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Maybe you never noticed but they would be wrong in the publics eye's if they recommended something like the cables (I can show you numerous posts to back that up) and they also got to be wrong if the didn't (and I can show you numerous posts to back that up too).
Often I ask for evidence. "You need brakes" OK, what are the measurements? "Your ball joints are worn" OK, what did the dial indicator say?
On some age-related items (timing belt, serpentine, spark plugs, cables etc), I check on what the manufacturer says.
I appreciate a conscientious technician pointing things out to me. What I don't like are obvious upsells, as if I were stupid.
If the Lexus vehicles were not all covered in plastic underneath, I would also swear that the Japanese do not know the meaning of "salt" or "snow." But apparently they know, they just charge to the bone for that protection.
I have learned that this is all a Total Cost of Ownership game, and to stop trying to directly compare the reliability of different brands. The Hondas and Toyotas cost more up front. The Chevys and Fords are heavily discounted up front, but will take repairs in year 3. The TCO for each owner may not differ much at all. So I guess pick the one that impresses the girls the most and do not worry about the rest.
From there ask the groups if they felt the shop was being dishonest if they went against their opinion and be ready to collect data from which you wouldn't be able to make an informed decision. VBG...
I've never had a cheaper car to run than a 10-year old high mileage Honda. Part of that is almost no depreciation.
When I had the Q7 down in Anchorage this past May, the dealer told me that the brake pads needed immediate replacement, and asked if I wanted to replace them. I asked how much.... $1,200 (all four). So, I inquired as to why they thought that it was immediate if the electronic warning gizmos had not blipped on yet, and he said that was a last resort. Okay (agreed on that), but how much pad is left when that flashes? What percent of total pad? He said 5-10%, but couldn't remember... he could ask the tech.
Overall, I wasn't worried, as 5-10% would last another 1,000 miles or more, so I had time. As such, I thanked him for the notification and declined the service. I did appreciate the notification, though I can also see how other people might have jumped on that in fear due to their own ignorance.
I ended up replacing them all on the 7/4 weekend with my other maintenance activities. All told, about $130 (IIRC) for the pads and about 45 minutes of time. The real challenge was that these pads have electronic sensors rather than squealers, and the new pads didn't come with sensors included. As these are not intended to be reusable, I ended up having to install the old ones, which were torn up after separating from the old pads, so I just wired them up to complete the connection (normal closed loop on these = good to the computer) and left them zipped to the steering knuckles.
Afterward, I bought a set of replacement sensors, which I will install in the next couple weeks when I have the wheels off for seasonal change out.
Lastly, brake sensors don't seem to work all that great if you abuse the pad and they wear unevenly. However, in Audi, I believe they are supposed to trigger the idiot light at 2 mm, but as I said, not the most accurate sensor ever made.
Also, these pads are pretty soft. I'm not sure if those were the originals, but I usually get over 100,000 miles out of mine, and I have never noticed the buildup of brake dust on my wheels (on any car). Not true for the Q7. Dust builds up quickly on this one! It is probably part heavy vehicle and part soft pads, but the car does stop very well for its size (at least, that's what my butt tells me).
I ended up buying a Bosch OE replacement (semi-metallic), and the pads for the rear did come with new sensors installed. It was only the fronts (ironically, exact same model of pads) that did not have them. I imagine there must be a sensor difference in years or something where it is beneficial to the manufacturer to not include them. Not a huge deal now that I know. I think the sensors were maybe $15-20 extra for the pair.
Cars are like guitars. The "in" ones maintain their value, which is really trucks. The rest are hit or miss. Year 10 is when the problems start. If you Buy a new Honda and sell it in year 10, after having done absolutely nothing to it, it may be the cheapest car to own. If you keep it as the planned obsolescence kicks in from year 10-20, your entire TCO advantage will go out the window. Of course if you replace it with a new one, you will be adding in the premium that you pay for a Honda into the TCO.
You could have gotten a much better TCO by purchasing certain domestic car used and fixing them up.
TCO = a game with no clearly defined winner.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
But there's no telling. A 12 year old BWM for some folks could be hell on earth, too. The trick is to buy them new, or near new, take really great care of them, and if misfortune strikes anyway, to know when to bail out.
Many folks aren't as pragmatic as you are. They just want a new car, TCO be damned.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-mechanics-strike-settled-20170917-story.html
This should send repercussions through the whole country.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
Another common issue would be for a dealer to overstaff so that there are more than enough people on hand to take care of the busiest times but that means that techs often end up standing around with nothing to do during the slow times. When it's slow and the tech isn't assigned to a repair, they don't get paid for that time. For the dealers it was a win/win when they have the staff to really put out a lot of work when it is busy, but it wasn't costing them anything if nothing showed up on a given day. Now they will have to pay the techs when they fail to keep them busy.
There is a lot more to this, but this is the start. Other dealer's will have to pony up and match this or lose their techs which is why this goes beyond the union.
Remember, tow trucks and down time are expensive too. Some people value their own time highly, and dealing with constant breakdown on a less reliable car adds to the "time" expense of ownership, even if the parts and labor are somehow cheap (which it almost never is). Tow trucks are expensive too.
But the only reason something like this is even working right now is, this industry as a whole, heavy equipment and automotive mechanics, is because our industry is becoming a dying breed. There is not an influx of techs, as fast as us old techs are retiring.
We have had tech positions open that have taken 6 months to fill. It wasn't mostly a money issue, as it was getting qualified applicants.
One position was more or less filled with an apprentice, because he was good.
As time moves forward and technology increases, the demand for qualified techs will increase. In today's market, if I were to not have a job at the end of the day, I'd be at work somewhere else tomorrow morning.
Ditto, that is one thing we do have, we could get a job anywhere in a heartbeat but what good is a job when what today's techs really need is a career?
The pay scale for heavy is considerably more than automotive. Again, this is where automotive and HD differ.
And pay scales for HD can be more for an apprentice who has an associate in diesel technology.
As for trade schools, I don't put a lot credence in them.
They need to spend more time on the basics, teaching techs how everything works, so they will better understand why it isn't working. Most trade schools lack that. No question about it. The learning NEVER stops. And technology moving as fast as it is, you have to keep up or get left behind.
I tell young techs that if you are good at what you do, you can go anywhere and make good wages.
It is the techs who think they deserve a good wage, because how long they've been doing it, without proving themselves, that I don't think they will make it. In the last 30 years, I've worked at 2 places.
The first one, I was 23 and with in a couple years, handled the heavy truck repairs and a few years after that, became lead, then went to heavy equipment and by the time I was 30, was lead.
Second job, I handle 150+ pieces of equipment and vehicles as a field tech.
20+ years on this one and I still am happy with it.
I've worked marine (fishing vessels), automotive (sorry, but hated flat rate) and heavy.
I prefer heavy, but still have light fleet I'm responsible for, so I have to keep up.
The young guys coming into the industry first need to learn the basics, then they need to learn humility.
Once they have learned both, they can be great at what they do.
I tell people, if I knew everything, I wouldn't be a mechanic and the day I know everything, I better retire, because I will be too arrogant to work with anyone.
Wow, that was long winded. LOL!
My son's best friend works as a heavy duty mechanic for a striping company. Pretty decent wages, but long hours (I think he's on call if something happens to one of the trucks).
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
But automotive techs make about 15% less than heavy equipment techs and heavy equipment field techs make about 5% more than that.
I am salary, but get overtime.
As far as what can be made as a heavy equipment tech, let's just say $70k/year would be average without OT.
Unfortunately, automotive gets left behind in the wage wars. There is a mentality that automotive techs are monkeys, who just turn wrenches, which really needs to change. People do not realize that today's vehicles are so far advanced technologically.
IT guys make,more money, yet there are way more systems and programming in today's cars, yet people still don't see a mechanic as a computer specialist,
I see this, because diagnostics and electrical are kind of my specialties. I trained folks on diagnostics, electronics and computer systems.
Heavy trucks and heavy equipment if today have as much computer systems as cars. In some cases way more.
Imagine if you had small computers controlling every separate area of your house and all of them needed to talk to each other and every day, you are walking on the wiring, the dog is chewing on the wiring and the elements are trying to destroy the wiring.
That is today's vehicles.
Tire rotation for the family truckster at a shop might be ten bucks. A four tire change for NASCAR costs thousands of dollars.
Tire rotation for the family truckster at a shop might be ten bucks. A four tire change for NASCAR costs thousands of dollars.
Fair enough, so you mean those guys don't get paid by the hour at the pit stop
in CA you are lucky to find a tire rotation for $20, usually higher.
Do most technicians hate being watched while working by the client? I know many shops have signs in the garage that say "customers not allowed for insurance reasons."
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Quote: "A well timed interruption can cause the dumbest and often most catastrophic mistakes".
When I am working I move very quickly and change directions just as fast. Anyone trying to watch will usually find themselves standing in my way over and over again. It's almost comical at times because if they stand still, I'll motor right around them, but if they move the odds of them continuing to block my path are quite high. People often forget that techs are usually paid by the job, not by the hour. So beating the clock even if it is only by a few minutes per hour is second only to being "perfect" with the execution of the repair. Trying to watch, especially up close does a real good job of interfering with both of those goals.
I hurt my shoulder a bit ago lifting Detroit heads up onto the engine block.
The heads weigh about 180 lbs.
The first lift to the top of the front tire went fine. I ran into trouble lifting from the front tire to the engine.
Standing on the drag link and front axle, I got kind of crossed up and pulled something.
Old age, you know. LOL!
One nice thing about most heavy stuff is you usually have ample room to work.
Some things may be a little tight sometimes, but nothing like automotive.
Electrical is on area that I am disappointed in a lot of tech schools. They blow through basic electrical, when it should be one of the main concentrations of the courses. I have spent the last almost 20 years trying to build the perception of mechanics.
I have dealt with mechanics across the country and all over the world.
And unfortunatley, there is the same mentality is world wide.
And then you have those jerks who "are mechanics" and post blogs and e-books on how your mechanic is ripping you off. I'd really like to have a "discussion' with one of those people.
They couldn't cut it as a real mechanic, so they cheat people by selling e-books and youtube videos, based on the 1% bad shop owners (NOT TECHS) who give the entire industry a bad name.
Over the course of those 20 years, I've seen literally hundreds of techs who donate their spare time to helping people. We have graders now that are completely controlled by joystick.
It used to be that most signal wiring was 5V and you had a half a chance of deterimining signal.
Now these new systems, are all ohms and data. You have to have a laptop and the proper info or you get nowhere. Just about every system on the piece of equipment is controlled by one thing.
Kind of daunting to think of operating it, let alone repairing it. LOL! Most of my light fleet work is determining the problem and figuring out the time it will take for the repair.
Since most of my priority is heavy trucks and equipment, if I figure the repair is more than 4 hours, I farm it out to a shop/dealer.
Even with fleet, it is all about time management.
Sorry about being so long winded folks.
The education for technicians has to increase, the standard of living has to increase and the know nothings who think they know it all need to be shown how little they really know and they need to get the heck out of the way so that we have more time to deal with the things that are really important. We started calling them ESO's back in the 2000's (evil shop owners) who were all about their own profits and reaching the goal of being an absentee owner. Those same owners who drove so many prospects from the automotive trade instead of investing in them and helping them grow now constantly cry that they can't find qualified technicians and they are largely at fault for the trades current status. As have I even while they personally struggled and sacrificed while managing to learn to "live within their means". While everyone around them prospered I saw techs working months on end without a single day off, no overtime pay, often working a second job (side work at home?) and seeing that all devoured by personal tool and training expenses. The classes that I present are designed to take professional technicians who previously haven't been trained to work on stuff like progress to be the technician that the consumer needs the shops to have. The latest and greatest tool is worthless without skilled hands to use it. This is so appropriate right here.....
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44272/the-road-not-taken I'm not. It's a small sacrifice by a few to serve everyone else.
http://www.autonews.com/article/20170920/RETAIL/170929972/1147
Part of the union's core fight was for guaranteed pay for a 40-hour workweek. The dealership committee sought to keep the mechanics' current 34-hour workweek by offering a 5 percent annual pay increase over three years with additional incentives.
Mechanics tend to work more than 40 hours per week but receive pay based mainly on incentives. As warranties lengthen and vehicles require less maintenance, a mechanic's incentive-based pay plan becomes tricky. The warranty work that continues to come through the service drive pays far less than customer-pay rates.
After rejecting each other's initial offerings, the groups settled on guaranteed pay for a 35-hour workweek for three years and pay for a 36-hour workweek in the fourth and final year of the contract.
That is a step in the right direction but didn't go far enough to fix one of the biggest problems. When a car is brought in by a consumer under warranty the techs lose significant earning potential for that period of time. The flat rate world is all about "reward and punishment" where the techs are rewarded for gaining experience and for motivating themselves to do accurate expeditious work. Then there is the punishment side where if they take too long to do a given diagnostic and repair they are punished financially since they put in more hours than they get paid for. The warranty time techs are paid by is nothing short of fraudulent. The guaranteed hours serves to free them from some of that abuse essentially making them straight time employee's but still loses sight of the fact that their base hourly wage is a number that expects them to turn 50-60 hours a week to make their promised gross income. Straight time has the clock running backwards towards that 50-to 60 hour goal but at least it is better than nothing.
The second point of major contention was a more flexible work schedule. Dealerships are often open six days a week in Chicago, and mechanics are on a "flex" schedule in which no mechanic can take off two days in a row. Their days off are usually Sunday, when the dealership is closed, and another day in the middle of the week.
"You can't get things done on the homefront," Cicinelli said. "You forgo family functions and a lot of other things. It's taking its toll on a lot of people that work that flex schedule."
Imagine yourself in a position where you are going to be expected to have to perpetually sacrifice your family life for your job. Which should be more important? What is more important to you?
The new contract allows senior-status journeymen to become exempt from the flex schedule, taking two consecutive days off.
Now the question becomes, will the entry level techs stay in the career long enough to get this benefit?
Career growth Another point the union wouldn't bend on was the apprenticeship program, which stretched from eight to 10 years long. But both the union and dealership committee agreed that length was "onerous," Bilek said.
The apprenticeship program was reduced to five years. After that, apprentices will be assessed and, if qualified, can be promoted to journeyman status.
Being a journeyman is one thing, there is no end to the learning required to master the trade. (It might not be practical to even try anymore since that demands so much study)
The union also won entry-level wage increases. A lube technician's starting wages increased to $11 an hour from $9 per hour, and a semiskilled technician's hourly wages increased to $13 from $11. Both lube technicians and semiskilled technicians are considered junior classifications of mechanics.
They can make that at McDonalds......
Making the profession more attractive and professional growth more attainable were important sticking points for the union. Cicinelli said the entry-level wage increase is important when considering a young automotive mechanic, freshly graduated and paying off tuition with a $30,000 to $50,000 investment in tools. The $11 starting wage doesn't sound so attractive at that point, he said.
Neither does $13/hr. Don't expect the increasing shortage of qualified technicians to slow down.
Other career path contract gains include a statute that allows semiskilled technicians to be reviewed by management after 24 months and then put on an apprentice track. That way, an employee knows after 24 months -- and not 10 years -- if he or she will have an opportunity to climb the career ladder, Cicinelli said. "We made gains but not the gains, in our opinion, to make the career path completely attractive," Cicinelli said. "But we're headed in the right direction."
Well they can still claim that someone CAN make $100K as a technician and there are some who do. I'll just point out that someone can win the lottery or make it as a professional athlete or musician too. But should someone risk their life and career on such promises?
I once had a guy who owned a Transmission shop tell me that for his first twenty years in the business he had to
learn very little but now he has to constantly study and buy new equipment just to compete.
He just retired and our town lost a great and honest shop!
He did and he is enjoying it.
Looks like hearing aids are in my future.
If any young techs are reading this, USE HEARING PROTECTION!!
If you don't, it will catch up to you.
Even using hearing protection quite often, it was not often enough.