U.S. Auto Market News and Reviews

Mr_Shiftright · January 2016

Historically, Japan overcame resistance to its "cheap"products in the 1960s, and perhaps China can do the same; however, Japan was a democracy and a U.S. ally, and China is neither. A few bloody repressions, or more coddling of North Korea, and most Americans won't touch a Chinese car IMO. On the other hand, if China plays nice, resistance might slowly....very slowly...melt away.

berri · January 2016

I think resistance to Chinese products is more about abysmal quality and product risk. Americans talk all this other stuff, but then go out and buy what is cheapest. Now if China sinks a US ship or downs a US aircraft, that may be another matter. Personally, I see China as a country that long term has bad intentions for America and uses North Korea as a troublemaking surrogate. They are not hacking our companies and government for fun and are not building militarized new islands for jobs program. So I won't be buying a Chinese made Buick, or any other vehicle made there. It's bad enough I'm almost forced to buy appliances either made there or loaded with their crappy parts.

circlew · January 2016

So I won't be buying a Chinese made Buick, or any other vehicle made there.

People will be buying cars with content from China at some point, loaded with their parts. Inevitable.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2016

"content"-----sure. That can be hidden.

Michaell · January 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:
"content"-----sure. That can be hidden.

Hasn't that already been done .. the 3.4L V6 in the original Equinox was Chinese, IIRC.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2016

Yep, and pretty well hidden, too. The window sticker mentions 15% China content but nowhere does it say that the engine was made in China by Shanghai Motors. Normally it costs GM about $900 to make a motor like the 3.4L, but we don't know how much money GM saved by building it in China, if any.

berri · January 2016

I might note that the original Equinox certainly didn't distinguish itself.

andres3 · January 2016

Michaell said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
"content"-----sure. That can be hidden.
Hasn't that already been done .. the 3.4L V6 in the original Equinox was Chinese, IIRC.

There are some out there that might consider "made in China" an improvement to made in USA by UAW or made in Mexico based on prior experiences with workmanship levels. I myself have found "made in China" to be a very mixed bag; too inconsistent for my taste.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2016

There are also some who recently spotted Elvis. But in reality, China will make anything to your spec in any quality you desire. The reason the quality is so inconsistent is that clients are demanding cost saving specifications, and that's what they get. No reason why the typical UAW worker couldn't be trained to build a Mercedes Benz.

circlew · January 2016

China is the new Japan!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2016/01/11/honda-civic-named-north-american-car-year/78620102/

Mr_Shiftright · January 2016

Not politically though. Politically it's the old Japan-- a ruling elite desirous of western technology.

stever · January 2016

Here's an odd one:

"Fiat Chrysler Automobiles ( FCAU -4.20% ) shares fell by nearly 10% in Milan on Thursday following a media report that said two dealerships had filed a lawsuit accusing it of inflating U.S. sales, adding to the legal woes hitting the sector.

Website Automotive News said the two Chicago dealerships allege FCA offered money to dealers to report unsold vehicles as sold."

Why Dealerships Are Accusing Fiat Chrysler of Lying (Fortune)

berri · January 2016

I believe there was one in Florida, but perhaps it is owned by the Napleton Chicago area one.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2016

Looks like Fortune pulled that link.

circlew · February 2016

kyfdx · February 2016

I wonder.. is that for the first 90 days?

Mr_Shiftright · February 2016

No real surprises here, although I might have predicted Subaru to beat Mini for gawd's sake. Actually I am a little surprised that Nissan and Scion didn't meet industry average--they've both dropped quite a bit. Also Ram is somewhat higher than I expected.

Mercedes slipped a good deal off 2015 ratings, as did Ford. Nissan fell WAY off as did Fiat.

berri · February 2016

I think Nissan cost cutting is catching up with them and Scion is going out of business.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2016

Well something is clearly going wrong there.

berri · February 2016

As for Ford, I think Mark Fields needs to cut back on this Jacques Nasser like focus on fun and sexy stuff, and plow more of the money into current product. Too many current issues are out there for too long like Fiesta and Escape, Synch, etc. Instead the answer seems to be just pour some more incentives on the problem vehicles. Getting away from basics really hurt the company not all that long ago. Luckily Mullaly was able to resolve course again. I'm concerned the new leadership is starting to veer of course already. Too much inconsistency among the product line and quality to my perspective at least.

stever · February 2016

kyfdx said:
I wonder.. is that for the first 90 days?

"The study, now in its 27th year, examines problems experienced during the past 12 months by original owners of 2013 model-year vehicles. Overall dependability is determined by the number of problems experienced per 100 vehicles (PP100), with a lower score reflecting higher quality. The study covers 177 specific problem symptoms grouped into eight major vehicle categories. - See more at: http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/2016-us-vehicle-dependability-study-vds#sthash.Xn21X0Sw.dpuf"

Mr_Shiftright · February 2016

So 2016 charts are for 2013 cars, and 2015 charts for 2012 cars, etc?

stever · February 2016

That's what it sounds like to me. Guess you can use the data to predict future reliability, but you're looking three years out.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2016

Well you need 2-3 years to assess it accurately.

stever · February 2016

@ruking1 posted another good blurb from the fool.com about the study. Good data points to add to CR and all the rest.

Here's Proof that General Motors Really Has Changed for the Better

Mr_Shiftright · February 2016

But Steve...if what they say is true....then....then.....omg...then the bail-out actually worked?

berri · February 2016

While Ford is falling behind, but they're spending big on tech.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2016

If all the buzz about customer dissatisfaction is correct, it's all this tech that is disappointing people--especially connectivity issues. If the tech is evolving at 2X the rate of the training programs for technicians, you got a problem.

I see where BMW is making a number of sly moves.....such as installing "geniuses" in their showrooms, who answer people's tech questions without trying to sell them anything, and b) leasing loaner cars from the factory to the dealers in order to ramp up service satisfaction.

berri · February 2016

I'll be honest, I'm not a big Mark Fields fan. I'm sure he's very smart, but under his watch as head of Ford NA it seems like Ford Quality went down. Now as CEO that doesn't seem to be improving. I think Ford has been held in higher esteem than GM for quite awhile, but I think GM has a good chance to turn that the opposite way while Fields is running the company. I think he needs to start moving some of this high tech and self driving money and shift it to fixing their ongoing product issues. You need to do the basic block and tackling before you put your focus on future tech that may or may not happen all that quickly. I think he may have some of what I perceive as Jacques Nasser's problem of wanting to do all this sexy stuff, except he's into high tech instead of European lux carmakers. I may be wrong, but it seems like Mary Barra and GM leadership gets it better.

stever · February 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:
If all the buzz about customer dissatisfaction is correct, it's all this tech that is disappointing people--especially connectivity issues..

Yeah, and lots of that stuff is operator error or disappointed expectations.

Reminds of when Hummer got dinged so badly because the mpg was so awful. Since it was so heavy, it didn't have to have EPA ratings on the Monroney, and people must have expected pickup or SUV mileage from the behemoth.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2016

Advertising raises people's expectations.

imidazol97 · February 2016

stever said:
@ruking1 posted another good blurb from the fool.com about the study. Good data points to add to CR and all the rest.

Here's Proof that General Motors Really Has Changed for the Better

Nice post from the Fool. It's nice to see what a few of us have been saying for years verified. The real shocker in this years data is Ford next to last. What was their position last year.

The others pretty much fall as I would expect based on my unbiased seat testing through the last couple of years.

henryn · February 2016

Interesting. I am disappointed to see Ford next to last. But if this is based on 2013 models, and if the primary source of complaints is about the tech features (Ford Sync), I can readily understand. I owned a 2013 Ford F150, and the Sync system sucked, totally.

The dealer support for Sync was so bad as to be unbelievable. I mean, really truly unbelievable. If you had a problem with Sync (and everyone did), then you had to bring in your vehicle on Tuesday or Thursday between the hours of 10 and 12.

On my truck, if you changed out the flash drive containing music, the Sync system would not recognize the new flash drive until you disconnected the battery cable or the fuse to do a complete reset of the system. I left the truck there for several days, and they said they could not reproduce the problem. Yeah, right. I asked if they actually changed the flash drive to see what would happen, and they said they didn’t have any flash drives to use for testing. Ignoring the fact that I had 3 different flash drives filled with music in the console, and told them so when I left the truck.

The Sync system in my new 2015 F150 is better, but I would still rather (MUCH rather) have the stereo from my old 2011 Silverado.

circlew · March 2016

Nice post from The Fool. That GM finally is getting it's act together after decades of mediocrity is truly good to see.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2016

Auto sales are continuing to go BOOM BOOM. February is on another record pace for 2016. If the economy is "bad", the auto industry didn't get the memo.

circlew · March 2016

"About 20 percent of all auto loans currently are subprime or deep subprime," says Rick Finch, vice president and general manager at LendingTree Auto Division. "Subprime loans are growing, and auto is the fastest segment."

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/02/09/subprime-auto-loans-delinquencies-keep-rising-experian-report-shows.html

Mr_Shiftright · March 2016

Well sure, obviously credit is real loose, incentives are flying, leasing is once again on the upsurge...booms are always fueled by "helicopter money" I think, one way or the other.

henryn · March 2016

thecarconnection.com/news/1102912_j-d-power-acura-mini-ace-dealer-service-survey-fiat-chrysler-brings-up-the-rear#src=10065

I would have thought that Mini belonged in the luxury segment?

Mr_Shiftright · March 2016

Only when you have to pay to fix them

uplanderguy · March 2016

Random comments on the '16 Malibu and Cruze, from a lifetime Chevy owner.

I think the base-model Malibu LS has better-looking wheels than the 1LT, which will probably be the best-selling iteration. Thumbed through a Car and Driver on the newsstand today, and they tested a Malibu 1LT against the Camry, Accord, and Mazda 6. Surprisingly to me, based on their history, they picked the Malibu over the Camry and Accord, but behind the Mazda.

I was surprised to see the new Cruze at our local dealer today--I didn't think it was out yet. They had five, ranging from a sticker of $19,995 to $25K. Built forty miles down the road from me, which I like. I don't like the Mexico-"origin" engine--in it or the Malibu.

At a squint, it's hard to tell a Cruze from a Malibu. That said, I'm liking the new front-end styling, "face" of Chevrolet.

Last weekend, I rode in a recent Hyundai Elantra with 34K miles. I was stunned at how noisy the tires were/road noise. My bottom-of-the-line Cobalt has virtually zero tire noise in comparison. In fact, both my Cobalts are quieter in that regard than my wife's '11 Malibu. I have to wonder if all the pressure about weight and MPG is making manufacturers take sound-deadening out, to save on weight. Grrrrrr.

Still on original batteries on both my Cobalts, astonishingly. 98K on mine and the car is eight years old next month. Best luck I've had with batteries, ever.

berri · March 2016

I think many cars are cutting back on sound insulation to reduce weight and improve fuel economy. Something I'm not happy about. As for Chevy and GM, I think Ford had its time in the sun under Mulally and now GM is pulling ahead. Nothing is constant in business, let alone the auto industry.

uplanderguy · March 2016

I know that outside of classic car forums, it's unpopular to say how old cars were more satisfying, but I can remember the '77 Caprice Classic brochure stating, "You'll find it hard to believe a moving automobile could be so quiet", and that was not hyperbole. Those cars were completely silent inside.

I miss that too.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2016

Well until they started to rattle....

tlong · March 2016

uplanderguy said:
Random comments on the '16 Malibu and Cruze, from a lifetime Chevy owner.

I think the base-model Malibu LS has better-looking wheels than the 1LT, which will probably be the best-selling iteration. Thumbed through a Car and Driver on the newsstand today, and they tested a Malibu 1LT against the Camry, Accord, and Mazda 6. Surprisingly to me, based on their history, they picked the Malibu over the Camry and Accord, but behind the Mazda.

I was surprised to see the new Cruze at our local dealer today--I didn't think it was out yet. They had five, ranging from a sticker of $19,995 to $25K. Built forty miles down the road from me, which I like. I don't like the Mexico-"origin" engine--in it or the Malibu.

At a squint, it's hard to tell a Cruze from a Malibu. That said, I'm liking the new front-end styling, "face" of Chevrolet.

Last weekend, I rode in a recent Hyundai Elantra with 34K miles. I was stunned at how noisy the tires were/road noise. My bottom-of-the-line Cobalt has virtually zero tire noise in comparison. In fact, both my Cobalts are quieter in that regard than my wife's '11 Malibu. I have to wonder if all the pressure about weight and MPG is making manufacturers take sound-deadening out, to save on weight. Grrrrrr.

Still on original batteries on both my Cobalts, astonishingly. 98K on mine and the car is eight years old next month. Best luck I've had with batteries, ever.

I've usually found GM small cars to be among the best in sound isolation versus other makes. Your experience confirms that. Of course a car with 30K miles could have tires that are noisy due to wear, too.

I'm sure the drive for economy doesn't help noise.

We replaced the battery in our Ody this weekend. I rarely get more than 4 years but this one went 6, which is a surprise to me. The Costco store said that the warmer temps in Cali mean that batteries usually don't last as long.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2016

I think modern cars are really pushing the limits of 12V electrical systems.

uplanderguy · March 2016

I think having the battery in the trunk, as in my Cobalts, instead of under the hood, helps the longevity. My older-daughter's PT Cruiser, built the same month as my Cobalt, has had two replacement batteries.

berri · March 2016

I'm thinking upgrading to 42V systems is not all that far down the road.

uplanderguy · March 2016

One thing I'm now not liking much about the daughter's PT, which I paid $6,930 for when it was two years old, is that it needs a timing belt replacement in about 4K miles (per the owner's manual). I have never owned a car that didn't have a timing chain. The Mopar dealer said $1,600!--for a regular maintenance item! Ridiculous! A local place said $1,175 at worst, if it needs the coolant replaced and A/C recharged, which didn't make a whole lot of sense to me but I'm not a 'wrench'. She has it four hours away at college, and I'm crossing my fingers that it'll hold until she graduates in May. I'd rather have it done up here than down there, in case something needs re-done.

berri · March 2016

If you're doing that you may as well swap out the water pump too while it is all disassembled under there.

uplanderguy · March 2016

I've heard that, too.

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