Postwar Studebakers

fintail · December 2020

This popped up in a fintail group - this is apparently across the street from the Studebaker administration building, 1962. Notice at right there's a whitewalled W111 coupe (fintail coupe) and what looks like a ponton at far right:

(right click to enlarge/zoom)

uplanderguy · December 2020

Summer '62 photo (estimate, due to Avanti emblem on sign) of Main St. in South Bend. The Administration Building is just across the street, out of photo. Beautiful new Gran Turismo Hawk and signage showing all the divisions at that time. Photo courtesy Richard Quinn.

uplanderguy · December 2020

Same picture, not so close-up. For fin, note 230SL coupe (I think) and old Ponton. Funny, that one looks like it could be the one that sits across the street from the Administration Building now, although of course I realize the chance of that is nearly nil.

uplanderguy · December 2020

Sorry for the duplication! We are on the same wavelength apparently today, LOL. Richard Quinn posted that on the Studebaker Addicts page on FB, and also the Memories of South Bend page, after I asked him if he had the pic as I'd seen it before and thought it was a cool pic. In my lifetime too. Apparently other folks besides me thought it was a neat picture. As I'd mentioned not long ago, color pics of Studebaker of that era are quite rare.

I'm loving the Gran Turismo Hawks and the '62 Lark convertible, top-down. This was an employee parking lot. No way would I park a convertible with the top down there now, LOL. The parking lot is still there.

If I had, say, five chances to safely go back in time for a day, and safely return, one would be to pop up in this general part of South Bend, just after the production shutdown. There were supposedly still unsold '63's in storage lots, and of course '64's of all models.

uplanderguy · December 2020

You know me, I'm a 'domestic' guy, but that W111 coupe looks very elegant in color and proportion, and subdued trim (no phony scoops or unnecessary trim as was typical of some domestics at the time).

sda · December 2020

Great picture. I didn’t realize the depth of Studebaker went beyond Studebaker. Gravely, STP, etc. Not surprising, however, as GM, Ford, Chrysler all did the same.

ab348 · December 2020

I recognize a few of those logos (like STP) but not most. Was Clarke a forklift manufacturer?

kyfdx · December 2020

ab348 said:
I recognize a few of those logos (like STP) but not most. Was Clarke a forklift manufacturer?

No, the forklift maker is Clark (no e)

uplanderguy · December 2020

The company's 1963 annual report listed the following divisions:

Clarke – Floor Machine Division, Muskegon, Michigan
CTL – Missile/Space Technology Division, Cincinnati, Ohio
Franklin – Appliance Division, Minneapolis, Minnesota (home office; other locations also in Minnesota, Iowa, and Ontario). Manufactured private label kitchen and laundry appliances for major retailers until sold to White Consolidated Industries.[48]
Gravely Tractor – Tractors Division, Dunbar, West Virginia, and Albany, Georgia
International – South Bend, Indiana (handled business matters for all divisions doing business overseas)
Onan – Engine/Generator Division, Minneapolis, Minnesota
Paxton Automotive – automobile superchargers
STP – Chemical Compounds Division, Des Plaines, Illinois, and Santa Monica, California. Produced automotive engine additives.
Schaefer – Commercial Refrigeration Division, Minneapolis, Minnesota, and Aberdeen, Maryland
Studebaker of Canada – Automotive Manufacturing, Hamilton, Ontario
SASCO – Studebaker Automotive Sales Corp., South Bend, Indiana.
Studegrip – Tire Stud Division, South Bend, Indiana, Jefferson, Iowa, and Minneapolis, Minnesota
Trans International Airlines – founded by Kirk Kerkorian

Andy Granatelli came to the company with Paxton. He spoke maybe 15 years ago at the museum; would've liked to hear him. He said Egbert was suggesting him as his own replacement when the writing was on the wall, and that he and his wife were looking at homes in South Bend when the shutdown announcement came. Andy was always known as a self-promoter so I don't know how much of that was accurate.

uplanderguy · December 2020

Today, 57 years ago, this last Studebaker was built on the South Bend line. Survives with 23 miles in the Studebaker National Museum. Nicely equipped, with Avanti R1 power, 4-speed, disc brakes, in-dash tach, Twin Traction, and 50/50 split front bench seat in cloth-and-vinyl. This pic was taken at the old Studebaker National Museum, which was in the former Freeman-Spicer dealership building downtown.

Production from that point, until March 17, 1966, occurred in the company's Hamilton, Ontario plant. All trucks, the Hawk, and Avanti models were discontinued, although two Studebaker dealers in South Bend bought the rights, leftover parts, and building the Avanti was built in, and in 1965 reintroduced the "Avanti II", with Corvette power.

Besides my liking the size and character of these cars, only 2,414 1964 Daytona Hardtops were built between South Bend and Hamilton, so they're quite rare.

imidazol97 · December 2020

I loved those 56 Mercurys. 1956 Mercury Custom four door sedan under the sign.

uplanderguy · December 2020

fin, what would a W111 coupe have gone for in around '62?

imidazol97 · December 2020

A Columbus radio program had a quiz about what the STP name was abbreviating?
Uplanderguy likely knows this answer.

Without doing a duckduckgo.com
or other internet search,
does anyone know? I didn't recall until the correct meaning was given...

ab348 · December 2020

Studebaker Transmission Products, I think.

fintail · December 2020

Funny. There seems to be some crossover in the fintail groups between Stude as well. It's a fantastic pic, and with that billboard, it seems there was still optimism in the brand.

Ponton does appear to be a 6cyl car like the one hanging out there in recent days, and it could be the same color. You never know. I find the Lark convertible between the coupe and ponton to be interesting, too.

I suspect a 220SE coupe then was around an $8-9K car. Seen as very elegant and timeless even at the time, the design lived on until MY 1971, at that time being available with a small V8. The final run V8 cabrios are seriously collectible now, a car that cost 15K at most in 1971 can hit 300K at auction if in really concours condition, not bad for a non-sports car.

uplanderguy said:
Sorry for the duplication! We are on the same wavelength apparently today, LOL. Richard Quinn posted that on the Studebaker Addicts page on FB, and also the Memories of South Bend page, after I asked him if he had the pic as I'd seen it before and thought it was a cool pic. In my lifetime too. Apparently other folks besides me thought it was a neat picture. As I'd mentioned not long ago, color pics of Studebaker of that era are quite rare.

I'm loving the Gran Turismo Hawks and the '62 Lark convertible, top-down. This was an employee parking lot. No way would I park a convertible with the top down there now, LOL. The parking lot is still there.

If I had, say, five chances to safely go back in time for a day, and safely return, one would be to pop up in this general part of South Bend, just after the production shutdown. There were supposedly still unsold '63's in storage lots, and of course '64's of all models.

uplanderguy · December 2020

STP=Scientifically Treated Petroleum. And I didn't cheat! LOL

uplanderguy · December 2020

'62--the last model year Stude built over 100K cars, not counting trucks. Sales of the Lark, Hawk, and pickups were all up in '62. They took a strike early in the calendar year, which hurt the momentum of course. Sadly, only a year-and-a-half or so after that pic was taken, the bottom fell out at South Bend.

uplanderguy · December 2020

I loved those 56 Mercurys. 1956 Mercury Custom four door sedan under the sign.

At first glance, I thought that was a '55 or '56 Packard Clipper. I did always think there were similarities in the styling of those cars, although they were 'out' simultaneously.

When I was a kid, the older brother of a guy my sister dated had a rust-orange colored '56 Montclair two-door hardtop, chrome-reverse wheels, and I thought it was a cool car then.

ab348 · December 2020

uplanderguy said:
STP=Scientifically Treated Petroleum. And I didn't cheat! LOL

I stand corrected! I read the answer I gave somewhere just recently. Another victim of "It it's on the internet it must be true" syndrome.

imidazol97 · December 2020

ab348 said:
Studebaker Transmission Products, I think.

Studebaker Tested Products was the name tied to the abbreviation after Studebaker bought the original company in 1961.

But the original company said the original meaning was Scientifically Treated Petroleum.

But the Columbus car radio show actually had it backwards. I wonder if anyone has corrected them on their "quiz." Of course, they likely had an adjective or something in there made it during the time Studebaker owned the product.

https://www.madddoodler.com/what-does-stp-stand-for

imidazol97 · December 2020

An odd Studebaker picture I came across. It was titled that the Studebaker was parking in the shade.

uplanderguy · December 2020

Business coupe, pretty unusual!

uplanderguy · December 2020

Saw this link yesterday--the guy who broke the Studebaker shutdown announcement:

https://www.southbendtribune.com/news/studebaker/breaking-the-news-studebaker-closing/article_12b9b59a-5ea0-11e3-a0ed-001a4bcf6878.html?fbclid=IwAR3JN2kRadW7cClugQI4BJcCDnadVuxn9xfnWfJPq7Jo17V4sdIBF_qh5mo

sda · December 2020

That was an interesting article. It is bad enough to lose your job, but your pension too, miserable.
Was the move to Hamilton because it was a more modern factory, lower labor cost?

ab348 · December 2020

I guess pension rules must have been very different back then. On the surface it is hard to understand how/why since the company continued to carry on for some years.

uplanderguy · December 2020

The Hamilton plant was built in 1941 by Otis Elevator and Studebaker bought it in 1946. It was much, much smaller than the sprawling South Bend complex and much newer than a lot of the South Bend operation, which included multi-story buildings from the nineteenth century. Hamilton was a one-story plant.

RE.: Pensions, the story is that most lost their pensions in South Bend, although I've seen some guys say "I had a pension" or "My Dad got a pension", so I'm not sure what the criteria was.

Supposedly in the U.S., ERISA (Employee Retirement Income Security Act) was founded at least in part by the plight of Studebaker employees in South Bend. Found this link that mentions it specifically:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employee_Retirement_Income_Security_Act_of_1974

uplanderguy · December 2020

I know I repeat a lot, but the article about how the local paper broke the story, mentions NBC sneaking a spy camera into the plant to get footage of the last car coming down the line, which Studebaker didn't want happening as they wanted to project the image that they were still going to be assembling new cars, just not in South Bend.

Probably twenty years ago, I was in Stow, Ohio at a Friday's restaurant, and I had a Studebaker National Museum sweatshirt on. A handsome older fellow came to my table and said he was a Notre Dame grad and had worked at the NBC affiliate in South Bend when the plant closed. NBC in Chicago drove a spycam of some sort to South Bend and he was the guy who went in the plant and took the footage that was shown on Huntley and Brinkley that night. He told me he went a few days without shaving, paid a guy coming out of the plant the day before ten bucks for his employee badge, and went in the last day with the throng.

Amazingly, I told him I'd always heard that story--and here he was!

He was surprised it was well-known in Studebaker circles. He didn't know anything about the museum and not much about the cars, but said he did get back for the occasional Notre Dame football game.

I had him speak to our local club. Nice guy. I know his name but have lost touch with him.

Something those short interviews with former employees on the newspaper page I'd posted above, reminded me of is how so many employees referred to the company as "Studebaker's".

Would be kind of cool if the "ironic 'Merry Christmas'" scrawled across the windshield of that final car had remained, but I guess I understand why it was removed at some point.

uplanderguy · December 2020

Hey fin, will you check this baby out for me out there in WA? $500!

....and probably $495 overpriced at that. But hey, it's got the owner's manual!

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/190379196055871/

fintail · December 2020

Unfortunately, it is virtually as far from me as possible, complete other side of the state. Offer $300 and I bet he'd bite - nobody will be knocking down his door to get it.

Funny, my dad retired to that area briefly, before he realized he hated the weather. He was friends with a guy there who had a blue Champ.

uplanderguy said:
Hey fin, will you check this baby out for me out there in WA? $500!

....and probably $495 overpriced at that. But hey, it's got the owner's manual!

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/190379196055871/

Michaell · January 2021

Meanwhile, in Cuba...

fintail · January 2021

LOL whoa a modern MB-Stude link.

imidazol97 · January 2021

That hood fit is pretty bad.

Michaell · January 2021

fintail said:
LOL whoa a modern MB-Stude link.

Was posted on a Subaru FB page I’m a member of...

fintail · January 2021

A new one to me. Both parts are somewhat vintage now, too - wagon is no newer than 1995.

Michaell said:

Was posted on a Subaru FB page I’m a member of...

uplanderguy · January 2021

Yeesh! I am a bit amazed at the bodywork required to pull that off, but to what effect, ick.

uplanderguy · January 2021

I like this Avanti on BaT. White is very natural on an Avanti I think. Luckily this one doesn't have the 'Tangerine' (orange!) interior!

Car mags of the day said the Avanti was the only domestic with true bucket seats. Reportedly, the style was cribbed from Alfa. But I always thought the backs looked thin, until for '64 they added a second, thicker section for the back ("thick seats" in Studebaker-land).

Something about those pinstripe whitewalls bugs me though. For one, couldn't they clean up better than that? Secondly, that style makes me think those tires are old.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1963-studebaker-avanti-25/

ab348 · January 2021

Nice Avanti. I also thought the tires might be old - seeing those Michelin whitewalls it struck me that they are tire store items that haven't been made in a long time, and you cannot get whitewalls these days from any of those places unless they tap into a specialty manufacturer like Coker.

One curious thing I noticed - on the jamb end of the drivers door is a bar code. No idea why.

uplanderguy · January 2021

That is weird; I hadn't noticed it. I wonder if it would be from an oil change or service place, although one would think there'd a label with name of the place attached if so.

That pic shows the door latch, which was either a Mercedes-Benz item or cribbed from them, I can't recall.

lemko1968 · January 2021

1958 Studebaker President.

lemko1968 · January 2021

1958 Studebaker Golden Hawk.

uplanderguy · January 2021

Hershey! I specifically remember the white '58 in 2018 when I was last there, but I spent much of my Saturday then drooling over the red '64 supercharged Daytona Hardtop there.

Thanks for posting! That Golden Hawk is probably my choice of a 1958 car. Only 878 1958 Golden Hawks built.

fintail · January 2021

The door latch is very similar to my fintail.

I like the dash color and steering wheel coordination there.

uplanderguy said:
That is weird; I hadn't noticed it. I wonder if it would be from an oil change or service place, although one would think there'd a label with name of the place attached if so.

That pic shows the door latch, which was either a Mercedes-Benz item or cribbed from them, I can't recall.

uplanderguy · January 2021

One thing I like about Avanti interiors then was everything (almost) was soft to the touch.

lemko1968 · January 2021

1957 Studebaker Commander

uplanderguy · January 2021

I don't remember that one. Of the '56 and '57, I like the '56 a bit better--taillights look like flares. The '57 taillights look like Pontiac's taillights that year as well.

uplanderguy · January 2021

New Mecum result--'57 Golden Hawk, $74.8K. Golden Hawks, particularly '57's, continue to bring the most of any postwar Studebakers, in general:

https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0121-444848/1957-studebaker-golden-hawk-hardtop/?fbclid=IwAR1L9sEIH2NRGfTlHvJtmA3lfDpY0zmslC0JmK7SYXsGqA64YAmiTSdocLU

Function of my age probably, but I like these a lot better:

Hard to see, but the bottom of the right 2/3 of the panel had a thick padded section too. I recall one magazine review of the '64 Hawk praised the padding as "unlike 1/4 inch thick like the rest of the industry", LOL.

Only 1,767 of these 1964 Gran Turismo Hawks built, and they were only built from August through December 20, 1963. The very last one is in private hands.

1964 Gran Turismo Hawk base price, $2,958. Included the bucket seats, all instruments except the (optional) tach, and full wheel covers, not bad.

uplanderguy · January 2021

The white '63 Avanti on BaT discussed above, sold for $32K yesterday:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1963-studebaker-avanti-25/?fbclid=IwAR1CNFsc9xtjsxK9kzmOYpap3P6B1Uge6S5oEpKSWSF1p2Rgb2R2zFPaHqE

ab348 · February 2021

Spotted a couple of Studebaker pics I hadn't seen previously. Their stand at the '63 Chicago auto show, and what must be a pretty uncommon 1966 promotional postcard.

lemko1968 · February 2021

1963 Lark Daytona Sport.

fintail · February 2021

That Chicago Auto Show pic is excellent, vibrant, and interesting cars around the Studes too - Travelall, Jeeps, and even BMC. I bet MB was lurking just around the corner.

Postwar Studebakers

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