Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.

blckislandguy · September 2005

Jtciii, if you like Fords so much, please consider a CPO Jag X Type with a 6 year, 100,000 mile warranty for the same money as a new Focus. Or, how about a CPO S70 Volvo?? Man, move up in the world a little.

stomp32 · September 2005

Based on personal experience, I would also advise you to let it go. Sure, your blood is boiling because you were dealing in good faith and thought the dealer was doing the same, but most people here are correct in saying that your efforts will probably get you nowhere. What I don't understand is the amount of vitrol directed at you. Real short fuses, it seems.

It might take a while before you can step back and look at this situation more objectively, but you'll probably agree that your time and troubles are not worth something of this magnitude. Take your business to another dealer and put this experience under "Lesson Learned". That's what I did and I know it was for the best.

Good luck in whichever route you choose to pursue.

nortsr1 · September 2005

Please bobst...not the key story again!!!

Kirstie_H · September 2005

Some of them have been removed. Again, if you don't like someone's posts, please simply skip them instead of responding with hostility.

lhess · September 2005

is simply this:

Yes, we probably all think this is a lousy way of doing business and it's a very poor way to treat customers. I think you are 100% entitled to being mad as heck at this dealer. I think the dealer is wrong and it's very possible that it is borderline (or even blatantly) illegal.

However, spending your time and money (money you could use to buy a nicer car from a nicer dealer) to go after this dealer is a waste. You want to really hurt this dealer and cost him a lot of future business (which they may have well earned), make him have to pay damages to you and ultimately change the way he does business, but it won't happen. My guess is, you'd be lucky to find an attorney to even take your case.

Get your money back, go buy another car (get something fun, by the way), sit down and write a letter to the sales manager telling him how unhappy you were with how you were treated (nothing nasty and no exaggerating), and move on. You're just too upset to be hearing something other than what you WANT to hear right now.

jipster · September 2005

jtciii, these are mostly car dealers and those who have a self interest in the business who are slamming on you. Whenever a post such as yours comes up they call in the reserves to mount a counter offensive. If more people took the actions that you are about to undertake...we would have less of these sleazy methods of selling a car going on. And no need for this particular topic discussion of "Dealer Tricks"

I congratulate you and admire your persistence...and wish you luck on your endeavor.

nortsr1 · September 2005

I think we have lost jctiii......Darnit!!

lhess · September 2005

in the business or any close friends selling cars.

audia8q · September 2005

these are mostly car dealers and those who have a self interest in the business who are slamming on you. Whenever a post such as yours comes up they call in the reserves to mount a counter offensive.

Seems to me that many of the posters are not in the car biz...

If more people took the actions that you are about to undertake...we would have less of these sleazy methods of selling a car going on

I didnt read anything from the car biz people defending the dealer...But I did read from many car people that the buyer should not reward the dealer with a sale but the poster is planning on doing just that....as long as he gets his price. Talk about an ethical deficiency. Its like he is saying...for the right price I will put up with bad behavior and sleazy tactics.

Nobody wants sleazy dealers to go away more than the regular car people on this board....but it appears that you, like many others, lump all dealers into the same group. Just like you wouldnt want us to classify all buyers as liars not all dealers are bad.

jipster · September 2005

"Seems to me that many of the posters are not in the car biz"

Well, thats even worse then. It means they had no excuse for being rude, sarcastic and ill mannered.

" I didn't read anything from ...." But I did read from many car people that the buyer should not reward the dealer with a sale...."

Not buying the car at the price the poster wanted would hardly be hurting the dealer. What would be hurting the dealer is taking a fraudulent case to the BBB, states attorney office and ultimately to court if the facts warrant as such. This negative publicity is all a dealership really fears. Everything else can be swept under the rug.

In reguards to lumping all dealerships in the same boat...well... let's just say some are better than others. I think it is fairly easy to see that most all dealerships engage in deceitful advertising. But, most people in the "business" would say as long as it's not illlegal...anything is fair game. I guess if you are told a certain practice is okay enough times...you start to believe it.

user777 · September 2005

agreed. sometimes i feel we are nothing more than chum. and there's some difficulty understanding how a dealership gets a bad rap?

if their wives or their mothers, dads, their sisters or their brothers, or their best friend got the short end of the stick, i bet they'd be down to the dealer doing a bit of a public tet-a-tet in a heartbeat.

but it is no surprise jtcii moved on. he's hopefully on his way towards peace with both of these experiences.

sbell4 · September 2005

tête-à-tête (tat´?-tat?, tet´?-tet?) adverb & adjective
Without the intrusion of a third person; in intimate privacy: talk tête-à-tête; a tête-à-tête supper.

noun

1.A private conversation between two persons.
2.A sofa for two, especially an S-shaped one allowing the occupants to face each other.

Excerpted from The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition Copyright © 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from Lernout & Hauspie Speech Products N.V., further reproduction and distribution restricted in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.

lhess · September 2005

get offended when we post here and claim that car dealers are sleazy thieves. Fair enough, I would too. But the bottom line is this: You don't have to do much car-buying in your lifetime to encounter a really bad car salesperson, dealership, manager.... And, they tell us to go buy from a nice dealer. Well, sometimes you truly think you've found a nice dealer until it's time to do the deal and you find out they're trying to screw you as well, or when the car needs repaired under warranty, they are less than helpful. I also think that many of the things dealers do are so gray as to whether it's legal or illegal that it's too risky to go after them. And, they know that. So there are no real consequences and they keep doing it. Sad, but true.

In reality, this particular thread deals with "bad car deals" and the people who use it for that do get attacked sometimes. Shame on all of us. I also gave jctiii the advice to just drop it and move on. It's truly how I feel, but I completely understand his/her anger at the dealer.

I probably trade a little more than the average driver and I have had some really bad experiences. I will admit, I have my guard up when I go on the car lot. I want to say on a positive note, my current dealer for my mazda is GREAT!! GOOD DEAL ON THE CAR, GREAT SERVICE, GREAT SALESPEOPLE, LOANER CAR WHENEVER I NEED IT, and I will buy from them for a very, very long time in the future. Nice dealers do exist they are just very hard to find!!

danf1 · September 2005

We aren't that difficult to find. Ask someone you trust, friend or family member, for a refferrall. If they are happy with their previous experience, they will tell you. If they aren't then you probably have already heard about it.

user777 · September 2005

yup. chum it is. you proved the point. good for you.

last time i checked, terry didn't need a wingman.

look, thanks for correcting my spelling and my english, err french. sure, you got the dictionary definition for the noun phrase, but did you look it up in a thesaurus?

basically i was refering to a conversation, chit-chat or banter.

AFAIK, "tete-a-tete" literally means and i believe was derived from "head to head".

how about an in your face conversation with a meeting of the minds (or heads).

"public" - i meant in the sense that this exchange is made non-private.

see i mispelled it, and i modified it's usage a bit, but you probably got the point anyway.

what a great language, country, forum...

audia8q · September 2005

yoru right...there are bad dealers and there are good ones...finding a good retailer, doctor, lawyer, travel agent, lawn service, salesperson, or whatever usually takes a little work. I find it odd that people do 8 months of research to find the right car but don't spend 30 minutes getting a decent referral......I genrally don't buy any big item without a referral or some idea who is getting my money.

sbell4 · September 2005

I apologize if you got the wrong impression from my post. I wasn't correcting your spelling or vocabulary but was commenting on the fact that Terry likes those "big dollar" words and comments on them from time to time. It was all in good clean fun.

Obviously, I had to look up the meaning for myself........I dindnt know what tete-a-tete meant so I was also making fun of myself!

user777 · September 2005

sbell4, funny - after i posted my reply, i thought about the vaguenes of the english language, and considered that i probably mis-understood the intent of your post. my next thought was......
(temerity on) this is probably why bobst was being explicit about the number of keys. (temerity off)

thanks.

sbell4 · September 2005

I also had to look up temerity. I am not talking with you any more because it was too much work.

nwalbert · September 2005

Hey Guys,

This is the sitation that I am in. I am purchasing a new 2005 Acua TSX auto without Navi, sticker price is $37,500 ( Cdn). I am trading in a 2000 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro. There is no Acura dealer in the town I live in, and only two within driving distance. One is 1.5 hours drive away, the other is 4 hours drive.

I began dealing with dealer A (the closer one) and they offered me $11k (which I thoguht was low) for my trade and sticker on the new one. I went to this dealer in person. Dealer B offered me same price on new car and $14k for my trade based on seeing it. My trade is in near mint condition, certainly nothing a deler could honeslty worry about.

Dealer A called me back to check and I reported excactly what Dealer B had offered, he got a little upset and claimed that when I drove the 4 hours they would not offer the same deal and change it.

I want the deal that B offered, I don't want to drive 4 hours down and 4 hours back for nothing, I know they won't sign the deal without seeing my car first, is there anything that I can do ??

Any advice is GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks,
Scott

bobst · September 2005

Why a TSX? It is a nice FWD car, but a Honda would be almost as nice and much cheaper. 1.5 hours is a long time to drive for service, especially if the weather is not too good.

I love driving our RSX, but out Accord is very nice as well.

How about a Subaru?

Is there anything you can do to make sure dealer B will give you $14K for your Audi? In Canada, probably not. In the U.S., we can call on Prez Bush to take care of us.

oregonboy · September 2005

hahahahahaha, bobst made a joke.

james

boomchek · September 2005

There isn't anything you can do except drive 4 hours and find out.

I never quote a number on a trade in I haven't seen, so dealer B shouldn't have done that, maybe they just gave you a ballpark or top book value to get you in the door.

And you can't make or expect dealer B to honour the deal because they haven't even seen your trade yet. If the top book on your trade is $14k, but it needs for example new tires ($800), brakes ($400), tune up ($250), and some body work done ($1000), then really it puts your car's worth closer to $11k - $11.5K.

If you feel your trip is worthwhile then go to dealer B but and find out. Nothing is in stone unless it's on a contract after the vehicles are appraised, numbers worked out and signatures on the dotted lines.

By the way which province are you in?

rroyce10 · September 2005

...... **temerity** ....... hmm, isn't that an infection you get between your toes..?

Terry.

user777 · September 2005

in my case, i think between the ears.

rroyce10 · September 2005

.. **get offended when we post here and claim that car dealers are sleazy thieves ..... **

I don't think anyone here gets offended ..... but sometimes we do have to stop and read the whole post to understand it, because most of these stories are a little on the distorted side or (and let's be honest here) most posts are here to "unload" or to tell a tale of how someone got mistreated and they didn't get their price or their expectations filled - for many reasons .. and most we'll never hear about, because there is always 3 sides to every story - his side, her side -- and the truth.

The biggest problem with buying "anything", is whether or not it was the right decision for the right reasons .. and most won't admit when they have made the wrong decision, it happens every minute of everyday and thats a form of rejection and "rejection" is the Cancer of all of the emotions ... right or wrong, people don't like getting their feelings hurt - so it must be somebody else's fault .. so lets blame the dealer.

Over at RWTIV's ... do you think that 100% of the readers take my word for the value of their vehicle..? heck no..! (and I have nothing to gain) .... but, they will peruse this website and that info source or that data center until someone shows them $3,000 more for their vehicle - and ziiiip off goes the printer and the next thing ya know they are stickin' that paper into some salesmans face and sayin' "give me this for my trade or you're rippin' me off" ..... like my great Grand Daddy used to say: "a little information is dangerous and too much is not enough ...."

You mention: ""until it's time to do the deal and you find out they're trying to screw you as well"" .... what part of this sentence is correct.? you're supposed to be a smart shopper, right..? ...... some golfers spend $999 for the new Callaway X-Tour irons, some spend time on the internet or shop some stores or make some offers and spend $599 ... so is the $999 dealer an evil and nasty person from another universe.? heck no, it's business and he gets what he gets ... lets take the jeweler at the Mall, he "has to" make at least 20% more because of his overhead, so he sells a Omega Constellation Men's watch for $2,200 (and he sells tons of them at that price) but if you're smart shopper and take your time you can find em' for $1,500 .... I guess he's a bad person, maybe we should shoot him..? ..l.o.l....

You referred to: ""I also gave jctiii the advice to just drop it and move on. It's truly how I feel, but I completely understand his/her anger at the dealer ... "" ........ I'm angry also, I was out of town for a few days and Dillards had their semi-annual big store sale .. that means I could buy $58 Jack Nicklaus golf shirts for $15 so they held a bunch for me from another store - but they got sold by another salesman .... should I have his car stolen..? ..l.o.l...

You also mentioned: ""when the car needs repaired under warranty, they are less than helpful"" ........ dealers make $$ of warranty work (big $$) -- sometimes, maybe, could be the customer is less than helpful, ever think about that ....? ..... you've had 3 "bad experiences" or so you say .. me.? I've had maybe 30,000+ experiences .. just perhaps, maybe - it's a attitude problem, because bad Karma breeds more bad Karma ..... don't take yourself so seriously, breath deep...!

I'll make ya a deal .... the next time you run into any of these evil doers I'll hold them down and you can pull their eyebrows out one at a time ............ :P

Terry

qbrozen · September 2005

wow! That has to be your longest post ever, Terry.

pat · September 2005

You make some very good points, Terry. But this discussion is for folks who want to discuss "dealers' tricks." People should be free to talk about what they perceive as rotten treatment without being told in fifty-seven ways how wrong they are.

We aren't here to jump on people because they feel mistreated by a dealer and some here (not necessarily you, Terry) reeeally need to keep that in mind.

nwalbert · September 2005

My car does not need any work at all, it was even recently detailed. and by recently I mean 2 weeks ago. I am not sure what top book value is on the car though. I am in New Brunswick.

As far as Subaru, no thanks, the styling doesn't do anything for me, just never liked those cars depsite how many hp they put under the hood. My honda dealer will service the Acura, no need to travel to have it serviced.

Scott

lhess · September 2005

I can mend my ways and my attitudes and move on. I do appreciate the host stepping in, for once, and reminding folks of the purpose of these posts.

Terry posts, "there is always 3 sides to every story - his side, her side -- and the truth." And, it would seem at Edmunds, there are 3 ways to post - "Agree with Terry, Do Not Contradict Terry, or WRONG."

jipster · September 2005

Excellent post pat...thank you.

Kirstie_H · September 2005

Sorry you feel that way, lhess - everyone is free to express their opinions here, regardless of whether Terry or anyone else agrees. I certainly don't always agree with ANY one person here on Edmunds!!

However, it is true that there are generally many sides to every story, and we only get one side here. Well, that's the breaks! If a dealer wants to come in and tell his/her side of the story, the Edmunds.com accounts are in fact free.

As Pat noted, this topic is titled "dealer's tricks," and a lot of folks who don't buy cars regularly find some of the not-quite-so-straightforward methods often implemented to be frustrating at the least. It's not quite like buying most other products, in that there are several parties involved in the transaction (salesperson, manager, finance) who can complicate the deal, and at any point a consumer may assume that the deal has stayed the same when in fact, it can change.

So no, you sure don't have to agree with anyone else in this discussion, and your opinion is certainly as valid as anyone else's.

dsattler · September 2005

When I bought my next to last car, I got a price on the new car and my trade-in, went to two other dealers and they both said "They won't really give you that deal. You should buy from us." For some dealers this may be a standard statement. The original dealer not only gave me the deal he'd offered, but bettered it when I returned with no prompting from me. Oh, and on the Acura TSX questions and bobst's response, coincidentally I DO own a Subaru (2005 Legacy GT Limited wagon) and it is a blast to dirve.

jipster · September 2005

" a lot of folks who don't buy cars regularly find some of the not-quite-so-straightforward methods often implemented to be frustrating at the least"

WOW....I've never seen dealers well known methods of deception and lies sugar-coated that well before.( Hold on a sec...need to go brush my teeth. O.K...I'm back.)

But, I think buying a car regularly pales in comparison to: doing your homework, knowing dealer and trade in prices, what kind of vehicle you want etc. Someone could buy a new car every 6 months, and get ripped off every 6 months if they didn't know what they were doing.

I was not frustrated during my first car buying experience, because I knew what to expect and what I wanted. The salepeople could play all the games they wanted...I was always a step ahead.

It was aggravating though when they would waste my time by saying they had a certain car. Then when I showed up to look at it, the salesperson saying it had already been sold or "in an accident".

Kirstie_H · September 2005

frankly, if you're buying a car every 6 months, you're ripping yourself off :P

But yeah, if you arrive at the dealership prepared, awake and alert, you shouldn't be ripped off - the hard part is not getting "worn down" by the process and accepting just about anything in order to get outta there with a car. I've done that before... it's not pretty.

jipster · September 2005

" :P "

What is the official interrpretation of this icon? Are you blowing me a raspberry or sticking your tongue out at me?

I will agree with the getting "worn down" tactic. It's amazing how much quicker a deal will move when one gets up to walk out the door.

Also, don't ever take small children in to look at cars if you can avoid it. Anyone who has done this before knows what I'm talking about.

oregonboy · September 2005

I believe it's officially a raspberry. The description is "pblt" If you leave your cursor over the icons at the bottom of the page a descriptor should pop up. :P

james

mirth · September 2005

I went to your site, and it wasn't Car Dealer reviews, it was Car Owner reviews. And they already have those here at Edmunds. No offense, but compared to most, if not all, car web sites out there, your site stunk. If you really want to help people, keep them here at Edmunds.

user777 · September 2005

if the sites URL involves the words dealer and rater, their numerical ratings scales don't even work properly in the comparison summary. big oops when that is the top level differentiator for the information presented to potential buyers.

user777 · September 2005

got it. they have their own site design problems. click on a dealership with no reviews and their .NET implementation dies. bad / buggy SW implementation.

aldisimo · September 2005

Not sure whether this belongs in "dealer tricks" but can't find another topic more appropriate ...

While negotiating with the dealer via e-mail, the car that I wanted was sold. They said that they'd search the state (TX) to find another. At my request, they've just sent me the VIN of the car, expecting it to arrive tomorrow or the next day.

Is there a way to track which dealership this car is coming from? We have frequent floods in southeast Texas and I don't want a car from a dealership that was flooded.

mikefm58 · September 2005

I can understand the concern about getting a flood car, especially with what's gone on with the past two storms. But you will be getting a new car with the full warranty.

geo9 · September 2005

Depending on what make of car you could check all the dealers inventory
on the mfrs. web site and trace the car from there.

Do you know which dealer they are getting it from, or zip code, or city ?

It would be a pain to track but possible...........

Inspect the car carefully before you sign !!!!!!!!!!!!!

aldisimo · September 2005

I think my salesperson has been honest and upfront through the negotiations, so I just asked him. He told me where the car is coming from, and I found the VIN in that dealer's inventory.

What did we do before the Internet? :confuse:

530ir1150r · September 2005

Every window sticker I have ever seen had the original dealers name on it.

aldisimo · September 2005

Thanks for passing that along. I didn't realize it, but given the flood situation here, I'll probably use that knowledge one day.

cadillacmike · September 2005

Once a car is placed into service as a "demonstrator" the warranty miles and month start counting down.

It's right in most warranty booklets, if you care to look.

cadillacmike · September 2005

If a car is just being taken on test drives and has 150 or so miles on it then thm miles driven (and they like to put "ten") are added to the 36,000 (or whatever) and your warrant start date is the date of transaction (signing date, even if your car takes 1-3 days to get delivered!).

BUT

If it was placed into lng term "demonstrator status 6 month ago and has 6,000 miles, you now have a 30 month, 30,000 mile warranty! :surprise:

It's been like that for 20-30 years.

bdr127 · September 2005

If it was placed into lng term "demonstrator status 6 month ago and has 6,000 miles, you now have a 30 month, 30,000 mile warranty!

But some manufacturers have a "demo extension" for warranties (BMW, for example).... and others do their warranties based on miles at signing (GM, for example). It really depends on the manufacturer.

cadillacmike · September 2005

You're wasting your time Terry.

This guy is all talk and no action - just like the guy in the gm wrranty practices thread. I'm still waiting on those rockwell and brinell hardness numbers! :P

Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.

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