Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

stickguy · February 2017

Michael, yeah, smooth and comfy (without being a boat) works for me. I want something that is enjoyable to drive, but don't need a borderline race car that will beat me up.

I am alternating weeks now between the Jetta and Sonata. That Jetta really does scoot. much quicker feeling than the Hyundai. Kinda fun to drive too.

I still think the prior generation (a couple years back) ES350 is probably a good car for me. I love those seats! Of the new models, the S60 really does hit my sweet spot.

Michaell · February 2017

stickguy said:
Michael, yeah, smooth and comfy (without being a boat) works for me. I want something that is enjoyable to drive, but don't need a borderline race car that will beat me up.

I am alternating weeks now between the Jetta and Sonata. That Jetta really does scoot. much quicker feeling than the Hyundai. Kinda fun to drive too.

I still think the prior generation (a couple years back) ES350 is probably a good car for me. I love those seats! Of the new models, the S60 really does hit my sweet spot.

If I'm pleased with the 150/184 in my 1.4T, I can't imagine how much fun the 1.8T would be.

Perhaps an upgrade to the Sport or SEL is in the cards.

Hope everyone had a nice Valentine's Day.

ab348 · February 2017

28firefighter said:
@graphicguy Golf R. Now selling for less than MSRP according to the guys at Jalopnik.

I'd be willing to bet we'd see another spin of the buyback wheel on any VW.

fintail · February 2017

Rare car. Not especially desirable, but unusual, and if the poor quality pics are hiding a nice car. probably not a bad deal. Getting old though, as was mentioned, body hardware will be hard to find. There was also a coupe version. Being in an area where cars age slowly, I see there every blue moon or so.

oldfarmer50 said:
Anybody know anything about these cars? I'm ignorant of Japanese cars, particularly anything this old. Was this a desirable car? I like the style. I'd have to get driver100 to take a day trip to pick it up for me.
https://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/cto/6000911053.html

driver100 · February 2017

RE: GG's looking for help deciding what car to buy.

If I had the problems GG has had I would want a car that I would enjoy driving (that is #1 priority) but a close second factor would be reliability. A warranty only means the car will be fixed during that warranty period, not how many days it may be tied up in a garage.

Toyotas and all their biproducts are safe bets, Avalon, Lexus, SUVs, Prius,
Hondas and Infinity, Maxima are high on the reliability list, as are Hyundai and Kia these days.

Buick and Chevy Cruze are high on the list, but, I don't think GG will sleep at night with one of those in his garage.

These are the 10 most reliable cars:
Toyota Prius
Lexus CT 200h
Infiniti Q70
Audi Q3
Lexus GX
Lexus GS
Mercedes-Benz GLC
Chevrolet Cruze
Audi Q7
Toyota 4Runner

I believe the Audi Q3 and Forerunner are in the price range.

These are the 10 least reliable cars with #1 being the least reliable.
WARNING: Do not trade in the CTS for an Escalade!

Cadillac Escalade (most unreliable of the bottom 10). Buy a Chevrolet Suburban or GMC Yukon XL instead, CR says, neither of which is saddled with the Cadillac CUE infotainment system. (Except look who’s No. 4 on the bottom 10 list below.)
Ford Focus.
Jeep Renegade
Chevrolet Suburban / GMC Yukon XL
Chrysler 200
Tesla Model X
Ram 2500 pickup
Chevrolet Tahoe / GMC Yukon
Ford Fiesta
Fiat 500L
And that is IMHO

stickguy · February 2017

Driver speaks a truism. A warranty only relieves the burden of paying to fix the car. Not the pain and hassle of having it break down on a regular basis and having to take it in to the dealer.

GG has a warranty on his CTS. No question about getting honored, so it is not going to cost him monetarily. Just emotionally!

oldfarmer50 · February 2017

uplanderguy said:
Some have said that while the driving experience during the Daimler/Chrysler era in cars like the 300 were positive, quality actually slipped according to some Mopar diehards (I guess there are some).

Daughter's PT Cruiser has "Daimler" markings under the hood.

Perhaps that's why the car dealers in my area keep telling me it's a high demand car.

graphicguy · February 2017

WOW....all good suggestions, everyone. Thanks! Some I hadn't even thought of (which was the purpose I asked). And, quite frankly, everyone here is probably the most knowledgeable group of car nuts I've ever come across. So, your opinions mean a lot to me.

Went for some test drives to wittle down the list last night. None of them were over 5 miles, as I just wanted to get a feel for them, and come back later to the ones I liked.

Since I was impressed with the Volvos at the car show, and the dealership is really close to me, I went to the Volvo store to look at what they had that fit my parameters. Ended up being an S60 sport model. It had all the good stuff....lane change, lane keep, radar cruise (is it just a matter of time before these features become standard on all cars in the name of safety?), nice stereo, upgraded wheels and tires, some suspension tweaking, leather, etc.

First think I noticed were the sport seats. Volvo knows how to do seats, and these were some of the best I've ever sat in....very nice leather, too. Mentioned many times before, I love these 4 cyl turbo motors that are available now. This one is no exception. Good torque, just the teeniest turbo lag, but had to be paying attention to notice. The one downfall, it sounded like the motor in my lawn tractor. Still, pretty darned quick. Steering was neutral and communicative. Brakes were a bit touchy, but very effective. Well put together but more hard plastic than I'm used to.

MSRP was $43K....over my target. But, with incentives (and they had a lot of them), the price I was quoted was $39K, and that's before my research and making another offer.

Not bad....didn't float my boat as much as I'd hoped. It's in the hunt, but on the outside.

Next up......

graphicguy · February 2017

The Accord Touring V6. Had test drove one a few weeks ago. My opinion hasn't changed. For the money, I don't think you can find a better car. It doesn't lead the pack in any of the major areas I like (except value), but does just about everything well.

It's surprisingly (and deceptively) quick. The motor is such a gem. It sounds great when pushed. And, it's got the power to move the car along swiftly. The transmission "only" has 6 gears, but it's smooth and I wasn't able to catch it doing akward things. Brakes are easy to modulate and have good pedal feel. Steering is direct and weighted well. I tried to coax some torque steer out of it, but couldn't. The suspension is better than what I have in the CTS, and that's saying something, because the CTS is quite good. Ride/handling is great.

Seats are not as good as the Volvo, but not bad. Nice leather, comfy. All the controls are within reach and feel high quality in use.

The dual screens deserve all the criticism they get. But, I understand what Honda is trying to do. The Nav is based off of GARMIN, which is a great thing. Apple Car Play is there, which is huge to me.

Also mentioned before, I don't know that you can get a car more loaded up than the Accord Touring. Leather, heated seats, lane keep, lane assist (it even has a camera that shows the left side blind spot when changing lanes), radar cruise, LED headlights, taillights, fog lamps and driving lights. These cars come "lit up".

MSRP was ~$35K. Sales Manager went into "deal mode", said he'd sell at invoice (not sure what that is, yet). But, I'm guessing there's trunk money and I'd think it's a $31K-$32K car plus tax/title/license.

Styling? Not sure. I think I like it. That's not a resounding endorsement, though.

Pretty strong contender......

sda · February 2017

The styling on the Accord is conservative and familiar, not especially eye catching. I do think it will age gracefully unlike some styling efforts such as the Nissan Juke.

suydam · February 2017

Don't the top trim levels of most cars now come with all that stuff? Both the Mazda 3 and the Volt I shopped do.

graphicguy · February 2017

Toyota dealership is right next store from Honda. So, hadn't been there is quite some time (since I had my much beloved 4 Runner in for service over a decade ago).

My friend's Avalon made me quite curious. They had about 8 of them, 3 of them were hybrids. I know I should consider hybrids, but I'm not willing to give up performance for better MPG. So, stuck to the V6.

I had mentioned, there's really not a whole lot that I can tell seperating these from the Lexus aside from the badge. Avalon feels bigger than the ES but smaller than the LS....somewhere in between. There's stitched leather everywhere. Seats aren't made for spritied driving, but are quite comfy.

Again, not quite sure there were any options you could get that the car didn't have. Had all the goodies, lane change, lane keep, some sort of accident prevention, radar cruise, JBL stereo which was better than I expected.

Steering is light but accurate. The car came with different "sport, standard, snow, etc" choices you can make. Putting it in sport changes the steering feel (much better) and shift points. No torque steer that I could ascertain. Brakes were strong and easy to modulate. Suspension was surprising to me. I thought it would be floaty. But, it stayed well planted. Not as firm as the Accord, but pretty good.

Ddin't get real aggressive with it, but took some corners faster than I should have. Very little body lean and aside from a little tire squeal, no drama. It stayed relatively flat. Given it was a FWD car, that's pretty amazing. There's been a lot of improvement in FWD, or I've been away too long.

LEDs were everywhere....inside and out. It was quicker than I expected, too. Transmission was ready to kick into another gear when I wanted it to, and did so quickly. When cruising, I didn't even know it was shifting.

Build quality and materials are outstanding, just as in the Accord. But, the Avalon could go toe-to-toe with cars costing $10K-$20K, maybe $25K more.

MSRP was $44K. After the test drive, sales manager did the obligatory meet and greet. No pressure, just wanted to know how I liked the car. I wasn't real fond of the one I test drove in a pale gold, but he had one that did strike my eye.....black over black with black wheels (Toyota wheels, not aftermarket). He showed me that one, and it's a looker.

I had mentioned to him that my friend bought an Avalon from the dealership for $7K off. Manager said he could do $6K off MSRP. I told him I was just looking, but he asked me to sit in his office for a moment, and he pulled up the incentives, the MSRP, the invoice, etc on the screen. There were $2,700 in incentives, and about another $3K between MSRP and Invoice (didn't write the numbers down, so I think that's what I saw). He said he remembers my friend's deal (insunuated he was a grinder) and that he'd match it if I bought by the end of Feb. Again, no pressure. We were just going over numbers.

That would put the car in my target range.....$37K.

Again, I was quite surprised how nice the Avalon was and how well it drove. It's a Lexus in every measuable way I could find, except for the badge, and sportier drive than I was anticipating.

Another strong contender!

Productive evening narrowing the cars down that fit my parameter. Accord and Avalon running neck and neck. Volvo, nice care, but running 3rd at this point.

I think it was @stickguy who mentioned the Acura TLX, and someone mentioned the A3/4. Will probably look at them tonight.

@driver100...thanks for the suggestions. I'll probably stay away from SUVs in general. My days of needing the hauling/towing of those are long gone. And, the vast majority of the time, I'm the only one in the vehicle, so don't need 3 rows of seats. As such, ESCALADE, SUBURBAN, TAHOE, et al aren't on my radar.

graphicguy · February 2017

stickguy said:
Driver speaks a truism. A warranty only relieves the burden of paying to fix the car. Not the pain and hassle of having it break down on a regular basis and having to take it in to the dealer.

GG has a warranty on his CTS. No question about getting honored, so it is not going to cost him monetarily. Just emotionally!

Good point. I can't tell you the amount of hours I've spent going back and forth to the dealership, filling out paperwork for the dealer's service dept, the BBB, Cadillac Customer Service, etc.

So, it's not been productive owning the car, either.

graphicguy · February 2017

Michaell....I looked at the Maxima at the car show. Pretty nice car. Last Nissan I drove with that CVT was an Altima. Didn't really like it. Maybe they've made it better. I'll put it on the list. Thx!

stickguy · February 2017

Accord has same drivetrain that is in my RDX. Does have a nice growl, and plenty of scoot. I have also never found myself wishing for more gears. As a bonus, in the accord, I bet you can pull easy low-mid 30s on the highway. I can hit 30 with the much less efficient Acura AWD box.

Does sound like a screaming good deal.

I actually like dual screen idea. Can have navi on one, without losing the rest of displays. Better than the maybe 4" tiny screen the RDX has. Though no nav to worry about on that! Spoiled by the big screen in my Sonota.

Michaell · February 2017

graphicguy said:
Michaell....I looked at the Maxima at the car show. Pretty nice car. Last Nissan I drove with that CVT was an Altima. Didn't really like it. Maybe they've made it better. I'll put it on the list. Thx!

Can't speak for Nissan, but the CVT in our Outback is programmed to "feel" like a traditional automatic.

houdini1 · February 2017

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe said:
OK, it's over Son #1 won't be going to the slammer. Being this was Son #1 you guys should have guessed that it had something to do with cars, though. Actually @driver100 wasn't too far off when he said something like "waxing cars".

Here it goes or should I say here it went:

Since the Spring is not too far off my Son was thinking of buying one of those do it yourself car washes. There is one not too far from him for sale, but he was going to put a twist on that. He was thinking about, weather permitting, he'd hire some ladies to wash the car for you, at an option price of course, clad in as skimpy as the law allowed, bikini/tong bathing suits.

After he got to thinking more about it he could see that this very seasonable endeavor would not work. Maybe if he lived where Mike lives he'd still be considering it but not anymore. For all I know they might already exist around Mike's place.

Now, since the car wash is out, he is thinking about flipping houses and he even has one in mind but he has to do more homework before he decides on that.

I'm shaking my head about that too but not to the point it hurts. If nothing else his mother no longer has to be scraped off the ceiling.

Sorry @oldfarmer50, no pictures unless you want to see updated kitchens/bathrooms and maybe some saw dust and 2X4's as the work proceeds.

Just thought you guys would want to know.

jmonroe
Why not buy the car wash sans the girls? I use to work at one in college and the owner built it into a multi-location business. When you say do it yourself is this the kind where you actually work the hose or is just an automatic thing where you put money in the machine and drive it through? There are some new brushless washes near me where you don't have to deal with any people just drive in and the machines circle around your car. Seems like something a person could own with very little labor expense.

On house flipping be careful of where you do it. I've read that the real sucessful flips are done only where real estate values are rapidly rising. So Florida or Texas might be good but old rust belt cities not so much. Was talking to a couple who tried flipping in my area and are still paying off the loses.

As for the pictures, you could have at least slipped into a thong and posted a few selfies after leading us on like that.

My son and I flipped a few houses a few years ago and made a nice profit on all of them. They were all in a desirable neighborhood, we (he) did 90 % of the work, and it was in a time when all a prospective buyer needed to get a home loan was to have a pulse.

graphicguy · February 2017

Michaell said:

graphicguy said:
Michaell....I looked at the Maxima at the car show. Pretty nice car. Last Nissan I drove with that CVT was an Altima. Didn't really like it. Maybe they've made it better. I'll put it on the list. Thx!
Can't speak for Nissan, but the CVT in our Outback is programmed to "feel" like a traditional automatic.

I know people who have Subarus swear by them. I understand the allure. But, for whatever reason, they don't move the meter for me.

suydam · February 2017

Just to refinance a mortgage -- clearly we are already paying it -- took 3 months and MOUNTAINS of paperwork this summer. If it prevents another '08 meltdown I'm all for it, but it did seem like overkill.

driver100 · February 2017

oldfarmer50 said:

uplanderguy said:
Some have said that while the driving experience during the Daimler/Chrysler era in cars like the 300 were positive, quality actually slipped according to some Mopar diehards (I guess there are some).

Daughter's PT Cruiser has "Daimler" markings under the hood.

Perhaps that's why the car dealers in my area keep telling me it's a high demand car.

OF, you always wanted a Mercedes.

Actually, I can't find anything that says Daimler contributed to the PT Cruiser. Evolved from the Neon, and was a Chrysler idea from what I have looked up.

graphicguy · February 2017

suydam said:
Just to refinance a mortgage -- clearly we are already paying it -- took 3 months and MOUNTAINS of paperwork this summer. If it prevents another '08 meltdown I'm all for it, but it did seem like overkill.

My youngest sister just did a refi and used Rocket Mortgage. She said the rates were competitive and as easy as it could possibly be. Not sure how long it took her to complete the prodess, but mentioned they did most of the work online, even getting her financials.

driver100 · February 2017

Good road test reviews GG. The Volvo sounds pretty nice, but, I don't think you will ever regret getting the Honda. Personally, I like the styling....not striking like a CTS, but certainly not ugly.

Just read your review of the Avalon too, and that sounds like a contender too. Same, nice car....great reliability!

Probably a good solid reliable car that performs well and that you can enjoy and still be able to get on with your life...and not have to think about when it is going to breakdown. Might be a nice break for you.

28firefighter · February 2017

suydam said:
Just to refinance a mortgage -- clearly we are already paying it -- took 3 months and MOUNTAINS of paperwork this summer. If it prevents another '08 meltdown I'm all for it, but it did seem like overkill.

We refinanced last May from 4.5% to 3.5% - it took 30 days to close, but the amount of time I spent within those 30 days on it was astounding.

suydam · February 2017

The Honda is a great car. You will see yourself everywhere. Kind of boring exterior but it has great visibility. I love my '13 but eventually I wanted something smaller. The Avalon is more attractive to my eyes and there aren't as many of them on the road as their Camry cousins. I'm not a fan of the current Maxima style but some people love it. My '01 Maxima was the nicest car I've owned, but it had the V6, not the CVT. I don't care for the Altima CVT but the Maxima's may be different. Will be interesting to hear your impressions.

Michaell · February 2017

We're thinking of doing a refi. Switch from a 30 year term to 20, to help get the balance paid down on the house. Then, if we decide to move to warmer climes, we'll have more equity and, assuming the cost of living is cheaper where we move to, we'll have a small mortgage to deal with.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2017

oldfarmer50 said:
Anybody know anything about these cars? I'm ignorant of Japanese cars, particularly anything this old. Was this a desirable car? I like the style. I'd have to get driver100 to take a day trip to pick it up for me.

https://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/cto/6000911053.html

AND the seller has a bad attitude AND the VIN is wrong.

andres3 · February 2017

Michaell said:

stickguy said:
I am sensing though for this car, GG is likely more interested in something more "mature". Closer to the Caddy than a rally car! He does have the Cobra for fun time duty.

I would like to drive a WRX, but not sure I want to marry one.

Actually, I am kind of curious what would have happened if I had signed up for the Civic Si lease Wonder if I would still love it?
Given the price point ($30-40K) and the fact that @graphicguy has the SVT for fun duty, I figure something 1) reliable, and 2) luxurious.

I might also suggest the Kia Cadenza or Hyundai Azera, but only if he leases. The depreciation on those will kill you, but the lease cash almost makes up for it.

@nyccarguy - FYI, you can get 7500 miles per year on the 7-series only.

Honda offers 12K only; so does Toyota. Lexus offers 7500 miles, so the ES would work.

@stickguy - I'm getting to a point where comfort trumps sportiness. Though I am still impressed at the torque the Jetta puts out. I got on the highway today and was at 80 before I knew it.

Doesn't the torque of the Outback 3.6 spoil you? Of course, you were driving the Elantra more often, so perhaps that is why the Jetta feels like a rocket in comparison to that.

I do know my wife liked how the generally noisy CVT transmission was quieter in the 3.6 than the 2.5 Subaru puts out. She commented about how the car was very quiet as the engine and transmission don't have to work hard to get moving. You can keep the RPM's down if that suits your driving style.

andres3 · February 2017

ab348 said:

28firefighter said:
@graphicguy Golf R. Now selling for less than MSRP according to the guys at Jalopnik.
I'd be willing to bet we'd see another spin of the buyback wheel on any VW.

I don't think VW's have catastrophic problems (most of the time). The problems you'll run into more often than not are nit picky quality control issues; an area where VW could improve, but they are not churning out lemons. There is no way they'd lead the world in sales if they were making lemons.

Also, the Golf R is made in Germany which deserves extra bonus points IMO. The Passat V6 has been around for a long time (not sure what transmission it uses though).

Still, if I was looking for a more supreme reliability experience I'd stick to Lexus/Audi/Toyota, and maybe Honda.

I like the idea of a Legacy 3.6.

@nyccarguy isn't the sway bar you got for your Legacy 2.5 from the 3.6 model?

graphicguy · February 2017

driver100 said:
Good road test reviews GG. The Volvo sounds pretty nice, but, I don't think you will ever regret getting the Honda. Personally, I like the styling....not striking like a CTS, but certainly not ugly.

Just read your review of the Avalon too, and that sounds like a contender too. Same, nice car....great reliability!

Probably a good solid reliable car that performs well and that you can enjoy and still be able to get on with your life...and not have to think about when it is going to breakdown. Might be a nice break for you.

@driver100....you summed it up well for me. As Michaell also points out, for weekend fun, I've got the Cobra 'vert!

I'm looking for a "no drama" ownership experience, now. Plus, I'm getting a chance to see what's really on the market...and how they drive.

I was thinking last night while test driving, there really isn't a significant difference in something like an Avalon vs a Lexus, or the Accord vs the Acura TLX (although there, the Acura has the wonderful SH AWD offering).

There isn't a whole lot of difference between the driving dynamics of the $38K-$39K Volvo S60 and the nearly $60K CTS.k. Truth told, the steering dynamics of the Accord and the Avalon really favor those cars vs the CTS. CTS does have that wonderful 4 cyl turbo and a very nice suspension, though.

Driver....it sounds like you're really enjoying your time with your C Class. It's simpler than the E you had, but sounds like it's just as enjoyable.

Given the CTS' foibles and woes, I am looking for some reliable transport. Again, I'm amazed at the kind of car you can get in the $30K-$40K price range. You really don't give up anything.

BTW...taking the CT6 loaner back tonight per the dealership's request. May have to rent a car for a bit.

nyccarguy · February 2017

I don't think it's from the 3.6, but it is from the Outback. It really makes a difference. THe car feels much more stable and planted at highway speeds and when changing lanes.

coldinohio · February 2017

GG: re Audi A3 v A4

IIRC, your audi was a 4 (?S); the transmission on the 4 and above models are mechanical Quattro (with longitudinal engines); the 3 and under are electrical Quattro (with transverse engines); that may have been your binding issue

if you do Audi, would drive similar 3 and 4 back to back to see if you notice transmission issue...

of course, Audi may have changed,... but this is from ~2014 era per my service advisor.....

andres3 · February 2017

nyccarguy said:
I don't think it's from the 3.6, but it is from the Outback. It really makes a difference. THe car feels much more stable and planted at highway speeds and when changing lanes.

I remember liking my sway bar upgrade in the '06 A3. I did both the front and back with BIG Hotchkis bars. A lot of people just do one end but I didn't want to turn the understeer prone car into an oversteer monster.

The car was already stable and planted in stock form at highway speeds and when changing lanes. With the upgrade, it was super stable and planted at super-legal speeds in the USA, or perhaps Autobahn speeds.

nyccarguy · February 2017

I had SUSPENSION TECHNIQUES upgraded front and rear sway bars installed on my Prelude. They transformed the handling of an already exceptional car.

andres3 · February 2017

graphicguy said:

driver100 said:
Good road test reviews GG. The Volvo sounds pretty nice, but, I don't think you will ever regret getting the Honda. Personally, I like the styling....not striking like a CTS, but certainly not ugly.

Just read your review of the Avalon too, and that sounds like a contender too. Same, nice car....great reliability!

Probably a good solid reliable car that performs well and that you can enjoy and still be able to get on with your life...and not have to think about when it is going to breakdown. Might be a nice break for you.
@driver100....you summed it up well for me. As Michaell also points out, for weekend fun, I've got the Cobra 'vert!

I'm looking for a "no drama" ownership experience, now. Plus, I'm getting a chance to see what's really on the market...and how they drive.

I was thinking last night while test driving, there really isn't a significant difference in something like an Avalon vs a Lexus, or the Accord vs the Acura TLX (although there, the Acura has the wonderful SH AWD offering).

There isn't a whole lot of difference between the driving dynamics of the $38K-$39K Volvo S60 and the nearly $60K CTS.k. Truth told, the steering dynamics of the Accord and the Avalon really favor those cars vs the CTS. CTS does have that wonderful 4 cyl turbo and a very nice suspension, though.

Driver....it sounds like you're really enjoying your time with your C Class. It's simpler than the E you had, but sounds like it's just as enjoyable.

Given the CTS' foibles and woes, I am looking for some reliable transport. Again, I'm amazed at the kind of car you can get in the $30K-$40K price range. You really don't give up anything.

BTW...taking the CT6 loaner back tonight per the dealership's request. May have to rent a car for a bit.

I'm really pleased to hear that it seems based on your reviews, Honda and Toyota are upping their game, and are not afraid to step on some of the toes of Lexus and Acura.

A decade ago when I compared those two companies and their luxury divisions, there was a big divide. I think around 2003 Honda and Toyota peaked, and instead of improving Lexus and Acura to keep the value margin up, they "told" their lesser divisions to not compete with the upper brands so closely.

andres3 · February 2017

suydam said:
The Honda is a great car. You will see yourself everywhere. Kind of boring exterior but it has great visibility. I love my '13 but eventually I wanted something smaller. The Avalon is more attractive to my eyes and there aren't as many of them on the road as their Camry cousins. I'm not a fan of the current Maxima style but some people love it. My '01 Maxima was the nicest car I've owned, but it had the V6, not the CVT. I don't care for the Altima CVT but the Maxima's may be different. Will be interesting to hear your impressions.

I see Accord's everywhere, but I will say the V6 Accord is just about as rare as anything these days in my parts of the world.

stickguy · February 2017

The 4 is so good, that few people are likely willing to pay the $ premium.

V6 going away for 2018 redesign. Going to get the nice 1.5l turbo instead.

graphicguy · February 2017

coldinohio....yes, the S4. I think you're absolutely right on the mechanical Quatro. I'm hoping the "new" 4s are different. S4's are going to be out of my self imposed price range. A/S 3 may not be, though. Will take a look.

Andres3...I gotta say, there isn't a whole lot of difference, at least none that are readily apparent, between the Avalon and Lexus (not sure which one it would compete with, given it splits the difference between the LS and the ES), as well as the Accord vs TL(X). Driving the TLX again tonight. But, being familiar with both the recent Accord and TLX, I don't know that I could make a case in spending more money for the TLX....and I'm a real Acura fan. We'll see.

driver100 · February 2017

GG: Driver....it sounds like you're really enjoying your time with your C Class. It's simpler than the E you had, but sounds like it's just as enjoyable

I like the E and I like the C....for different reasons mainly. I do like the extra room in the E, I like the extra weight on the highway, I like some of the extra features. I feel safer in the E, not too many people consider that but after being hit I am more aware. I know backseat passengers appreciate the comfort and the ease of getting in and out.

I like the sporty feel of the C. I love a 4 cylinder with a powerful turbo. I'd probably like a 6 cyl even more, but I have no complaints. I really don't miss not having my E, the C250 is more fun to drive...more nimble. I think the red color adds to the fun element.

I think, if you enjoy the car, don't find it lacking in any quality that is important to you, has the things on it you really need, you will be happy with your choice.

I often think the Passat was a good little car, but I could never be completely happy, because of the lack of power and not great driving dynamics. Those things are just too important to me. Don't settle because of a few $1000s, it will cost more in the long run because you will be looking for something you like better.

I could imagine keeping the C250 for a very long time if it holds up, and we can get an extended warranty too. I like the look more than the new ones, so I will be happy to keep this one for the long haul.

berri · February 2017

If reliability consistency across models is a top driver, you probably need to be in the Toyota and Lexus arena.

Michaell · February 2017

andres3 said:

Michaell said:

stickguy said:
I am sensing though for this car, GG is likely more interested in something more "mature". Closer to the Caddy than a rally car! He does have the Cobra for fun time duty.

I would like to drive a WRX, but not sure I want to marry one.

Actually, I am kind of curious what would have happened if I had signed up for the Civic Si lease Wonder if I would still love it?
Given the price point ($30-40K) and the fact that @graphicguy has the SVT for fun duty, I figure something 1) reliable, and 2) luxurious.

I might also suggest the Kia Cadenza or Hyundai Azera, but only if he leases. The depreciation on those will kill you, but the lease cash almost makes up for it.

@nyccarguy - FYI, you can get 7500 miles per year on the 7-series only.

Honda offers 12K only; so does Toyota. Lexus offers 7500 miles, so the ES would work.

@stickguy - I'm getting to a point where comfort trumps sportiness. Though I am still impressed at the torque the Jetta puts out. I got on the highway today and was at 80 before I knew it.
Doesn't the torque of the Outback 3.6 spoil you? Of course, you were driving the Elantra more often, so perhaps that is why the Jetta feels like a rocket in comparison to that.

I do know my wife liked how the generally noisy CVT transmission was quieter in the 3.6 than the 2.5 Subaru puts out. She commented about how the car was very quiet as the engine and transmission don't have to work hard to get moving. You can keep the RPM's down if that suits your driving style.

@andres3 - yes, both the wife and I like the torque in the 3.6 Outback.

The Elantra and the Jetta have roughly the same HP (148 v. 150), but the torque definitely favors the Jetta. Being the dark grey, it's almost like a mini Q-ship as I maneuver around traffic around town.

sda · February 2017

Michaell said:

andres3 said:

Michaell said:

stickguy said:
I am sensing though for this car, GG is likely more interested in something more "mature". Closer to the Caddy than a rally car! He does have the Cobra for fun time duty.

I would like to drive a WRX, but not sure I want to marry one.

Actually, I am kind of curious what would have happened if I had signed up for the Civic Si lease Wonder if I would still love it?
Given the price point ($30-40K) and the fact that @graphicguy has the SVT for fun duty, I figure something 1) reliable, and 2) luxurious.

I might also suggest the Kia Cadenza or Hyundai Azera, but only if he leases. The depreciation on those will kill you, but the lease cash almost makes up for it.

@nyccarguy - FYI, you can get 7500 miles per year on the 7-series only.

Honda offers 12K only; so does Toyota. Lexus offers 7500 miles, so the ES would work.

@stickguy - I'm getting to a point where comfort trumps sportiness. Though I am still impressed at the torque the Jetta puts out. I got on the highway today and was at 80 before I knew it.
Doesn't the torque of the Outback 3.6 spoil you? Of course, you were driving the Elantra more often, so perhaps that is why the Jetta feels like a rocket in comparison to that.

I do know my wife liked how the generally noisy CVT transmission was quieter in the 3.6 than the 2.5 Subaru puts out. She commented about how the car was very quiet as the engine and transmission don't have to work hard to get moving. You can keep the RPM's down if that suits your driving style.
@andres3 - yes, both the wife and I like the torque in the 3.6 Outback.

The Elantra and the Jetta have roughly the same HP (148 v. 150), but the torque definitely favors the Jetta. Being the dark grey, it's almost like a mini Q-ship as I maneuver around traffic around town.

From what I've read in the Jetta there is little performance difference between the 1.4 and 1.8, .5 sec roughly. The ready torque provided by a turbo really makes a car feel alive and ready with a seemingly almost endless supply of power. I enjoyed that aspect from the '06 Passat 2.0t that I had.

nyccarguy · February 2017

stickguy said:

The 4 is so good, that few people are likely willing to pay the $ premium. V6 going away for 2018 redesign. Going to get the nice 1.5l turbo instead.

There's no replacement for displacement

nyccarguy · February 2017

@sda - before we leased our '07 X3, we had our minds made up on a Passat Wagon with that sweet 2.0T.

sda · February 2017

I like the TLX. The interior quality and subtle touches are better than the Accord and I understand that the TLX is quieter. Since they both share the same platform I found it interesting that the interior of the TLX feels smaller, especially in the back. Keeping price parity I don't know which one I would choose, an Accord Touring or the TLX 4cyl Tech. The V6 in the Accord might tip the scales for me. If Acura has refined the 9 speed in the TLX, then the V6 would be my ideal choice.

stickguy · February 2017

Well, forced induction is a replacement. Works for F1!

nyccarguy · February 2017

@graphicguy - I'd be curious to hear your impressions of the 4cyl & 6cyl AWD TLX. Although I think a 4cyl TLX Advance would probably be priced very close to an Accord Touring. In which case your right foot will vote for the Accord.

stickguy · February 2017

The TLX V6 AWD my son test drove was a really nice car. Did seem tidier sized vs. an accord

28firefighter · February 2017

@graphicguy Do you need 4 doors?

roadburner · February 2017

Cars I drove yesterday:
330e M Sport package: It had most every option. Surprisingly quick and relatively fun to drive.
M3 Competition Package: Fun but pretty hard core. I could live with it.
440i Gan Coupe M Sport: This puppy had the M Performance Power and Sound kit; pretty quick and sounded glorious.
Z4: Last one we have; strangely uninvolving; I'd rather have a 320i Sport with THP.

28firefighter · February 2017

That 440 sounds awesome.

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