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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    Diesel in SoCal @ 1.99 today...
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    Nothing to do only with diesel, but something to do with RUG/PUG, ULSD? http://finance.yahoo.com/news/walmart-just-signaled-terrifying-reality-152736348.html

    Lithium investor potential? Or NOT! http://news.yahoo.com/lithium-holds-battery-powered-potential-investors-151900260.html
  • jpp75jpp75 Member Posts: 1,535
    After two months with the gasser Touareg I'd be hard pressed to pay the premium for a diesel if they were available. The CPMD is lower but it takes too long to make up for the higher purchase price and the gasser does everything I need and then some.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    So I would take it that you don't come close to 12 years & or 180,000 miles?

    You also don't state what that premium was/is, when you negotiated your best deal for both TDI & gasser at the time.

    I am also curious what kind of mpg you are posting ? What kind of miles per month are you posting also ?

    So for example, in the case of the MB GLK250 BT upfront MSRP is $500 less than the GLK350. (gasser)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    jpp5862 said:

    After two months with the gasser Touareg I'd be hard pressed to pay the premium for a diesel if they were available. The CPMD is lower but it takes too long to make up for the higher purchase price and the gasser does everything I need and then some.

    I am sure the Touareg gas model is great to drive. I doubt it will accelerate going uphill from 55-75 mph with the diesel. And a very big plus for me is not having to fuel up near as often. Currently it looks like the price difference is about $6k. The TMV for a gas Touareg Lux is about $48k same as I paid for my TDI 2.5 years ago.

    Looking at Fuelly the gas Touareg gets about 16 MPG average. I am at 26.6 MPG over 28k miles. Which means my out of pocket is about $1200 per year less than if I bought the gas model. So about 5 years to make up the difference with just fuel cost. What will the selling premium be on the Touareg when I get ready to sell? It will be higher than the gas model or I won't sell it. Not having to go to a smelly gas station more than every 650 miles would be worth the premium. The Carcinogens put off by raw RUG & PUG should be avoided as much as possible.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited February 2016
    I was curious about the resale value of my VW TDI with all the current nonsense going on. Only three 2013 Touareg TDI Lux for sale. As you can see the $6k premium I paid did not go away while I owned it. There are 9 of the gas model available. I have posted the one with the closest mileage and price. I would not sell mine for $39k the asking price for the TDI. PS, I got $1000 because VW luvs me.

    https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/651388776/overview/

    https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/659849069/overview/
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Stepping it UP!? http://blog.caranddriver.com/mercedes-benz-debuts-new-four-cylinder-diesel/
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    ruking1 said:

    Stepping it UP!? http://blog.caranddriver.com/mercedes-benz-debuts-new-four-cylinder-diesel/

    It better be good to replace the current 4 cylinder diesel. Especially in a heavier GLE sized SUV. It is probably redone to meet the new Euro emissions.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    Yes, the article is light on the specifics, that grabs our interest.

    I especially like the fact that MB continues to puts its' diesels on the European market: that (in effect) tests extensively most parts of the TDI, Blue Tec, d, on European conditions/markets BEFORE it hits the US market, ...here. VW, BMW, etc., does the same. "US specific" adaptations can have its own issues.

    The 2.1 L TT @369 #ft of torque has proved to be a very remarkable diesel engine ! So if all these technical tweaks and new (more gears) transmission allows more torque & efficiency: how much better & @ what price remains to be seen.
  • jpp75jpp75 Member Posts: 1,535
    ruking1 said:

    So I would take it that you don't come close to 12 years & or 180,000 miles?

    You also don't state what that premium was/is, when you negotiated your best deal for both TDI & gasser at the time.

    I am also curious what kind of mpg you are posting ? What kind of miles per month are you posting also ?

    So for example, in the case of the MB GLK250 BT upfront MSRP is $500 less than the GLK350. (gasser)

    I don't keep a car for 12 years, maybe 180k but that's unlikely.

    TDIs aren't for sale now, but the MSRP was $4k higher, no way I could get them to match the price for the gasser model.

    Lifetime MPG per the trip computer is 19.4, I have a 15,000 mile/yr lease, so less than 1,250 per month.

    The TDI has its advantages, no doubt, but financially it doesn't make sense.
  • jpp75jpp75 Member Posts: 1,535
    gagrice said:

    jpp5862 said:

    After two months with the gasser Touareg I'd be hard pressed to pay the premium for a diesel if they were available. The CPMD is lower but it takes too long to make up for the higher purchase price and the gasser does everything I need and then some.

    I am sure the Touareg gas model is great to drive. I doubt it will accelerate going uphill from 55-75 mph with the diesel. And a very big plus for me is not having to fuel up near as often. Currently it looks like the price difference is about $6k. The TMV for a gas Touareg Lux is about $48k same as I paid for my TDI 2.5 years ago.

    Looking at Fuelly the gas Touareg gets about 16 MPG average. I am at 26.6 MPG over 28k miles. Which means my out of pocket is about $1200 per year less than if I bought the gas model. So about 5 years to make up the difference with just fuel cost. What will the selling premium be on the Touareg when I get ready to sell? It will be higher than the gas model or I won't sell it. Not having to go to a smelly gas station more than every 650 miles would be worth the premium. The Carcinogens put off by raw RUG & PUG should be avoided as much as possible.
    Any Touareg is great to drive, I've never been happier with a vehicle. It meets my needs, my CPMD is probably lower than a TDI, but I leased so the diesel advantage wasn't worth it for my usage.
  • jpp75jpp75 Member Posts: 1,535
    ruking1 said:

    So I would take it that you don't come close to 12 years & or 180,000 miles?

    You also don't state what that premium was/is, when you negotiated your best deal for both TDI & gasser at the time.

    I am also curious what kind of mpg you are posting ? What kind of miles per month are you posting also ?

    So for example, in the case of the MB GLK250 BT upfront MSRP is $500 less than the GLK350. (gasser)

    MB has always done the right thing by pricing diesel engines on par with the gassers. VW wants to charge more for the TDI.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    A lease is the most expensive way to rent a car. So the best deal, of the most expensive way is the way to go , It usually does not include TDI's.

    As good as a gas VW Touareg is, the TDI Touareg is even better!
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    This ain't no ...[non-permissible content removed]!?
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/energy-prices-steer-farmers-away-from-power-generators-1455814921

    ELECTRICITY! 1000 cows can electrify 250 homes! ? (year)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    VW is frying other fish!
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/lunar-new-year-buying-drives-china-car-sales-higher-1455859705
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,673
    2.23 MILLION vehicles in one month?! Dang... If that rate continued, that would be over 26M in a single year. Wow.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    Yeah that's pretty amazing given that US markets will be lucky to top last year's 2015 sales of 17.22 million, or so says SIRI.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think the auto buying bubble is about to burst in the USA. Cheap financing, low lease payments, given to people that could not qualify in the past will put a lot of cars on the REPO lots. Zero down means you owe more than the car is worth, until paid off. About the time you may need to spend more on repairs than the car is worth.

    Subprime Auto Loans Have Got Regulators Worried

    “Over the six months through September, more than $110 billion of auto loans have been originated to borrowers with credit scores below 660, the bottom cutoff for having a credit score generally considered good,” the report reads. “Of that sum, about $70 billion went to borrowers with credit scores below 620, scored that are considered bad.”

    http://fortune.com/2015/11/20/subprime-car-loans/
  • jpp75jpp75 Member Posts: 1,535
    gagrice said:

    I think the auto buying bubble is about to burst in the USA. Cheap financing, low lease payments, given to people that could not qualify in the past will put a lot of cars on the REPO lots. Zero down means you owe more than the car is worth, until paid off. About the time you may need to spend more on repairs than the car is worth.

    Subprime Auto Loans Have Got Regulators Worried

    “Over the six months through September, more than $110 billion of auto loans have been originated to borrowers with credit scores below 660, the bottom cutoff for having a credit score generally considered good,” the report reads. “Of that sum, about $70 billion went to borrowers with credit scores below 620, scored that are considered bad.”

    http://fortune.com/2015/11/20/subprime-car-loans/

    I agree, the pace of car sales isn't sustainable. History always repeats itself and seems that we never learn from it.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,404
    There's no real history to repeat. The sales might not be sustainable forever, but the word "subprime" isn't the same for all lending. This won't lead to economic meltdown like other subprime loans did 8 years ago.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    I highy suspect the yearly new car sales#'s & % percentages are not unlike the car salvage percentages ? On 2013 registered PVF of 269.3 M, 17.22 M , 2015 = 6.4%. For a whole host of reasons, the average age of the passenger vehicles fleet has been/is/continues to be getting older, albeit 11.5 to 12 years.+ IF structural unemployment is (really, but it is more like 42%) about 25 to 30%, how many of those people (81.5M to 136.9 M/ 362M ) really can afford to buy NEW cars?

    So for example, if we look at $ 400 per month for a new car, that might be a pipe dream ! ?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    Audi TDI's!? http://blog.caranddriver.com/new-audi-tdi-diesels-include-v-8-and-electrically-supercharged-v-6/ 500# + # ft of torque!? WOW!

    Slow Diesel News Day! 02/16/2016,

    WTI CO $29.64, ULSD $1.03,RUG $.99.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "U.S. authorities have asked the German carmaker Volkswagen to produce electric vehicles in the United States as a way of making up for its rigging of emission tests, the German newspaper Welt am Sonntag reported."

    EPA asks Volkswagen to make electric cars in U.S. (Reuters)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    "U.S. authorities have asked the German carmaker Volkswagen to produce electric vehicles in the United States as a way of making up for its rigging of emission tests, the German newspaper Welt am Sonntag reported."

    EPA asks Volkswagen to make electric cars in U.S. (Reuters)

    Sounds like a win, win. Don't bother fixing the current vehicles. Just flood the market with affordable US made EVs. Just in time to buy batteries from Elon's Reno battery factory. I think the EV solution was put forth soon after the dodo hit the fan.

    How can Volkswagen reform its reputation as a green carmaker? Maybe the events at Frankfurt last week provide clues. Winterkorn told reporters that VW plans to release 20 different EV and plug-in hybrid models by 2020. For Volkswagen, plug-ins could be a lifeline.

    http://www.plugincars.com/remedy-volkswagen’s-diesel-scandal-deliver-ev-promises-131033.html
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Had a friend who removed the clock radio and other electronics in his bedroom and scanned his walls for wiring so he could put his bed in an EMF-free zone.

    That'll be the next battlefield - maybe VW could get ahead of the curve (and lawsuits) by insulating the cabin with a Faraday cage on all their new EVs. Everything can be HID and voice activated. :D
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    stever said:

    Had a friend who removed the clock radio and other electronics in his bedroom and scanned his walls for wiring so he could put his bed in an EMF-free zone.

    That'll be the next battlefield - maybe VW could get ahead of the curve (and lawsuits) by insulating the cabin with a Faraday cage on all their new EVs. Everything can be HID and voice activated. :D

    Like I have been saying all along in the thread, I can't even make this stuff up!!! :D The whole cycle is starting again!!! EV starts off saving the world! ......THEN ...FF bas ackwarlds to the above quote! EV will be the end of the world! Does this even sound remotely familiar ?

    In a couple years, it might be popular in a portion of the population to be wearing the current equivalent of the aluminum " crunchy hats" ! Scientist will then have to get on board the bandwagon, not unlike climate change: that somehow, this prevents the zombie apocalypse, due to unseen electrical energy transfer! :D We will all look back & wish we had taken the diesel path! ;) This could be Quentin Tarantino's new movie!? B) The genre, storyline, title ? "Diesel Life's Matter ! " :p
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,669
    stever said:

    Had a friend who removed the clock radio and other electronics in his bedroom and scanned his walls for wiring so he could put his bed in an EMF-free zone

    Some folks have spent far too much time listening to Coast to Coast.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    I do much prefer that smoker's voice of Art Bell over George Noory hosting 'Coast ta Coast.' B)

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Funny, my friend is a smart guy, married well, kids turned out great, but he's a bit of a hypochondriac and germaphobe. My favorite story about him goes back to the early Internet days when he was on a health chatroom and someone back East had some mysterious illness that the doctors couldn't figure out. My friend said it sounded like Rocky Mtn. Spotted Tick fever - turns out the woman had vacationed in the Rockies a couple of months earlier and that was her problem.

    Topical? Well, he does drive a Volkswagen, albeit not a diesel. B)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    See that's his REAL problem! Driving a diesel should set him straight , :D
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    He'd definitely be one using the nitrile gloves at the pumps. Probably does for the gas anyway.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,404
    Why go to all that EMF trouble when a tinfoil hat is so much easier and cheaper? :)
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,105
    Gotta love the internet - the single source of the greatest amount of ignorance in the world...
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2016
    Lol, like burning diesel is "clean". :)

    And that brings us full circle.

    Back in Hazelwood country, some of the VW lawyers are now suing MB over their BlueTecs. (leftlanenews.com)

    Price check:


  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    See that's his REAL problem! Driving a diesel should set them straight , :D
    stever said:

    Lol, like burning diesel is "clean". :)

    And that brings us full circle.

    Back in Hazelwood country, some of the VW lawyers are now suing MB over their BlueTecs. (leftlanenews.com)

    Price check:


    Who ever asserted that "burning" diesel is clean? The real fallacy is that the assumption seems to be that "burning gasoline" is clean, while diesel is not!?

    Does that mean a 3rd customer care package? This time from MB? ! B)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,404
    Like generating electricity or making EV batteries or hybrids is "clean" ;) - more of book smart street dopey, kind of like EMF guy.

    I bet we won’t see any data from the “Mercedes owner in Illinois”, probably encouraged by DUH or some other greenie victim mentality group, if not just a lawyer seeking a settlement.

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    fintail said:

    Why go to all that EMF trouble when a tinfoil hat is so much easier and cheaper? :)

    Totally protected along with the cat.


  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    What on earth is even the slightest bit odd about this guy and his feline?

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    ruking1 said:

    Who ever asserted that "burning" diesel is clean?

    Besides VW you mean? :p

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    iluvmysephia1 said:

    What on earth is even the slightest bit odd about this guy and his feline?

    I think he is from Ohio. A FB friend from Ohio posted it. You may know him???
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    edited February 2016
    I think he is from Ohio. A FB friend from Ohio posted it. You may know him???

    No, Gary, never seen him before. I hear Seattle is really starting ta struggle with the homeless problem, though. How ya been? I worked for hours and hours and hours online on our taxes last night and finished 'em up. The Mrs. and I would've paid someone a small fortune to do those up, we're thinking.

    Hey, gagrice, a question just popped in to my head. Have you or shifty or stever seen a post from an old-time poster on here who I would chat a lot with because he dug small cars like I do, nippononly? Wow, it's literally been years since I've spotted one of his posts.

    I thought the same regarding lemko, then I spotted a post from him a week or so ago.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    stever said:

    ruking1 said:

    Who ever asserted that "burning" diesel is clean?

    Besides VW you mean? :p

    Well, no! Anybody who ever believed that about any car would be seriously deficient underneath the aluminum scrunchy hat!

    Think about it, the Eco cons promised that if the emissions standards got tighter that it would solve "the crisis". FF to now, it has failed completely + utterly! Even they say that! They said that if we did hybrids, it would clean it up emissions enormously! 10 years of hybrids & the effect is not even measurable! Now they say even if we totally stopped emitting, it will not change things for @ least 100 years!!

    You know, I can't even make up this nonsense.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Been a little over a year since we last saw @nippononly.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    Been a little over a year since we last saw @nippononly.

    Thanks for the update, stever. I remember he also liked the Scion xA and he owned a Toyota Echo.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    It sounds like he's running around in the gassers of his choice! ?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    You can click on his name and get to his Profile. He was interested in a Passat TDI (as well as some hybrids).
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    Some more oil perspectives. http://news.yahoo.com/veterans-1980s-oil-glut-price-slump-too-last-140740355.html

    While I'm loving $1.70 (GA), $1.89 to $2 sum tin, ULSD, I'd enjoy it if it was cheaper also! GO diesel, GO ULSD!

    And $500 & $500 from VW to buy it? WAY cool! And $500 & $500 to service it? COOLER! Would I be remiss if I forgot to mention the IRS tax credit in 2009? :Dhttp://www.caranddriver.com/news/2009-volkswagen-jetta-tdi-buyers-rewarded-with-1300-tax-break-car-news Or gotten a $800 to $6,000 HPFP repaired out of warranty by VW? Getting Two three-year Roadside Assist packages ( added to 1 each that came with each) might be a BAD deal. Not that I want to jinx it, but I've never needed it in over 382,000 diesel miles on any of 4 diesels.

    Anybody that has gotten this or BETTER, from another OEM (gasser) is welcomed to post!

    TMI: I am guessing that there's not a line forming ? ...
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,105
    Yep, the last price slump of this magnitude lasted about 20 years. Not saying this one will, but it could.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    texases said:

    Yep, the last price slump of this magnitude lasted about 20 years. Not saying this one will, but it could.

    Lol in 20 years I will NOT NEED to buy a new diesel. :DB) Or, some of the ones I have now might be classics? Just broken in, @ 300,000 miles each? Not saying I will not want to buy new diesels ! Or classic ones! Maybe by then, 400 # ft + of torque might be ...too little. :p

    Maybe by then Tesla will get it right and statistically (67.5% according to estimates, I've read) won't need a brand-new chassis in 60,000 miles?. B)

    TMI: or, or, or.....

    But for 15,000 miles each year @ 375 gal, 40 mpg to 417 gal ,36 mpg @ $1.89 runs $59 to $ 65 per mo. 4.72 cents to 5.2 cents cpmd: fuel.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    iluvmysephia1 said:

    I think he is from Ohio. A FB friend from Ohio posted it. You may know him???

    I thought the same regarding lemko, then I spotted a post from him a week or so ago.

    Lemko (Mike Bobby) is on FB a lot. We tag team Rocky at times. B)
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