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That's not the fault of consumers - that's the fault of the service industry.
Even now, consumer advocates who don't have the stomach to take the low ball oil change pricing advertising head on and expose it for what it is today deserve more of the blame than anyone else. They have been handed the details on a silver platter but don't have the conviction to do anything with them. They have presented themselves as the consumer's guardians, where are they now? By not talking about what is wrong with that marketing approach, they as much as anoint it as being correct and in the consumers favor. It's even harder for them when the people who portray themselves as knowledgeable not only don't know themselves but continue to harp on outdated stereotypes and especially attempt to rely on silver bullet answers in an attempt to demonstrate capability and competence. Which BTW, here is where every claim that a gas cap replacement solves an evaporative emissions system failure has led this consumer.
http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/41266/chevrolet/impala/fuel-evap-nightmares#latest
Here we are in 2016 and the "experts" here haven't addressed their own mistakes from 2011-2013.
http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/do-i-have-to-use-the-manufacturers-oil.html
http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/stop-changing-your-oil.html
Meanwhile as the technology keeps advancing this thread is just a glimpse of what is waiting for everyone in the very near future. http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/41143/honda/civic/hypersensitive-crash-alerts-2016-honda-civic-long-term-road-test#latest
We shouldn't need to talk about extended service intervals today. There should not have been a second guessing of the dealer in that oil change thread because they were right. It got worse when the anecdotal advise of that questionable North American product was praised as a reasonable choice. There is no excuse for not knowing the difference between that and the requirements of that VW and not recognizing how such advise does more to confuse the consumer than it does to help them.
Seriously? And they should know what BP meds to take and how to tell that their house foundation is sinking? Sheesh.
Guess what - no one enjoys taking their car to the shop in the first place and no one trusts what the shop tells them, figuring that the "tech" behind the counter is upselling them stuff they don't need.
Oils - pretty easy choice:
Oh look, there's some Super High Mileage, that sounds good. Oooh, Extended Performance...wait, maybe the Peak or Platinum would be better. Blue Flame comes in a pretty bottle. Ah, Racing Plus should be good stuff. But I'm cheap, best get the Advanced Fuel Economy stuff.
But no, it's all about engineering, not marketing.
THIS LABEL
BTW, Ford owners? They should look for that dexos license too. The same goes for most Chrysler owners, Toyota owners, Honda and more. But you wouldn't know that by the above linked article
http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/do-i-have-to-use-the-manufacturers-oil.html which contains the following quote.
"Potential warranty problems: The language in some owner's manuals suggests that using an oil other than the one specified by the manufacturer will void the car's warranty. This is not the case, says Thom Smith, Valvoline's vice president of branded lubricant technology.
According to the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act, the onus would be on GM or another automaker to prove that a non-manufacturer oil damaged the engine. If dealers deny the warranty claim without first investigating it, they are in violation of the act, Smith says.
Consumers just need to make sure that any alternate oil they use is comparable in quality to the automaker's specified oil. Many oil manufacturers, including Valvoline, are so confident of their product that they offer their own warranty against engine damage that their products might be alleged to have caused.
Even Valvoline has gone back against their own statements in that article,
http://www.centerforqa.com/dexos-brand1/ with fourteen different products under dexos licensing.
BTW, that VW? The dexos license also is the first thing to look at and you know the product in that bottle doesn't meet the VW specs.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
As an aside, I'm streamlining my oil inventory; now that Mobil 1 0W-40 no longer has Longlife LL-01 certification I'm switching my ti and X3 over to the same BMW(Shell) 5W-30 oil that my newer 2 and 3 get. I also like that the BMW oil comes in liter rather than quart bottles.
All this means that I only have to stock 3 different oils- the previously mentioned BMW oil, Mobil 1 10W-30 for the Jeep and the Briggs & Stratton and Kawasaki motors in the ZTR mowers, and Castrol RS Racing 4T 10W-40 for the bike.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
For the longest time the only concern for most car owners was to use the recommended weight, to avoid a "bad" brand, and make a religious choice of pure petrol or synthetic. However, consider that people seldom buy a car, and oil certifications come once a decade or so. So there may be a new oil standard when one buys their car. What average lawyer, accountant, or systems analyst even thinks about this? I plead with you guys to be realistic here.
This would be a great item to add to high school. You know the place where people graduate but still cannot read, do math, balance their checkbook, or change a tire? Huh! Have we identified the real problem here?
That said, Cardoc blames consumerism. Heck, if I can pay an expensive mechanic to select my oil, why shouldn't I? That might be why someone works hard as a chef, to pay the mechanic to take care of the car. When I come home from my job I am downright beat. Every, single, day. When people today work harder and under more stress than ever before, and have 10,000 other items about their house and car that "they should know", this notion of yours really has everything going against it. If that sounds stupid so be it. It is reality.
Consumerism isn't just about what consumers do, its also about what media has coached them to do. There was (and in some cases still is) a lot of false and misleading information directed towards the consumer. If we are to take it that most really don't care then why would there be so much effort put into bad information? I took this from one of the other threads.
http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/34542/gmc/acadia/2008-gmc-acadia-problems#latest
A TV reporter is looking for a family with a car in need of repairs, but is holding off because the estimates (preferably $1,000 or more) are too high and/or they can’t afford to pay for the repairs at this time. The reporter will work with Edmunds to evaluate the estimate and help the family find ways to bring down the cost of the repairs. If you'd like to participate, please reach out to pr@edmunds.com by no later than Friday, May 29, 2015.
I could come up with hundreds of examples, but this is an aspect of consumerism that leads to hurting both the consumer and the shop/technician in the long run. These "articles" about selling stories, and getting ratings with no regard for the long term consequences.
Another friend forgot to double-check the tanks a few years ago and just assumed that the (company) plane had been gassed up. He made a perfect landing on a rural four lane right by a rest area. I missed that one.
Oh yeah, the second friend? He's an A&P mechanic....
Back in the early 80s, yet another A&P mechanic friend loaded up his pickup with some boxes he didn't want to get wet. The passenger's side view was blocked and he managed to get hit by a train. He and the boxes survived.
And you thought tailgaters with lousy brakes pulling trailers on the Interstate were bad....
This motivates parties on both sides to higher levels of excellence.
Biggest cause of flying accidents in small planes? I'd guess....running out of gas or not turning around when hitting bad weather.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Either one ends up poorly.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I think I've lost more friends to small plane crashes (two) than car wrecks (one).
Car techs hide behind the "for insurance purposes" sign.
The tank was still on the transmission jack so it was about chest height, I ducked under the tank, came up on the other side, lifted and forced him backwards about twenty feet.
He didn't get to borrow any tools.
Occasionally you'll run across one like this, where the shop wanted to sell the owner a $12,000 tank of diesel.
This was a basic failure that a qualified tech would have addressed with ease, and basically made it a non-event. But without that technician it turned into an odyssey. Imagine what a difficult issue is going to look like if they try to deal with it.
The mechanic, let's call him Ralph, is the owner. He is down to a skeleton crew of two. He even fired his own brother. The reason? No one wants to learn. They all want to do the simplest of tasks then go home. Ralph has sent employees to training. They go to the course, figure it is a vacation, and do not learn a thing. They all whine about money, they want raises, but will not do a thing to earn it. Ralph has interviewed students coming out of school and sees the identical attitude in them.
Ralph now works from early morning until 1 or 2 AM every workday. I cannot imagine turning cars around in one day like he does, and handling the entire business. He is an amazing professional.
Is it just this town? In IT I am unable to pass on my knowledge. No one wants the knowledge, no one wants the responsibility, no one wants to take over my job even though I made it clear I will be moving along sometime.
This seems like the diametric opposite of what you gents have detailed regarding the dealer environment.
In this trade its common to hear someone say, "The more you know, the less you make". There are many shop owners who don't charge for some of the work that the techs have to do correctly and so in turn they don't pay their people correctly to do that work. That effectively punishes them for trying to learn the more difficult jobs. Most pay plans reward the techs for only doing the easiest work and have little to no incentive built into them to reward taking on greater challenges. The old adage work smarter not harder is on full display because it isn't smart to take on harder work and end up making less at the end of the day.
It would be real interesting to get the opposing views from Ralphs former employee's as he just might fit the moniker of ESO. "Evil Shop Owner" from his former employee's perspectives.
I initially changed to Ralph by recommendation when the dealer wanted $3000 for a job - Hrm it is fading in my mind so I can only remember part of it: brakes including 4 caliper replacement, water pump, maybe hatch lifts. However, Ralph charged me $1600 for the same job.
I can quote the job we just had done: $340 for 2004 Mazda 3, test AC with dye, replace leaky condenser, charge and test.
A business contact (not sure how they knew this) stated that Ralph is one of the largest automotive parts buyers in the region.
For my motorcycle valve adjustment he quoted 11.5 hours. I needed the cost LOL so I asked about the rate and he quoted $90. I wouldn't know if that is his rate for cars/everything or higher for the bike??? Maybe you can figure this from the above info.
Makes me glad I don't live in a state with mandatory inspections.
How is a typical consumer supposed to deal with shenanigans like this? Most people don't have time to drive around and get second opinions, especially if their car is in for a problem, and not just an inspection.
On the other hand, living in the city, with drug users and other irresponsible people all around me, their cars missing mufflers (which pushers tend ride past the house at 2 AM), and cars with barely working brakes, etc., a mandated inspection would probably do a great deal of good here, even save lives.
victimemployee.As far as how defenseless that person who wrote that complaint is, they always have the option of a second opinion. If the other shops found nothing wrong and would have passed the car as is, not to mention he/she trusts them more then why did they go to the dealer in the first place? Too cheap to support the honest tech? If that's the case then I don't have any sympathy for them. It would serve them right if the honest shop called it a career and left them no option but the dealer.
The Truth About Flat Rate Car Repairs (autorepair.about.com)
Second opinions are great - there's nothing like nursing a barely running or marginally safe car across town to get another $100 diagnosis from another shop. Most towing claims only cover one tow to the nearest garage, so if you really are broken down, the bill adds up fast if you try to shop around.