Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

carnaught · June 2015

I think Mercedes makes the best metallic brown color currently. It is on my short list for my next car. I'm sick of silvers and grays, lackluster to me except when just washed and polished.

andres3 · June 2015

I went from Brilliant Blue to Graphite Metallic to Ocean Blue Pearl to now Misano Red Pearl.

sb55 · June 2015

isellhondas said:
For some reason I've been seeing quite a few brown new cars lately and I can't understand why.

Brown cars have always been a dog to sell to the point I think every manufacturer quit making them.

When our store took in a brown trade in we knew it would be tough to sell. " Stay around brown" was what they were called.

Maybe tastes are changing. I still don't like brown cars!

I live 1.3 miles from pavement on a dirt/gravel road. I bought a brown Chevy truck thinking that it wouldn't show the dirt so badly. We own a white BMW, dark gray Miata, medium blue Subaru and the brown truck. It doesn't matter what color is on a vehicle, they always look dirty here. Either muddy or dusty.

imidazol97 · June 2015

For those recommendations as to the "most reliable" cars when recommending what people should buy,
looks like Hyundai and Kia are getting their act together as the new kids on the block.
Of course it's the initial quality reported here. I think the 3 year study is also
important.

In the pullout tables, Honda is missing in both. GM has 4 models mentioned in first one
and 5 mentions in second.

http://www.jdpower.com/sites/default/files/2015 IQS Rank 1.JPG

http://www.jdpower.com/sites/default/files/2015 IQS 3 Top Cars 2.JPG

http://www.jdpower.com/sites/default/files/2015 IQS Top 3 SUV, Mini etc. 3.JPG

[Deleted User] · June 2015

I've learned to ignore the J.D. Studies and don't even bother to fill out their surveys when they come to me. Useless data in my opinion. A transmission failure holds the same weight as someone who doesn't like the color of the instrument panel at night. It's too hard to parse the hard quality data from the fluffy opinions.

stever · June 2015

The (almost) $64 thousand dollar question.

roadburner · June 2015

tyguy said:
I've learned to ignore the J.D. Studies and don't even bother to fill out their surveys when they come to me. Useless data in my opinion. A transmission failure holds the same weight as someone who doesn't like the color of the instrument panel at night. It's too hard to parse the hard quality data from the fluffy opinions.

Exactly, I talked to a suit at BMW NA who said that one reason BMW got dinged in the IQS is because the current BMW buyer("wearers" as opposed to "drivers") complained about the brake dust that accumulates on the wheels.

dino001 · June 2015

JP Power "quality" study is a misnomer. It has nothing to do with what we usually call quality (execution of intended design, ability to perform within parameters of the product), more with overall satisfaction, but even that doesn't have any kind of weighing system between real problems, small nuisances and general criticisms. For example, uncomfortable placement of a window switch on a door panel is a nuisance, may even be called "quality of design" problem, can definitely impact customer satisfaction, but has completely different magnitude than engine quitting after 1000 miles. JD Power thinks they're all the same. Actually, unsatisfactory acceleration , or "ugly" (in eyes of the customer) shape of climate control switch will also be reported as a "quality problem". That's basically garbage in - garbage out study, especially on the aggregate level. I think it is worth reporting that the switches are ugly, but aggregating that to "initial quality problem" at the same rate as say electrical power gremlins in the entertainment system or engine management is just wrong. Also, negative aesthetic or design grades can easily generate large number of problems per 100 cars. There may be something that truly was not designed well, some ergonomic quirk, that irritates pretty much everybody (wrong switch position). It's a real problem, all customers hate it. It shows up as 100 problems per 100 cars. Is it really 20 times worse than 5 cars per 100 losing power due to electrical issue? Dare to say no - JD Power thinks it is.

I also question accuracy of their reports, when it comes to actual models. Long time ago I checked out previous-generation Subaru Legacy GT, then one of the fastest midsize cars in the market (anybody who drove one knows how fast they were), but the study showed "below average" acceleration. I'm sure the data was compiled using base model and did not distinguish between that and the 4-cylinder turbo, or 6-cylinder, it was all taken together, but the website was giving you impression that the data was for the selected trim line and engine type. That's completely unacceptable. Some models have same names, but trims can produce vastly different numbers. The report should either admit insufficient data on those higher trims (stay honest), or provide accurate data, not give you false impressions. That particular case made me lose faith in anything they say. Same would apply to aesthetics (low trim may be hum-drum, but upper trim may look much better) and many more features. Either don't break it down and say so, or if you do then provide accurate info, not some fake.

I have no faith in JD Power study whatsoever. Definitely IQS has nothing to do with dependability.

stever · June 2015

Along those lines:

Does Quality Have Anything To Do With Resale? Edmund's 2015 Best Retained Value Brings Into Question Recalls And Defects Vs Value (autospies.com)

I don't rule JD Power out but prefer their 3 year study. Liked their 5 year on the best but I think they dropped it.

stickguy · June 2015

Consumers reports survey results are a whole lot more relevant the way they are broken out. Still some selection bias most likely, but I have always found them to reflect my experience with a model, and generally in agreement of problems discussed on Internet forums like this.

abacomike · June 2015

tyguy said:
I've learned to ignore the J.D. Studies and don't even bother to fill out their surveys when they come to me. Useless data in my opinion. A transmission failure holds the same weight as someone who doesn't like the color of the instrument panel at night. It's too hard to parse the hard quality data from the fluffy opinions.

Interesting - I just got another JD Power survey in the mail this morning and for once I just ripped it up and threw it away. I have no problems with my car and they keep asking the same questions over and over again - what other cars did you look at? What car did you replace? What did you pay for your car? How did you finance your car? On a scale of 1-10, with 1 being the lowest and 10 being the highest, how would you rate the following features in your car? The performance of your car? etc., etc., etc.

I'm just tired of it all - and if I already sent them two surveys telling them I was completely satisfied with my vehicle, why do they send me another? Do they think I'm lying or something?

There was a time when JD Power was a respected organization and their research above par. But I have no use for them now. I use Edmunds to give me pricing and comparable trade value as well as forums where owners of cars I am thinking of buying provide opinions and input as to their satisfaction or dissatisfaction with their car. I don't even trust Consumer Reports any longer. But what I do undertake is a sampling from all possible sources to determine what I might be interested in and what to look out for.

If I used JD Power solely, I would never buy a Mercedes-Benz - they don't even give it an honorable mention. But most research organizations give the E Class Mercedes-Benz favorable scores. It all depends upon the questions asked, who they ask, and what they do with the results.

nyccarguy · June 2015

@abacomike - "Do they think I'm lying or something?" They don't think you are lying, but they might think you bought a new car

It has been quite a while for you now. LOL!

abacomike · June 2015

When I got to the hospital at 7:20 AM this morning, I spoke with several doctors who all stated they are awaiting a decision from the urologist as to whether or not he has a TURP or if he is to be discharged and sent to a rehab. I got a call from him at 9:00 AM. He told me he did not consider my father for the surgery, but the doctor who was covering for him while he was away, screwed everything up with all his patients and their families. I asked him why - is he supposed to live with a catheter/foley the rest of his life? He can't urinate by himself because his prostate is so large and inflamed and his bladder needs repair. He said he would consider doing the procedure tomorrow morning if he gets complete medical clearance. So now I am waiting to hear if he gets that clearance so I can be prepared for tomorrow, yet I hear the clearance may not be final until tomorrow morning. Good Grief. He told me he would rather die than live the rest of his live with a catheter. That is why my brother and I decided it would be best in order to provide him with a better quality of life.

So after hearing my brother's opinion, I signed consent for the procedure tomorrow. Now the wait and see if he gets medical clearance, which his nurse feels he should get. The nurse (a great nurse - he's a he) said that he needs to be heavily medicated after the procedure because he tries to pull out his foley/catheter and has succeeded several times already. So they need to keep him sedated for a few days so the "flushing" procedure is successful.

So I decided, after they have him his sedative and morphine for pain, to leave at 12:30 and get some rest at home. I'll need as much strength as I can muster for tomorrow assuming the procedure is OK'd.

abacomike · June 2015

nyccarguy said:
@abacomike - "Do they think I'm lying or something?" They don't think you are lying, but they might think you bought a new car It has been quite a while for you now. LOL!

As you know, they only send out a survey to a consumer who they "know" bought a new car and they list the car right on the survey with the model and year.

But, I know the purpose of your post, so here goes, "....ha,ha,ha,ha,ha....."! That's all I can muster up for you Bradd after these last two weeks.

No, they keep sending me slightly different surveys from JD Power almost monthly. My car just turned 6 months old and I still haven't hit 5000 miles yet. I'll tell you one thing though, my front tires are going to need to be replaced in about 5000 miles or so. These high performance summer tires don't last very long due to the heat down here - besides, they are made out of very soft compounds.

So I just decided that enough was enough.

nyccarguy · June 2015

I know you've had a tough (much more) than the last 2 weeks! I was just trying to cheer you up! Stay strong Mike! Thank-you for keeping us updated on your Dad's condition. We are all pulling for you (& him)!

abacomike · June 2015

My Sirius 6 month free trial period ends tomorrow. I have received nothing from Sirius regarding packages, prices, offers, etc. So I just got off the phone with them. They want $156.00 including fees and taxes for a 1 year subscription for 80 music channels only - no sports, weather, comedy, news, etc. For that, they wanted $229 taxes and fees included. For that kind of money, I told them to just let the subscription lapse. So they said OK and hung up. There was no mention of any pricing in the area most of the posters here were able to get. $12.00 a month was the least expensive option for 80 music channels only.

So, I have an iPhone with 300+ songs on it and a disc player as well as iHeart, etc. as well as over 15 channels of HD FM, many of them with 2 or 3 bands on the same frequency. So why should I pay that kind of money when I barely listen to Satellite radio? Besides, I really don't drive enough out of town or on trips to warrant satellite radio.

So, "Goodbye to Sirius/XM"!

jpp75 · June 2015

abacomike said:

stever said:

Probably just the camera, but it looks like it could be cramped if the console is as big as it looks in the pic.

I like the looks of the vehicle, but it sure looks narrow in those front foot wells. Mercedes-Benz is going all out with those stand-alone NAV screens in all their new cars. I do not like them - they "cramp" your front visibility. I don't look at my screen very much except for traffic and weather. The screen is also susceptible to sunlight and glare.

I don't care for the stand alone screens either, it looks like an iPad glued to the dash.

jpp75 · June 2015

tyguy said:
I've learned to ignore the J.D. Studies and don't even bother to fill out their surveys when they come to me. Useless data in my opinion. A transmission failure holds the same weight as someone who doesn't like the color of the instrument panel at night. It's too hard to parse the hard quality data from the fluffy opinions.

Same here, J.D. Power lost credibility a long time ago.

andres3 · June 2015

jpp5862 said:

tyguy said:
I've learned to ignore the J.D. Studies and don't even bother to fill out their surveys when they come to me. Useless data in my opinion. A transmission failure holds the same weight as someone who doesn't like the color of the instrument panel at night. It's too hard to parse the hard quality data from the fluffy opinions.
Same here, J.D. Power lost credibility a long time ago.

I quadruple that statement, I wouldn't be surprised if the JD Power figures were corrupted by highest bidders and other malarkey.

nyccarguy · June 2015

Just another marketing tool that automakers can use in their commercials - winner of the JD Power initial quality award. Look who is at the top of the list, PORSCHE! Who snt going to write glowing remarks about their Porsche in the 1st 90 days of ownership?

dino001 · June 2015

andres3 said:

jpp5862 said:

tyguy said:
I've learned to ignore the J.D. Studies and don't even bother to fill out their surveys when they come to me. Useless data in my opinion. A transmission failure holds the same weight as someone who doesn't like the color of the instrument panel at night. It's too hard to parse the hard quality data from the fluffy opinions.
Same here, J.D. Power lost credibility a long time ago.
I quadruple that statement, I wouldn't be surprised if the JD Power figures were corrupted by highest bidders and other malarkey.

I don't think they are necessarily corrupt, as taking bribes or something like that. They may be, but I don't have evidence for that. I simply think their methodology is deeply flawed, especially in statistical data aggregation with minor common issues blown out of proportion, say cupholder design that may be wrong for many drivers, showing as 80 problems per 100 units, whereas major less frequent issues (big mechanical failure that happens to 5 or 10 percent of the engines, very high rate in terms of reliability, but it will show up as only 5-10 problems per car, are not weighed sufficiently. There is also credibility of rating system itself for the particular trim level in a model, where conclusions are simply unreliable due to insufficient data, but they (JD Power) wouldn't admit it. That's probably most corrupt aspect of their results - they give you impression of much more accurate service than it really is (see my example above).

driver100 · June 2015

jpp5862 said:

abacomike said:

stever said:

Probably just the camera, but it looks like it could be cramped if the console is as big as it looks in the pic.

I like the looks of the vehicle, but it sure looks narrow in those front foot wells. Mercedes-Benz is going all out with those stand-alone NAV screens in all their new cars. I do not like them - they "cramp" your front visibility. I don't look at my screen very much except for traffic and weather. The screen is also susceptible to sunlight and glare.

I don't care for the stand alone screens either, it looks like an iPad glued to the dash.

I think the interior looks narrower than it is. Our 2015 model looks narrow from the outside, but is is wider than the A4 was, and I think it is just that it is higher so looks narrower.

Having said that, the front space is narrower than most mid sized cars, but it is very comfortable, and you have lots of room to stretch your legs...I am guessing the 2016 should have as much interior room as the 15 model.

That stand up screen is a turn off for a lot of people. I was just talking to a fellow who marked next to me and had an X1 and it has a built in screen. He said he doesn't like the stand up screen on the newer models. I prefer a built in screen....like the E400, and my wife prefers her built in screen on her 2015 GLX, Mike likes his built in screen,....so, who is that flat screen being marketed to....I haven't heard one person who said they prefer it.

stickguy · June 2015

my guess, the young generation that grew up with cell phones and ipads.

driver100 · June 2015

I think those JD Power surveys are good just to judge the extremes. Probably Fiat, Smart, Rover really do have more problems than average, and Porcshe Kia and Jaguar are better than average.

I checked JD Powers and put a chart up about 2 days ago but I did it for 2014 models, and it was quite different. I thought 2014s would be out longer so you would get a truer picture of reliability. Cadillac was near the top on the 2014s, not so much on this chart.

driver100 · June 2015

stickguy said:
my guess, the young generation that grew up with cell phones and ipads.

That's what I thought too...but, they aren't the ones buying bmws, MBs, and all these other cars that have the stand up screen. I think someone else said they may be planning for the future...you will take it out and use it as a tablet etc. Also, maybe they will make it so you can buy a newer version, and just snap it out.

If my favorite car had it I guess I would get it...but, I really prefer it built in. Would like it to be as large as possible though.

stickguy · June 2015

That was my idea. the trend seems to be just having the car be a monitor, and your phone be the "processor", and having software in the car running the android and apply play applications. At least it will keep your system from becoming a dinosaur!

probably the perfect solution for the car companies is just having a docking port, where you plug in your own tablet. Save them money!

imidazol97 · June 2015

This is the vehicle dependability study for 2015 from JD Powers. This measures the problems
of 2012 vehicles owners reported for the last ONE year of ownership.

Links to the pull outs:

http://www.jdpower.com/sites/default/files/2015 VDS Slide2_0.jpg
http://www.jdpower.com/sites/default/files/2015 VDS Slide3_0.jpg
Page link for JD Powers data
http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/2015-vehicle-dependability-study

laurasdada · June 2015

Cool, Jag isn't even on the VDS list. And we all know what that means: Jags did not have even one problem after 3 years of ownership! Hail, Britannia!

Well, 18 months of ownership, other than a rattle in the sunroof area when the shade is pulled all the way back, no issues to report!

From the early reviews of the upcoming XE, it sounds like if you want a BMW of 10 years ago, you buy next year's Jag. If you want a Jag of 10 years ago, you buy today's BMW!

driver100 · June 2015

imidazol97 said:
This is the vehicle dependability study for 2015 from JD Powers. This measures the problems
of 2012 vehicles owners reported for the last ONE year of ownership.

Links to the pull outs:

http://www.jdpower.com/sites/default/files/2015 VDS Slide2_0.jpg
http://www.jdpower.com/sites/default/files/2015 VDS Slide3_0.jpg
Page link for JD Powers data
http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/2015-vehicle-dependability-study

That's the chart I posted and it seems a lot different. This chart would probably be more useful, as it refers to problems over a longer period of time.

Once again though, I would just look at extremes, Lexus good - Fiat bad.

driver100 · June 2015

laurasdada said:
Cool, Jag isn't even on the VDS list. And we all know what that means: Jags did not have even one problem after 3 years of ownership! Hail, Britannia!

Well, 18 months of ownership, other than a rattle in the sunroof area when the shade is pulled all the way back, no issues to report!

From the early reviews of the upcoming XE, it sounds like if you want a BMW of 10 years ago, you buy next year's Jag. If you want a Jag of 10 years ago, you buy today's BMW!

Jag was #3 on the other JD list. Maybe too few reporting in for this list.

2016 looks the same to me (very nice) but it is supposed to be larger inside and out. One of my main concerns is not many dealerships...even though they are reliable....I wouldn't want to be stuck in some little town on Christmas Day.

imidazol97 · June 2015

driver100 said:

Jag was #3 on the other JD list. Maybe too few reporting in for this list.

I suspect you're right on there that the sample size was too small.

driver100 · June 2015

The thing about Mitsubishi. They sell over a million cars a year, they are still pretty large, about 25% as many cars as Honda, about 75% of the cars Mazda sells. They sell a lot of cars in Asia, not too many in the USA though their sales are improving.

They build sturdy cars with excellent engineering.

abacomike · June 2015

Well, they took Dad down to surgery at 7:15 AM EDT this morning. I am just praying the surgeon can get him going without a catheter after a few days of healing. Then, hopefully into rehab for 7-10 days and then finally home. I just want his remaining time here to be as comfortable as possible.

If surgery is not successful, I guess he'll have to go into assisted living. I am incapable of caring for him in his present condition.

stickguy · June 2015

Good luck mike.

driver100 · June 2015

stickguy said:
Good luck mike.

Exactly!

We are at the age where a lot of us have these responsibilities, or have lived through them. Good luck, just do the best you can - you can't make everything perfect.

nyccarguy · June 2015

Best wishes for you and your Dad Mike. You are an amazing son!

abacomike · June 2015

nyccarguy said:

Best wishes for you and your Dad Mike. You are an amazing son!

He just came up from surgery - seems OK - but he still keeps trying to remove his catheter. He's on sedatives and dilaudid for pain. Haven't spoken to the doctor yet but will know more later.

fezo · June 2015

Best of luck, Mike. It's not a terribly difficult procedure but with your dad's age and that it reached the point where it was pretty much a necessity it;s not sail through it time.

I had the catheter in a day and I can understand his hating it but I could not imagine pulling it out!

Stick with that thought of knowing when he needs to go into assisted living. My read is that you'd already passed that point which we did with my mom and while dad never did go into that I can second guess myself forever but things were what they were.

And know that deep inside your dad knows that you've essentially given up your own life for him. You're a good man - but we already knew that.

roadburner · June 2015

stickguy said:
Good luck mike.

Ditto!!!

isellhondas · June 2015

Cars should be evaluated after 100,000 miles to tell the REAL picture.

driver100 · June 2015

isellhondas said:
Cars should be evaluated after 100,000 miles to tell the REAL picture.

That's the JD Powers survey I would like to see!

fezo · June 2015

driver100 said:

isellhondas said:
Cars should be evaluated after 100,000 miles to tell the REAL picture.

That's the JD Powers survey I would like to see!

And you never will.

isellhondas · June 2015

I remember once Consumer's Report gave a red dot (excellent) dot for the brakes on 1996 Honda Accords but gave the 1997 models a black dot (bad).

The thing is, nothing was changed between those two years!

thebean · June 2015

isellhondas said:

I remember once Consumer's Report gave a red dot (excellent) dot for the brakes on 1996 Honda Accords but gave the 1997 models a black dot (bad). The thing is, nothing was changed between those two years!

Isn't that dot system based on their surveys? Apparently a lot more respondents cited brake problems for that model year car. Or am I missing something about the CR ratings? I'm not taking up for them because I have never had good luck buying their recommended items.

imidazol97 · June 2015

thebean said:

isellhondas said:

I remember once Consumer's Report gave a red dot (excellent) dot for the brakes on 1996 Honda Accords but gave the 1997 models a black dot (bad).
The thing is, nothing was changed between those two years!

Isn't that dot system based on their surveys? Apparently a lot more respondents cited brake problems for that model year car. Or am I missing something about the CR ratings? I'm not taking up for them because I have never had good luck buying their recommended items.

That's a symptom of what's good about J D Power's methodology of using an actual random survey while CR uses a sample of some of their subscribers. The subscribers do not represent a random sample of owners of a particular model across the county.

Didn't Consumer Reports used to recommend new models from a manufacturer they liked just based on that they liked the vehicle the year before so it has to be good after the makeover. Was it the Avalon or Camry where they had to back off their recommendation?

Mr_Shiftright · June 2015

I think the best survey would be to get a hold of dealer warranty claims reports---fat chance of that ever happening.

suydam · June 2015

No, they don't recommend new versions until they get enough data, usually in year 2. Yes, they use their subscriber surveys but it's a huge database. JD Powers includes connectivity problems, a large percentage of which are driver learning curves. It would be much better if they separated those out, as it is t really reliability, but the annoyance factor.

graphicguy · June 2015

First an update. BBB called today and said Cadillac doesn't want to entertain my request for a buyback. Sure, that's a surprise answer. BBB said they want to go to arbitration. No surprise there, either. GM pays BBB and the arbitrator. Hmmmm....no conflict of interest there, right?

Anyway, I told the BBB person that I was going to pursue this with a legal representative who will charge back their services to Cadillac. He insisted on setting up arbitration, but I took that as a sign they must get paid based on at least one factor keeping this out of legal hands and within the BBB.

Another Strategic Vision interview (last one) coming up on Monday at 6:30 p.m. EDT. It's supposed to last 45 minutes. In all honesty,I can't wait to get into the meat and potatoes of that interview...particularly my Caddy experiences.

Now, onto bits and pieces. Wife needed the Accord, and since I needed a car for a business trip to Waukesha, WI, I rented a car...a Sentra to be exact. Won't do that again. Yes, it got about 44-45 MPG on the highway, and about 35 MPG in town. A/C worked well. But, that's where the positives begin and end. there was a tinny "thrumming sound" coming from the rear. It sounded like thin metal that had a resonance problem. Not a good sound. Made more noise than power. The CVT in the wife's Accord is great. The Sentra's CVT is the exact opposite, It's terrible.

Buy a Fiesta, or a Cruz, or a Civic....anything but a Sentra.

Something I said I'd never do, but I was bored. Not a lot to do at night in Wausheka. But, they did have their version of an Automall right near my hotel. So, after my meetings were done. and I had dinner. I wandered over. What made this easy and interesting was the fact that they had a Maserati dealership, next to a Mercedes dealership, next to an Infiniti dealership...all part of the same auto group.

Cruising the Mercedes lot, I was approached by a young sale person. Nice guy. He asked what I was looking for. I explained that I was from out of town and just killing time. He said he was slow..."and who knows? If I find something you like, you may drive it back home." Doubtful, but fair enough. I told him my sister bought a C Class last summer. He went over how different the new '15's are.

Gotta say, they are mighty good looking. Didn't expect a test drive, but he said they had a demo 20 feet from where we were standing. He gets a copy of my license and away we go. This was the turbo 4 cyl, lightly optioned. No sport package, no NAV (but still a big screen in the middle of the dash), no leather, but a sunroof and upgraded stereo and 4 matic. We went on the interstate, over broken pavement and around some twists and turns. It's not a handler like a BMW. But, it's a very, very nice car. Very good materials and build. A very nice compromise between handling and ride. It had 17" tires. I have to believe the 18" that come standard on the sport package would tighten up handling. Mid-$40s on the sticker. Add a sport package and NAV, probably upper $40s. It feels like it's punching well above its weight class (sort of like the TLX did).

In this price range, the C Class should be on everyone's must drive list.

Next up, the Infiniti Q50. Explained the same thing to my sales lady...out of town...just looking...killing time. Same response as the Mercedes sales person...slow night, might like the car enough to buy and drive home (she even offered to return the rental to Hertz for me).

The one I drove was Q50S, red metallic...again, pretty car. Sport seats were comfy. Sounded "industrial" on start up (not in a good way). I know the V6 they've been using can be gruff, and maybe it's because I had just driven the C. But, it did not sound good. Good power....as always with this engine. Nice upgrade from the G37. But, the last G37 I drove "felt" faster. Steering felt better than the last Q I drove, but the Benz's steering felt better. Suspension felt HARD without much in the way of steering feel.

All loaded up at $50K, I expected more. Not a bad car, just a lot of really good cars around the same price point that are probably a bit better. That makes the G37s a slamming deal at below $40K, as I'd prefer the G over the Q.

Anyway, fun way to kill 90 minutes, no harm, no foul.

If I were in the market today, it would be between the C Class and the TLX.

cdnpinhead · June 2015

suydam said:
Yes, they use their subscriber surveys but it's a huge database.

I'm not so sure it's that large any more. The people who read the actual magazine represent dinasours at their finest, and the on-line demographic probably doesn't skew toward younger people. On a related note, younger people, particularly those in large metro areas, are opting out of cars altogether. Oh well. . .

I've whined for decades about the self-selected cohort that represents the CR survey database. People who are willing to plod through the very large number of questions related to their car(s) do so because: 1) They're really disappointed with the car, 2) They love the car beyond all belief and/or it represents some sort of green lifestyle (Pious, anyone?) statement, or 3) They have absolutely no life and 20-30 minutes (more or less) spent on a survey represents the highlight of their day. Several posters here, I think, would identify.

A randomly-selected group of people doing a statistically valid survey would float my boat a lot better, but I'm not holding my breath.

As was pointed out earlier, the real deal is the manufacturer's data, which I'm sure is guarded very closely. We'll never see it.

stever · June 2015

Looking at warranty accrual numbers is kind of fun. I go to warrantyweek.com for that.

Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles

Your Privacy