Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

ab348 · February 2018

Mr_Shiftright said:

carnaught said:
BTW, my Apple (iPad) glitch on these Forums is gone.
I did that

Were you the one who broke it in the first place too?

suydam · February 2018

Mr_Shiftright said:

carnaught said:
BTW, my Apple (iPad) glitch on these Forums is gone.
I did that

Thanks for the fix!

driver100 · February 2018

ab348 said:

dino001 said:

It's even more funny - same people will fight dealer's unreasonable (in their opinion) profit and then not even blink at groceries, an electronic device, piece of software, furniture, or jewelry sold at markups that dealers could only dream of. Argument being that those are much smaller prices, so dollars lost are not big, to which I say how many of those one buys cumulatively vs. the car.
Here's one for you.

That light bulb is the size of a small old-style vacuum tube, about 2" long. It is used as one of the two countertop lights on the underside of my Frigidaire over-the-range microwave. Last night one of mine blew. In looking up the type of bulb I discovered that it is not a common size or type and you could forget about finding it at places like Home Depot around here. But appliance parts houses have it. So today I went to the biggest one nearby. They had it in stock - with taxes, $22 CDN out the door. The one I got was in a GE Appliances package but was identical, I would guess a lot of those microwaves come out of the same factory with different brand names on them.

So what would you expect the markup was on a Made-in-China $22 light bulb?

Give me the details...I'd like to see how much they charge on amazon.com. We got vacuum bags....$40 at Home Depot, online at Amazon for $10.....gets 4.5 stars, work as good as name brand.

ab348 · February 2018

The Frigidaire p/n is 5304408949.

Michaell · February 2018

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:
@driver100 - since we're talking about acronyms, let's make sure we understand MSRP:

Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price

Suggested - not mandated.

If the car isn't popular you can buy it for a discount. If the car is popular, then the dealer can ask for, and often get, above the sticker price.
Good point. But, MSRP should give you a fair idea of what value the car should be worth. If GM priced an Impala at the same price as a Cadillac we wouldn't think the price was reasonable. The MSRP isn't just a made up number, it should accurately reflect what the manufacturer "expects" to be paid for the car. The important word being "EXPECTS", and in the case of the Mustang the manufacturer values the car at $99k. The dealer thinks he can force someone to pay him $21k extra.....it is his call, nothing illegal or immoral, just not the way I like to do business.

I do think there is some leeway though.........a $5k or $10k premium may be in bounds for a $100k car, but $21k is excessive.......and just IMO.

My own business model would say, if you have an item that is in demand, you are entitled to make extra profit on it.......but, don't get greedy. Customers come back to you if you treat them well.
That new hopped up Civic has an ADM of $10,000 on a $34k car. Pretty steep.

The dealers who are doing that will be living with those cars for a good long time. Our own @breld picked up one of them last year, and paid sticker price (plus the cost of some factory and dealer accessories).

stickguy · February 2018

I suspect that some of it is basically just marketing. They get lookie loos in, hoping to sell them a GT. And it is a nice conversation piece for the showroom. if they really want to sell it, they could.

Plus, where OF is, you would have to truck it home because you can't take that car out on the roads up there this time of the year!

Michaell · February 2018

driver100 said:
One other thing I remembered. When I bought my 2008 BMW 328 hardtop convertible I ordered it in August for November. The dealer was allotted 2 a month, 2 in October were sold and one in November was sold. I got the last one allotted for November, but, the dealer wouldn't give me a discount saying they would sell it for full price anyway. Fair enough, I to this day question whether that was true, but, it has the sound of truth behind it. But, I don't think I would have paid more than list price for the car.........I would check elsewhere first. It would be too upsetting to be taken advantage of..............and I haven't bought another car from that dealer.

We always tell folks shopping for BMW's to target 7% off sticker, before applying any available incentives.

But, Canada is a different market, so those guidelines may not apply.

I will suggest that an ordered car isn't going to be discounted as much by the dealer. Why? Because of that "floorplan" loan that the dealer took out to buy the car to begin with. If the dealer knows it's going to be sold within a day or two of arriving, that loan will be paid back that much quicker.

tbirdmarco · February 2018

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nMgxL_Qo6r0

oldfarmer50 · February 2018

Michaell said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:
@driver100 - since we're talking about acronyms, let's make sure we understand MSRP:

Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price

Suggested - not mandated.

If the car isn't popular you can buy it for a discount. If the car is popular, then the dealer can ask for, and often get, above the sticker price.
Good point. But, MSRP should give you a fair idea of what value the car should be worth. If GM priced an Impala at the same price as a Cadillac we wouldn't think the price was reasonable. The MSRP isn't just a made up number, it should accurately reflect what the manufacturer "expects" to be paid for the car. The important word being "EXPECTS", and in the case of the Mustang the manufacturer values the car at $99k. The dealer thinks he can force someone to pay him $21k extra.....it is his call, nothing illegal or immoral, just not the way I like to do business.

I do think there is some leeway though.........a $5k or $10k premium may be in bounds for a $100k car, but $21k is excessive.......and just IMO.

My own business model would say, if you have an item that is in demand, you are entitled to make extra profit on it.......but, don't get greedy. Customers come back to you if you treat them well.
That new hopped up Civic has an ADM of $10,000 on a $34k car. Pretty steep.
The dealers who are doing that will be living with those cars for a good long time. Our own @breld picked up one of them last year, and paid sticker price (plus the cost of some factory and dealer accessories).

He paid an extra $10,000 for mop & glo ?

oldfarmer50 · February 2018

Michaell said:

driver100 said:
One other thing I remembered. When I bought my 2008 BMW 328 hardtop convertible I ordered it in August for November. The dealer was allotted 2 a month, 2 in October were sold and one in November was sold. I got the last one allotted for November, but, the dealer wouldn't give me a discount saying they would sell it for full price anyway. Fair enough, I to this day question whether that was true, but, it has the sound of truth behind it. But, I don't think I would have paid more than list price for the car.........I would check elsewhere first. It would be too upsetting to be taken advantage of..............and I haven't bought another car from that dealer.
We always tell folks shopping for BMW's to target 7% off sticker, before applying any available incentives.

But, Canada is a different market, so those guidelines may not apply.

I will suggest that an ordered car isn't going to be discounted as much by the dealer. Why? Because of that "floorplan" loan that the dealer took out to buy the car to begin with. If the dealer knows it's going to be sold within a day or two of arriving, that loan will be paid back that much quicker.

That's something I never understood. Why a higher price when the loan is paid right off? Doesn't that save the dealer some interest payments?

Or am I misunderstanding the floor plan system?

driver100 · February 2018

ab348 said:
The Frigidaire p/n is 5304408949.

Looks like you did OK....$20 on Amazon.
Frigidaire 5304408949 Light Bulb Microwave
by Frigidaire
$20.41 $ 20 41 Prime
Only 7 left in stock - order soon.
More Buying Choices
$17.47(9 new offers)

Incandecent model:
5304408949 Frigidaire Microwave Lamp`incandescent
by Frigidaire
$33.99

At least these days you can find these items fairly easily, and they can be ordered and sent to your home. Imagine trying to find one before internet shopping? It seems to be expensive for what it is but I guess it costs a lot to make and stock these rare items...and you won't have to replace it for about another 25 years.

driver100 · February 2018

oldfarmer50 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:
One other thing I remembered. When I bought my 2008 BMW 328 hardtop convertible I ordered it in August for November. The dealer was allotted 2 a month, 2 in October were sold and one in November was sold. I got the last one allotted for November, but, the dealer wouldn't give me a discount saying they would sell it for full price anyway. Fair enough, I to this day question whether that was true, but, it has the sound of truth behind it. But, I don't think I would have paid more than list price for the car.........I would check elsewhere first. It would be too upsetting to be taken advantage of..............and I haven't bought another car from that dealer.
We always tell folks shopping for BMW's to target 7% off sticker, before applying any available incentives.

But, Canada is a different market, so those guidelines may not apply.

I will suggest that an ordered car isn't going to be discounted as much by the dealer. Why? Because of that "floorplan" loan that the dealer took out to buy the car to begin with. If the dealer knows it's going to be sold within a day or two of arriving, that loan will be paid back that much quicker.
That's something I never understood. Why a higher price when the loan is paid right off? Doesn't that save the dealer some interest payments?

Or am I misunderstanding the floor plan system?

That's a great question. I often see sale price but it only applies to cars in stock. I get the feeling the dealer is losing money every day the car sits on the lot, there comes a point when it is better to try and sell it off, make a smaller profit before it becomes a loss. But, when you order in a car......they know you want it and are willing to pay to get it your way, and those cars they make their full profit on. They have to make money where they can.

abacomike · February 2018

oldfarmer50 said:

One other thing I remembered. When I bought my 2008 BMW 328 hardtop convertible I ordered it in August for November. The dealer was allotted 2 a month, 2 in October were sold and one in November was sold. I got the last one allotted for November, but, the dealer wouldn't give me a discount saying they would sell it for full price anyway. Fair enough, I to this day question whether that was true, but, it has the sound of truth behind it. But, I don't think I would have paid more than list price for the car.........I would check elsewhere first. It would be too upsetting to be taken advantage of..............and I haven't bought another car from that dealer.
We always tell folks shopping for BMW's to target 7% off sticker, before applying any available incentives. But, Canada is a different market, so those guidelines may not apply. I will suggest that an ordered car isn't going to be discounted as much by the dealer. Why? Because of that "floorplan" loan that the dealer took out to buy the car to begin with. If the dealer knows it's going to be sold within a day or two of arriving, that loan will be paid back that much quicker.
That's something I never understood. Why a higher price when the loan is paid right off? Doesn't that save the dealer some interest payments? Or am I misunderstanding the floor plan system?

A Floor Plan is the financing of a new car dealer’s inventory. It is usually financed through a fairly large financial institution such as Wells Fargo, Chase, etc. Sometimes, a vehicle manufacturer finances a dealer’s inventory, especially large volume dealerships. The dealer pays interest on the loan but does not usually pay the bank any principal. The interest rate is variable and tied to market funds.

Ordered vehicles generally are not discounted as much as vehicles in stock because of delayed final sales - 3-8 weeks. Selling a car in stock does not necessarily mean it will be discounted because the dealer pays off the loan - which is not how it works. When an in-stock vehicle is sold, it is quickly replaced by an incoming vehicle that becomes part of the floor plan financing.

Thus, better discounting has to do more about moving a vehicle now rather than dealer-trading for a vehicle or waiting for an ordered vehicle to arrive.

driver100 · February 2018

Michaell said:

driver100 said:
One other thing I remembered. When I bought my 2008 BMW 328 hardtop convertible I ordered it in August for November. The dealer was allotted 2 a month, 2 in October were sold and one in November was sold. I got the last one allotted for November, but, the dealer wouldn't give me a discount saying they would sell it for full price anyway. Fair enough, I to this day question whether that was true, but, it has the sound of truth behind it. But, I don't think I would have paid more than list price for the car.........I would check elsewhere first. It would be too upsetting to be taken advantage of..............and I haven't bought another car from that dealer.
We always tell folks shopping for BMW's to target 7% off sticker, before applying any available incentives.

But, Canada is a different market, so those guidelines may not apply.

I will suggest that an ordered car isn't going to be discounted as much by the dealer. Why? Because of that "floorplan" loan that the dealer took out to buy the car to begin with. If the dealer knows it's going to be sold within a day or two of arriving, that loan will be paid back that much quicker.

It would be almost impossible to get 7% off on a BMW here....unless they really had to get rid of it. 4% off is about maximum. I considered picking up my 2012 in Germany. If you do that in the US, you arrange the best deal possible, and then they allow you something like 5% to fly to Germany and pick up the car. In Canada they don't do that.....that turned me off doing it. I also didn't do it because I would be using up about 6 weeks of warranty while my car sat on a ship. And, what do I drive until my car arrives?

Going back to MSRP. Although that is a moving number I think it is a very important real number. My guess is what the dealer pays for a car is based on that very important number. The dealer must get the car for a discounted price, based on MSRP. You can't just make up a wholesale and a retail price.....they are a best possible guess at what the manufacturer thinks the car is worth. It isn't made up in thin air.

When the K Cars first came out I was an idealistic young man and I thought it would be a good car to buy. When I looked at them they were priced very high for what you got. But, there was an oil shortage and Chrysler thought people would pay a lot for them. When sales weren't too good at first Chrysler lowered the price quickly.
That is when sales took off.

My point is, MSRP is a real number that dealers and customers have to work with...and ADM's are pie in the sky numbers.

abacomike · February 2018

Was at Apple yesterday. They replaced the battery in my iPhone 7+ at no charge because I have the 2-year Apple Care warranty. The reason for changing the battery had to do with more frequent charging requirements - sometimes 2x a day.

I have found that taking out their Apple Care program for extended warranty is smarter if you plan to keep a phone for 2+ years. I have always had one or more problems with iPhones during the second year of ownership. I buy a new iPhone every two years. Apple gives better buy back pricing and gives the discount immediately.

Phone is holding it’s charge longer with the new battery.

abacomike · February 2018

driver100 said:

One other thing I remembered. When I bought my 2008 BMW 328 hardtop convertible I ordered it in August for November. The dealer was allotted 2 a month, 2 in October were sold and one in November was sold. I got the last one allotted for November, but, the dealer wouldn't give me a discount saying they would sell it for full price anyway. Fair enough, I to this day question whether that was true, but, it has the sound of truth behind it. But, I don't think I would have paid more than list price for the car.........I would check elsewhere first. It would be too upsetting to be taken advantage of..............and I haven't bought another car from that dealer.
We always tell folks shopping for BMW's to target 7% off sticker, before applying any available incentives. But, Canada is a different market, so those guidelines may not apply. I will suggest that an ordered car isn't going to be discounted as much by the dealer. Why? Because of that "floorplan" loan that the dealer took out to buy the car to begin with. If the dealer knows it's going to be sold within a day or two of arriving, that loan will be paid back that much quicker.
It would be almost impossible to get 7% off on a BMW here....unless they really had to get rid of it. 4% off is about maximum. I considered picking up my 2012 in Germany. If you do that in the US, you arrange the best deal possible, and then they allow you something like 5% to fly to Germany and pick up the car. In Canada they don't do that.....that turned me off doing it. I also didn't do it because I would be using up about 6 weeks of warranty while my car sat on a ship. And, what do I drive until my car arrives? Going back to MSRP. Although that is a moving number I think it is a very important real number. My guess is what the dealer pays for a car is based on that very important number. The dealer must get the car for a discounted price, based on MSRP. You can't just make up a wholesale and a retail price.....they are a best possible guess at what the manufacturer thinks the car is worth. It isn't made up in thin air. When the K Cars first came out I was an idealistic young man and I thought it would be a good car to buy. When I looked at them they were priced very high for what you got. But, there was an oil shortage and Chrysler thought people would pay a lot for them. When sales weren't too good at first Chrysler lowered the price quickly. That is when sales took off. My point is, MSRP is a real number that dealers and customers have to work with...and ADM's are pie in the sky numbers.

MSRP is determined by the manufacturer and is based on the average cost of building the car (materials, labor, operating costs of the plant, handling, etc.) and a specific profit margin for the manufacturer and the dealer.

The dealer pays MSRP less about 7% to 12% (depending on the determined profit margin by the manufacturer). When the vehicle is sold, the dealer receives a holdback (2% to 4% of the wholesale price of the vehicle) plus any trunk or incentive money from the factory.

It is rare for a dealer to give up any hold back money, but I know it happens - when a customer pays less than dealer cost, some of the 2%-4% holdback is used to make up the difference.

imidazol97 · February 2018

Check the base of the bulb you took out. It looks like it's a 17 mm from the repairclinic grid...

The bulb I bought would be a fit. The color would be cool white rather than incandescent yellow. And about 10% of the energy use.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/paoAAOSwovFZ4TMg/s-l1600.jpg

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-LED-Bulb-for-Kenmore-Microwave-790-80342310-Surface-Light-Cool-White-40W-E17/322825676280?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&var=511955969744&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

oldfarmer50 · February 2018

abacomike said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:
One other thing I remembered. When I bought my 2008 BMW 328 hardtop convertible I ordered it in August for November. The dealer was allotted 2 a month, 2 in October were sold and one in November was sold. I got the last one allotted for November, but, the dealer wouldn't give me a discount saying they would sell it for full price anyway. Fair enough, I to this day question whether that was true, but, it has the sound of truth behind it. But, I don't think I would have paid more than list price for the car.........I would check elsewhere first. It would be too upsetting to be taken advantage of..............and I haven't bought another car from that dealer.
We always tell folks shopping for BMW's to target 7% off sticker, before applying any available incentives.

But, Canada is a different market, so those guidelines may not apply.

I will suggest that an ordered car isn't going to be discounted as much by the dealer. Why? Because of that "floorplan" loan that the dealer took out to buy the car to begin with. If the dealer knows it's going to be sold within a day or two of arriving, that loan will be paid back that much quicker.
That's something I never understood. Why a higher price when the loan is paid right off? Doesn't that save the dealer some interest payments?

Or am I misunderstanding the floor plan system?

A Floor Plan is the financing of a new car dealer’s inventory. It is usually financed through a fairly large financial institution such as Wells Fargo, Chase, etc. Sometimes, a vehicle manufacturer finances a dealer’s inventory, especially large volume dealerships. The dealer pays interest on the loan but does not usually pay the bank any principal. The interest rate is variable and tied to market funds.

Ordered vehicles generally are not discounted as much as vehicles in stock because of delayed final sales - 3-8 weeks. Selling a car in stock does not necessarily mean it will be discounted because the dealer pays off the loan - which is not how it works. When an in-stock vehicle is sold, it is quickly replaced by an incoming vehicle that becomes part of the floor plan financing.

Thus, better discounting has to do more about moving a vehicle now rather than dealer-trading for a vehicle or waiting for an ordered vehicle to arrive.

So basically there is less interest payment on an in stock unit vs. an ordered unit?

graphicguy · February 2018

Forums are operating better, now! ThX!

abacomike · February 2018

oldfarmer50 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

One other thing I remembered. When I bought my 2008 BMW 328 hardtop convertible I ordered it in August for November. The dealer was allotted 2 a month, 2 in October were sold and one in November was sold. I got the last one allotted for November, but, the dealer wouldn't give me a discount saying they would sell it for full price anyway. Fair enough, I to this day question whether that was true, but, it has the sound of truth behind it. But, I don't think I would have paid more than list price for the car.........I would check elsewhere first. It would be too upsetting to be taken advantage of..............and I haven't bought another car from that dealer.
We always tell folks shopping for BMW's to target 7% off sticker, before applying any available incentives. But, Canada is a different market, so those guidelines may not apply. I will suggest that an ordered car isn't going to be discounted as much by the dealer. Why? Because of that "floorplan" loan that the dealer took out to buy the car to begin with. If the dealer knows it's going to be sold within a day or two of arriving, that loan will be paid back that much quicker.
That's something I never understood. Why a higher price when the loan is paid right off? Doesn't that save the dealer some interest payments? Or am I misunderstanding the floor plan system?

A Floor Plan is the financing of a new car dealer’s inventory. It is usually financed through a fairly large financial institution such as Wells Fargo, Chase, etc. Sometimes, a vehicle manufacturer finances a dealer’s inventory, especially large volume dealerships. The dealer pays interest on the loan but does not usually pay the bank any principal. The interest rate is variable and tied to market funds.

Ordered vehicles generally are not discounted as much as vehicles in stock because of delayed final sales - 3-8 weeks. Selling a car in stock does not necessarily mean it will be discounted because the dealer pays off the loan - which is not how it works. When an in-stock vehicle is sold, it is quickly replaced by an incoming vehicle that becomes part of the floor plan financing.

Thus, better discounting has to do more about moving a vehicle now rather than dealer-trading for a vehicle or waiting for an ordered vehicle to arrive.
So basically there is less interest payment on an in stock unit vs. an ordered unit?

Of course - if it is not in stock, interest is not being paid on the ordered vehicle. HOWEVER, remember an ordered vehicle is not a sold vehicle. “A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush!” The reason for discounting the in stock vehicle more than an ordered vehicle has more to do with selling a car NOW rather than later. The ordered vehicle may not get sold.

The floor plan is a constantly changing collateralized standing loan. A dealership wants to sell in stock vehicles for floor plan reasons, but it also has to do with NOW sales rather than LATER sales.

dino001 · February 2018

abakomike said:
Ordered vehicles generally are not discounted as much as vehicles in stock because of delayed final sales - 3-8 weeks. Selling a car in stock does not necessarily mean it will be discounted because the dealer pays off the loan - which is not how it works. When an in-stock vehicle is sold, it is quickly replaced by an incoming vehicle that becomes part of the floor plan financing.

Thus, better discounting has to do more about moving a vehicle now rather than dealer-trading for a vehicle or waiting for an ordered vehicle to arrive.

So this is they key for understanding the mentality of dealers, when it comes to orders. Even though ordered cars will not cost the dealer in the floorplan, he has a bigger incentive to push those he has on the floorplan, so he can stop paying interest and get another one. Pay me less now or pay me more later. It’s not about the particular unit’s cost (which is actually lower for an ordered car), but a total cost o bearing inventory. The ordered car in their mind pays interest on the one customer did not take from the lot. Even though it sounds backwards, it is rational in current instant gratification system, where vast majority want the car now, not in 6 weeks.

graphicguy · February 2018

Forums are operating better, now! ThX!

graphicguy · February 2018

The only dealership that encouraged me to factory order to get EXACTLY what I wanted was BMW.

Actually, one of the Honda dealers encouraged me to order an ‘18 Accord Sport (as I told him that’s what I might be interested in before I bought the Acura.

Dont’ try that with Acura, Mercedes, or Infiniti. Not sure about Lexus.

To me it would seem to be advantageous for a dealer to order for a customer. Matter of fact, I would think a dealership would be more willing to keep much less stock on hand (for demo purposes only) and order most customer requests. Much less floor plan costs.

But, I guess that’s getting too close to the Tesla way of doing business.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2018

Tesla isn't a franchised business, so that might have something to do with it as well. All Tesla outlets are factory stores, but the other automakers run very few factory stores. Usually factory stores sit on very expensive rear estate.

oldfarmer50 · February 2018

abacomike said:

oldfarmer50 said:

abacomike said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:
One other thing I remembered. When I bought my 2008 BMW 328 hardtop convertible I ordered it in August for November. The dealer was allotted 2 a month, 2 in October were sold and one in November was sold. I got the last one allotted for November, but, the dealer wouldn't give me a discount saying they would sell it for full price anyway. Fair enough, I to this day question whether that was true, but, it has the sound of truth behind it. But, I don't think I would have paid more than list price for the car.........I would check elsewhere first. It would be too upsetting to be taken advantage of..............and I haven't bought another car from that dealer.
We always tell folks shopping for BMW's to target 7% off sticker, before applying any available incentives.

But, Canada is a different market, so those guidelines may not apply.

I will suggest that an ordered car isn't going to be discounted as much by the dealer. Why? Because of that "floorplan" loan that the dealer took out to buy the car to begin with. If the dealer knows it's going to be sold within a day or two of arriving, that loan will be paid back that much quicker.
That's something I never understood. Why a higher price when the loan is paid right off? Doesn't that save the dealer some interest payments?

Or am I misunderstanding the floor plan system?

A Floor Plan is the financing of a new car dealer’s inventory. It is usually financed through a fairly large financial institution such as Wells Fargo, Chase, etc. Sometimes, a vehicle manufacturer finances a dealer’s inventory, especially large volume dealerships. The dealer pays interest on the loan but does not usually pay the bank any principal. The interest rate is variable and tied to market funds.

Ordered vehicles generally are not discounted as much as vehicles in stock because of delayed final sales - 3-8 weeks. Selling a car in stock does not necessarily mean it will be discounted because the dealer pays off the loan - which is not how it works. When an in-stock vehicle is sold, it is quickly replaced by an incoming vehicle that becomes part of the floor plan financing.

Thus, better discounting has to do more about moving a vehicle now rather than dealer-trading for a vehicle or waiting for an ordered vehicle to arrive.
So basically there is less interest payment on an in stock unit vs. an ordered unit?

Of course - if it is not in stock, interest is not being paid on the ordered vehicle. HOWEVER, remember an ordered vehicle is not a sold vehicle. “A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush!” The reason for discounting the in stock vehicle more than an ordered vehicle has more to do with selling a car NOW rather than later. The ordered vehicle may not get sold.

The floor plan is a constantly changing collateralized standing loan. A dealership wants to sell in stock vehicles for floor plan reasons, but it also has to do with NOW sales rather than LATER sales.

That seems counter intuitive to me but my wife tells me I only THINK I know everything.

I know that dealers always want to sell TODAY because people flake and pull out of deals. I could never do that particularly on an ordered car. I would be personally embarrassed to go back on my word. I have to realize that many people have no sense of honor and would have no qualm sticking the dealer.

oldfarmer50 · February 2018

dino001 said:

abakomike said:
Ordered vehicles generally are not discounted as much as vehicles in stock because of delayed final sales - 3-8 weeks. Selling a car in stock does not necessarily mean it will be discounted because the dealer pays off the loan - which is not how it works. When an in-stock vehicle is sold, it is quickly replaced by an incoming vehicle that becomes part of the floor plan financing.

Thus, better discounting has to do more about moving a vehicle now rather than dealer-trading for a vehicle or waiting for an ordered vehicle to arrive.
So this is they key for understanding the mentality of dealers, when it comes to orders. Even though ordered cars will not cost the dealer in the floorplan, he has a bigger incentive to push those he has on the floorplan, so he can stop paying interest and get another one. Pay me less now or pay me more later. It’s not about the particular unit’s cost (which is actually lower for an ordered car), but a total cost o bearing inventory. The ordered car in their mind pays interest on the one customer did not take from the lot. Even though it sounds backwards, it is rational in current instant gratification system, where vast majority want the car now, not in 6 weeks.

Yes, I see, now even I get it.

roadburner · February 2018

graphicguy said:
The only dealership that encouraged me to factory order to get EXACTLY what I wanted was BMW.

Actually, one of the Honda dealers encouraged me to order an ‘18 Accord Sport (as I told him that’s what I might be interested in before I bought the Acura.

Dont’ try that with Acura, Mercedes, or Infiniti. Not sure about Lexus.

To me it would seem to be advantageous for a dealer to order for a customer. Matter of fact, I would think a dealership would be more willing to keep much less stock on hand (for demo purposes only) and order most customer requests. Much less floor plan costs.

But, I guess that’s getting too close to the Tesla way of doing business.

Back in 2007 I was seriously considering a new GTI, what with it winning accolades on both sides of the pond. At that time there was still a fair amount of flexibility when it came to options. Problem was, my local dealer acted like the process for ordering a new GTI had a difficulty rating somewhat akin to developing cold fusion. I let them know I would not take a car off the lot or a dealer trade- I wanted a car equipped exactly the way I wanted. The response was a shrug of the shoulders and an insincere "Sorry." I had checked with some salespeople on VW Vortex and they were more than happy to order a car and set up a "Courtesy Delivery" at my local dealer- but I figured that would just ruiffle their feathers and make their already mediocre service department treat me even worse than a real customer. By the way, this is the same store that had the NCM that treated me like an 18 year old looky-loo when I asked when the 2016 Golf R would be available with a manual. At any rate, that's how one VW store lost a sale to Mazda and 9 years later to another BMW

When I worked at BMW we encouraged ordering when a customer wanted a specific option set; in the case of the trucks built in SC we could usually get a new X3/4/5/6 delivered within 2.5 to 3 weeks of the order date- assuming the customer didn't want any BMW Individual paint or trim.

jmonroe · February 2018

imidazol97 said:

Check the base of the bulb you took out. It looks like it's a 17 mm from the repairclinic grid... The bulb I bought would be a fit. The color would be cool white rather than incandescent yellow. And about 10% of the energy use. https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/paoAAOSwovFZ4TMg/s-l1600.jpg https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-LED-Bulb-for-Kenmore-Microwave-790-80342310-Surface-Light-Cool-White-40W-E17/322825676280?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&var=511955969744&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

It's gotten to the point that we are almost forced to buy on line even though we wouldn't mind paying a little more to support the local stores, big box or mom and pop.

A few months ago I decided to finally use my old JVC tape deck from the 70's to listen to some old cassettes but it's been years since I haven't been able to find my old head phones that had the old 1/4 inch phono jack. I was even willing to buy new head phones with the 1/4 jack but none of the local stores had them so I asked, "where are the adapters from 1/4 inch to 3 mm" (I already had 3 mm cord headphones)? I was willing to pay 5 bucks for the adapter so as not to have to go on line to order. Nobody had that and some looked at me like I had 3 heads. I also wanted a couple 6 feet long 3 mm cords. They didn't have that either but at least they knew what I wanted and even said they didn't know why they didn't stock those.

Off to Monoprice I go to get those items. Believe it or not the price for the adapter was something like 61 cents. In any case, way less than the 5 bucks I was willing to pay locally. The cords were a couple bucks each and seemed to be well made. It drives me nuts to pay almost as much for shipping as it does for the product you want to buy on line for small, throw it in an envelope and mail items (I noticed that the light bulb you bought fell into that category). So, I bought 4 adapters and 4 cords. I feel better now but don't ask me when I will ever use those spare adapters. At least there is an outside chance my grandkids might be able to use the cords for their "devices" when they come over, so maybe that was way back in my head when I bought 4 of those.

FWIW, I wanted the 6 foot coiled cord that connects the hand set of the office telephone to the base unit. Couldn't find that either, only tripping length 12 footers are available in the stores around here. Son #2 has Amazon Prime so I had him order (2 days ago) a package of 2 of those including 2 tangle proof swivel adapters for me, cost about 13 bucks IIRC.

It's gotten to the point where you can't even give money away locally for things anymore. We're doomed.

jmonroe

ab348 · February 2018

driver100 said:
When the K Cars first came out I was an idealistic young man and I thought it would be a good car to buy. When I looked at them they were priced very high for what you got. But, there was an oil shortage and Chrysler thought people would pay a lot for them. When sales weren't too good at first Chrysler lowered the price quickly.
That is when sales took off.

I also remember when the K-cars were introduced. Around here at least, all of the early ones on dealer lots were loaded-up top-line models. It took months before I saw a stripped base model. I guess Chrysler figured there was enough buyer interest that they could sell the high-profit models early on.

isellhondas · February 2018

Michaell said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:
@driver100 - since we're talking about acronyms, let's make sure we understand MSRP:

Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price

Suggested - not mandated.

If the car isn't popular you can buy it for a discount. If the car is popular, then the dealer can ask for, and often get, above the sticker price.
Good point. But, MSRP should give you a fair idea of what value the car should be worth. If GM priced an Impala at the same price as a Cadillac we wouldn't think the price was reasonable. The MSRP isn't just a made up number, it should accurately reflect what the manufacturer "expects" to be paid for the car. The important word being "EXPECTS", and in the case of the Mustang the manufacturer values the car at $99k. The dealer thinks he can force someone to pay him $21k extra.....it is his call, nothing illegal or immoral, just not the way I like to do business.

I do think there is some leeway though.........a $5k or $10k premium may be in bounds for a $100k car, but $21k is excessive.......and just IMO.

My own business model would say, if you have an item that is in demand, you are entitled to make extra profit on it.......but, don't get greedy. Customers come back to you if you treat them well.
That new hopped up Civic has an ADM of $10,000 on a $34k car. Pretty steep.
The dealers who are doing that will be living with those cars for a good long time. Our own @breld picked up one of them last year, and paid sticker price (plus the cost of some factory and dealer accessories).

I believe the store where I worked is marking up those new Civics by 5000.00. They take deposits and have a waiting list. They have one but I don't think they allow test drives without a deposit.

Makes up for some of the high volume cars that the "smart shoppers" want to steal!

isellhondas · February 2018

Mr_Shiftright said:
Tesla isn't a franchised business, so that might have something to do with it as well. All Tesla outlets are factory stores, but the other automakers run very few factory stores. Usually factory stores sit on very expensive rear estate.

A friend has a long standing deposit on one of the new, smaller Teslas. I forgot the model number? They keep adding months to the expected delivery date. Somehow I don't see the excitement.

driver100 · February 2018

ab348 said:

driver100 said:
When the K Cars first came out I was an idealistic young man and I thought it would be a good car to buy. When I looked at them they were priced very high for what you got. But, there was an oil shortage and Chrysler thought people would pay a lot for them. When sales weren't too good at first Chrysler lowered the price quickly.
That is when sales took off.
I also remember when the K-cars were introduced. Around here at least, all of the early ones on dealer lots were loaded-up top-line models. It took months before I saw a stripped base model. I guess Chrysler figured there was enough buyer interest that they could sell the high-profit models early on.

That is the way I remember it too. Just to be sure I looked it up on Wikipedia and that is the way it happened;

Sales of the Reliant and Aries got off to a slow early start in 1981; this can be attributed to Chrysler's inadequate preparation. Early advertisements for the K-cars promoted the low $5,880 base price. Rather than honoring that by producing a sufficient amount of base models, Chrysler was producing a larger number of SE and Custom models. When consumers arrived at Plymouth (and Dodge) dealers, they were shocked to find that the Reliant they were planning on purchasing would end up costing hundreds or thousands of dollars more. As a result of this, Chrysler corrected their mistake and began building more base models. After this, sales of the Reliant and Aries skyrocketed

WIKIPEDIA K-Cars

Mr_Shiftright · February 2018

isellhondas said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
Tesla isn't a franchised business, so that might have something to do with it as well. All Tesla outlets are factory stores, but the other automakers run very few factory stores. Usually factory stores sit on very expensive rear estate.
A friend has a long standing deposit on one of the new, smaller Teslas. I forgot the model number? They keep adding months to the expected delivery date. Somehow I don't see the excitement.

Nor do I see the $35K price point. The ones coming to buyers now are all $50K and up. So depositors might have second thoughts when they see the window sticker. You can buy some awfully nice examples of those primitive, prehistoric gasoline cars for $55K.

driver100 · February 2018

graphicguy said:
The only dealership that encouraged me to factory order to get EXACTLY what I wanted was BMW.

Actually, one of the Honda dealers encouraged me to order an ‘18 Accord Sport (as I told him that’s what I might be interested in before I bought the Acura.

Usually when dealers have a "real" sale it is based on buying from current inventory - I assume that means they got some dead stock sitting around that has to get moved.

I don't think manufacturers would allow a dealer to keep only a few models in stock...I believe, and Mike can correct me, dealers are forced to take so many cars and I think to some extent they have to move a certain number of some models.

When we went to the Mercedes plant in Stuttgart we were told every car being built has been ordered. I suppose the dealer orders a certain number of cars for their showroom and for stock. A car ordered by a customer is a 100% sale, the cars the dealer orders may be harder to sell since they might not be exactly what the customer would choose........unless it was isell who doesn't care about color or equipment.

Thanks to Mike and Dino for explanations of why in stock cars usually sell for less. And, why is it called "trunk money"?

suydam · February 2018

Or get a Bolt for well under that.

abacomike · February 2018

driver100 said:

graphicguy said:
The only dealership that encouraged me to factory order to get EXACTLY what I wanted was BMW.

Actually, one of the Honda dealers encouraged me to order an ‘18 Accord Sport (as I told him that’s what I might be interested in before I bought the Acura.

Usually when dealers have a "real" sale it is based on buying from current inventory - I assume that means they got some dead stock sitting around that has to get moved.

I don't think manufacturers would allow a dealer to keep only a few models in stock...I believe, and Mike can correct me, dealers are forced to take so many cars and I think to some extent they have to move a certain number of some models.

When we went to the Mercedes plant in Stuttgart we were told every car being built has been ordered. I suppose the dealer orders a certain number of cars for their showroom and for stock. A car ordered by a customer is a 100% sale, the cars the dealer orders may be harder to sell since they might not be exactly what the customer would choose........unless it was isell who doesn't care about color or equipment.

Thanks to Mike and Dino for explanations of why in stock cars usually sell for less. And, why is it called "trunk money"?

Once each month I would sit down with the other sales managers and order cars for inventory - it usually took the entire day because we were ordering 200-300 cars each month. We had to consider the following variables for ordering for inventory:

Color - we knew which colors were most desired by customers in our area - but we limited ordering navy blue, light blue, red and beige to one or two per model. Silver, white, black (yes, black - a highly desired color down here, believe it or not), gray and maroon were the most popular.

Interior - We ordered mainly leather interiors - black and beige being the most popular. We did order gray, but only 1/2 as many as black and beige. We never ordered cloth interiors - but at times, the factory would build them with cloth and we usually bought those from the Port of Entry - overstocked and unsold ones, that is.

Engines - We ordered mainly 6 cylinder engines because few customers desired the V8's. So we limited V8 ordering to one per color. We had no 4 cylinder models at that time.

Tires/Wheels - We always ordered the standard size wheel and tires for 90% of most models. At times, we would order 19" wheels and tires for the sport models in each model.

Other Options - We ordered 50% of our cars with premium packages which usually included upgraded interiors, GPS, upgraded stereos, etc. Moon Roofs were optional on some of the models, so we ordered most cars with them - a few cheaper models we ordered without roofs.

That's why most cars produced at the factory are orders - orders from dealers and special orders for customers which came out of our monthly allocations. The factory, at times, will produce cars for distribution which dealerships would not usually order. An example of this was when the new Mercedes E300 came out 18 months ago - 90% of the E300's that arrived on the first batch of transports were white and did not have ventilated seats. Now think about that - what Mercedes dealer would order only white E300's and not add ventilated seats as a stand alone option here in south Florida? No one! That concept has me totally baffled. But that's what happened - trying to find an E300 with ventilated seats was almost impossible unless it came with the very expensive Premium 3 package.

Ordering cars was very time consuming but very important. Order too many cars in outlandish colors or colors that were not popular and you could sit on those in inventory for 6 months. Order too few popular options and colors, etc., and you would end up losing sales to other dealerships. It was a very important task that had to be done right!

jmonroe · February 2018

oldfarmer50 said:

abacomike said:

oldfarmer50 said:

abacomike said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:
One other thing I remembered. When I bought my 2008 BMW 328 hardtop convertible I ordered it in August for November. The dealer was allotted 2 a month, 2 in October were sold and one in November was sold. I got the last one allotted for November, but, the dealer wouldn't give me a discount saying they would sell it for full price anyway. Fair enough, I to this day question whether that was true, but, it has the sound of truth behind it. But, I don't think I would have paid more than list price for the car.........I would check elsewhere first. It would be too upsetting to be taken advantage of..............and I haven't bought another car from that dealer.
We always tell folks shopping for BMW's to target 7% off sticker, before applying any available incentives.

But, Canada is a different market, so those guidelines may not apply.

I will suggest that an ordered car isn't going to be discounted as much by the dealer. Why? Because of that "floorplan" loan that the dealer took out to buy the car to begin with. If the dealer knows it's going to be sold within a day or two of arriving, that loan will be paid back that much quicker.
That's something I never understood. Why a higher price when the loan is paid right off? Doesn't that save the dealer some interest payments?

Or am I misunderstanding the floor plan system?

A Floor Plan is the financing of a new car dealer’s inventory. It is usually financed through a fairly large financial institution such as Wells Fargo, Chase, etc. Sometimes, a vehicle manufacturer finances a dealer’s inventory, especially large volume dealerships. The dealer pays interest on the loan but does not usually pay the bank any principal. The interest rate is variable and tied to market funds.

Ordered vehicles generally are not discounted as much as vehicles in stock because of delayed final sales - 3-8 weeks. Selling a car in stock does not necessarily mean it will be discounted because the dealer pays off the loan - which is not how it works. When an in-stock vehicle is sold, it is quickly replaced by an incoming vehicle that becomes part of the floor plan financing.

Thus, better discounting has to do more about moving a vehicle now rather than dealer-trading for a vehicle or waiting for an ordered vehicle to arrive.
So basically there is less interest payment on an in stock unit vs. an ordered unit?

Of course - if it is not in stock, interest is not being paid on the ordered vehicle. HOWEVER, remember an ordered vehicle is not a sold vehicle. “A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush!” The reason for discounting the in stock vehicle more than an ordered vehicle has more to do with selling a car NOW rather than later. The ordered vehicle may not get sold.

The floor plan is a constantly changing collateralized standing loan. A dealership wants to sell in stock vehicles for floor plan reasons, but it also has to do with NOW sales rather than LATER sales.

That seems counter intuitive to me but my wife tells me I only THINK I know everything.

I know that dealers always want to sell TODAY because people flake and pull out of deals. I could never do that particularly on an ordered car. I would be personally embarrassed to go back on my word. I have to realize that many people have no sense of honor and would have no qualm sticking the dealer.

Back in '66 a Pontiac dealer agreed to "order" a Bonneville for me just like I wanted it. He didn't even want a down payment or holding money of any kind. When I asked what the price was going to be I got something like, "oh, don't worry about that I'll take care of you when it gets here. Even if you don't want it, I'll be able to sell it to someone because it's equipped the way most people would want it". He was a pretty fast talker but since he was willing to do that, why not.

About a month later he called and said my car was in so come and get it. When I asked, "how much" I got, "man that is a sharp color. I can see why you wanted that car". I asked again and got another salesman type answer. The call end with me saying no thanks. The following weekend I went too another dealer and bought my '66 Bonneville. The following Monday the salesman calls back (I guess they didn't sell my "sharp car"). I told him it was too late, I bought from another dealer. He then wanted to know what I paid for it. I told him it didn't make any difference because I was satisfied with the deal. He insisted on me telling him so I told him. Guess what, the dealer I bought from screwed me out of $150, which back then wasn't chicken feed. I learned my lesson, I should have bought from the fast talking guy.

I don't consider that going back on my word, but just in case, I will have to live with that decision.

Off the car talk subject but somewhat related.

If you want to talk about not honoring your word, what do you think about what Josh Mc Daniels (the Patriots offensive coordinator) did about saying he would become the Colts head coach. Even went so far as to have the Colts hire a couple coaches that he wanted then just before a press conference to make it all official, he backs out. I don't think that guy would have any problems with stiffing a dealer. I can't imagine what might be asked of him when he tells a local merchant, even selling paper napkins, "to hold it, I just have to go next door to get a sandwich. I'm hungry, I'll be right back". Sure he will.

jmonroe

dino001 · February 2018

driver100 said:

When we went to the Mercedes plant in Stuttgart we were told every car being built has been ordered. I suppose the dealer orders a certain number of cars for their showroom and for stock. A car ordered by a customer is a 100% sale, the cars the dealer orders may be harder to sell since they might not be exactly what the customer would choose........unless it was isell who doesn't care about color or equipment.

Yeah, my BMW hosts in Spartanburg and Munich claimed the same. But it’s really stretching truth, just a little. There are still allotments and quotas for models. So the difference is that Honda makes an exact car they think customer will want (based on their market reasearch snd dealer’s inputs) and then sends it to a dealer to sell, whereas BMW or Mercedes say to their dealer’s manager we have 50 of those and 20 of those to send to you, you or your customer pick the color and options (thus the dealers won’t be as resistant to orders as an idea, but they still like to be paid more than the lot cars for stated reasons). There are even special colors and other options that can only be ordered by a real customer. Dealers go around it and make up fake ones if they want one on their floor.

You can see the dealership’s manager taste and sense of adventure or understanding their market at work when you go to BMW’s dealersips. One place may have only white, silver and black with, lots of fake leather, near strippers and just across town you can the exact opposite, like lively colors, sporty options, or completely overloaded with silly stuff, sometimes 10 grand over, etc. Unfortunately neither one may be in my taste. It was sometimes really binary. When I was looking for my GC, I wanted a red one with brown leater. There were several red, only with beige leather. I was considering 435/440 at a time, but wanted to limit “silly” equipment, keeping the price near 53-55, not exactly a stripper, but not overloaded. Nope, from those few on the lots, all had either thousands added in gadgets, aesthetic add-on, with price sailing way past 60 grand, or couple had zero options. Nothing in between. At least, as gg said, there is no resistance from taking an order, even uf the price is not lowest. So I got my Euro delivery, as there was nothing even close on the lots. Fun trip a bonus.

fintail · February 2018

Yeah, cars at Sindelfingen et al have been "ordered", but not usually by people, but by corporations - MBUSA, MB Canada, MB China, etc. The factory doesn't blindly ship cars to dealers, someone picks it out, even if it is someone checking boxes on a spreadsheet. I think a lot of buyers don't care, they are leasing - if colors are tolerable and it has a few toys, sold.

I've always thought my E250 was an abandoned special order, as it is an odd color and option car, but nothing in the VIN history suggests it - I think the sales manager just picked a high option diesel thinking it might sell (and was wrong, it sat on their storage lot for almost a year before I came along).

driver100 said:

When we went to the Mercedes plant in Stuttgart we were told every car being built has been ordered. I suppose the dealer orders a certain number of cars for their showroom and for stock. A car ordered by a customer is a 100% sale, the cars the dealer orders may be harder to sell since they might not be exactly what the customer would choose........unless it was isell who doesn't care about color or equipment.

Thanks to Mike and Dino for explanations of why in stock cars usually sell for less. And, why is it called "trunk money"?

oldfarmer50 · February 2018

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

driver100 said:
When the K Cars first came out I was an idealistic young man and I thought it would be a good car to buy. When I looked at them they were priced very high for what you got. But, there was an oil shortage and Chrysler thought people would pay a lot for them. When sales weren't too good at first Chrysler lowered the price quickly.
That is when sales took off.
I also remember when the K-cars were introduced. Around here at least, all of the early ones on dealer lots were loaded-up top-line models. It took months before I saw a stripped base model. I guess Chrysler figured there was enough buyer interest that they could sell the high-profit models early on.
That is the way I remember it too. Just to be sure I looked it up on Wikipedia and that is the way it happened;

Sales of the Reliant and Aries got off to a slow early start in 1981; this can be attributed to Chrysler's inadequate preparation. Early advertisements for the K-cars promoted the low $5,880 base price. Rather than honoring that by producing a sufficient amount of base models, Chrysler was producing a larger number of SE and Custom models. When consumers arrived at Plymouth (and Dodge) dealers, they were shocked to find that the Reliant they were planning on purchasing would end up costing hundreds or thousands of dollars more. As a result of this, Chrysler corrected their mistake and began building more base models. After this, sales of the Reliant and Aries skyrocketed

WIKIPEDIA K-Cars

That's always the been the case, lure you in with a stripper price only to be told that there are none available at that price. The only difference is that today they advertise "starting at" prices.

I remember looking for a Toyota truck for $5995 in 1986 as advertised but ended up buying an upscale model for about $7500. Those were the baby seal days.

oldfarmer50 · February 2018

jmonroe said:

oldfarmer50 said:

abacomike said:

oldfarmer50 said:

abacomike said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:
One other thing I remembered. When I bought my 2008 BMW 328 hardtop convertible I ordered it in August for November. The dealer was allotted 2 a month, 2 in October were sold and one in November was sold. I got the last one allotted for November, but, the dealer wouldn't give me a discount saying they would sell it for full price anyway. Fair enough, I to this day question whether that was true, but, it has the sound of truth behind it. But, I don't think I would have paid more than list price for the car.........I would check elsewhere first. It would be too upsetting to be taken advantage of..............and I haven't bought another car from that dealer.
We always tell folks shopping for BMW's to target 7% off sticker, before applying any available incentives.

But, Canada is a different market, so those guidelines may not apply.

I will suggest that an ordered car isn't going to be discounted as much by the dealer. Why? Because of that "floorplan" loan that the dealer took out to buy the car to begin with. If the dealer knows it's going to be sold within a day or two of arriving, that loan will be paid back that much quicker.
That's something I never understood. Why a higher price when the loan is paid right off? Doesn't that save the dealer some interest payments?

Or am I misunderstanding the floor plan system?

A Floor Plan is the financing of a new car dealer’s inventory. It is usually financed through a fairly large financial institution such as Wells Fargo, Chase, etc. Sometimes, a vehicle manufacturer finances a dealer’s inventory, especially large volume dealerships. The dealer pays interest on the loan but does not usually pay the bank any principal. The interest rate is variable and tied to market funds.

Ordered vehicles generally are not discounted as much as vehicles in stock because of delayed final sales - 3-8 weeks. Selling a car in stock does not necessarily mean it will be discounted because the dealer pays off the loan - which is not how it works. When an in-stock vehicle is sold, it is quickly replaced by an incoming vehicle that becomes part of the floor plan financing.

Thus, better discounting has to do more about moving a vehicle now rather than dealer-trading for a vehicle or waiting for an ordered vehicle to arrive.
So basically there is less interest payment on an in stock unit vs. an ordered unit?

Of course - if it is not in stock, interest is not being paid on the ordered vehicle. HOWEVER, remember an ordered vehicle is not a sold vehicle. “A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush!” The reason for discounting the in stock vehicle more than an ordered vehicle has more to do with selling a car NOW rather than later. The ordered vehicle may not get sold.

The floor plan is a constantly changing collateralized standing loan. A dealership wants to sell in stock vehicles for floor plan reasons, but it also has to do with NOW sales rather than LATER sales.

That seems counter intuitive to me but my wife tells me I only THINK I know everything.

I know that dealers always want to sell TODAY because people flake and pull out of deals. I could never do that particularly on an ordered car. I would be personally embarrassed to go back on my word. I have to realize that many people have no sense of honor and would have no qualm sticking the dealer.

Back in '66 a Pontiac dealer agreed to "order" a Bonneville for me just like I wanted it. He didn't even want a down payment or holding money of any kind. When I asked what the price was going to be I got something like, "oh, don't worry about that I'll take care of you when it gets here. Even if you don't want it, I'll be able to sell it to someone because it's equipped the way most people would want it". He was a pretty fast talker but since he was willing to do that, why not.

About a month later he called and said my car was in so come and get it. When I asked, "how much" I got, "man that is a sharp color. I can see why you wanted that car". I asked again and got another salesman type answer. The call end with me saying no thanks. The following weekend I went too another dealer and bought my '66 Bonneville. The following Monday the salesman calls back (I guess they didn't sell my "sharp car"). I told him it was too late, I bought from another dealer. He then wanted to know what I paid for it. I told him it didn't make any difference because I was satisfied with the deal. He insisted on me telling him so I told him. Guess what, the dealer I bought from screwed me out of $150, which back then wasn't chicken feed. I learned my lesson, I should have bought from the fast talking guy.

I don't consider that going back on my word, but just in case, I will have to live with that decision.

Off the car talk subject but somewhat related.

If you want to talk about not honoring your word, what do you think about what Josh Mc Daniels (the Patriots offensive coordinator) did about saying he would become the Colts head coach. Even went so far as to have the Colts hire a couple coaches that he wanted then just before a press conference to make it all official, he backs out. I don't think that guy would have any problems with stiffing a dealer. I can't imagine what might be asked of him when he tells a local merchant, even selling paper napkins, "to hold it, I just have to go next door to get a sandwich. I'm hungry, I'll be right back". Sure he will.

jmonroe

I never take orders for popular items at the farmer's market (yeah I'm back in that again) because 90% of the time the person never shows up and you end up taking it home when you could have sold it. A car isn't as perishable as a tomato but I can understand the dealer's position.

coldinohio · February 2018

this car was at local dealer
https://www.mbmelbourne.com/MB.html?st=Price+desc

special order that buyer changed mind;

ouch

explorerx4 · February 2018

@coldinohio, At least the color has a cool name. Could also fit with just being seen in it.

ab348 · February 2018

"Green Hell", indeed.

The only yellow in the interior seems to be some stitching and, strangely, the safety belts.

driver100 · February 2018

JMonroe
I told him it was too late, I bought from another dealer. He then wanted to know what I paid for it. I told him it didn't make any difference because I was satisfied with the deal. He insisted on me telling him so I told him. Guess what, the dealer I bought from screwed me out of $150, which back then wasn't chicken feed.

I don't believe it and I don't trust him. He told you his price was $150 less once he knew what you paid, and it wouldn't have been if you had bought from him.

driver100 · February 2018

My 2017 E400 was a dealer ordered car. If I didn't take the one they had on order I would wait an additional 2 months. Thank goodness, they could change it...I had a few days to decide on colors and equipment, but, the car was mine if I wanted that one.

oldfarmer50 · February 2018

coldinohio said:
this car was at local dealer
https://www.mbmelbourne.com/MB.html?st=Price+desc

special order that buyer changed mind;

ouch

Yeah, most of those are ugly but I like that cool green one.

driver100 · February 2018

I like the white one below it more and I would save almost $20000 over the one you're getting.

graphicguy · February 2018

Just heard Jeremy Clarkson say on “The Grand Tour” that Tesla is about to surpass Volvo. Don’t know if that’s for unit sales or revenue, though. BTW....he really liked the Tesla X SUV (except for the price).

qbrozen · February 2018

graphicguy said:

Just heard Jeremy Clarkson say on “The Grand Tour” that Tesla is about to surpass Volvo. Don’t know if that’s for unit sales or revenue, though. BTW....he really liked the Tesla X SUV (except for the price).

Pretty sure neither. Volvo sold 47k vehicles in Jan. Tesla does that in what? 6 mos?

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