Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

sda · November 2021

carnaught said:

bwia said:
On a slightly different note. The venerable giant, General Electric is going to break-up into three different publicly traded companies.

The Boston-based company said the three businesses would focus on Energy, Healthcare and Aviation.

Who killed GE? I don't know but I remember in the late 1980s, when GE was run by Jack Welsh, it was the most admired company in America. His management style was copied and emulated at all levels of business, government and industry. I must say I admired the man and worshipped him, warts and all, until his death.

All of GE badged appliances are now owned by Haier.

Sadly

driver100 · November 2021

carnaught said:

bwia said:
On a slightly different note. The venerable giant, General Electric is going to break-up into three different publicly traded companies.

The Boston-based company said the three businesses would focus on Energy, Healthcare and Aviation.

Who killed GE? I don't know but I remember in the late 1980s, when GE was run by Jack Welsh, it was the most admired company in America. His management style was copied and emulated at all levels of business, government and industry. I must say I admired the man and worshipped him, warts and all, until his death.

All of GE badged appliances are now owned by Haier.

Amazing how the great ones eventually fall

venture · November 2021

The Acura Integra is to be introduced tomorrow evening, for anyone interested.

stickguy · November 2021

I am!

Of course it’s the prototype. Model details and pricing, easily 6 months down the line.

oldfarmer50 · November 2021

kyfdx said:

oldfarmer50 said:

qbrozen said:
Because they need a car and no way in hell will they afford one with the (small) equity check and late/no payments in their history?

I never got that head in the sand planning.
You just haven't been poor enough...

Au contraire’. I’ve been poorer than poor. I’ve been land rich and dirt poor. That’s when you have no money but you’re not eligible for any government assistance because you own land.

I still didn’t get to the point of car repos.

andres3 · November 2021

driver100 said:

sda said:
My wife and daughter drove to Atlanta last weekend to attend a concert. I consider my wife a very competent driver. She is in tune with her vehicle, her surroundings, drives defensively, stays in the right lane as much as possible but is no slow poke. She commented on her return that the drive was fairly stressful as many drivers lacked any regard for others and dangerously cut in and out of traffic without any warning, no driving etiquette what so ever.
Try driving on I-75, I don't think anyone is going less than 80mph, and 90% of the ones going 80 or more aren't qualified to be driving that fast.

Anyone not qualified to go 80 MPH in a modern day automobile is UNSAFE at ANY speed! Period. Full Stop.

andres3 · November 2021

snakeweasel said:

bwia said:
It's not about me. If I had the choice I would be riding a horse. And come to think of it, are horses allowed on the expressway? I didn't think so!
No one is keeping you off a horse. Who cares if they are not allowed on the expressway, you can go just as fast on a side street as you could on an expressway. FWIW while I was still free and single I hung out at a bar walking distance from my house, there was a regular there that actually rode his horse to the bar. This was in the western suburbs of Chicago, spitting distance from O'Hare.
bwia said:
When it comes to speed, I'm not totally against it. But there has to be some limits, for regular passengers and for the speed demons who worship at the alter of no speed limits on weekends on designated roadways and speedway.

In the 1970s when we were advocating seat belt use and DUI enforcement some people called us idealists and kooks. Today, most drivers buckle up, if not from fear of losing their driving privileges but not have to face up to innocent eyes their vulnerable young children sitting in booster seats.
When it comes to seat belt laws I think that there is a little hypocrisy with them especially in states like Illinois. When I get in a car surrounded by a steel cage with crumple zones designed to protect the occupants and equipped with air bags and other safety devices to protect occupants you can get a ticket for not wearing a seat belt. But get on a motorcycle with none of that and exposed to everything the only legal thing you have to wear is eye protection. No helmets or any other safety gear is required.
bwia said:
Thank you for NOT listening.

Did you say something?

If your horse ran super-humanly....errr... super-horsey fast, you might be legal in some States on the expressway.

Seat belt laws also exist to keep the driver in the driver's position able to control their own vehicle so they can't use the "but I was in the back seat after I got bumped" argument for mowing pedestrians down needlessly, when if they were buckled, they could have easily applied the brakes.

andres3 · November 2021

imidazol97 said:
The cutting in and out with rapid acceleration in between is a result of high horsepower. A 50 horsepower VW Bettle wasn't driving like that back in the 60s, and they were some of the most egregious in cutting into small spaces in traffic back then.

The aggressive driving I see usually involves tailgating by a ~~car~~ driver who should just go around on the right or another lane if they think the first driver isn't going fast enough for them. Instead there's a power play of tailgating until they "make" the offending driver pull over.

The worst I saw recently was a low black Jaguar sedan apparently in a hurry to get somewhere tailgating a car with maybe 10 feet between them. I suspect the Jaguar driver had great faith in his automatic braking system were the driver in front to slow down rapidly because a deer or dog ran out in front of them on the interstate that day. Speed limit 65, and the offending driver was going about 70 in left lane of 3 then 4 as the lanes increased.

How about the guy in the passing lane move out of the way before needlessly impeding traffic and causing the prolonged tailgating? It's inherently more dangerous to pass on the right so it is to be avoided if possible.

There was a Prius in the left lane going too slow for my liking today during my morning commute on 8
West (different destination than normal today). He had no business being there in the first place, 3 of the lanes to their right were immediately and in the near vicinity clear (hence they weren't passing anyone anyway). For some reason they did the right thing and got out of the way moving right one lane fairly quickly after impeding me only for a few seconds, but then decided that 75 wasn't fast enough and proceeded to tailgate me in the far left passing lane deliberately at 95 MPH....in a Prius. Why is 95 MPH OK now, but 75 was OK a minute ago?

I just don't get the mental disease that causes this.

andres3 · November 2021

oldfarmer50 said:

qbrozen said:
Well, ACTUALLY limiting performance and merely putting blinders on are not even remotely the same.

Well, for many, perception is reality so taking away someone’s “hey look, I’m doing 150!” bragging rights is the equivalent of reducing the car’s ability to achieve that speed. That was the idea behind not including the numbers on the speedometer.

I’m not saying I agree with that line of thought but that was a rationale.

That rationale is irrational.

andres3 · November 2021

oldfarmer50 said:

qbrozen said:

@oldfarmer50 said:

Well, for many, perception is reality so taking away someone’s “hey look, I’m doing 150!” bragging rights is the equivalent of reducing the car’s ability to achieve that speed. That was the idea behind not including the numbers on the speedometer.

I’m not saying I agree with that line of thought but that was a rationale.

Interesting. I could see that working in some cases.

I don’t know how well it worked overall. There was a slight decrease in deaths during the 80s but was that due to lower numbers on the speedometer or because 80s cars were just so crappy and couldn’t go fast? Who knows.

1984 Corvette speedometer.

There was a decrease in fatalities in the 90's when they stopped doing the foolish 85 MPH speedometers so the IIHS or anyone suggesting the idea worked would have some explaining to do.

Interestingly, the 90's is also when we benefitted from having the deadly 55 MPH speed limit mandate lifted.

snakeweasel · November 2021

tjc78 said:

@qbrozen said:

Because they need a car and no way in hell will they afford one with the (small) equity check and late/no payments in their history?

Same result either way, but buying time with the repo I suppose

Nope, having the repo on record makes things that much worse.

stickguy · November 2021

oldfarmer50 said:

kyfdx said:

oldfarmer50 said:

qbrozen said:
Because they need a car and no way in hell will they afford one with the (small) equity check and late/no payments in their history?

I never got that head in the sand planning.
You just haven't been poor enough...
Au contraire’. I’ve been poorer than poor. I’ve been land rich and dirt poor. That’s when you have no money but you’re not eligible for any government assistance because you own land.

I still didn’t get to the point of car repos.

well, if you only pay cash for your hoopties, nobody can repo it.

snakeweasel · November 2021

oldfarmer50 said:

kyfdx said:

oldfarmer50 said:

qbrozen said:
Because they need a car and no way in hell will they afford one with the (small) equity check and late/no payments in their history?

I never got that head in the sand planning.
You just haven't been poor enough...
Au contraire’. I’ve been poorer than poor. I’ve been land rich and dirt poor. That’s when you have no money but you’re not eligible for any government assistance because you own land.

I still didn’t get to the point of car repos.

I used to have distant relatives that were land rich but dirt poor. But in the last 50 years the metro Chicagoland area expanded into their farmland now they own very little land but have lots of cash.

andres3 · November 2021

tjc78 said:
Horrific accident and I hope he gets justice, however, GM did nothing wrong here. The driver is the only one to blame.

As others mentioned, alcohol was at play here according to media reports (and common sense). Chances are the Corvette does have a speed governor anyway, negating the argument GM needs to add one.

andres3 · November 2021

qbrozen said:
Oh, HELLLL NO should GM even be mentioned! The repercussions around the automotive world would be devastating. Imagine a world where nothing could go above 75. And next we realize that not just speed kills but so does acceleration. So now we need to make sure every driver has ample time to male decisions, and getting up to 60 in less than 10 secs just isn’t enough time should road conditions not allow or an obstacle is suddenly thrown in your way. Oh, and then there is a size and weight factor. Oh my! The public can’t possibly keep control of a vehicle heavier than 2 tons. No, no, no. Nobody needs anything beyond a Prius. Oh, man, and now what do we do with all of these vehicles that already exist? Can’t leave those in public hands. Gonna have to form a new government agency and give them the authority to go around kicking in doors and seizing offending vehicles by force. What a world, indeed!

You forgot you'd have to ban alcoholic beverages too....oh wait, that was tried before too!

snakeweasel · November 2021

andres3 said:

snakeweasel said:

bwia said:
It's not about me. If I had the choice I would be riding a horse. And come to think of it, are horses allowed on the expressway? I didn't think so!
No one is keeping you off a horse. Who cares if they are not allowed on the expressway, you can go just as fast on a side street as you could on an expressway. FWIW while I was still free and single I hung out at a bar walking distance from my house, there was a regular there that actually rode his horse to the bar. This was in the western suburbs of Chicago, spitting distance from O'Hare.
bwia said:
When it comes to speed, I'm not totally against it. But there has to be some limits, for regular passengers and for the speed demons who worship at the alter of no speed limits on weekends on designated roadways and speedway.

In the 1970s when we were advocating seat belt use and DUI enforcement some people called us idealists and kooks. Today, most drivers buckle up, if not from fear of losing their driving privileges but not have to face up to innocent eyes their vulnerable young children sitting in booster seats.
When it comes to seat belt laws I think that there is a little hypocrisy with them especially in states like Illinois. When I get in a car surrounded by a steel cage with crumple zones designed to protect the occupants and equipped with air bags and other safety devices to protect occupants you can get a ticket for not wearing a seat belt. But get on a motorcycle with none of that and exposed to everything the only legal thing you have to wear is eye protection. No helmets or any other safety gear is required.
bwia said:
Thank you for NOT listening.

Did you say something?
If your horse ran super-humanly....errr... super-horsey fast, you might be legal in some States on the expressway.

Seat belt laws also exist to keep the driver in the driver's position able to control their own vehicle so they can't use the "but I was in the back seat after I got bumped" argument for mowing pedestrians down needlessly, when if they were buckled, they could have easily applied the brakes.

If I had a horse fast enough for the expressway I wouldn't have it on the expressway I would have it at the (Horse) race track.

snakeweasel · November 2021

andres3 said:

imidazol97 said:
The cutting in and out with rapid acceleration in between is a result of high horsepower. A 50 horsepower VW Bettle wasn't driving like that back in the 60s, and they were some of the most egregious in cutting into small spaces in traffic back then.

The aggressive driving I see usually involves tailgating by a ~~car~~ driver who should just go around on the right or another lane if they think the first driver isn't going fast enough for them. Instead there's a power play of tailgating until they "make" the offending driver pull over.

The worst I saw recently was a low black Jaguar sedan apparently in a hurry to get somewhere tailgating a car with maybe 10 feet between them. I suspect the Jaguar driver had great faith in his automatic braking system were the driver in front to slow down rapidly because a deer or dog ran out in front of them on the interstate that day. Speed limit 65, and the offending driver was going about 70 in left lane of 3 then 4 as the lanes increased.

How about the guy in the passing lane move out of the way before needlessly impeding traffic and causing the prolonged tailgating? It's inherently more dangerous to pass on the right so it is to be avoided if possible.

There was a Prius in the left lane going too slow for my liking today during my morning commute on 8
West (different destination than normal today). He had no business being there in the first place, 3 of the lanes to their right were immediately and in the near vicinity clear (hence they weren't passing anyone anyway). For some reason they did the right thing and got out of the way moving right one lane fairly quickly after impeding me only for a few seconds, but then decided that 75 wasn't fast enough and proceeded to tailgate me in the far left passing lane deliberately at 95 MPH....in a Prius. Why is 95 MPH OK now, but 75 was OK a minute ago?

I just don't get the mental disease that causes this.

99% of the time I see something like that the guy in the passing lane getting out of the way won't do much good as the guy in the passing lane is right behind another guy and so on and so forth for the next 50 miles.

snakeweasel · November 2021

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

qbrozen said:

@oldfarmer50 said:

Well, for many, perception is reality so taking away someone’s “hey look, I’m doing 150!” bragging rights is the equivalent of reducing the car’s ability to achieve that speed. That was the idea behind not including the numbers on the speedometer.

I’m not saying I agree with that line of thought but that was a rationale.

Interesting. I could see that working in some cases.

I don’t know how well it worked overall. There was a slight decrease in deaths during the 80s but was that due to lower numbers on the speedometer or because 80s cars were just so crappy and couldn’t go fast? Who knows.

1984 Corvette speedometer.

There was a decrease in fatalities in the 90's when they stopped doing the foolish 85 MPH speedometers so the IIHS or anyone suggesting the idea worked would have some explaining to do.

Interestingly, the 90's is also when we benefitted from having the deadly 55 MPH speed limit mandate lifted.

The number of deaths is somewhat misleading as it doesn't take into consideration the number of miles driven. Give me deaths per X number of miles.

andres3 · November 2021

snakeweasel said:

qbrozen said:
Oh, HELLLL NO should GM even be mentioned! The repercussions around the automotive world would be devastating. Imagine a world where nothing could go above 75. And next we realize that not just speed kills but so does acceleration. So now we need to make sure every driver has ample time to male decisions, and getting up to 60 in less than 10 secs just isn’t enough time should road conditions not allow or an obstacle is suddenly thrown in your way. Oh, and then there is a size and weight factor. Oh my! The public can’t possibly keep control of a vehicle heavier than 2 tons. No, no, no. Nobody needs anything beyond a Prius. Oh, man, and now what do we do with all of these vehicles that already exist? Can’t leave those in public hands. Gonna have to form a new government agency and give them the authority to go around kicking in doors and seizing offending vehicles by force. What a world, indeed!

Wait, it's coming. From what I understand they are talking in Europe about setting up a system where the car reads the speed limit sign and automatically limits the speed of the vehicle based on the speed limit or does something irritating (like shaking the steering wheel or sounding a buzzer) until you slow down.

Sounds like an easy feature for a tuner to defeat.

andres3 · November 2021

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

imidazol97 said:
The cutting in and out with rapid acceleration in between is a result of high horsepower. A 50 horsepower VW Bettle wasn't driving like that back in the 60s, and they were some of the most egregious in cutting into small spaces in traffic back then.

The aggressive driving I see usually involves tailgating by a ~~car~~ driver who should just go around on the right or another lane if they think the first driver isn't going fast enough for them. Instead there's a power play of tailgating until they "make" the offending driver pull over.

The worst I saw recently was a low black Jaguar sedan apparently in a hurry to get somewhere tailgating a car with maybe 10 feet between them. I suspect the Jaguar driver had great faith in his automatic braking system were the driver in front to slow down rapidly because a deer or dog ran out in front of them on the interstate that day. Speed limit 65, and the offending driver was going about 70 in left lane of 3 then 4 as the lanes increased.

How about the guy in the passing lane move out of the way before needlessly impeding traffic and causing the prolonged tailgating? It's inherently more dangerous to pass on the right so it is to be avoided if possible.

There was a Prius in the left lane going too slow for my liking today during my morning commute on 8
West (different destination than normal today). He had no business being there in the first place, 3 of the lanes to their right were immediately and in the near vicinity clear (hence they weren't passing anyone anyway). For some reason they did the right thing and got out of the way moving right one lane fairly quickly after impeding me only for a few seconds, but then decided that 75 wasn't fast enough and proceeded to tailgate me in the far left passing lane deliberately at 95 MPH....in a Prius. Why is 95 MPH OK now, but 75 was OK a minute ago?

I just don't get the mental disease that causes this.
99% of the time I see something like that the guy in the passing lane getting out of the way won't do much good as the guy in the passing lane is right behind another guy and so on and so forth for the next 50 miles.

100% of the time yielding to the right for faster traffic to pass left is inherently good already and safer for everyone out on the roadway, regardless of what happens the next mile, or the next 50 miles, you are starting from a better position.

andres3 · November 2021

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

qbrozen said:

@oldfarmer50 said:

Well, for many, perception is reality so taking away someone’s “hey look, I’m doing 150!” bragging rights is the equivalent of reducing the car’s ability to achieve that speed. That was the idea behind not including the numbers on the speedometer.

I’m not saying I agree with that line of thought but that was a rationale.

Interesting. I could see that working in some cases.

I don’t know how well it worked overall. There was a slight decrease in deaths during the 80s but was that due to lower numbers on the speedometer or because 80s cars were just so crappy and couldn’t go fast? Who knows.

1984 Corvette speedometer.

There was a decrease in fatalities in the 90's when they stopped doing the foolish 85 MPH speedometers so the IIHS or anyone suggesting the idea worked would have some explaining to do.

Interestingly, the 90's is also when we benefitted from having the deadly 55 MPH speed limit mandate lifted.

The number of deaths is somewhat misleading as it doesn't take into consideration the number of miles driven. Give me deaths per X number of miles.

Agreed that would be more informational.

4th column https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year

andres3 · November 2021

jmonroe1 said:

bwia said:
No. No. No! She didn't have to die this way. This is perhaps the most horrible death a person will ever encounter in her life time -- being burnt alive. Last Tuesday a Toyota RAV4 driven by 23 old Tina Tintor, a woman, coming from work at 4:00 am. was struck from behind by a speeding Corvette Stingray traveling at 156 mph on the Las Vegas strip. Police say the Tintor’s car caught fire, and both she and a dog died from a result of being trapped.

The Corvette was being ~~piloted~~ driven by 22 year old Henry Ruggs III, a former Las Vegas Raiders football player, who suffered minor physical injuries. His passenger girlfriend was also unhurt. There is a lot of blame to go around but none will bring back senseless death of Tina Tintor. Other than Rugg's gross negligence, GM should bare a share of the blame by allowing the Corvette to drive at these unconsionable speeds without being equipped with a speed governor.

That surely was a horrible accident that should not have happened. However, GM is not at fault. Blaming GM is akin to blaming knife manufacturers because people cut themselves using their knives and hammer manufacturers because people whack their fingers.

jmonroe

Way to avoid the political gun debate by going straight to knives! I see correlations between the gun debate and speed/traffic safety debates.

snakeweasel · November 2021

andres3 said:

tjc78 said:
Horrific accident and I hope he gets justice, however, GM did nothing wrong here. The driver is the only one to blame.
As others mentioned, alcohol was at play here according to media reports (and common sense). Chances are the Corvette does have a speed governor anyway, negating the argument GM needs to add one.

I don't think that the Corvette has a speed governor, I think it's top speed is pushing 200 MPH but not reaching it.

qbrozen · November 2021

andres3 said:

The number of deaths is somewhat misleading as it doesn't take into consideration the number of miles driven. Give me deaths per X number of miles.

Agreed that would be more informational.

4th column https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year

Even more misleading is that we can't possibly account for increased safety of passenger compartments over the years. What used to kill you at 50 mph now takes 150 mph (I'm just throwing numbers out there, no actual scientific backing).

andres3 · November 2021

sda said:
@andres3, I found this in the FCP site, giving a summary of A4s and what to buy. It seems you really experienced a fluke.
"The early 2.0t EA888 Gen 2 TSI engine powering the 2009-2011 Audi A4 had a significant oil consumption issue. It was serious enough that Audi had to extend warranties and devise several stages of fixes for the issue, starting with new PCV valve oil/air separators and going as far as complete new rod and piston sets. As you can imagine, the quality and thoroughness of the work completed at Audi dealerships across the country can vary greatly. If you're unlucky enough to pick up an A4 which has an oil consumption issue and it's still within the warranty period, but Audi already has the fix listed as being completed, you're out of luck. Replacement engines are expensive and can be hard to find, and because so many A4s had consumption issues, you can't really trust any of the engines available at salvage yards; they can be as bad or worse as the one you need to replace.

The 3.0T engine, as supplied in the Audi S4, has proved to be quite reliable. Outside of some basic issues with leaking water pumps and thermostats on very early cars, the 3.0t doesn't suffer from major issues such as the oil consumption problem seen on the 2.0t. The supercharger unit is generally more reliable than the turbo on the 2.0t. The 3.0t has no significant problems with timing chain wear or chain tensioner failures, which have been more common on the 2.0t. When shopping between the A4 and S4, you can be far more confident that the engine in the S4 is a solid unit, while the A4 2.0t may be a bit more of an unknown. "

I'll take oil consumption issues any day and twice on Sunday over non-functioning engine. Bad luck!

snakeweasel · November 2021

andres3 said:

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

imidazol97 said:
The cutting in and out with rapid acceleration in between is a result of high horsepower. A 50 horsepower VW Bettle wasn't driving like that back in the 60s, and they were some of the most egregious in cutting into small spaces in traffic back then.

The aggressive driving I see usually involves tailgating by a ~~car~~ driver who should just go around on the right or another lane if they think the first driver isn't going fast enough for them. Instead there's a power play of tailgating until they "make" the offending driver pull over.

The worst I saw recently was a low black Jaguar sedan apparently in a hurry to get somewhere tailgating a car with maybe 10 feet between them. I suspect the Jaguar driver had great faith in his automatic braking system were the driver in front to slow down rapidly because a deer or dog ran out in front of them on the interstate that day. Speed limit 65, and the offending driver was going about 70 in left lane of 3 then 4 as the lanes increased.

How about the guy in the passing lane move out of the way before needlessly impeding traffic and causing the prolonged tailgating? It's inherently more dangerous to pass on the right so it is to be avoided if possible.

There was a Prius in the left lane going too slow for my liking today during my morning commute on 8
West (different destination than normal today). He had no business being there in the first place, 3 of the lanes to their right were immediately and in the near vicinity clear (hence they weren't passing anyone anyway). For some reason they did the right thing and got out of the way moving right one lane fairly quickly after impeding me only for a few seconds, but then decided that 75 wasn't fast enough and proceeded to tailgate me in the far left passing lane deliberately at 95 MPH....in a Prius. Why is 95 MPH OK now, but 75 was OK a minute ago?

I just don't get the mental disease that causes this.
99% of the time I see something like that the guy in the passing lane getting out of the way won't do much good as the guy in the passing lane is right behind another guy and so on and so forth for the next 50 miles.
100% of the time yielding to the right for faster traffic to pass left is inherently good already and safer for everyone out on the roadway, regardless of what happens the next mile, or the next 50 miles, you are starting from a better position.

Unfortunately there are times when traffic volume is so great that it fills up every available inch of space in each lane. This makes moving over for faster traffic impossible and inefficient. Ever hear of rush hour?

andres3 · November 2021

qbrozen said:

andres3 said:

The number of deaths is somewhat misleading as it doesn't take into consideration the number of miles driven. Give me deaths per X number of miles.

Agreed that would be more informational.

4th column https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year
Even more misleading is that we can't possibly account for increased safety of passenger compartments over the years. What used to kill you at 50 mph now takes 150 mph (I'm just throwing numbers out there, no actual scientific backing).

A good point. Medical advances don't really happen overnight. Safety advances in automobiles, even if they all happened in a certain year would take decades to take over the whole Nation's fleet.

However, speed limit changes, did seem to be taken care of fairly quickly in a matter of months (not days or weeks in a BIG State like CA).

andres3 · November 2021

mjfloyd1 said:

@bwia said:

It's not about me. If I had the choice I would be riding a horse. And come to think of it, are horses allowed on the expressway? I didn't think so!

When it comes to speed, I'm not totally against it. But there has to be some limits, for regular passengers and for the speed demons who worship at the alter of no speed limits on weekends on designated roadways and speedway.

In the 1970s when we were advocating seat belt use and DUI enforcement some people called us idealists and kooks. Today, most drivers buckle up, if not from fear of losing their driving privileges but not have to face up to innocent eyes their vulnerable young children sitting in booster seats.

Thank you for NOT listening.

Save a horse. Ride a cowgirl

But seriously, there is personal responsibility.

The problem with personal responsibility seems to be when people in power with lots of money become the ones responsible for something bad that happens.

There does seem to be the old geezer phenomenon where at some point in age someone says "those damn speeders......." Even if they themselves were a speeder at a younger age....

oldfarmer50 · November 2021

stickguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

kyfdx said:

oldfarmer50 said:

qbrozen said:
Because they need a car and no way in hell will they afford one with the (small) equity check and late/no payments in their history?

I never got that head in the sand planning.
You just haven't been poor enough...
Au contraire’. I’ve been poorer than poor. I’ve been land rich and dirt poor. That’s when you have no money but you’re not eligible for any government assistance because you own land.

I still didn’t get to the point of car repos.
well, if you only pay cash for your hoopties, nobody can repo it.

Exactly, and I drove some real hoopties back then. I suppose unexpected poverty can occur but otherwise ruining your credit to squeeze a few more weeks of car usage is illogical. If you’re broke buy the hooptie to begin with.

oldfarmer50 · November 2021

andres3 said:

tjc78 said:
Horrific accident and I hope he gets justice, however, GM did nothing wrong here. The driver is the only one to blame.
As others mentioned, alcohol was at play here according to media reports (and common sense). Chances are the Corvette does have a speed governor anyway, negating the argument GM needs to add one.

I can’t find any information indicating that it does. Top speed is variously listed as 182 or 190.

roadburner · November 2021

Driving back from Hilton Head the ti kept creeping above 85 mph- in spite of 5th gear being 1:1. At 80-85 mph I was passing about the same number of cars that passed me. Most drivers seemed to be paying attention.

mjfloyd1 · November 2021

@andres3 said:
The problem with personal responsibility seems to be when people in power with lots of money become the ones responsible for something bad that happens.

There does seem to be the old geezer phenomenon where at some point in age someone says "those damn speeders......." Even if they themselves were a speeder at a younger age....

No. Personal responsibility as in each person is responsible for their own actions.

ronsteve · November 2021

Michaell said:

tjc78 said:

@sda said:

My wife and daughter drove to Atlanta last weekend to attend a concert. I consider my wife a very competent driver. She is in tune with her vehicle, her surroundings, drives defensively, stays in the right lane as much as possible but is no slow poke. She commented on her return that the drive was fairly stressful as many drivers lacked any regard for others and dangerously cut in and out of traffic without any warning, no driving etiquette what so ever.

My wife told me the other day she basically hates getting behind the wheel anymore. Really surprised me, as she always enjoyed driving. I think the whole WFH thing has changed her.

I’d wager since March of 2020 she hasn’t driven 2000 miles.

I think my wife has driven less than 200 miles in that time frame.

My wife's Jetta has barely racked up 5000 miles in that time, mostly from me driving it when I work nights or weekends.

ronsteve · November 2021

snakeweasel said:

@oldfarmer50 said:

“ The repercussions around the automotive world would be devastating. Imagine a world where nothing could go above 75.”

That’s been tried already. Remember in the 80s when even a Corvette speedometer only went up to 85? If I recall correctly, people still drove like maniacs, just without knowing how fast they were going.

IIRC all speedometers only went up to 85 MPH. I knew a couple of people that had charted out estimated speed based on RPM's for speeds greater than 85MPH.

From 1978-1984 (give or take a year) it was a federal requirement that the speedo went to 85 mph and had 55 somehow highlighted. I think a big part of the reduction in deaths was fewer passenger miles traveled!

venture · November 2021

roadburner said:
Driving back from Hilton Head the ti kept creeping above 85 mph- in spite of 5th gear being 1:1. At 80-85 mph I was passing about the same number of cars that passed me. Most drivers seemed to be paying attention.

Well, that's pretty amazing. That doesn't happen often.

explorerx4 · November 2021

At 2 AM, of course, the CO detector started giving off 5 beeps.
I got up, put in a new battery and plugged it back in. 5 beeps again.
Tested the battery and it was good.
Left the detector downstairs, opened the window a bit more and tried to go back to sleep.
This morning, I looked up what 5 beeps meant and it is the End of Life(the detector) warning.
Saw the Lowes had a 2 pack of the same one, but when I went to the actual store sites, they didn't have any.
Will have to spend some time looking for 1 or 2 new ones.

driver100 · November 2021

@explorerx4
Funny how they always seem to go off in the middle of the night.
Someone should invent one that only goes off during the day time.

driver100 · November 2021

You have probably seen this commercial for the Mercedes AA Class Battery powered car, if not, here it is, well worth seeing;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k1tbf8muMc

Sandman6472 · November 2021

Just checked my records, seems like I'll be at around 3K miles for the year ending on November 30th. Not surprised really as the year before with being furloughed those 86 days, I drove around 2.75K miles. I work super close to home and even when I had that second gig, it was even closer. For the most part, stay in an area about 10 miles, give or take around the house, and don't use the car daily anymore. Even though the price of petrol has risen this year, I don't fill up much really, as I'm driving only about 40 miles per week. Do tend to keep the tank almost full though so when it gets to around a half tank, I put some more in. Maybe stop in at the pump every 3 weeks or so now. Definitely using less petrol so think I'd be a good candidate for an EV vehicle going forward. Just not quite ready to make that plunge yet to be honest. The infrastructure needs to have more charging locations for me to even consider switching plus the vehicle prices need to be more reasonable.

stickguy · November 2021

Your usage is absolutely textbook ideal for an EV. And if you like instant torque and no lag from a stop, that’s the way to go. Just add the outlet in the garage to home charge. Might only need to do that once a month!

sda · November 2021

driver100 said:
You have probably seen this commercial for the Mercedes AA Class Battery powered car, if not, here it is, well worth seeing;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k1tbf8muMc

That's great, lol

Sandman6472 · November 2021

Stick, you are so right on about my current situation. Just wish there was an affordable EV with decent range. Not sure I'd be happy with a Nissan Leaf to be honest. And since I've never leased and only financed once, not even sure what monthly payment I'd be comfortable with. And then, at the end of the lease, one walks away with no vehicle. So much to consider going forward but luckily I have the time to study all my options.
One thing I do know, two actually, I like the way the few EV's I've driven run, that instant acceleration is a blast, and with no turbo lag, I'm totally in. And always being under a manufacturer's warranty, gotta love that. Might have to replace a set of tires but depending on the length of the lease, might not even be an issue. Hoping that once this chip issue is solved and dealers again have large inventories of vehicles, prices for leases become reasonable again.
Will definitely have to educate myself on how to figure out if the lease terms make it a good or bad deal. But I know I'll be able to get lots of good advice in these forums to make the best decision. Just need to get over the idea that buying a vehicle is always the best way to go. Maybe trying a lease and if I really like the vehicle, buying it outright could work. Just a lot of things to think about going forward. Glad I'm not in a rush just to have something!

stickguy · November 2021

Hyundai has some nice EVs. Kona included.

explorerx4 · November 2021

Depending on how I went to the Lowes website, the either had a lot of CO detectors or didn't.
Went to the store, they didn't have the 2 pack exact replacement I was looking for, plug in with battery backup, but they did have singles, so I bought 2 of those.

mlevine · November 2021

The way I look at lease terms is to find out the money factor and residual. High money factor and low residual not a good lease. Low money factor and high residual probably a good lease. The high money factor with high residual or low money factor with low residual must analyze further.

stickguy · November 2021

The real swing point on the lease is incentives. If there are lease incentives that at least cover inception (lease specific) fees, then really just left with selling price to compare to a purchase.

Break it down to selling price (purchase vs cap cost + lease fees), and finance rate (APR vs. MF), and comparing apples to apples over the term of ownership.

Only wildcard is what it’s worth later (depreciation vs. residual). So leasing has to be better, since residual is fixed but depreciation is infinite to 100%!

fintail · November 2021

Those earlier gen EVs became obsolete fast!

SNL commercial parodies can be pretty good, notice they even matched the MB corporate font. They had some good car commercial parodies in the past, too:

~1986:

https://youtu.be/F02P2JO7yfc

driver100 said:
You have probably seen this commercial for the Mercedes AA Class Battery powered car, if not, here it is, well worth seeing;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k1tbf8muMc

stickguy · November 2021

Not much different than an early Honda if you break down the battery packs far enough!

Sandman6472 · November 2021

Just looked at a Hyundai Kona N-Line and loos to be interesting though a bit pricey. Does have the Harman Kardan audio system with the Infinity speakers and the sun/moon roof so right there, I'm interested. Found a gray over gray one at the dealer across the street and a white over black at the dealer in Miami where we got the kid's Accent last year though there's a $400 charge for the special white paint. But spending around $30K for a Hyundai that's probably $5K cheaper when things are in sync is a bit much. But, might go for a test drive just for kicks to see how well it drives. Does have the 1.6t engine which I also like and the size is very doable. And of course, love the Hyundai long warranty. Our 2020 Accent has been a flawless vehicle up till now and expect it to continue being flawless, just pray that no one else hits it!
We've had good luck with our Hyundai products, I blame the Tucson fiasco on me as it was a good vehicle, I just didn't like the size. And the Hyundai's/Kia's I drive at work all drive nicely. Just never thought about owning/leasing a Kona so really need to take it for an educational test drive to see if I can lve with one as my d d the next few years!

fintail · November 2021

Some cars kept the 85 for much longer, too. I am pretty sure I recall my mom's 93 Taurus had an 85 mph speedo, and maybe her Tempo or the Horizon my dad had when I was a little kid only went to 80. I think all Euro cars ditched the 85 as soon as they could, around 1984 - I think by 1986 the S-class was displaying 160 (which of course isn't possible).

ronsteve said:

snakeweasel said:

@oldfarmer50 said:

“ The repercussions around the automotive world would be devastating. Imagine a world where nothing could go above 75.”

That’s been tried already. Remember in the 80s when even a Corvette speedometer only went up to 85? If I recall correctly, people still drove like maniacs, just without knowing how fast they were going.

IIRC all speedometers only went up to 85 MPH. I knew a couple of people that had charted out estimated speed based on RPM's for speeds greater than 85MPH.

From 1978-1984 (give or take a year) it was a federal requirement that the speedo went to 85 mph and had 55 somehow highlighted. I think a big part of the reduction in deaths was fewer passenger miles traveled!

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