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What about VW TDI engine?

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Comments

  • bill_1bill_1 Member Posts: 97
    Diesel are definitely a large part of the market in Europe and are present in virtually every class of car available there all the way from the sub sub-compacts like the VW Lupo and the Ford Festiva all the way to the big executive Saloons like the the BMW 7 series nd the Mercedies S class.

    Unfortunately, before we see diesels over here again, a couple of things will need to happen. 1. Car manufacturers can meet diesel demand in Europe. 2. We get the sulfer levels in our Diesel way down to the same level as European Diesel fuel, thus letting the emission control systems work properly. 3. Americans realize that what they really love is Torque not raw HP (which few people ever make full use of anyway) and that diesels produce far more torque at a given displacement than gas engines.

    Oh a final note.. From what I understand, Ford has an excellent direct injection 2.0 liter diesel that they put in the Focus in Europe : (.
  • govugovu Member Posts: 62
    mgpman--where do you get your information? Here and on other forums (Fred's TDI page) I've read that the TDI passes the emissions tests (for recap, check out the many, many posts that are archived here about California and New York emissions). My TDI has a California emissions sticker, which I understand to be (with New York) the most stringent standard. The problems aren't so much the engine as they are the fuel.

    And I don't mean to be hostile, but what does it matter if '02 is the last for this particular engine? Manufacturers update engines all the time.

    I have a hard time believing that US emissions standards are more strict than they are in Europe. If anything, I would anticipate them becoming more lax in the next four years.
  • silvertdijettasilvertdijetta Member Posts: 10
    Hi all,

    Happy owner of a TDI Jetta and love it. It's an auto and I typically get about 38 MPG in the city and 45 on straight interstate driving.

    Gotta question about where to buy Castrol 5W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil. I can't find it anywhere except for the dealer where they want $7.50 a quart.

    I can find the Castrol 5W-30 Synthetic all over the place, but no 5W-40. Any ideas on where to get this oil weight? I've seen Valvoline 5W-40 Synthetic, but want to stick with Castrol.

    To our Canadian posters, is Castrol 5W-40 more available in Canada since there are so many more TDI's there than in the states? I'd be happy to make a trip there to pick up a case.

    Thanks!
  • bill_1bill_1 Member Posts: 97
    I think the issue here are that there are different sorts of emissions standards being considered. On the one hand their are the standards for individual vehicles, and I think diesels have a seperate standard than gasoline (afterall the high sulpher content in US Diesel prevents most catalytic converters from working properly) and then there is a corporate average emissions. In other words a company could make nothing but cars that pass emmisions and still not make the average emissions requirement.
  • govugovu Member Posts: 62
    One of the reasons that I bought a diesel was the improved fuel economy. But that doesn't mean much if the high sulfur fuel is destroying the catalytic converter and producing SO2. What's the best approach--legislation, or letting the oil companies know that there are those of us willing to spend a little more (they wouldn't mind that) in return for a cleaner environment now and the promise of a better future.

    What action(s) would be most effective?
  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    I've spoken to several NY DMV personnel and gotten the same answer. The no TDIs in NY thing is due primarily to VW, and not to NY. There is an overall fleet emissions average per vehicle per manufacturer. The TDI is very clean as diesels go but not as gas engines go. If VW sold a lot of TDIs stateside, their overall emissions average would drop below the limits set by the gov't, and VW would have to pay a penalty. That is one of the reasons why TDIs are so hard to come by. Add in a NY and CA market, and VW would be in trouble. Can they remedy this? Yes, but I guess VW does not want to spend the money to get the TDIs certified now to meet stricter emissions standards. That would take some engine or exhaust mods. They may be planning to wait until they introduce the next TDI, which is why I mentioned that 02 might be the last year for the current engine.

    All new cars registered in NY must pass an emissions test to get an inspection sticker. TDIs cannot. Therefore, you can only bring them into the state used. Then NY grants you an emissions waiver and you can get your sticker. NY will not penalize you for already owning a TDI.
    This would all be moot if the TDI met NY emissions standards. It does not as a new car.

    VW has allegedly threatened its NY neighboring states dealers about selling TDIs to buyers with NY only addresses. 3 dealers told me that VW would penalize them or pull their franchise if they failed to comply. That is why some dealers don't want to know from you if you say TDI and NY in the same breath.

    Now...if gas hits 3 bucks a gallon....maybe VW will think it's worth it to get them certified. But since they sell all the diesels they can in Europe, maybe not. Anyone's guess.

    Personally....I owned a diesel Rabbit. Great engine but the car vibrated away around it. The new ones are a lot better, but you need to own them a long time to make up the difference in price and maintenance from a car that gets 25mpg or even a gas VW. Personal call. They are great machines.
  • bill_1bill_1 Member Posts: 97
    I am pretty sure the emissions system in your TDI is safe from the sulfer in the fuel, what it does limit is how clean your vehicle can ultimately be. In Europe Diesel is much cleaner with only a fraction of the sulfer content of North American Diesel. As for the best approach, well we can hope that the current corporate environment where being environmentally friendly is seen as good for business will hold. With the Bush administration in the White House, we have very little chance of the national standards for Diesel being raised (particularly since Diesel is the fuel used to ship probably 99% of everything) since that would make things harder on the Oil Business and the trucking industry.
  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    I was referring to the TDI. For example:

    1. 20k fuel system servicing. $150-200 at the dealer including an expensive VW only filter.
    2. Synthetic Oil only for oil changes.
    3. Timing belt replacement at 40k for automatic and 55k for stick, although new guidance might now have the auto at the same interval. Dealer estimate $600 in Northern VA.

    If you can do all this yourself, more power to anyone. Hate to take a VW diesel to just any old mechanic, or young one for that matter. Past experience with VW reminds me of VW only parts costing a bundle.

    Sure, diesels don't need gas type tune-ups, but they don't run maintenance free either. And I didn't even mention the potential cost if you have out of warranty problems with the turbo or the direct injection system.

    Suddenly the Pro sounds economical!
  • ekkoh99ekkoh99 Member Posts: 17
    I know, vw people read the message boards.

    There is a huge market here for diesel. gas will only get more expensive and diesel is the wave of the future in the U.S. The passat with the TDI will sell big. there are a ton of middle aged men and women that have families and are looking at something economical. honda and toyota wont bring diesel here. Big opportunity. yep.

    erik in chicago. passat 1.8t 1999
  • tajcattajcat Member Posts: 4
    Anyone do this? Referrals to Canadian dealers who'll deal w/ Americans? How did you satisfy EPA requirements - and did you have to change headlights and speedometer? I think Isotope is an awesome color, but VW is NOT sending TDI versions to us in the US... I'd be willing to vacation in British Columbia to get what I want...
  • ekkoh99ekkoh99 Member Posts: 17
    Look at sunday's NY times article on diesels. front page. may 27, 2001.

    erik
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I am going to buy a diesel vehicle either new or used. I like the Jetta TDI if VW ever gets off the dime and sends them to California. The environmentalists are all wet in their abuse of the TDI engine. Europeans know what is good and what isn't. That is why they keep the diesels for themselves.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    http://www.autonews.com/html/main/stories0723/vwdiesel723.htm


    Link to article about strong sales of TDI. TDI's should be somewhat easier to find this Fall when gasoline prices are not so high.

  • focusmatt2focusmatt2 Member Posts: 106
    Actually, Jaguar is the only company as far as I know that doesn't offer a diesel alternative to their regular engines overseas.

    If you think the 1.9 TDI is cool, you'd be surprised to know it's antiquated in terms of diesel technology. the 1.9 PD 130 as it is called, basically the same engine as the TDI but with direct injection technology (Aka Pumpe-Duse, where the PD acronym comes from). It has 130hp vs. the TDI's 90hp, and has a higher torque rating as well. They employ this engine in everything from the VW Golf to the VW Sharan (a minivan) and even the Passat. The reason I hate the US car market is because of the lack of options...You can get the Audi A6 with a 2.0 130hp engine, a 2.5diesel V6, all the way up to a 4.3 V8. So there is a model for every household and money bracket...American autos are far behind in technology, and imported autos to America lag behind their equivalents at home. Volkswagen Auto Group tends to be my favorite company due to the fact that they are taking the place of BMW and Honda in terms of innovation. They have the highest-efficiency, highest-performance diesels, effortless and economical turbocharged petrol engines, and the new W8 and W12 engines (which are VR6 engines arranged cascadingly and connected at the center with a common crankshaft). Even the 3.0 V6 Audi engine manages to crank out about 28mpg on the freeway.

    Diesel is in renaissance overseas, and some myths should be dispelled. The reason the TDI won't make the emissions standard in CA and NY is because we use very unrefined high-sulfur diesel. The TDI is an old design so it doesn't need low-sulfur diesel, but most others do. the PD engines and direct-injection engines require low-sulfur diesel, and in fact most modern turbodiesels require it. So it doesn't behoove any company to import an engine that won't run on any fuel readily available, right? Apparently low-sulfur diesel will be available in about 5 years in the US...which could mark a renaissance here.

    Low-sulfur diesel is actually as environmentally friendly or friendlier than petrol, and most European emissions standards are more stringent than the US, so you can rest assured that diesel in and of itself is clean.

    The newest diesel breakthroughs I have noticed are:

    the Pumpe-Deuse technology on VW engines
    BMW now sports a 330d, a 3-series with a 3.0 diesel inline six which has almost 300lb-ft of torque and hits 0-60 in about 8 seconds. BMW has made a commitment to being able to prove that diesel can be the fuel of a sports car. BMW has an equivalent diesel for almost every petrol engine they produce now.

    BMW also has a 2.5 inline-six diesel which is used in the 3, 5 and even 7 series overseas. It gets about 30-35mpg and puts out about 180hp and 250lb-ft, and apparently hits 0-60 in the 525d model in about 9 seconds. This is a marvelous combination of economy and performance.

    Diesel is now engine of choice for about 45% of the UK market, and ironically Honda's sales are doing poorly because Honda does not have diesel technology of their own. They have no engines to speak of that are diesel, and are having to outsource in order to catch up with the market.

    Toyota produces diesels, but apparently isn't very good at it. The next generation Echo (which is called the Yaris or Vitz overseas), is going to be built together with Peugeot, and Peugeot will supply the diesel engines while Toyota will supply it's VVT-i engines for gasoline.

    Ironically, european marques are selling well and making a profit. Apparently Renault and Peugeot have lots of change in their coffers...the Laguna midsized hatchback has a wonderful diesel and sells very well. Peugeot is very well respected in Europe and rom what i've seen, I am VERY disappointed they're not here in the US anymore. The new 307 apparently has the build quality of an Audi, the handling of a Focus, at the price of a Focus.

    But, before I go off on a tangent, just realize that the technology to support diesel is rapidly approaching that of petrol and that us Americans are in fact missing out on the most American thing of all, the freedom to choose in a consumer market.
  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    You'll get no argument here. I owned and loved a 78 Rabbit diesel and drove it for over 150,000 miles. Only complaint was the heavy and poorly designed installation of the York A/C compressor. Kept breaking mounting brackets due to the vibration. Are the PDs as expensive to maintain as the stateside TDIs in terms of synthetic oil, timing belt intervals and the like?
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    The cost for the one of the best synthetic oil for TDI is approximately $20 per oil change. The required interval for changing oil on TDI is 10,000 miles. You do the math and then do you still say that synthetic oil is expensive for TDI's.
  • focusmatt2focusmatt2 Member Posts: 106
    I am not entirely sure, but I am going to say no, because I was reading a review of three MPV's (minivans) in BBC Top Gear this month

    It was against the Chrysler Voyager with a 2.5 Turbodiesel, the Renault Espace with a 2.4 TD, compared to the Volkswagen Sharan with the 1.9 PD engine. The service interval for the Sharan was the longest, somewear near 20,000 miles, while the Voyager was a pathetic 7,000 and the Espace a more reasonable 15,000. So that appears to be one cost-saving measure. The direct-injection technology probably doesn't require shorter intervals for anything, since the basic difference between the 1.9 PD engine and the 1.9 TDI is 2 extra valves/cylinder, and the injector. So anything related to the injector probably requires special TLC.
  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    Not suggesting that buying synthetic oil will break the bank. Are you saying that VWs will run 10,000 miles without needing oil? I know that is what VW recommends. Perhaps they did that to lower the costs of the free maintenance that apparently ends with the 01 model year. I've owned 4 VWs dating back a ways and one thing they are not is miserly with oil. The 2.0 for example, is notorious for drinking oil. Besides, how many people can overcome the oil industry propaganda and wait 10k to change the oil? Many posters seem to think that anything over 3k is excessive. My point is that synthetic oil probably costs anywhere from 3-6 times that of regular oil per quart. Say you change the oil every 5,000 miles and add a quart in between. That's one quart per thousand miles of driving or 100 quarts over 100k. If a quart of synthetic oil costs $5 per (I'm assuming your price above if for the oil only and not the labor too)and a quart of regular motor oil costs $1 (many good brands can be bought for a buck on sale), that's $4.00 times 100 or $400 more for the oil alone. Big deal? Not to most. Annoyance? Can be. Add in the extra timing belt change and the more expensive fuel filter. All I am saying is that that a TDI buyer will be misleading themselves if all they look at is the mpgs with regard to cost of ownership. An Echo (used here as an example because of the similar mpg ratings for an automatic...Civic would fit here too with close enough mpgs), getting about the same mileage with an automatic as a TDI automatic, will cost less to own because it uses regular oil and has a timing chain. Is the Echo as nice a riding and equipped car as a VW? Not a chance. Should the Echo need as many repairs as the VW? Most likely not. Does the Echo cost less to insure? Bet it does. Bottom line....you get what you pay for. That's why Baskin Robbins makes 31 flavors. Now....where is the Audi A2 that can get upwards of 100 mpgs on the highway? Believe me....I think the TDIs are great and may yet get one as car #2. It's come down to that or an Echo, strictly for overall length considerations, although I am tempted to see what the BMW Mini Cooper looks like.
  • rfruthrfruth Member Posts: 630
    Are you supposed to let the turbo spin down b4 shutting off the engine? I don't own a TDI (considered a golf) just curious. Rob in Houston
  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    What are your thoughts on the automatic TDIs? I drive a lot in traffic and after hundreds of thousands of miles of shifting, I am really enjoying my Elantra GT automatic. Can the TDI engine handle auto and air OK, and is the mpg differential really huge like the window sticker says?
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Oil analysis after 10K using a quality oil such as Mobil Delvac 1 has proven that not only is 10K appropriate, it is conservative. The TDI does not have the frequency of problems with burning oil that the 2.0 seems to have. My current TDI is not burning any oil though it does not have enough miles to be good example. Other owners (20 plus) that I have personally spoke with face to face do not have any oil burning either. There are some TDI's out there that do burn oil.
    About the earlier timing belt issues, I have two options available to have timing belt changed that will cost less than $300 including parts, and one of those is a dealer service department.
    Would be nice if there was a timing chain, the timing belt is an negative aspect of the TDI that I choose to accept.
    You are 100% correct that for ownership cost the VW is not lowest cost TDI or gasoline. It is however the most excellent ownership experience for the $ that I have come across.
    I spend far too much time in my car to have one that is not going to provide enjoyment when I drive it.
    Oh, and by the way, the TDI uses 4.4qts of oil, 10 oil changes over 100K miles would be $220 or $0.0022 per mile. This is using your $5.00 per quart figure.
  • focusmatt2focusmatt2 Member Posts: 106
    I would not recommend an traditional automatic with a 1.9 TDI engine. That combination is rare to unheard of overseas in European Golfs, Boras and Polos. The only reason the 1.9 TDI has the ability to get away with being peppy is because of its revvable nature.

    An automatic would sap it as much or worse than you can experience on a 2.0.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    The automatic in the TDI is very good. The torque on the TDI is 155lb-ft at 1900RPM. This is same torque as 1.8T. The automatic with TDI provides power immediately without having to rev the motor to 4K RPM like many gas 4CYL cars.
    70 to 80 MPH is quiet and comfortable with the engine turning less than 3K RPM.
    The comment about TDI's not having auto in Europe needs to be taken in context. Almost no small cars and very few large cars in Europe that I ever saw had automatic. Europeans prefer manual. Does not indicate that an auto is not good.
    I drive a TDI auto because I drive in major stop and go traffic and the auto just makes more sense. When I drive my truck with a manual I have to row the gears like a madman.
    A/C or no A/C, auto or stick, the TDI has plenty of performance, and if it is not powerful enough, $300 to have the car "chipped" will provide more performance.
    As far as the MPG difference, yes the sticker is accurate as to the MPG differnce.
    My mileage averages 42. 37-39 MPG for the TDI with auto is common for other owners. Over 50MPG is common for manual drivers. Expect a 15% penalty on the mileage for an auto compared to manual for the TDI.
  • focusmatt2focusmatt2 Member Posts: 106
    I still would not recommend the automatic. That's just my opinion... the automatic defeats the purpose of the TDI engine. You lose gas mileage, and the revvable nature of the engine is sapped.
  • focusmatt2focusmatt2 Member Posts: 106
    the 2.5 V6 TDI, a Volkswagen auto group engine offered in the Passat, among other cars, is really what I hear to be the best diesel for a midsized car. It has 150hp and 220lb-ft of torque, which is by any stretch of the imagination a very rapid vehicle.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    First of all the only TDI engine and only passenger car diesel offered in the US or Canada is the 1.9TDI by VW. Telling me how good the 2.5 is is like sending a child into a candy store and telling them they can not touch or taste any of the candy.
    How is the revvable nature of the engine sapped? This engine develops peak torque at 1900 RPM and operates best at 2 to 3K RPM. The mileage on manual is 42 city 49 hwy and on auto is 34 city and 44 hwy. 34/44 is damn good and only the Honda Civic HX CVT at 35/40 is comparable.
    As I posted earlier I average 42 MPG with my Golf TDI auto and this is with 50/50 city and hwy driving.
    The automatic is well suited to the torquey nature of the TDI. The manual is a better choice for higher mileage seekers and also saves cost due to 60K interval for timing belt as opposed to 40K interval for auto.
    Some people prefer auto, some prefer manual, with the TDI either option is a good one.
    ? for focusmatt2 How much time have you spent with auto TDI? I can honestly say that I was doubtful about the auto before I experienced it, experience of the auto sold the auto.
  • silvertdijettasilvertdijetta Member Posts: 10
    Hey Moparbad, gotta question about the engine oil for the TDI. I can't find the Castrol 10-40W that they use at the dealer anywhere else but at the dealer. And they want an arm and a let per quart.

    My question is: Do you know of anywhere where you can buy Castrol 10-40W? No auto parts stores seem to carry it. Is it okay to switch to 10W-30 Mobil 1? Will I get better gas mileage with the lighter oil switch? What oil do you use? Where do you buy it?

    Thanks.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Recommended Oils.

    Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40

    Chevron Delo 400 5W-40

    Amsoil Series 3000 5W-30


    There are others that are OK. Forget about the dealer Castrol. It is OK but not as good as the above. Below is a link to info on where the oils can be purchased.

    http://forums.tdiclub.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=001427&p=


    I use Mobil Delvac 1 and get it at Farm and Fleet Stores for about $19/gallon.

  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    Ditto on the use of a timing chain, except that with a diesel engine it would probably be a lot noisier. What kind of mpgs can you expect on the auto with a light foot and a steady 65 cruise? 45?

    Thanks.
  • focusmatt2focusmatt2 Member Posts: 106
    My hire car in Britain (an Astra) had a 2.0 TDI engine from Vauxhall, which is similar in architecture. It had an automatic because I requested it, not knowing what i was getting into. Now i'll agree that that is not having driven a 1.9 TDI from VW with an auto, but they have similar performance figures.

    But it comes to the overall appeal of the engine. There's a reason many german carmakers outsource their automatic transmissions to GM and other American companies. I simply am recommending the manual over the automatic, because that engine/transmission combination is tried and true, and it yields better gas mileage. If you get the automatic, you are demoted to Civic HX mileage. And the Civic HX with its CVT is faster and runs on more readily available fuel and is cheaper to buy and likely cheaper to insure. Now, if VW would allow a CVT (known in Audis as Multitronic) to exist with the 1.9 TDI, I would recommend it. Sort of the best of both worlds.

    It's just that small 4-cylinder engines, especially diesel, tend to make driving a little less fun, a little less economical, and a little less peppy when mated to an auto tranny.
  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    For some strange reason, Honda puts a high economy engine in a coupe, which is most often associated with sportiness, as opposed to the sedan, where the more "frugal" or "more conservative" in this price segment might tend to trend. So...no power windows (a plus for some), no ABS, not sure about the side air bag availability, etc., etc. I doubt that the HX with CVT is that much more miserly with fuel than the EX, and for that matter, drivers wanting more response might be heavier on the gas pedal on the HX which would hurt mileage. BTW, are the HXs out yet? I was looking for them a few months ago and dealers had no clue.
  • twig93twig93 Member Posts: 38
    When my manual TDI was in for an oil change, I was given an auto TDI Golf as a loaner. Let me just say.....I would never had bought an auto TDI. It drives nothing like the manual. It is so sluggish, I wasn't even sure I was moving at first. Of course, as it warmed up it did get better, but it had no where near the power I feel I have in the manual. Go drive an auto and then a manual. You WILL notice a difference.
  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    Interesting but a bit puzzling. I test drove a TDI auto and was shocked at how quick it was off the line. My only observation was that at around 40 mph, it was nowhere as quick to accelerate from there than the manual, but it appeared to hold its own well enough.
  • focusmatt2focusmatt2 Member Posts: 106
    Perhaps it's a hit or miss kind of thing. It may also have to do with the quality of the diesel being used as fuel.
  • focusmatt2focusmatt2 Member Posts: 106
    I was running late on my way to work, and was taking a right to enter the freeway, when this dull silver Golf TDI (probably 2000 model) whizzes fast beside me and passes me up. I figured it had to be a GTI but once i noticed the rear badge, i was surprised. But that was all low-end torque ;) By the time we were on the freeway I was far past him, going about 80 while he was struggling to go 65.

    But anyway, I was impressed. I'll say it again... Pumpe-Duse VW engines NEED to come over here! I was reading an Audi AD in a magazine that explains PD technology and it sounds so exciting, like one of those Union Carbide commercials about "the exciting world of atoms".
  • natescapenatescape Member Posts: 176
    I seriously doubt it was struggling to go 65. I have had my Passat TDI (a 1996, prior generation engine and much heavier) up to 110 and it only uses 3500 RPMs to go 100...

    In fact, this car's strength is its highway cruising and passing power, IMO.
  • focusmatt2focusmatt2 Member Posts: 106
    Well it was at 65, and of course it can go faster, but the point is, it quickly lost the edge.
  • focusmatt2focusmatt2 Member Posts: 106
    By the way, your "non-existent Passat V6 TDI" does exist in some slight form ;)

    The make a 2.5 TDI V6 Audi A6 wagon, which is the same platform as the Passat (in the UK). They are reportedly going to offer this engine in the Passat, too.
  • twig93twig93 Member Posts: 38
    How do you know the car was struggling to go 65? Perhaps it was the driver who decided to drop back.
  • natescapenatescape Member Posts: 176
    They won't bring the v6 TDI to the US. We get the weakest TDI engine, and we don't get it in the Passat. It's too bad. In fact, MOST manufacturers make diesels to be sold in Europe. Sadly, Mercedes is making a twin-turbo diesel M-Class in the US to be shipped to Europe. Makes me wanna cry. ;)

    The TDI's strength isn't 0->60. It's not a drag racer. Its strength is 40->90. I'm guessing the other drive laid off, not petered out.
  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    I think diesel availability here has to do with the sulphur content in the fuel. Perhaps these other diesel engine options require the lower sulphur fuel that is not sold here.
  • focusmatt2focusmatt2 Member Posts: 106
    All I know is that the posted numbers for each engine are:

    2.0 I-4 goes 0-60 in 9.0 seconds
    1.9 turbodiesel I-4 goes 0-6 in 11.2 seconds
  • focusmatt2focusmatt2 Member Posts: 106
    If anyone read my banter a few lines up, I explained the sulfur content vs. engines. the TDI is an old engine that can run on molasses if you wanted... the new pumpe-duse engines require very refined diesel so that the spray can be high-pressure and even. That is why we won't be getting all these exciting new diesels. Future platforms and cars won't be carrying these old engines, so either we wait for our sulfur content to be refined (which is sad to be under works wthin 5-7 years) or deal with petrol.
  • natescapenatescape Member Posts: 176
    Here's hoping that when the US phases in ULSD (Ultra Low Sulfer Diesel) by 2006, manufacturers will start bringing some of their sweet disels over to the US.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    What is posted on VW website is:
    10.1 0 to 60 mph for 2.0 5 spd
    11.9 0 to 60 mph for 1.9 TDI
    Above numbers are for Golf and New Beetle

    10.5 0 to 60 mph for 2.0 5 spd
    12.4 0 to 60 mph for TDI 5 spd for the Jetta

    What difference does 1.8 seconds make, 18 MPG.
    I do not know how important 0 to 60 MPH are to most people, I did not have a specific time in mind when I bought the Golf TDI. What was important to me was if it could accelerate quickly to pass on the highway or to merge on an onramp, this it does with power to spare.
    It stops quickly with 4 wheel disc brakes and ABS too.
    I have the automatic that is slightly slower than manual and I am amazed at how well it performs in the crazy traffic that I drive in.
    My opinion is that the TDI has plenty of power.
  • focusmatt2focusmatt2 Member Posts: 106
    Well, 0-60 does matter to me. I'm not saying it should matter to everyone, of course. The only TDI of the 1.9 variety i'd drive would be a VW Bora 1.9 PD 130 Sport, which is the 130hp version.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    The 1.8T with 5spd is rated at 8.2 seconds 0 to 60 mph and the TDI 5sd is rated 11.9 seconds 0 to 60 mph for a difference of 3.7 seconds. I asked myself if it was significant? Seems like quite a difference when I look at the numbers on a computer screen.
    Then I took out my stopwatch and timed 3.7 seconds. After I stopped laughing I had a better understanding of why I am satisfied with the performance of the TDI.
  • natescapenatescape Member Posts: 176
    The best thing anyone can do is drive both...
  • erictooleyerictooley Member Posts: 13
    Just bought a 2002 NB GLS TDI this afternoon. Our dealer (Herzog-Meier in Beaverton, Oregon) has one remaining 5-speed TDI Beetle (White with the Luxury package), and at least twelve 2002 auto TDI Beetles in various colors (they also have a black 5-speed Jetta TDI). We drove the auto first...power was okay when driving smoothly, but the combination of the auto transmission and a bit of turbo lag made it hard to drive smoothly. I couldn't just punch the accelerator and get an instant response. Instead, the tranny would downshift and send the car foward with about a half-second delay. Not noticable when accelerating from 0-60, but rather nerve-wracking in traffic -- which is where an auto is supposed to be a pleasant luxury. We also noticed that when the car is stopped and in Drive, the whole car would vibrate with the engine. In Park, the vibration goes away.

    Next, we tried the TDI 5-speed. Felt quite different than the auto TDI. For one thing, we didn't notice any lag when stabbing the accelerator. For another, the engine felt smoother, especially at a stop with the clutch in -- no vibrating like the auto. Certainly not as fast as the 1.8T, but quick enough. Cheaper to feed and insure, too (and fewer stops for fuel).

    We paid $19,500 for a Black 2002: the only options were Cold Weather, Monsoon, and a CD changer. No Luxury package, so we have steel wheels and no moonroof. All 2002 VW cars benefit from a new 4 year/50k bumper-to-bumper warranty, so we didn't even look at a 2001.

    I wish we had liked the auto TDI better, since they had so many more color choices (Red, Marlin Blue, Silver, White). Still, the 5-speed seemed to us the best combination.
  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    I thought the clutch had a rather long throw. Anyone feel the same way? Seemed to defeat being able to rack the seat all the way back for extra leg room.
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