What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

ruking1 · January 2016

stevedebi said:

ruking1 said:
Indeed, the diesel has such range over a gasser!

But wait EV's winter woes https://www.yahoo.com/autos/worrisome-problem-electric-cars-no-one-talking-200400099.html

Interesting revelations about ethanol ! Four times dirtier then the "dirty diesel gate" and four times as deadlly per EPA's own research! ! ? http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-wp-blm-ethanol-comment-1666beb8-bf79-11e5-98c8-7fab78677d51-20160120-story.html
The part about EV losing range is true, but in point of fact the batteries also warm up as regenerative braking kicks in. So it isn't as bad as they might say. In my C-Max Plug In, my electric range goes from 25 to about 20 in the winter.

It (minus - 5 mpg) might not sound like much but it still is a 20% LOSS. The diesel nexus of course if my 36 mpg (in winter ) had a 20% (- 7.2 mpg) loss, the howling call would go out: little to no advantage to diesel. So if I said gee that's not so bad, that would be taken as a sign of bloviating. At the same time the gasser version at 21 miles a gallon would be given a pass for 10% to 15% loss in winter !! (-2.1 mpg to - 5.25 mpg)

texases · January 2016

That's why the hybrid part is worthwhile. No range problems. My (non-plug-in) is good for 38 mpgs and 600 miles, on regular. For high mpgs in small to mid-sized cars a conventional hybrid is hard to beat. Mid-large SUVs are perfect for diesels.

As for the battery pollution, regular hybrids have fairly small battery packs, a fraction of that on an EV. I trust that all that are worried about battery pollution don't use cell phones or laptops - the world uses MANY more batteries there...

ruking1 · January 2016

The "BATTERY" pollution IS the new pollution!! That is the real disingenuousness of it all! IF the environment blather is to be believed. Yet those very same folks would probably not be caught dead without multiple BATTERY devices!

Mr_Shiftright · January 2016

That argument lacks scientific rigor. The only real way to measure this alleged "pollution" is to determine the carbon footprint of the "fuel" that powers the vehicle. If you give the EV the right type of low carbon "juice", as is now available in many parts of the world, (and which varies greatly even state-to-state in the USA) the EV absolutely crushes the petrol or diesel car in carbon emissions, mile for mile.

So critics of the EV's "greenness" need to support low carbon energy production. If they don't, then their argument is obviously not centered on an actual concern for emission levels. It lacks intellectual honesty.

carboy21 · January 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:

That argument lacks scientific rigor. The only real way to measure this alleged "pollution" is to determine the carbon footprint of the "fuel" that powers the vehicle. If you give the EV the right type of low carbon "juice", as is now available in many parts of the world, (and which varies greatly even state-to-state in the USA) the EV absolutely crushes the petrol or diesel car in carbon emissions, mile for mile. So critics of the EV's "greenness" need to support low carbon energy production. If they don't, then their argument is obviously not centered on an actual concern for emission levels. It lacks intellectual honesty.

Producing batteries pollutes the environment
Disposing the batteries pollutes the environment
Producing electricity pollutes the environment
Kalifornians want all the pollution in someone else's backyard
Hypocrite liberal eco [non-permissible content removed]

stever · January 2016

If and when EVs get a 400 mile range, ICE will be toast.

And so will Jiffy Lube and many of your neighborhood garages.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2016

carboy21 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

That argument lacks scientific rigor. The only real way to measure this alleged "pollution" is to determine the carbon footprint of the "fuel" that powers the vehicle. If you give the EV the right type of low carbon "juice", as is now available in many parts of the world, (and which varies greatly even state-to-state in the USA) the EV absolutely crushes the petrol or diesel car in carbon emissions, mile for mile.

So critics of the EV's "greenness" need to support low carbon energy production. If they don't, then their argument is obviously not centered on an actual concern for emission levels. It lacks intellectual honesty.

Producing batteries pollutes the environment
Disposing the batteries pollutes the environment
Producing electricity pollutes the environment
Kalifornians want all the pollution in someone else's backyard
Hypocrite liberal eco [non-permissible content removed]

So does producing any car, and so does powering any car, and so does recycling any car. This argument is a non-starter.

Given the same low carbon type of fuel in each case, the EV will trounce the ICE.

gagrice · January 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:
It has nothing to do with politics. A person is either competent or he isn't, a corporation tells the truth or doesn't. Moral compasses should not be spinning.

I agree, so why do so many people jump on the bandwagon when they think they have a politician down? I try to dig for the root cause in any debacle. And generally you will find a government employee that did not do their job properly. As was the case in the BP deepwater disaster. It was a Federal Minerals and Management person that was supposed to be monitoring. Too many regulations and poor enforcement.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2010/0617/BP-oil-spill-MMS-shortcomings-include-dearth-of-regulations

ruking1 · January 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:
That argument lacks scientific rigor. The only real way to measure this alleged "pollution" is to determine the carbon footprint of the "fuel" that powers the vehicle. If you give the EV the right type of low carbon "juice", as is now available in many parts of the world, (and which varies greatly even state-to-state in the USA) the EV absolutely crushes the petrol or diesel car in carbon emissions, mile for mile.

So critics of the EV's "greenness" need to support low carbon energy production. If they don't, then their argument is obviously not centered on an actual concern for emission levels. It lacks intellectual honesty.

For a guy who has a hard time believing 36 miles a gallon is better than 21 miles a gallon (same model) you now want to talk to me about scientific rigor or the lack there of?

?

gagrice · January 2016

carboy21Producing batteries pollutes the environment
Disposing the batteries pollutes the environment
Producing electricity pollutes the environment
Kalifornians want all the pollution in someone else's backyard

All very true. I would be willing to bet you could not build an entire Hybrid, EV or Smartphone in the state of CA. The regulations would stop them cold. Yet the state mandates their use. California has one of the largest known reserves of Rare Earth Elements. And they tried to produce them and are again shut down. No way we can compete with China and other countries that have little concern for the environment. So when the state and Feds say no more products can be sold in the USA that are not made under the same strict EPA rules as we are forced to do business under, I refuse to believe they are serious about the environment.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/everyday-myths/does-hybrid-car-production-waste-offset-hybrid-benefits.htm

carboy21 · January 2016

The trouble with plug-in hybrids (and electric cars, too) is that electricity isn't always cleaner than gasoline. More than 45 percent of electricity in the U.S. is generated by coal-powered plants [source: EIA]. According to another Argonne National Laboratory report, if a plug-in hybrid charges from coal-generated electricity, it could be responsible for emitting up to 10 percent more greenhouse gasses than a conventional vehicle and up to 60 percent more than a standard hybrid [source: Elgowainy].

Mr_Shiftright · January 2016

Once again the argument lacks scientific rigor IMO, and in the worst way. The author is beating the wrong bush. California is supporting low carbon energy, not high carbon production techniques.

When companies can make batteries using low carbon energy to produce them, they will do so in California.

California is not excluding battery companies, the battery companies are excluding themselves. Nevada has no such rigorous vision for its population. It wants jobs, and industry. So that is Nevada's decision. Perhaps it does not have California's crushing need for environmental controls. China doesn't seem to mind poisoning the air of its cities. So that's the decision China made.

California minds big-time.

By the way you do know that Teslas are built here, right? (Old NUMMI plant, right in the Bay Area).

As for 21 mpg vs. 36 mpg, here again this is blue sky data plucked from the air. If you compare a 2016 Jetta gas car with a 2016 Jetta TDI you will find a very slim margin of MPG differences.

Historically this is nothing new for California. CA forced the automakers to conform to its standards. CA is the 600 lb gorilla in the automobile market and shows no signs of slowing down in that regard.

So California is simply doing what it has always done. If you want to play here, you have to follow the rules.

I'm a bit surprised you haven't made note of this decades-long agenda in California. It's the way things have been since the 1960s.

ruking1 · January 2016

gagrice said:
carboy21Producing batteries pollutes the environment
Disposing the batteries pollutes the environment
Producing electricity pollutes the environment
Kalifornians want all the pollution in someone else's backyard

All very true. I would be willing to bet you could not build an entire Hybrid, EV or Smartphone in the state of CA. The regulations would stop them cold. Yet the state mandates their use. California has one of the largest known reserves of Rare Earth Elements. And they tried to produce them and are again shut down. No way we can compete with China and other countries that have little concern for the environment. So when the state and Feds say no more products can be sold in the USA that are not made under the same strict EPA rules as we are forced to do business under, I refuse to believe they are serious about the environment.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/everyday-myths/does-hybrid-car-production-waste-offset-hybrid-benefits.htm

The real reason why we fought the war in Afghanistan ! The US CIA estimates $10 trillion in rare earth minerals, not to mention gold. China is trolling for mining contracts! As most know, Afghanistan has been the provider of narcotics for at least the last 75 years. Narcotics are useful in "urban renewal" the so called ... demo portion.

ruking1 · January 2016

Again, we have to agree to disagree. CA has been a job destroyer! A lot of formally really nice towns have been gutted!

stever · January 2016

"If consumers are angry with Volkswagen for admitting it installed defeat devices on diesel engines to sidestep mandatory equipment to ensure cleaner emissions, BMW has yet to see impact on its own diesel sales.

The Bavarian automaker sells multiple vehicles in the U.S. with 2.0L 4-cyl. and 3.0L 6-cyl. diesel engines, and executives say the take-rate for diesels has remained about the same since the news broke in Wolfsburg in September.

But the negative impact on diesel engines overall seems inevitable, says Wolfgang Stütz, general manager-advanced development of diesel engines for BMW."

VW Saga Will Hurt Diesel Market, BMW Exec Says (wardsauto.com)

ruking1 · January 2016

Well, if you believe what the BMW executive said, the only diesels that got hurt were VW's.(latter part of 2015 my) Obviously not many VW diesel shoppers/buyers chose to cross shop &/or buy BMW/MB diesels. He, of course can conjecture, just like anybody else. Unless of course, that is BMWs way of telling us that they are getting out of the US diesel market. The same would probably be true with MB diesels.

gagrice · January 2016

California minds big-time.

Just not enough to ban products made in less than environmentally sound conditions by slave labor.

By the way you do know that Teslas are built here, right? (Old NUMMI plant, right in the Bay Area).

Assembled from parts made all over the World.

I'm a bit surprised you haven't made note of this decades-long agenda in California. It's the way things have been since the 1960s.

Well aware of what CA has been like since 1943. That is one reason I got out of here in 1970 and went where the good jobs were at. I would sure hate to be trying to make a living here today. Jobs in my field pay less than I was making in 1980. You may be proud of the fact that CA has pushed out thousands of companies. I don't see it helping the state sustain its obese budget.

carboy21 · January 2016

A handful of people have been stuck for up to 12 hours on a frozen, 14-mile stretch of Interstate 75 running through Rockcastle County, Kentucky State Police Captain David Jude said
"It's truck after truck after truck and cars sliding off the roadway," Jude said. "We're going car to car now to get people off the road."
It's not clear how many people have been affected, but pictures on social media show dozens of cars and trucks stuck on the highway.
Among them is Caitlin Centner, a reporter for CNN affiliate WKYT.
She's been on the highway since 5:30 p.m. Friday and had "not moved a single inch since" when she spoke to CNN early Saturday morning.
Centner said she can see more than 100 cars for about a half-mile ahead of her. People nearby are running out of gas, and many have been without food and water for a long time.

When you are stuck in snow on an Interstate, you wish you had a Passat/Jetta TDI with a 800 mile range in a single fuel tank

imidazol97 · January 2016

gagrice said:

Governor Snyder's response is...well...pathetic. He is, after all, called a "governor". That's like the CEO of GM saying "well nobody told me. Don't blame ME!"

I happen to believe the left would not be screaming so loud if it was a Democrat in that office. After all the same bunch said very little when Jennifer Granholm was governor and she cut the school budgets. She also appointed emergency managers to cities that were failing including Flint and Detroit. It is all political to discredit the party in office.

Notice what many are calling the worst environmental disaster since the BP oil spill is going on in CA. It was the state regulators that passed on the well. Yet not a single call for Moonbeam to resign. It is ultimately the governor's responsibility same as the water in Flint.

I live in the area where I can listen to WJR 760 and I listened off and on to a great 9-12 talk show host, Frank Beckman, as this was blowing up.

Earlier Flint council at the time wanted to change supply of water from Detroit Water to a new group of users that was being put together who would use water from Lake Huron, as does Detroit Water. That new group [of cities] would have their structure in place in about 2 years. But Detroit Water cut them off since Flint had voted to leave in two years.

I am not clear if that was a clause in the existing contract with Detroit Water or just punitive action on the part of Detroit Water that they would not supply Flint for the interim 2 years until the new group would be ready to supply their own water from Lake Huron at a lower cost.

The water from the Flint river that was in place was more acidic than the water from Detroit Water that had been coursing through the pipes for years. So copper and lead in the pipe that normally would leach at very low levels was catching up from the mild pH environment to the new water's pH.

As to the Governor Snyder attacks, check the political allegiance of the city council and mayor who were in place whent the vote to leave Detroit Water and who voted to use the river water. You'll see why little is being said about their culpability.

Myself, I would go after Detroit Water for not supplying water until the transition to the new water system was safe and in place. Cutting off the Huron water that was coming through Detroit Water because Flint and others were forming their own cheaper Huron water source is criminal.

As to the big hoopla from the media folks who give us their political opinions that it was racism and hatred of people on low incomes that the governor--not the city--had for the people in the City of Flint, I heard a state legislator say that there were two zip codes in Michigan with higher percents of tests showing lead levels in people's blood.

I.e., the copper and lead pipe problem may be more omnipresent than many folks would like to believe around the country with the aged infrastructures in place through which our water and sewage are handled. Could be in your community's pipes. Just like enforcing pollution laws on VW diesels, the polluters must be held accountable.

stever · January 2016

Michigan seemed pretty corrupt when I lived there.

As did Mississippi, Tennessee (I lived there during the Blanton pardon selling days), Idaho and of course here in New Mexico. Alaska was a different kind of corruption - it was small enough you could actually meet the powers that be (and get some small time palm greasing that way, plus there was so much cash floating around, no one much cared where it went).

Wouldn't surprise me to learn that VW put a lot of political pressure on CARB to regulate the difficult parts of the emission test away, and to just rely on the OBDII read out. No sniffers?

houdini1 · January 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:

gagrice said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

carboy21 said:
EPA can poison 100,000 people in Flint, Michigan by getting cheap water from a river instead of the Lake Huron., as the residents of Flint are poor and underprivileged.
But Californians must be protected from breathing NOX because the EPA is a tool of the rich liberal eco-[non-permissible content removed].
EPA should be sued for $48 Billion dollars for harming nearly 100,000 American citizens.

Over to the "motorheads"
Somebody gave you a carload of bad information. The culprit is the State of Michigan's Department of Environmental Quality. The DEQ was *warned* by the EPA in a memo that the water contained too much lead.

The EPA did the right thing here, so give credit where it is due.

The CARB in California has strong support from its population through all economic strata. We are, if anything, encouraging further regulation of pollution. What the rest of the country wants to breath, swallow and eat is their business with the Feds. If say Texas wants to abolish every pollution control in existence and somehow lobby the Feds to allow them to do it, more power (and smog) to them!

You seem to confuse CARB with EPA?

Not sure where you read that. There is no lead in the water. It is in the pipes of the older homes. The water from the river has a low PH factor which causes corrosion and exposure to lead in the joints. Both the EPA and DEQ told the Mayor and head of the water utility that the water was safe. There is a good article that explains it from start. It is an interview with the mayor that was involved with the switch over to save money. It eliminates the liberal hatred of the Governor.

I have been informed that the protective coating on the insides of the piping that prevents lead leaching is actually called “mineral scale”. While biofilm does coat the insides of piping, it is the mineral scale that is the chief barrier that prevents lead from being leached into the water supply.

http://www.eclectablog.com/2015/10/interview-flint-mayor-dayne-walling-talks-about-flints-water-crisis-emergency-managers-and-the-state-government.html
That is correct. The lead came from the pipes that were corroded by the salinity of the river. It is also correct the EPA warned the state of Michigan of the problem. Source of info is Jan 16, 2016 article in The New Yorker.

Gov. Synder pretty much ran out of excuses and apologized for his state's handling of the matter.

What all this shows is how important state environmental agencies really are, and how they need to be kept strong and well-funded.

So that was VWs problem...they weren't very well funded !

ruking1 · January 2016

stever said:
Michigan seemed pretty corrupt when I lived there.

"..."

Wouldn't surprise me to learn that VW put a lot of political pressure on CARB to regulate the difficult parts of the emission test away, and to just rely on the OBDII read out. No sniffers?

You and Shifty are acting SO naïvely on these points! (Or love being disingenuous) We've been telling you that the diesel smog tests for diesel cars have NEVER measured actual emissions!!! Then suddenly this information which somehow you all never computed, is now part & parcel of some HUGE (right wing) conspiracy theory! ? Come on guys! It has been SOP for years! Aka, rip off! Indeed even after "VW diesel gate" we were recently mandated to bring it to a smog test and they did exactly what they've been doing all along ! ? It's really SOS/DD! Absolutely shamelessly took the "smog" fee! So even EPA/CARB knows this fake MT Everest mountaineering (30,000 ft is @ the mole hill level! (Less than 1 in) However, it is a political hot potato at the HIGHEST levels! It is beyond total BS! So the 2009 VW TDI is good for another 2 years to 2018!

houdini1 · January 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:
It has nothing to do with politics. A person is either competent or he isn't, a corporation tells the truth or doesn't. Moral compasses should not be spinning.

Now you are just being disingenuous or incredibly naive.

stever · January 2016

@ruking1, and now the chickens that took the shortcut have come home to roost. Short term gain for long term pain.

mmmm donuts.

ruking1 · January 2016

No, you all act like this is your first molehill! So the fines should be at the same level or less then levied against American OEMs! A slap on the limp wrist, wink, nod & like Fintail sez, move on & lets get over it!

Don't forget some fake tears! The death of diesel is way too premature !

stever · January 2016

Let's put some real world testing in place at the same time. No grandfathering and get the gross polluters off the road. Enough with the easy peazy cheating.

ruking1 · January 2016

The "effect" of this "moral outrage" are most of the gassers won't pass!!! Again this is another no-brainer !

You have to remember the Prius have been exempt! In 2004/2005 the EPA/ CARB took the unusual step of dumbing down a time tested test so hybrids could "cheat", albeit legally!? They still couldn't make the grade of their own blather! So you really think they'll pass ?

stever · January 2016

I'm afraid you've used up this week's allocation of exclamation points. Don't forget to breathe.

Oh, but avoid breathing when you hit your neighborhood CARB station - that stuff is bad for you.

stever · January 2016

TTAC has a quick recap about who knew what when, and exonerates Bosch.

Report: Many Volkswagen Managers Knew About ‘Defeat Device’

gagrice · January 2016

stever said:
Let's put some real world testing in place at the same time. No grandfathering and get the gross polluters off the road. Enough with the easy peazy cheating.

I think only 11 states test diesels at all. If they are like CA, it is totally subjective and up to the tester to say yeah or nay on what comes from the exhaust pipe. Purely a money maker for the state. Nothing would have come about if not for those nosy Europeans butting in over here. They have a lot of nerve with the pollution in their cities.

ruking1 · January 2016

So yeah, how do you like all this global warming in New York Ciy/State, and Wash DC! Even dah mayor said this is a record-setting snowstorm since the 1800s ? Guess what, not many cars then! See I told you even the left doesn't believe their own blather! Certainly nature does no! I am waiting for dah mayor/s to call this a racist snowstorm! 2 feet of snow and the chicken littles are out in full force !?

I can't even make this stuff up !

I have a large # (12) of close family that routinely go back-and-forth to Boston, MA. My money is on a family member coming back (today) will be on time !

gagrice · January 2016

What all this shows is how important state environmental agencies really are, and how they need to be kept strong and well-funded.

Funny how liberals will never blame the agency that is supposed to be doing their job? Always someone else's fault or they want to throw more money at the problem. Never occurs to them that civil servants could be a bunch of lazy feather bedding people. Notice how it only took a couple days to get rid of the VW CEO and several engineers. How many EPA/CARB execs have fallen on the sword? Or are we saying corporate people are far smarter than anyone working in Government?

ruking1 · January 2016

My money is on: they probably got promoted

Being asleep at the wheel can/ does have its rewards ?

And here I thought I was getting shortchanged !? http://www.autoblog.com/2016/01/22/european-authorities-vw-compensation-program/

But then again, $500 and ULSD being the cheapest price ($1.93, expensive locally) in many years.... Life is good! Well, 259 gals on VW A anyway.

stever · January 2016

gagrice said:
Funny how liberals will never blame the agency that is supposed to be doing their job?

Funny, I always associated VW drivers as being a bit left of center and VW diesel drivers as being liberals who like performance cars. That's why they didn't settle for a Prius.

Something tells me that those folks are blaming VW more than CARB/EPA.

ruking1 · January 2016

Well, that is exactly what he sai !?

A start would be if EPA/CARB refunded the monies for non smog tests they made me do masquerading as smog tests. ( $60 buys 31 gal of ULSD) I suspect Armageddon and Jesus' second coming are more of a sure thing!

So is there any question that( @ least) Tesla is a (government) EV monopoly? http://news.yahoo.com/china-cuts-green-car-subsidies-automakers-electric-dreams-152724174--sector.html

fintail · January 2016

You'll include commercial vehicles in that, right? Along with lawnmowers, leaf blowers, scooters, maritime transit, etc.

I wonder if CARB still actively hires "scientists" with fake degrees.

stever said:
Let's put some real world testing in place at the same time. No grandfathering and get the gross polluters off the road. Enough with the easy peazy cheating.

stever · January 2016

The marine crackdown is just getting started. And yes on including commercial vehicles. The day trippers should go to CNG for any delivery under, say, 80 miles.

I hope to never have to own another gas powered small engine (other than the one that will be in the Prius we'll probably buy).

)

houdini1 · January 2016

stever said:
The marine crackdown is just getting started. And yes on including commercial vehicles. The day trippers should go to CNG for any delivery under, say, 80 miles.

I hope to never have to own another gas powered small engine (other than the one that will be in the Prius we'll probably buy). )

Have you seen the upcoming Ioniq?

stever · January 2016

Just a few blurbs. Not out until 2017 iirc?

carboy21 · January 2016

-----

houdini1 · January 2016

Third quarter of 2016 as a '17 model.

stever · January 2016

Wish it was more of a hatchback (and here sooner). The real thing hits the car shows in March. Maybe my wife would enjoy a shoulder season trip to NYC.

I am partial to Korean cars lately and Hyundai, unlike Toyota, doesn't have mandatory binding arbitration so I could more easily do a lemon law claim if I got a lemon.

Gee, push a car decision 9 months down the road? Does that sound like me?

By the time the Ioniq gets to the pipeline, so will the new Prius Five wagon that's running a year behind the new Prius hatch.

gagrice · January 2016

stever:Funny, I always associated VW drivers as being a bit left of center and VW diesel drivers as being liberals who like performance cars. That's why they didn't settle for a Prius.

Something tells me that those folks are blaming VW more than CARB/EPA.

No way of knowing the Demographics of VW TDI owners. Of all the ones I have seen not a single one had an Obama sticker on it.

Here is my position on the EPA/CARB. The tax payers hand them huge bundles of cash each year to protect our environment. Supposedly EPA tests 15% of all models sold to US. Yet over the 7 year range of VW TDI models not a single one was tested by them. Which tells me they are incapable of doing a good job and should be slapped around by the tax payers. I got a feeling a lot of people in Colorado would like to see them just go away before they do any more damage to the environment.

Which means the right of center needs to vote in people that will force the EPA to do their jobs a lot better than they have. They are great at Writing regulations that make it difficult for businesses to survive in the USA. Just don't bother to follow through.

fintail · January 2016

I think the diesels are fairly politically neutral - there will be enough cheapskate low cost buyers to even out the eco-dorks and affluent old hippies who think "clean diesel" means "no emissions" - at least when talk of money comes up and they drive their Jetta from CO to Chicago to make some kind of weird point.

ruking1 · January 2016

fintail said:
I think the diesels are fairly politically neutral - there will be enough cheapskate low cost buyers to even out the eco-dorks and affluent old hippies who think "clean diesel" means "no emissions" - at least when talk of money comes up and they drive their Jetta from CO to Chicago to make some kind of weird point.

I met one of those old hippies and his wife that you're talking about @ COSTCO. Both of us were looking to buy one of those 22 ft little giant ladders. He said without question, he could fit it into a Toyota PIOUS! ! I just looked@ him & smiled. I didn't say a word, but rolled my eyes, so my wife could see. Passing them in the parking lot, it was almost hilarious to see the ladder stick out of the back, blocking the hatch lid from closing. I knew before buying we had no issues with the 12 VW Touareg TDI. But really, this is not diesel related !

stever · January 2016

ruking1 said:
TDI. But really, this is not diesel related !

Ladder talk is better than the political posts, which will summarily be removed.

Just heard that a Leaf owner filled up at a Tesla station and had to have his fuel system purged....

stever · January 2016

"Volkswagen's development of software to cheat diesel-emissions tests was an open secret in its engine development department, Germany's Sueddeutsche Zeitung newspaper said on Friday, citing results from VW's internal investigation.

Many managers and staff dealing with emissions problems in the department knew of or were involved in developing the "defeat devices", said the newspaper, which researched the matter with regional broadcasters NDR and WDR."

VW probe finds manipulation was open secret in department (money-marketuk.com)

ruking1 · January 2016

stever said:

ruking1 said:
TDI. But really, this is not diesel related !
Ladder talk is better than the political posts, which will summarily be removed.

Just heard that a Leaf owner filled up at a Tesla station and had to have his fuel system purged....

Life has its ups & downs!

Well, how about those Denver Broncos?

Slow diesel News Day! . Costco, Folsom CA, ULSD $1.89,

RUG $2.17, PUG $2.39

texases · January 2016

gagrice said:
Here is my position on the EPA/CARB. The tax payers hand them huge bundles of cash each year to protect our environment. Supposedly EPA tests 15% of all models sold to US. Yet over the 7 year range of VW TDI models not a single one was tested by them.

How do you know this?

fintail · January 2016

These are the twits I was referring to:

http://jalopnik.com/this-couple-is-driving-cross-country-to-return-their-po-1753421381

Interesting logic used by this fine pair. My vehicle pollutes a lot, and my sensitive little heart finds that offensive. Best thing for me to do is drive it cross country and beg for attention. No doubt gobs of time and money to spare, I feel a "for thee, not me" lecture from types like this.

ruking1 said:

I met one of those old hippies and his wife that you're talking about @ COSTCO. Both of us were looking to buy one of those 22 ft little giant ladders. He said without question, he could fit it into a Toyota PIOUS! ! I just looked@ him & smiled. I didn't say a word, but rolled my eyes, so my wife could see. Passing them in the parking lot, it was almost hilarious to see the ladder stick out of the back, blocking the hatch lid from closing. I knew before buying we had no issues with the 12 VW Touareg TDI. But really, this is not diesel related !

What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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