your tires are ready to be replaced. The bridgestone Dueler HT's are very good tires. as a general recommendation i would offer the Bridgestone tire that you currently have first but as a second recomendation i would recommend the 205/70/15 Pirelli Scorpion STR. Both have similar construction and both are very good tires. the pirelli's are simply a few dollars cheaper.

connor@tirerack.com
Tire & Wheel Specialist
The Tire Rack
877-522-8473 ext 269

lobsenza · April 2004

Why would the wider tire perform worse in wet conditions? Hydroplaning?

The 255/45-17 is the same height as the 235/50-17.

I was hoping that the wider tire would prevent a slight rear slide when accelerating through a slightly wet curve and improve dry handling. I knew snow performance would degrade with a wider tire, but I am surprised wet performance would. Would a wider tire wear longer by distributing the load over a wider area?

t2dean · May 2004

Buick 2000 LeSabre Custom - 225-60-R16 Recommended speed rating is S on door panel
Which tire would be best in Minnesota for potholes and snow? Someone told me to get a speed rating of "T", but why? It is not the recommended - Is there much difference in price?

fastpaul · May 2004

I bought a set of Kumho 712s as replacements for the original Dunlops on my 2001 Audi A6 2.7T and have almost 10000 miles on them. For the past 2000 miles, a low-medium speed "wuh-wuh-wuh" sound has become evident.It's not felt through the steering wheel. Discount Tire has rebalanced and rotated them, and the alignment is right on, but the noise continues. Does anyone have ideas..bad tires??

shipo · May 2004

What size tires are you running? It seems that the wider/lower aspect ration the more susceptible they are to noise.

In the BMW world going 10K miles before tires start getting noisy is actually fairly decent. :-/ I've only got about 10K miles on my OEM Michelin Pilot Primacys in the 235/45 R17 size, and they are starting to get the "wuh-wuh-wuhs" as well. Based upon what I have divined from the numerous BMW groups that I have followed, once it starts, it will continue to get worse until the tires are replaced. Apparently it's not so much the tires as it is the suspension setup. BMW (and maybe Audi?) configures their suspensions for good handling (the SP more so than the standard setup), which is apparently somewhat at odds with tire life.

If you hear different, let me know.

Best Regards,
Shipo

paisan · May 2004

ugh, probably just wore off the nice top-rubber, now down to the harder lower rubber. it could also be a mechanical issue with your car, but I'd just change out the 712s

-mike

yurakm · May 2004

Till somebody with Minnesota experience will suggest something better:

I immigrated from Russia. I know a family from Russia who settled in Minnesota. They tell that the local climate is similar to Russian. Not exactly Moscow climate - a bit colder than Moscow in winter, substantially hotter in summer - but many places in Russia have such a climate. Any case, the Minnesota snow is like the Russian one: mostly dry when fresh, does not melt till spring, and forms packed snow.

One of my friends, who lives in the old country, swear by Nokian tires. Nokian is a Finnish company, who know very well to make tires for Finnish (same as Russian) climate. The Nokian all-season and winter tires have a reputation of the best, respectively, all-season and winter tires for Russian winter.

Probably the same with Minnesota?

And, by the way, the Russian roads generally are either in bad or very bad conditions. I believe, much worse than in Minnesota.

capriracer · May 2004

I'm going to guess that what you have is irregular wear on the rear tires, and that you didn't rotate them. This situation can be aggravated by the rear alignment or low inflation pressures.

As a test, try a rotation and see if you now get a vibration in the steering wheel.

Hope this helps.

g8tr · May 2004

Hello,
I'm new to this forum and have spent quite a while looking over old posts but have not really found the info. I am looking for. I have a '00 Ford F150 w/Goodyear Wrangler AP P255/70/R16 tires OEM w/60k on them. I'm looking to replace them with one of the following: Michelin LTX/MS, Yoko. Geolander H/T G051, or Kelly Safari in a p265/70/R16.

I live in Florida, so a tire that handles the rain is a must. The truck is 2wd and I am on the road 90% of the time. I do pull a 17' boat but I don't think that factors into this decision too much.

I like the Michelins but the cost is shocking. However, I do plan on keeping the truck for quite some time so in the long run, these may be better. The other tires I realize are "value" tires but how do you all feel they compare?

tirerack · May 2004

this is where we have have our down fall with tire testing. it is impossible for the Tire Rack to test every tire in every size. We have available to us the experience on the tires to understand how the difference in size can alter the performance of the tire. The amount of difference in performance can vary depending on how many levels of size difference there are between the tire you started with and the tire you are looking at. As i said in the previous email you could have a tire in a 225/45/17 with great wet traction but if you decide to use the same tire in a 275/40/17 you will get slightly lesser wet traction when going interstate speeds simply due to the wider contact patch. the wider a tire is the more water it has to remove to keep contact with the pavement.

as an example with all things being equal. If you are looking at two tires in a 225/45/17 and you want to compare the same two tires in a larger size, the comparative ratings would stll be the same.

And always remember "when in doubt, call someone who know's. Don't assume anything."

connor@tirerack.com
Tire & Wheel Specialist
The Tire Rack
877-522-8473 ext 269

ldbricker · May 2004

as an example with all things being equal. If you are looking at two tires in a 225/45/17 and you want to compare the same two tires in a larger size, the comparative ratings would stll be the same.

That's the part I wanted to confirm. I knew the same tire in 2 different sizes wouldn't perform identically but wasn't sure if the comparison between tires stayed constant as sizes changed or if tires could change their ranking and order of finish when sizes changed. Thank you.

tirerack · May 2004

T and S speed rating are very similar and are considered to be interchangeable. a T speed rating will be just a succeptable to pot hole damage as an S speed rating. As a general recommendation i would suggest the Bridgestone Turanza LS-T. they are an excellent tire with a very quiet and comfortable ride quality. Just to let you know how much faith i have in this tire i put these on my mothers mini van. she drives he mini van pretty hard and seams to try and hit everything she can, but in the year or so that she has had them i haven't had to replace one yet.

The only way to eliminate pot hole damage to a tire is to avoid hitting them.

connor@tirerack.com
Tire & Wheel Specialist
The Tire Rack
877-522-8473 ext 269

sandman46 · May 2004

I have to agree with Connor on his assesment about these tires. Have had them on my car about 3 weeks now and the ride is very smooth and quiet, car drives likes it's on rails. Drove home through some constant heavy rain earlier this evening and they held on to the road like no other tire I've ever driven on.
Am extremely pleased with these tires so far!!

The Sandman :-)

tntitan · May 2004

sandman the true test will come in about 20K miles.....hope you are still on rails and still holding to the road then.

stever · May 2004

There was so much interest we gave Conner his own discussion so his responses wouldn't get buried in the other threads:

Sylvia "Ask Connor at The Tire Rack" May 4, 2004 11:50am

Enjoy!

Steve, Host

tirerack · May 2004

First off, the Kumho Ecsta Supra 712 tires are just plain noisy and they get noisier as they where. i had them on a 95 Toyota Supra that i had for a while and they did OK (not great) as far as everyday driving but they were noisy from day one. the 712's do have very good wet traction and good traction for semi aggresive driving but they are at best a mid grade performance tire. i would not recommend this tire for anyone unless they are specifically asking for the lowest price.

This tire is most popular with younger people who are looking for low cost performance tires. the difference is they can't hear the tire noise over the coffee can mufflers and pounding bass.

connor@tirerack.com
Tire & Wheel Specialist
The Tire Rack
877-522-8473 ext 269

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