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bit
Cheers Pat.
The WRX is a Subaru Impreza with a hotrod motor. It is a smaller car than the Legacy. They are brand new in the US and they are selling like hotcakes.
One more tip: check with your insurance agent to see if there is a difference in insurance rates for the two cars. The difference in insurance costs might be considerable. Plus a lot of insurance companies get all freaky-deaky when they hear the word "turbo".
Regards,
-wdb
The WRX is the top Impreza. Its new platform just came out for MY2002, and it a little smaller than the GT, about the same size as the A4. It's basically the platform they race in the WRC.
Charles: if you do the brakes, take photos and share them? That's one thing I have not done yet.
-juice
Try the seats now - since you don't need a heavy jacket. You should feel heat in the 'behind' area and the lower back. You should also be able to feel the heat by just placing your hand over that area on the seat.
-Brian
The link to the chat is near the top of this page, just under the topic title.
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
-juice
IMO: However, since you state that you don't have much experience in car repair, I would think twice about starting off with a brake job. Replacing the pads themselves is very simple, but you may also need to have the disks turned on a lathe. To accomplish this you would need to take them off the car and go to a auto parts store or mechanic to have them turned. Secondly, if you make any errors on reinstallation, the end result could be life threatening (i.e. you need to brake to avoid another car and the brakes fail or don't work). Why not start out with something like a tune-up or oil change and work into the brake job.
-- Bill
thank you,
robert
I'm moving to Ken M.'s neck of the woods to Ft. Lewis, Washington (just south of Seattle, and my next Army posting) and plan to spend a lot of my weekends on the back side of Mt. Ranier, the other 3 passes along the same mountain chain, up to Mt. Baker during the winter months snowboarding. During the summer months, I'll be hitting the same areas for mountain biking, and I'll also be looking for some good areas to go fly fishing.
I understand that many of the main roads are kept snow plowed and that there is no real need for a true off road vehicle to access those locations.
However, I spoke with a friend of mine from Minnesota who had owned an Outback and he said that it had no undercarriage protection to speak of and that the owners manual recommended against any offroad use. He said that the 7 inch ground clearance was insufficient and that any type of deep snow use of the vehicle could result in parts of the undercarriage being ripped out.
1. What are your thoughts on the Outback Wagon's undercarriage protection/lack thereof?
The second part of my question relates to many of the issues I have seen raised in these past 1000 postings. I've read that Outback Wagons:
a. lack key lights,
b. doors rattle when windows are down
c. center AC vents can't be shut off
d. seats have poor lumbar support
e. O2 sensors have failed and some recalled
f. some vehicles were recalled because of bad fuel hoses
g. the dash cupholder doesn't work well with fast food cups & gets jammed with the little stabilizer finger
h. no variable delays on the wind shield wipers
i. a full size spare is not available
j. some vehicles have defective rotor brakes coming from the plant
k. there is no capacity for HID head lights on the vehicle like the ones on the A4 1.8 Audi Avant
l. Many new vehicles have alignment issues and need corrected, and involve hypersensitive air pressure checks on all tires
m. the brakes are squishy.
2. My second question is: There have been frequent references to how much better the 2000 and 2001 models were in minor improvements. Do any of those "minor improvements" include corrections to the above list? If so what corrections to the above list have been made?
3. Does the Outback Wagon have the capacity to have a hidden 6 CD changer inside the wall of the back compartment like the one in the Audi A4 1.8 T Avant? I like this feature because it lessons the chance of vehicle being broken into because the player is not in plain view.
4. Are the Outback Wagon bumpers (front and back) strong enough to push another vehicle, or be pushed by another vehicle (in minor emergencies like someone needing to be pushed out of traffic after a breakdown), without damaging the bumpers, or are they the cheap plastic kind found on most vehicles today? How much weight can they handle?
Looking forward to any feedback I can get on above issues. I don't want to get a truck or SUV if I can avoid it because hate the bad gas mileage, the increased insurance costs, the higher roll over rates but I want to be able to do some minor off roading and have a little bit of capacity to push another vehicle or be pushed based on past experiences in snow, sand, mud, and traffic breakdowns.
Thanks,
Rob M (Ft. Lewis bound)
What kind of Ford do you own now? Have you ever driven a Subaru? You might want to try and rent one and check out some of the things you are concerned about first hand.
bit
I appreciate the feedback on the 01 GT Wagon. As best I can tell, many of the features of the other OB models also apply to the Outback Wagon (the only Outback vehicle which I am looking at right now).
The key light deal is a big security concern to my wife because she doesn't have one on her car and likes the one I have on my car, and I've gotten all the feedback in this message string about turning on the interior light to see the keyhole to start the car. The bottom line is that she wants one.
The undercarriage protection, bumper strength, and ability to do some minor off roading are my main concerns. I have read about all of the strengths of the Subaru OB Wagon in this long string of messages so I'm not asking for a restatement of that info, just my specific concerns which I talked about in message number 1013.
I'm about 75% to 80% convinced that I'll get an Outback Wagon because of all of its positive attributes but I want the knowledgeable folks on this web discussion to address the issues I've raised for my own peace of mind.
By the way, I currently own a student loan financed, 93 Ford Escort hatchback. I've used it to transport my labrador retriever on hunting trips and to mount my three bikes on the back bumper attachment for trips up to the Appalachian mountain biking locations, as well as the normal array of trips up and down the East Coast on I-95. It's got about 125,000 miles and has been pretty reliable but it is not an all wheel drive and can't go places that I used to take my older Mazda truck and Chevy S-10 truck.
Thanks again for the feedback. Others, I'd still like to hear from you on my posted concerns.
Rob M.
As for the undercarriage and all... there is a differential cover available as an option. But the bumpers are typical plastic and I can't imagine that you could really push or be pushed without incurring at least some cosmetic damage. I'm sure you will find lots of folks here who do offroading with their OBs.
bit
I use my Outback Limited for rather more aggresive road conditions than most people posting here do. I live in Australia where there are rather more poor roads than in the USA. Most of the time my Outback is used on bitumen but it does go onto unformed roads and rocky tracks quite well and also copes with farm visits well. I should post a couple of the pictures from a recent farm visit as my wife sswears they look like advertising posters for Subaru.
That said, the Outback is not a full on off-road vehicle and should not be abused by being asked to do things beyond its capabilities. However, for most sane people the limits of the car will be well beyond your fear envelope.
I have not scraped the differential yet although this has been a problem for me in other cars. The added ground clearance is great for this.
The limiting factor for the Outback wagon is usually the rear ramp angle. I have a tow bar fittd and this tends to scrape if you are approaching too steep a grade transition.
The strength of the bumpers is rather greater than you expect, particularly if you have a rear tow hitch fitted. I was rammed from behind, causing a couple of thousand dollars damage to the other car and no visible damage to mine. There was some hidden damage which was purely plastic but no impact to the body structure. The worst impact for me was a stiff neck for a few days.
Outbacks are pretty solid but don't take on a truck in an unfair fight.
The key light may be available as an option somewhere. An illuminated key surround is now fitted to Outbacks in Australia and I suspect the wiring for it will be standard on the loom somewhere. That said, the slow dimming interior light ensurees you can find the keyhole anyway.
Hope you like the car. It is the most satisfying car ownership experience I have ever had.
Cheers
Graham
That's a good suggestion on the key light. I'll have to look into that. That's just the type of input I was looking for. Any web links or sales locations that you know of to obtain such a light attached to the key I would be interested in hearing about.
I went down to our local Subaru dealer here on McPherson Church Rd in Fayetteville, NC to speak with them about my concerns today on the Outback Wagon and to take it for a test drive.
The lady I spoke with was friendly and not pushy at all. Once she realized I had a list of negative things about the Outback she was a little taken aback. She was honest though when she didn't know the technical questions about the engine and brakes. She also admitted that she was just a salesperson.
She said it would be best to meet with the guy in the service department during the week (when he works) to ask the technical questions.
Unfortunately, she brought out another salesmen who tried to dazzle me with fancy footwork and baffle me with BS when I asked him specific questions which were all raised on this forum by Subaru owners. The only point he raised which might have been valid, was that the oil pan protector is plastic because if it was metal it would rust from road salt. I think he was just BSing on every one of my questions though and I'll have to get better answers from the service rep who works on the Subarus.
This BSer also suggested that I go to better web forums (which I took to mean Subaru sponsored) than this one at Edmunds.com and get info from people who "really know Subarus." I guess since I'm in a military town (Ft. Bragg), many of the car dealers seem to think that every short haired soldier/Marine who walks into the door is an easy target who will buy into a bunch of baloney and that none of them do their homework before walking onto the lot.
I appreciate the continued feedback.
If there are any aftermarket ideas to make the bumpers stronger I'm interested in hearing about them. Same is also true for the undercarriage oil pan/muffler and front and real axle protectors.
Rob M
Do you have the Subaru installed tow kit or an aftermarket model for your rear bumper?
Thanks,
Rob M.
thank you,
robert
I have a Subaru supplied tow bar manufactured by Hayman Reece. It does not have a square section removable tongue as this is not an isue for me.
The actual mounting for it includes a 40mm diameter pipe across the whole of the rear between the bumper and the bodywork.
It is solid and is rated to 1400kg braked or 750kg unbraked load. Australian standards effectively mean that the braked load should be less than the car weight.
Hitch works well and the Outack is an excellent tow car, particularly with load levelling rear end and low ratio transmission as fitted here. Pity you folks don't get these items
Cheers
Graham
Key light: maybe you've heard this one already but the keyless entry illuminates the interior lights when you press the unlock button. On my car (model year 2000), as soon as I'm in and close the door the lights go out. I just press the unlock button again, turn the lights back on, and I can see just fine.
Regards,
-wdb
(who despises car salesmen who tell such bad lies)
Mike
-Key lights - keyless entry transmitter turns on interior lights when it unlocks the doors. I can't remember the last time I used a key to unlock a door!
-Center A/C vents - I've never needed to turn them off. I can aim them anywhere necessary. Hasn't been an issue.
-Lumbar support - mine is 3-way adjustable. Nice on long trips, along with adjusting seat position. I've always been comfortable, and felt there was adequate support.
-Variable wiper - Front yes, rear no. Wish it weren't so.
-Brakes - Dealer put on new front pads at time of purchase (53k miles). They feel great to me, not the least bit "squishy".
I haven't driven a new one (yet) - I would expect them to be better in most respects. I hope my observations as they apply to a slightly older version are helpful. Don't forget to get to a Mariners game or two!
Cheers!
Paul
(Spokane)
We did a 450 mile trip mostly on the Interstate this weekend. Our 2001 Outback wagon with 5 speed got 27.2 mpg. The worst I've gotten is 18.5 driving only on surface roads in the city. As far as seating room, no problem. I'm 6 feet and don't have the seat even close to being all the way back. I sat in the back seat to see what it was like and was able to sit with my legs straight. More than I can say for the seats when I fly. Our car never got that bad smell people talked about. I feel the power of the car is more than adequate. I passed people going 70 in 5th gear quickly when driving today. The heater and heated seats seem a bit slow. It took about 20 minutes this morning to warm up even though it was only 35 outside. I'd like a nice snowstorm so I can check out the all wheel drive.
Do you know of any skid plates which can be put in on the Outback Wagon aftermarket, perhaps between that plastic airflow device and the pan/engine?
mjansen1: Looking forward to checking out that trail site in Puyallup. If you know of a good web site for mountain biking trails in the South metro Seattle area let me know. I've managed to hit every published (and a couple of unpublished/off limits) trails within a 100 miles of my current home.
Paul: The key ignition light, center air vents and the time variable (not just one "variable" time but a variable set to any of a number of time delays that the driver wants) are all big issues for my wife. I don't know what it is about the AC or the heat but what feels good for me invariably is not the right temperature for her. I think all of those are minor issues that she can probably get over, but it would be nice if Subaru made the minor corrections to their future models.
Take care all and thanks again for the feedback,
Rob M.
Here, this is like a parellel universe of positivity.
I am looking for a car and early on had a really bad experience with a NJ Subaru dealer. Salesman lied about a car and then had the nerve to say "I've got to try." We'll see what the BBB has to say but I guess just one more dirty s/m...
BUT NOW, after reading the messages on Subaru, where happy messages flow, I will find another dealer and see what I can find.
To date, search revolved around Volvo. I liked it because of weight as I am in SUV land (scary). I need a grunt car for 100m/wk child travel to/from playgroups- and the Volvo seemed to have it all. All that is except unhappy owners who are full of horror stories. So thanks and now on to the SUBARU hunt.
Any suggestions? I am looking for a wagon, I guess yr '97-'93 as my price range is $7-10k, and care little for extras beyond air, roof rack (@6'2" I deplore the sunroof), and a trailer hitch. Legacy seems to fit the bill but how do the mid-90s versions hold up?
Ross
So, who do I believe, the folk at Subaru who "wrote the manual" or the central Pennsylvania car mechanic who interpreted?
I remember that someone recently had a question about canoe cartopping. I am in the process of building a 2-piece fitted wooden roof rack that will extend beyond the sides of the rails thereby widening the effective platform. We will then use locking straps around the hull and the rails to secure to the roof. This plus two-point connections at the front and rear to the towing points (actually to carabiners attached to the towing points) will lock the whole thing into place. Having built the cedar strip canoe by hand, I just could not see spending $150 or so for a soleless metal rack. Having said that, I think REI (www.rei.com) is having a 20% off sale on Thule racks right now.
Spring is almost here, time to put the skiis away and get out the summer toys.
I have found the Outback to be the most sensitive car to tyre pressure variations that I have ever driven. Even fluctuations of a pound or two make dramatic differences to handling. This is most marked when one front tyre is a different pressure to the other but even overinflated tyres have a dramatic effect on handling and comfort.
I have tried varying pressures and found Subaru's recommendations to be the best comfort / ride / handling compromise. Try lowering the pressures a pound a day until you get them to Subarus spec and see if you can see the change. Check temperatures at consistent temperatures as measurements are based on cold tyres.
By the way, it is worth investing in a good trye gauge and cross checking the read outs on your local service stations pump. They are dropped and quickly go off true readings.
Cheers
Graham
LOW tire pressure will cause MORE heat buildup and increase the danger of tires failing due to heat. Lower pressures mean that the sidewalls will flex more as the tire rotates. (Look at the sidewall of your tire where the tire is touching the road, then look at it at the top; see how it bulges a bit at the bottom? That is normal. Now imagine that the tire is rotating; the bulge is being transferred around the circumference of the tire as it rotates.) Sidewall flex and its attendant friction are a source of heat; too much heat is the (probable) cause of the Firestone-related tire woes you've heard so much about. That and the fact that the tires were undersized for the vehicle, in my opinion.
HIGHER pressure will DECREASE heat buildup, will give you better gas mileage due to decreased friction, and may even give you longer tire wear. Higher pressure will make the handling feel crisper and sharper; in fact folks who autocross pump the tires up really high, say 50 lbs or so, to minimize sidewall flex and improve handling. Higher pressure will also slightly diminish wet weather traction and it will slightly but noticeably increase ride harshness.
38 lbs is a lot, but then the OB has pretty chunky tires. I have much lower-profile tires on my GT, and I like 34 to 36 lbs. 30 lbs will make for a cushy ride. NONE OF THESE PRESSURES IS DANGEROUS. It really comes down to preference. Set your pressures to 38, drive the car for a day, then the next morning lower them to 34 and drive it, then the next morning lower them to 30. Always set tire pressure when the tire is cold. Find a number that feels good to you, and enjoy it!
Cheers,
-wdb
Here we got tons of snow this weekend. Most of it melted off in the valleys. However, most of the ski resorts are reporting a foot of new snow, with bases in the 80" to 140" range. My Forester's temp gauge reported 10 degrees (F) this morning in Park City (UT). Brrr!
-Dan
I think the 2.5GT came along in 1998, and given you're going to load it up I'd look for one of those. Other Legacys had the 2.2l engine.
The Outback came along in 1995, and in '96 got the 2.5l engine. In 1997, it got a power boost to 165hp and no longer required premium fuel, so I recommend 1997 or later.
Both may be a bit above your price range, but they may still have a bit of the 5/60 powertrain warranty remaining to offset that.
Sorry to hear all the Volvo horror stories scared you off. Subarus are not perfect, but even folks that have had some problems tend to be drawn to them. They have a lot of character, and represent a good value.
-juice
Thank you.
The bulbs are coming up, the mosquitoes are coming out (got my first bite of the season the other day) and the sunroof is opening.
Actually, I would like to do just a bit more skiing but that's not going to happen this season around here.
Graham/wbd- Thanks for the feedback on the tire/tyre pressures.
Warren
We always joke that Subaru owners are dog people (OK, cat lovers, pet people). You'll fit right in.
Join us this Thursday from 9-10pm eastern time for our weekly chat. There's a link right at the top of this page. We'd love to hear about your new car!
-juice
Thanks for the feedback. I'll check into those two web sits.
I got an e-mail offer from my local dealership, which I visited the other day and the lady there said that the vehicle had scotchguard and underside rustproofing for an extra $795. She claimed that everyone up north pays extra to get their cars rustproofed because of all the road salt.
As I understand, Subaru gives a 5 year rust perforation on all new cars. I'm also under the impression that all new vehicles already have protectant on the interior as is standard with all new cars.
Ladies and gents from the North, am I getting fed another load of bull with this scotchguard/underside rustproofing offer?
Thanks,
Rob M.
I live just outside of Chicago. The area is "known" for its use of salt on the roads during the snow season. In spite of this, I have NOT used rustproofing as Subarus are built with sufficient protective coating and use galvanized metal.
I have owned three Subarus. The first was purchased in late '91, the second in Sept. '95 and the latest in Nov. 01. At NO time did my dealer suggest scotchguarding or rustproofing. I never experienced rust on any of the cars.
I don't think I'm alone in saying "buyer beware!"
My two cents!
Don
Don
So they could literally be collecting money for doing nothing at all. In fact, this undercoating is what causes the New Car Stench that Subarus are famous for!
Yes, they mostly use double-galvanized steel nowadays, so it probably isn't necessary any way.
Scotchguard was recalled, pulled from the shelves, because it was found to leave a chemical residue on the fabric that basically lasted forever, and they didn't know what side effects that would cause. I don't even think it's sold any more!
Man, that dealer is full of BALONEY!
-juice
I was looking under my Bean Outback and I noticed a plastic flap that protrudes from the underside of the vehicle, just forward of each rear tire. SAABs have a similar flap that protrudes further than the ones on my Outback, and, they are mounted at a slight angle relative to the rear wheels. The flaps on my Bean are perpendicular to the direction of travel and stick down about 2".
Any thoughts?
-juice
Please check to see if your Forester has them the next time you get a chance.