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-Greg
They do have DRLs and a 2-speed rear wiper, and the cargo cover is now standard. That's about it.
Bob
Fortunately we own one of the only refineries capable of making gasoline from it in Pinebend, Minnesota. We even make low-sulfur gas from it, marketed under the Blue Planet brand name.
Canadiens could only be perfectly self-sufficient if more of their cars ran on diesel. ;-)
-Colin
Bob
http://www.edmunds.com/news/feature/vehicles/42976/article.html
I think the biggest threat to SUV sales will come from the flood of AWD cars that are coming to market in the next few years. If you can have the safety, handling and gas economy of a AWD car why buy a large gas sucking tippy SUV.
Joe
2 reasons actually: Space and towing.
There have been AWD vans on the market for years, but they haven't taken a major or even minor portion of the SUV sales away. You can't compare the comfort and interior space of an AWD sedan to that of an AWD SUV.
Forester/OB is a perfect example of towing. You can't tow anything over 1000lbs w/o brakes, and nothing over 2000lbs period behind these vehicles. That excludes just about any trailer since no trailers below 3000 or 3500lbs come with brakes, and even if you load up a 2000lb trailer with brakes, you would significantly be unable to put much as far as passengers and cargo inside the vehicle because the GVWR is eaten up partially by the trailer.
I'm a prime example of a lost sale to SUVs...
Had my deposit ready to go for an '00 Legacy GT Wagon. Test drove it and it was great. Then I test drove it with 4 of my closest paisans... Car couldn't get out of it's own way. Now if I loaded it up in addition to the people, camping gear in the cargo area to the limit + a 2000lb boat trailer, and the car would not move an inch. I ended up with a 2000 Trooper instead @ $2500-$3000 more than the Legacy GT...
-mike
Why didn't you get a REAL suv if that was your concern?
-Colin
Hopefully this will force people into more efficient, car-based SUVs. It basically already is.
Also, we're going to see hybrid SUVs, like the Durango V6+electric. SUVs are cash cows so they aren't going away any time soon.
Meanwhile, nothing in my fleet gets less than 20mpg in the city on regular octane gas. So I'm really not that vulnerable.
Bob: I think they were just speculating about that full-size truck. The ST-X is definitely a compact, and a full-sizer would very likely mean a GM platform. They already have the C3 will all-wheel drive, so I don't see a need for a Subie version.
-juice
As to the GMC C-3 AWD: There are many people who would not buy that vehicle, or any American pickup. Witness the success of the Toyota Tundra. So (and I've said this before), a full-size, 5.0 H-8 (two 2.5's H-4s siamesed together), with a dual-range AWD is maybe not that far of a stretch—in perhaps 5 years or so. Subaru is testing the market with STX. If it proves successful, who knows... Besides, a person looking a the STX would more than likely not be cross-shopping a full-size truck. So, IMO, there's room for both.
Bob
By then the bigger 2005 SUW will be out, so the platform is ready, but should they use that or the GM one?
Depends. For light duty, recreational-type duty, the Soob platform would work. But not for work or heavy-duty stuff - that could be left to GM any way.
So give it the H6 with a 5 speed auto, tranny cooler, beefy brakes, 1600 lb payload, 3500 lbs towing. Big question is, what body style? Regular or Crew cab?
Both - mid gate style? Definitely.
-juice
If it were sized like the Tundra, which to me is the perfect size for Harry and Harriet homeowner, it would be a smash hit. I think the towing would have to be upwards of 6000# or better. The Tundra, properly equipped, can tow over 7000#.
Bob
More important is the payload, though. Especially with the IFS/IRS, they need to figure out how to haul a big load.
-juice
For those who think this is a nutty, off-the-wall idea, that Subaru (being a small company) has no business pursuing; I disagree.
The full-size pickup market in this country is huge. The top two vehicle sellers for years have been the Ford F-150 and Chevy Silverado. The Dodge Ram is also in the top 10. There's much room for more choice and diversity here.
Subaru, now with GM's deep pockets, should seriously be looking into this market.
Bob
-juice
Bottom line: if it "works," looks good, and is priced right, it can't help but be a hit.
Bob
Ross
GM would buy 20% of Subaru.
Porsche would introduce an SUV.
Subaru would offer a vehicle such as the WRX to the USA.
Ford would own Land Rover.
I could go on, but you get the point. 5 years from now, anything is possible.
Bob
GM & Subaru are collaborating on a larger SUV platform, which is to debut around 2005. There could very well be other spin-offs of this platform, including a full-size pickup. GM also has plenty of factory space that could be be put to better use.
Owners of the soon-to-be-released STX pickup, may very well want to upgrade (around 2006 or so) to a larger Subaru pickup. It's a well known fact that when Toyota designed the Tundra, they were anticipating most of their customers would come from owners of other (small) import trucks (and cars). They targeted those owners, more so than traditional Ford/Chevy/Dodge truck owners. It looks like they were right.
Most rural homeowners, who own an acre or more of land, have some sort of SUV or pickup. Many of them also own Japanese imports such as Toyotas, Hondas, etc. That's a huge audience to tap into.
So, I don't think it's so nutty an idea at all.
Bob
They should stick with rear/mid engined sports cars.
Then again, that's what Cadillac did as they watched Lincoln (and everyone else) trample them in sales.
-juice
With 5 adults loaded to the gills + 3500lb boat trailer, I have as much or more pickup than the Legacy GT Wagon with only those same 5 adults. Also, the Trooper is a REAL suv. Just look in Sub-sahara africa and Australia: Pajero, Jackaroo, TLC... Isuzu only makes SUVs, they aren't pickups that have caps on them (AKA Suburban/Explorer/Envoy/Denali/Blazer/Durango)
-mike
Pajeros and Land Cruisers are also popular.
-juice
-Colin
That said, I'm sure a 2000 lb trailer affects the power/weight ratio on a Trooper a lot less than it does on a small vehicle (where it nearly doubles the weight you carry).
paisan probably barely notices the extra weight.
-juice
-mike
Bob
Stephen
It's funny how Isuzu now advertises "we make trucks, not cars". Anyone remember the Isuzu Impulse?
The Porsche SUV is too weird for me. It's too far a leap from their core competency.
Also drove a Marquis for a week. That's one car that I can say will seat five comfortably. Maybe that's why cops like them -- holds more prisoners.
Ken
-mike
Stephen
The Stylus was the one Paisan is thinking of, RWD or AWD, 2.0L turbo making something like 160HP.
-Colin
Cheers! (clinking Coronas)
Paul
In the 2nd generation the Impulse = Geo Storm.
The Stylus was in the 90s and was FWD only.
http://cars.com/carsapp/national/?srv=review&act=search&mkid=21&mdid=233&yr=1986&x=19&y=22
-mike
This truck could be a niche that Subaru could best fill; they've got enough ability to engineer "out of the box". Something in the size range of the Ford Ranger, Toyota Tacoma, Nissan Frontier, Chevy S-10. Maybe even slightly bigger. It would probably also sell in Australia, NZ, Britain and other countries where Subaru wagons are considered working vehicles.
I'd pay $26,000 in today's dollars for a mid-trim version of this truck when time came to replace either our '92 Legacy or '99 Forester. What do you think Patti?
John (in a world of Daves)
-wdb
I traded in my '97 Chevy Z71 for our '00 Outback wagon. Fold down the rear seats and you've pretty much got about a small pickup bed worth of space back there (albeit with a cap). Better handling, better ride, better mileage. If I truely need a truck, the U-Haul on the corner rents 'em for $19/day.
Here in Kenosha, WI (home to a Chrysler engine plant), the ratio of trucks to cars is about 65/35 IMHO.
I'd love to see a Blizten type Legacy. Bring it on!
-Brian
Who do you think the STX is aimed at? Sports car enthusiasts? I think not. I'm suggesting a vehicle that STX owners might want to grow into. They may love their STX, but find it too small, or not work-capable enough. They want the attributes of the STX, but in a larger more useful vehicle.
So, does Subaru want to risk losing those STX owners, to say... Toyota or Nissan, which has (or will have) vehicles to fit their needs? Or should Subaru have something waiting in the wings for them to move up to? If I were in Subaru's Product Planning department, the answer would be pretty clear to me.
Bob
However, I would also love to see a B4/Blitzen or other fast Legacy GT sedans (+ wagons!) in Subaru's mix, even taking priority over a truck. More in keeping with Subaru's rally / performance direction. They would make more sense to me as cars than the current Outback sedan to me. For my lifestyle and income, I'm a Forester kind of guy; just not likely to actually buy a sports car or sports sedan. If I did it'd be a 5-speed WRX in blue!
John
I absolutely agree that Subaru needs to shore up their current model lineup before debuting a larger truck. Remember, I see a full-size truck as for STX customers who want/need something larger. And...
The STX won't even debut until sometime next year. So... those (STX) customers who want/need a larger truck, are several years down the road, at the earliest—which leaves plenty of time for Subaru to fine-tune their current model lineup.
Having said that (BTW, I too am a repressed enthusiast), now is the time for Subaru to start planning for MY2006 and later, hence the discussion.
Bob
-mike
Bob
Don
Ross
I like Subaru's uniqueness - that's what brought me to our Outback! I like the fact that there aren't many out there.
However, with GM in the picture now, I'm beginning to suspect that a rebadged product (a pickup truck perhaps?) might find it's way into Subaru's lineup. Certainly would be a cheaper and faster way to go - even if it's not the right way to go.
-Brian
I can certainly see GM producing something like the concept Chevy Borrego, which is based upon Subaru running gear. However, I don't ever want to see a Subaru-badged vehicle using GM running gear.
Bob
GM is a virus, keep your checkers up to date. Don't let it spread! Just set your virus checker to only allow money through.
Regards,
Frank
http://www.subaru.co.nz/
Bob
-mike