honesty....very sorry to hear of your firing. But, that could be a blessing in disguise.
While I'm not in the car business, I do oversee support, marketing and yes, SALES in a high tech industry. While having only a very brief (and very successful) run in sales before I got into management, I can say that there are two things I look at. Both are equally important. First is good ethics. Just as important, is sales. If you can sell well ethically, you will do well. You become a "consultant" to your customer, not just a sales person.
Sounds like you've got the ethics part down. But, you still have to make your sales at the same time.
I can't imgagine unethical sales people being in the industry for very long. That said, I know for a fact, if you don't "make your numbers", you won't be in a sales capacity very long either. That's true of any industry.
BTW....I think everyone should be fired at least once in their career. It allows you to reacess, not only your job, but your career decisions you have to focus on.
And yes, I was fired once before myself. And looking back, it was the best thing that ever happened to me. Every time I've had to let someone go, it is the hardest part of our job. We hire people, not to fire them, but for them to be successful. If we have to fire them, that means we, as managers have failed.
I do use the same tactic, though. I do tell them it's the hardest part of my job. That said, they usually know it's coming well before the actual "firing" takes place.
You seem smart. You'll land on your feet and do well somewhere else, regardless of whether it's in the car business or not.
There seems to be a sentiment with you that making a decent profit is unethical. As a COMMISIONED salesperson it is my job to sell a car AND make as much profit as possible. When I get a decent pop on a car, I certainly don't brag about it to other salespeople. That's tacky.
Some of the things that you listed ARE unethical. No doubt. But making a profit is not unethical. Even if I sold a new Caddy or Volvo for sticker, I may make 6-10% profit. Compared to other things we buy, that is not a lot.
Actually, the customers that I have had the biggest grosses on have been my happiest customers. :confuse: I guess they don't grind themselves into misery.
a Mini is one of two things.....one is a quirky little car and the other is a minimum commission for selling a car....."mini" commissions range from $35-100 in our region.
So if your a lousy salesperson and you sell 10 cars for mini commissions in one month you will earn anywhere from $350 to $1000 per month.
what would you have done in honestyfired's example of the senior citizen paying msrp AND being given 2 grand under book on his/her trade-in? It is possible the market called for the vehicle being sold at MSRP. But, lets say the vehicle in question usually goes for $2,000 less than MSRP. (Thats potentially $4,000 the senior could have used for future expenses.)
Are you thinking,"Well, gramps must have some money to be buying a new vehicle...so he isn't going to miss it...YEEEHAAA I'm gonna go for the "laydown" ?
Or, "Well, this elderly gentleman doesn't know about the market price for this vehicle...that's sad...BUT...I have a job to do" ?
Or, do you try to sell it for LESS than what you could have gotten from the senior citizen...like honesty. But, try to make it look good as to not arouse suspicion amoungst your co-workeers.
The basic principal of our capitalistic society is very sound. People ( the market ) will pay the correct price for the value that they believe that they will receive. If a sales person gives a '$Million' presentation of a vehicle and buyer feels that the dealership stands committed behind the sale to the point of exceeding the customer's expectations then the buyer will pay the price they feel meets the value received. It might be MSRP. If the buyer was annoyed or didnt feel comfortable or the vehicle just wasnt right then there may be no correct price for that vehicle at that store. - meaning that at that time the price exceeded the perceived value by the buyer.
Take away the emotion and the hype it's a pretty solid principal. It's the reason people will return for years to the same dealership and wont go near other stores under any circumstance. Did I get proper value for my money?
There is also a possibility that "gramps" saw a tremendous value in the vehicle that he was being shown. A salesperson's job is to build value by giving a good presentation of his product, finding what fits his customer's needs, and explaining the benefits of that product. Whenever value is perceived to be greater than cost, a sale will be made.
Maybe the old man had been to a couple other stores and didn't like who he talked to or what they had to talk about. He then ran into someone who treated him with respect and probably had a good knowledge of his product.
Now we don't know exactly what happened here, but I will tell you that I sold many cars for MSRP. I never sold one above sticker. That would be taking advantage of someone. As far as the trade in, most salespeople will start with a lower number on your trade. People are usually going to negotiate, and trade is usually the biggest hurdle that we need to overcome. So if I start out at sticker on my car, hold back a little on your trade in, and we shake hands, then I guess I did my job well. If I were to tell you that you could get a lower price or encourage you to shop around, I would deserve fired.
I work to feed my family. In order to keep my job I must generate profit. Some deals will have more profit than others. In the end, it all balances out and we don't make anywhere near what most people think we do on a car sale. Thank God for service departments and body shops.
I wonder how many folks who pay below market price for a car realize it's because their friend or neighbor has paid above market price? On the other side, How do you feel if your the friend or neighbor??
It is doubtful that the guy who overpaid even knows it.. If he did, would he agree to it?
Plus, most people who get good deals, attribute it to their negotiation skills.... So, are they underpaying? Or, are their skills earning them a better price?
Besides, I like my neighbors... I have no problems helping them get the same good deal that I got..
But, if I get the good deal, because the last three people got reamed.. could you call me the next time, right after you get done with them? I'd like to be next in line...
Well, thanks for asking isell. But, I don't think you're going to be happy with my answer.
Almost the exact thing happened,as you have desribed in your post, when I went to sell my wifes 1994 Buick Century Wagon after purchasing her/our 2004 Mazda MPV minivan on July 1, of 2004.
A few people came over to look at the Buick. I believe we were asking $2,400 and our bottom line was going to be nothing less than $1,900.(it was in excellent to good condition with around 95,000 miles) Finally, after lowering our ad price to $2,200, a man(late 50's) and his wife came over a couple times, said they would like to buy it. The man was a postal worker out in the sticks somewhere and needed a lower riding vehicle in which to deliver the mail and get in and out of.
Anyhow, he asked what I would take for it. I told him I would take $2,000. He said fine...I'll take it. I was like :confuse: Asks if it's okay if he brings the cash over tomorrow and do the paper work. Well, we get to talking and all...he didn't even test drive the car. I go back over the details of the car...and honestyly I am starting to feel bad because I feel this guy is buying a car worth $1,900 for $2,000. So, we're looking at the tires and I tell him that since the tires aren't in the greatest of shape I'll give it to him for $1,900. He says fine...come over the next day and pays cash like he said and drives off.
Now, I have posted this somewhere else in Edmunds forums before about 8-9 months ago. If you don't believe me I would be more than happy to look it up...but need to be somewhere in 15 minutes now. The details may be slightly off due to the time being a while back. But, I believe it was for $100 or so.
So, to answer your question.I would probably sell it to your gentlemen for $10,000...if the circumstances were the same and all. Maybe, if he drives up like a jerk and does nothing but badmouth my vehicle, my house,kids and dog ...I sell it to him for $11,500.
Noble but.. and we probably all have been in this situation. You purchased your house several years ago say in the early 90's and for a number of reasons it's time to move or move up. You bought it for $79900 at that time and now in your neighborhood houses are in the $320K range. You've done the normal things like make abt $15K in improvements to the kitchen and added new siding but the roof might need to be replaced in 5 yrs or so. Would you 'offer' to keep the house under $100K because that's all you have in it?
Now its personal. It's MY house and I should get fair value for it. You put it up on MLS and since it's a sellers market now your broker says ' ask $339,000, lets see who bites'. You are ALL OVER that idea... and the first night someone comes to visit and says 'Ill take it'. Now its not $100-200 its $20000 !!!!
Actually its the buyer who controls the situation because until he says 'Yes, I see the value in buying this.' there is no sale.
Did you gyp someone or did the market move in your favor or was this buyer looking at $350K houses and found this to be a bargain?
honestly fired: You seem like a good person who was at the wrong dealership. There's places out there with good and honest staff who will appreciate the skills you have to offer. When I started in the business 2 years ago i did it because I love cars. Not because i'm good at selling anything. And definetly not because ilie cheat or rip people off. I never sold anything in my life before and I ended up working for a good company with good management and good service. I am not the top sales person either as my numbers of average for a dealership our size.
Some of the tactics you described are definately sleazy and sonner or later it will catch up with the people pulling that on customers. However I agree with most of the salesguys here that you have to look out for yourself too. Mini deals won't put food on your table or pay the rent. There is nothing wrong with making a little bit of money for yourself and for the dealership. And sending customners away to shop around may actually tick them off especially when they're ready to buy from you at that time. Asking people to buy the car is not pressure, it's your job.
Some people will shop around anyways without your suggestions, and some just don't care. For those that are ready to buy, you have to ask them for the order and sell them what they want.
Paying MSRP for a car is not a crime either. Imagine if a dealership that sold 150 cars a month sold them all at great discounts, or almost at cost. They'd go out of business, and you'd starve to death. They wouldn't be able to afford and pay for the facilities, the inventory, the staffing, supplies, advertisement etc.
On the other hand a sleazy delaesrhip that would have all of their cars way overpriced wouldn't last that long either because not many people would buy from them.
Anyways, find a nicer dealership where people will appreciate your honesty and skills, and don't send your customers away without asking for the order. Good luck.
VolvoDan I agree with you as well. The customers that pay MSRP or close to MSRP are the happiest customers I ever had. The ones that grind me to death and to the last penny always want more as it is never enough for them.
my wife and i were selling a vehicle in good condition which was worth private sale somewhere between 1800-2200. we agreed that if we sold the car for anything 1800 or more we'd be satisfied. we had a young man and his father interested in it who initially offered 2000. they test drove it and the young man said he wanted it, but the father smartly indicated they needed a family mechanic to give it a look over. we said fine and let them have the car to get it checked out. the mechanic found some minor stuff, but nothing worth any significant $. when he returned he was negotiating with us in the presence of his father, and we ultimately agreed to drop the price another 150. if i stuck, i'm sure he would have still taken the vehicle. but that wasn't the point.
it was a pleasurable experience for us, and i'm sure for this young man.
did i toss money aside? the vehicle would still have been a good deal for anyone at 2200...
the point here is there are more people out there like jipster, and i'd like to think they are less rare than you assert.
I'm not paranoid spyder....but are you and isells are starting to freak me out. I did indeed buy my house in 1992 for around $75,000. And yes, we have put around $15-20k in it since. But, it is worth nowhere near $320k. The housing market in Louisville has not skyrocketed as in other parts of the country.
well...the house has appreciated(sp?)in value, instead of depreciated as in the case of automobiles. I would list my house for slightly over FMV and hope to get my bottom price.
If my agent said list it 20k over fair market value and then someone said they would take it. Well, honestly I would probably jump up and down with excitement. Why, the change in heart...if there was one...I don't know. I suppose as you suggested the buyer saw the value in the house and was willing to pay that much...so it must be worth it to him.
But, in my defense, it is much more difficult to estimate the price for a house than an automobile. But, I do see you point...which is a good one.
Thats a very good point isell...and I suppose I never really looked hard at it from that angle. Though it is difficult to say for certain what I would do in that future situation with so much more money on the line... my actions in past transactions/situations give me a good idea. i.e sell it for what it's worth.
Also, the gentleman buying my wifes Buick Wagon didn't seem to have much. He seemed like a real nice guy...and well, it just seemed like the right thing to do.
If my agent said list it 20k over fair market value and then someone said they would take it. Well, honestly I would probably jump up and down with excitement. Why, the change in heart...if there was one...I don't know. I suppose as you suggested the buyer saw the value in the house and was willing to pay that much...so it must be worth it to him.
In our society this is the very basis of doing business... the buyer saw the value in the item so it was worth it to him. It's why some people will pay > $35000 for a Camry ( Lexus ES330 ) and others will fight tooth and nail for a price under $23000 on the same 3.3L SE Camry. There is more to value than just the price. A Lexus/Acura buyer cant be forced to do business at a Toyota/Honda store if they feel the product is not worthy of their money.
I try not to interject my values into someone else's decisions, most people resent it. I attempt to give them accurate information to allow them to make good decisions.
Sorry you got canned. I work at a Hummer store that is part of a family of dealerships legendary in this area (our head man literally wrote The Book on customer service). During our training courses (of which there are many), everything we are taught is followed by, "How will the customer feel?" If the answer would be anything less than "comfortable," we're not to do it.
Negotiation is always awkward, I know. But if someone says, "I'll take it" before they ever ask about price, am I going to discount the vehicle one cent? Nope. I'm not going to put the brakes on for the customer and tell him to go shop and that he's paying way too much. I feel that if I did my job and took care of the customer while also getting him/her all hot and bothered about the car, I have the right to ask full boat for the car. Then negotiations start and whatnot, but I have no problem asking full sticker for a car, and don't have any problem taking it either.
There are good dealers out there, but no matter which one you find employment at, they're all going to share one common bond: they're in it to make money. You can have the happiest customers and the best surveys, but if your dealer only made $100 per vehicle and is having to pay you a mini on that, they'll get rid of you versus someone who has great surveys, happy customers, and is pulling $800/copy.
It's a good thing to have a kind heart and I think you do.
I also would vary my stance based on the circumstances and the attitude of the person who is buying.
Years ago, we had a house on the market. a couple came and looked at it with their agent. They didn't have one nice thing to say... didn't like the colors the wallpaper, our landscaping etc. They even made a nasty comment about the color the neighbors had painted their house.
But, they did make an offer, through their agent the next day. a low offer of course. We countered at full price!
The house sold two weeks later to a couple who just fell in love with it.
WOW! Quite a lot of response to my post. I didn't mention in my original post that I sold 80% of my first time clients on their second visit. There was a number of clients who bought on their first visit with the asistance of a closer whether that was a manager or an experienced salesperson. On those deals the negotiations got ugly and seemingly abusive. One couple was told by the manager that they had horible credit and that they needed to put down more money to swing the deal. Their total accumulative salaries was $40k. They didn't have horrible credit, it was above avg. He got out of them they had a savings account and if they wanted this automobile they needed to put more money down. They came in off of an ad that advertised a lease payment they could afford and live within the mileage allowed. So they put more money down, he talked them into an auto that was a step up (good bye good lease deal) and they left paying msrp, putting down $2k more than they wanted and a lease payment $50.00 more per month than they wanted because they loved the auto. As a consultant---- a professional consultant-- shouldn't we be helpful to the consumer? shouldn't it be disclosed to them that they for instance are paying 2% higher interest rate than they qualified for?
I agree that a dealership or any business for that matter needs to make income. I agree that MSRP is fair market value for an automobile. My desire to help people achive a great price may not be fair to the dealership but... From all the deals I observed and listened to and all things the dealership does to make more money... the dealership is not making fair money---the dealership is making money that they should not be making. I would listen to the finance people tell the person that they qualify for 7.9% interest rate when they truly qualify for 5.2%. The client would ask, "I know we have good credit and my neighbor just got a car loan for 5% the other day, why can't I get 5%"? The finance guy would say, "Sorry, this is what you qualify for", and close the deal. LIARS.
Well, in my world of ethics people make a living fairly, honestly and with dignity respecting others and their hard earned money as well. For those sales people who sell automobiles at MSRP and those finance people who disclose the true qualifying rate kudos to you. For those who brag that they got a "lay down" took them on the trade for tons, and cheat them on the qualified interest rate.... I guess you are rich in money, pride, and honor ???
I do LOVE selling cars. I am looking into becoming a Negotiating Consultant for automobile buyers. I will assist with finding the right automobile at the BEST possible price. Either working for an online company or possibly starting my own.
Thank you all for your advice whether it was positive or negative (to me) I have learned from this posting. I love to learn! Learning makes it all positive.
Thanks ... and I appreciate your comments isell, spyder and user777. I suppose there is no right or wrong answer as to what side of the fence you are on in this issue. Either selling for what you believe vehicle/house/whatever is worth OR what the consumer thinks it is worth. As long as one is honest with themselves and the buyer...a clean and honorable deal can be made.
The argument that the "buyer saw a good value" is certainly valid - but only up to a point. For buying a car, this means i.m.o.: If a potential buyer does not like to negotiate and offers to pay MSRP or close to it while others get the same car for 2000 less, then I'd say OK, maybe avoiding the negotiations (and the homework) was it worth to them.
Unfortunately, there are too many stories of the other type, that is: People get charged MSRP, plus they only get 5000 instead of 9000 for their trade, plus the interest rate gets jacked up from 5 to 12 percent, plus they are sold an extended warranty for twice its market value, plus they are sold all the mop-and-glow that fits on the paperwork. I strongly doubt that any of these people sees any value in having twice the monthly payment than realistically necessary.
I.m.o., here the line between selling and ripping off has been clearly crossed, and it is stories like this that make people get tense when thinking about buying a car (not everybody is hanging out on edmunds.com everyday and thus knows about the market)
The list of people who've done me a bad turn includes, but is not limited to:
General Contractor Lawyer Mortgage Title Company Roofer Auto Mechanic
The worst a dealership employee has done to me is get on my nerves; I find it much easier to avoid trouble at car dealerships than with the yahoos in the list. It comes down to what you know... I'm not sure why car dealers are so universally reviled, when they have so much competition... at least they won't set your house on fire like a plumber didi to a friend of mine.
As far as that Ford dealer: That's low. If he wants to charge that kind of money, fine, but he can't take deposits first. Not under the stated conditions. Good thing he lost in court.
Like Mathias, I've had MUCH worse experiences with several other business, including a mortgage title company - the owner flew the coop with $50K of my construction loan. I couldn't walk away from that. And auto mechanics? They have your car, your car doesn't work, and to get it back you HAVE to pay what they're charging, even if you don't like it. I've been reamed more than once.
When a car dealer does you wrong, you always have the option to walk away and deal with someone else.
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Hi, I am looking to buy a civic si 05, but the closest dealer is 3hrs away. The internet sales lady gave me a price for the car but I am afraid that when I get there, the deal may change with sale tricks.
is there a way that I can make this deal go as planned in the email?
I already had an experience where the internet sales person told me that my 2006 car is in after we agreed on the price, but when I got there it was a 2005 yr model and they tried charging me the 2006 model price. I left.
I am seeing if there is anything I can do to have no surprises in the deal...
I am seeing if there is anything I can do to have no surprises in the deal...
While all the suggestions above are good, unfortunately there's no way to know for sure if the numbers will change until you are ready to sign the contract. Even more unfortunately, it doesn't sound like you have a whole lot of choice in the matter if the nearest dealer is 3 hours away...
..**I agree that a dealership or any business for that matter needs to make income. I agree that MSRP is fair market value for an automobile. My desire to help people achieve a great price may not be fair to the dealership but... From all the deals I observed and listened to and all things the dealership does to make more money... the dealership is not making fair money---the dealership is making money that they should not be making**
It's not for you to say what is fair or not fair .. it's a business and every business has the right to charge what "they" think is fair -- not what -you- think is fair ......
Is it fair that Dick's Sporting Goods charges $249 for the new Ogio golf bag when everyone else is charging $149 ..?
... is it fair that every store on the planet is charging $179 for the new Nike golf shoes when the "MSRP" from Nike is $129 ..??
... is it fair that the couple in the next cabin on the last cruise spent $3,300 when we spent $1,800 ...??
... is it fair that the home buyer next door just paid 6.19% and 2 points in closing costs, when the guy he works with has the same credit and just got 5.75% and Zero points from the same lender ....???
... is it fair that Best Buys charges $2,400 for the new top of line computer when you can buy it on-line for $1,499 ..?
... is it fair that the furniture store down the street gets $799 for that plaid couch, and the store 15 miles away sells the same one for $499 ...???
**Negotiating Consultant** ......... we need to get you out more ...l..o..l.......
I'm certain you're a nice and honest person. On the other hand, I'm not sure you really understand the profit motives of a car business. They have many levels of profit (that's not a bad thing).
My desire to help people achive a great price may not be fair to the dealership but... From all the deals I observed and listened to and all things the dealership does to make more money... the dealership is not making fair money---the dealership is making money that they should not be making.
I think the difference here is, no one is holding a gun to anybody's head saying I have to buy a car at any given price, at any given finance rate, etc. The customer has their wallet. They can always say "NO". They can always walk out of the dealership.
Case in point, IF I don't check here at Edmunds for trade-in values, or what market values are, then I'm going in blind to make a deal. Same for finance rates. If I'm financing (rarely use a dealership to do this), I'll either already have a "rate" that my bank has offered they can beat, or I'll ask for manufacturer's "special finance rate". If someone wants to use the dealer's "finance services", then they're at the mercy of what the dealership's service costs. It's just like shopping for mortage loans. If someone doesn't want to negotiate the price of the car, then as some others have said, the price is what the MSRP sticker says it is.
I am not shocked or surprised by any of this. There is a reason why this industry has the "rap" it does. Clearly, the way things are set up (dealership network) is old fashioned and needs to be reformed immediately. The only thing is with the lobbyist organization the dealer has---it will never be done. The manufacturers should have a building set up - with various models currently being manufactured, do your test drive and pay a set price and then order via the internet. This would do-away with this shark infested dealer network.
where would you go for service work? where would you go for parts? what if you have questions about your vehicle? what if you need a body shop? what about the tax revenue generated by dealerships? what about the donations given to the local community by dealerships?
there is more to a dealership then just selling a few cars.........
just like all companies, it isnt always about the profit margin, but with that being said, a dealer can not do the things they sometimes do for the local communities unless they are profitable.
Look at it this way: buy yourself a franchise build yourself a $10 million dollar facility floor plan your inventory of $5 million you are paying interest on daily pay cash for all of your preowned cars that are depreciating every week on the lot hire employees and give them fair wages and benefits advertise
and now have a kid that has been selling cars for 2 weeks tell you what fair profit should be for you to make
Gee, the way you put it I just want to cry for the poor owner of the dealership. I feel so bad, I think I'll go out and buy a car, paying what they want me to, add on all the extras please, like rust proofing, scotch guard, pin stripes, VIN etching, etc. etc.
Oh, let's not forget gap insurance, choke and croak insurance, ext. warranty, and pre-paid maint. plan. And please, just tell me know what my monthly payment will be, that's all I care about.
Where do I sign?
LOL, just joking. I agree, the original poster is not cut out for sales, but me thinks you've taken this too far.
Are you a left wing liberal democrat or a right wing conservative republican?
"where would you go for service work?" You would go to authorized "service centers" . These would be independents trained by the manufacturer. "where would you go for parts?" Back to the manufacturer, where the dealer gets the parts, and then marks them up! "what if you have questions about your vehicle?" Back to where you bought it. "what if you need a body shop?" Again-independents-just like where MOST BODY WORK is done now. "what about the tax revenue generated by dealerships?" You would still pay sales tax-based on where the manufacturer's "showroom" is located and where you do the final paperwork. The internet would be used to order your vehicle, but not conduct the final transaction". "what about the donations given to the local community by dealerships?" You know, when I am negotiating for a vehicle, and the dealer says--"Well we give this and that back to the community". I just tell them I could care less and this doesn't justify me giving you several more hundred dollars for the same vehicle I could buy else where for less!
This "Dealership" business dates back to another era that is long since gone. Look at like this-YOU MUST ADMIT that something is terribly wrong, when in surveys people rank buying a car one of the most unpleasant experiences they have. If I were building a product to be sold, there would be NO-WAY I would want people to dread buying it! How does that make sense?
Comments
While I'm not in the car business, I do oversee support, marketing and yes, SALES in a high tech industry. While having only a very brief (and very successful) run in sales before I got into management, I can say that there are two things I look at. Both are equally important. First is good ethics. Just as important, is sales. If you can sell well ethically, you will do well. You become a "consultant" to your customer, not just a sales person.
Sounds like you've got the ethics part down. But, you still have to make your sales at the same time.
I can't imgagine unethical sales people being in the industry for very long. That said, I know for a fact, if you don't "make your numbers", you won't be in a sales capacity very long either. That's true of any industry.
BTW....I think everyone should be fired at least once in their career. It allows you to reacess, not only your job, but your career decisions you have to focus on.
And yes, I was fired once before myself. And looking back, it was the best thing that ever happened to me. Every time I've had to let someone go, it is the hardest part of our job. We hire people, not to fire them, but for them to be successful. If we have to fire them, that means we, as managers have failed.
I do use the same tactic, though. I do tell them it's the hardest part of my job. That said, they usually know it's coming well before the actual "firing" takes place.
You seem smart. You'll land on your feet and do well somewhere else, regardless of whether it's in the car business or not.
Some of the things that you listed ARE unethical. No doubt. But making a profit is not unethical. Even if I sold a new Caddy or Volvo for sticker, I may make 6-10% profit. Compared to other things we buy, that is not a lot.
Actually, the customers that I have had the biggest grosses on have been my happiest customers. :confuse: I guess they don't grind themselves into misery.
So if your a lousy salesperson and you sell 10 cars for mini commissions in one month you will earn anywhere from $350 to $1000 per month.
Are you thinking,"Well, gramps must have some money to be buying a new vehicle...so he isn't going to miss it...YEEEHAAA I'm gonna go for the "laydown" ?
Or, "Well, this elderly gentleman doesn't know about the market price for this vehicle...that's sad...BUT...I have a job to do" ?
Or, do you try to sell it for LESS than what you could have gotten from the senior citizen...like honesty. But, try to make it look good as to not arouse suspicion amoungst your co-workeers.
Take away the emotion and the hype it's a pretty solid principal. It's the reason people will return for years to the same dealership and wont go near other stores under any circumstance. Did I get proper value for my money?
Maybe the old man had been to a couple other stores and didn't like who he talked to or what they had to talk about. He then ran into someone who treated him with respect and probably had a good knowledge of his product.
Now we don't know exactly what happened here, but I will tell you that I sold many cars for MSRP. I never sold one above sticker. That would be taking advantage of someone. As far as the trade in, most salespeople will start with a lower number on your trade. People are usually going to negotiate, and trade is usually the biggest hurdle that we need to overcome. So if I start out at sticker on my car, hold back a little on your trade in, and we shake hands, then I guess I did my job well. If I were to tell you that you could get a lower price or encourage you to shop around, I would deserve fired.
I work to feed my family. In order to keep my job I must generate profit. Some deals will have more profit than others. In the end, it all balances out and we don't make anywhere near what most people think we do on a car sale. Thank God for service departments and body shops.
All of us realize it and none of us care.
You are welcome to reread my post and give me a straight answer if you like.
Plus, most people who get good deals, attribute it to their negotiation skills.... So, are they underpaying? Or, are their skills earning them a better price?
Besides, I like my neighbors... I have no problems helping them get the same good deal that I got..
But, if I get the good deal, because the last three people got reamed.. could you call me the next time, right after you get done with them? I'd like to be next in line...
regards,
kyfdx
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Let's turn this around.
Let's say you decided to sell your car by yourself.
You get on the internet boards and research it to death. Based on what you see and read, you figure it's about a 10,000 car.
Knowing how people like to grind, you decide to advertise it for 11,500 knowing you'll be happy to settle for the 10,000 you think it's worth.
First day of your ad, someone calls, and decides to drive over and see it.
After a short inspection and drive, they tell you.." I'll take it!"
They then proceed to hand over 11,500 to you.
Would you smile and take the cash?
Would you stammer awhile and say..." Uh...don't you want to offer less?"
What, Jipster would you do?
Just curious...
Almost the exact thing happened,as you have desribed in your post, when I went to sell my wifes 1994 Buick Century Wagon after purchasing her/our
A few people came over to look at the Buick. I believe we were asking $2,400 and our bottom line was going to be nothing less than $1,900.(it was in excellent to good condition with around 95,000 miles) Finally, after lowering our ad price to $2,200, a man(late 50's) and his wife came over a couple times, said they would like to buy it. The man was a postal worker out in the sticks somewhere and needed a lower riding vehicle in which to deliver the mail and get in and out of.
Anyhow, he asked what I would take for it. I told him I would take $2,000. He said fine...I'll take it. I was like :confuse: Asks if it's okay if he brings the cash over tomorrow and do the paper work. Well, we get to talking and all...he didn't even test drive the car. I go back over the details of the car...and honestyly I am starting to feel bad because I feel this guy is buying a car worth $1,900 for $2,000. So, we're looking at the tires and I tell him that since the tires aren't in the greatest of shape I'll give it to him for $1,900. He says fine...come over the next day and pays cash like he said and drives off.
Now, I have posted this somewhere else in Edmunds forums before about 8-9 months ago. If you don't believe me I would be more than happy to look it up...but need to be somewhere in 15 minutes now. The details may be slightly off due to the time being a while back. But, I believe it was for $100 or so.
So, to answer your question.I would probably sell it to your gentlemen for $10,000...if the circumstances were the same and all. Maybe, if he drives up like a jerk and does nothing but badmouth my vehicle, my house,kids and dog ...I sell it to him for $11,500.
Now its personal. It's MY house and I should get fair value for it. You put it up on MLS and since it's a sellers market now your broker says ' ask $339,000, lets see who bites'. You are ALL OVER that idea... and the first night someone comes to visit and says 'Ill take it'. Now its not $100-200 its $20000 !!!!
Actually its the buyer who controls the situation because until he says 'Yes, I see the value in buying this.' there is no sale.
Did you gyp someone or did the market move in your favor or was this buyer looking at $350K houses and found this to be a bargain?
You would definatly be a rare exception.
You see, by accepting the 11,500 you have not gypped anyone or done anything wrong. Your buyer saw good value at that price and was happy to pay it.
Some of the tactics you described are definately sleazy and sonner or later it will catch up with the people pulling that on customers. However I agree with most of the salesguys here that you have to look out for yourself too. Mini deals won't put food on your table or pay the rent. There is nothing wrong with making a little bit of money for yourself and for the dealership. And sending customners away to shop around may actually tick them off especially when they're ready to buy from you at that time. Asking people to buy the car is not pressure, it's your job.
Some people will shop around anyways without your suggestions, and some just don't care. For those that are ready to buy, you have to ask them for the order and sell them what they want.
Paying MSRP for a car is not a crime either. Imagine if a dealership that sold 150 cars a month sold them all at great discounts, or almost at cost. They'd go out of business, and you'd starve to death. They wouldn't be able to afford and pay for the facilities, the inventory, the staffing, supplies, advertisement etc.
On the other hand a sleazy delaesrhip that would have all of their cars way overpriced wouldn't last that long either because not many people would buy from them.
Anyways, find a nicer dealership where people will appreciate your honesty and skills, and don't send your customers away without asking for the order. Good luck.
VolvoDan I agree with you as well. The customers that pay MSRP or close to MSRP are the happiest customers I ever had. The ones that grind me to death and to the last penny always want more as it is never enough for them.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
my wife and i were selling a vehicle in good condition which was worth private sale somewhere between 1800-2200. we agreed that if we sold the car for anything 1800 or more we'd be satisfied. we had a young man and his father interested in it who initially offered 2000. they test drove it and the young man said he wanted it, but the father smartly indicated they needed a family mechanic to give it a look over. we said fine and let them have the car to get it checked out. the mechanic found some minor stuff, but nothing worth any significant $. when he returned he was negotiating with us in the presence of his father, and we ultimately agreed to drop the price another 150. if i stuck, i'm sure he would have still taken the vehicle. but that wasn't the point.
it was a pleasurable experience for us, and i'm sure for this young man.
did i toss money aside? the vehicle would still have been a good deal for anyone at 2200...
the point here is there are more people out there like jipster, and i'd like to think they are less rare than you assert.
well...the house has appreciated(sp?)in value, instead of depreciated as in the case of automobiles. I would list my house for slightly over FMV and hope to get my bottom price.
If my agent said list it 20k over fair market value and then someone said they would take it. Well, honestly I would probably jump up and down with excitement. Why, the change in heart...if there was one...I don't know. I suppose as you suggested the buyer saw the value in the house and was willing to pay that much...so it must be worth it to him.
But, in my defense, it is much more difficult to estimate the price for a house than an automobile. But, I do see you point...which is a good one.
Also, the gentleman buying my wifes Buick Wagon didn't seem to have much. He seemed like a real nice guy...and well, it just seemed like the right thing to do.
In our society this is the very basis of doing business... the buyer saw the value in the item so it was worth it to him. It's why some people will pay > $35000 for a Camry ( Lexus ES330 ) and others will fight tooth and nail for a price under $23000 on the same 3.3L SE Camry. There is more to value than just the price. A Lexus/Acura buyer cant be forced to do business at a Toyota/Honda store if they feel the product is not worthy of their money.
I try not to interject my values into someone else's decisions, most people resent it. I attempt to give them accurate information to allow them to make good decisions.
Negotiation is always awkward, I know. But if someone says, "I'll take it" before they ever ask about price, am I going to discount the vehicle one cent? Nope. I'm not going to put the brakes on for the customer and tell him to go shop and that he's paying way too much. I feel that if I did my job and took care of the customer while also getting him/her all hot and bothered about the car, I have the right to ask full boat for the car. Then negotiations start and whatnot, but I have no problem asking full sticker for a car, and don't have any problem taking it either.
There are good dealers out there, but no matter which one you find employment at, they're all going to share one common bond: they're in it to make money. You can have the happiest customers and the best surveys, but if your dealer only made $100 per vehicle and is having to pay you a mini on that, they'll get rid of you versus someone who has great surveys, happy customers, and is pulling $800/copy.
I also would vary my stance based on the circumstances and the attitude of the person who is buying.
Years ago, we had a house on the market. a couple came and looked at it with their agent. They didn't have one nice thing to say... didn't like the colors the wallpaper, our landscaping etc. They even made a nasty comment about the color the neighbors had painted their house.
But, they did make an offer, through their agent the next day. a low offer of course. We countered at full price!
The house sold two weeks later to a couple who just fell in love with it.
You did the right thing when you sold your buick.
I agree that a dealership or any business for that matter needs to make income. I agree that MSRP is fair market value for an automobile. My desire to help people achive a great price may not be fair to the dealership but... From all the deals I observed and listened to and all things the dealership does to make more money... the dealership is not making fair money---the dealership is making money that they should not be making. I would listen to the finance people tell the person that they qualify for 7.9% interest rate when they truly qualify for 5.2%. The client would ask, "I know we have good credit and my neighbor just got a car loan for 5% the other day, why can't I get 5%"? The finance guy would say, "Sorry, this is what you qualify for", and close the deal. LIARS.
Well, in my world of ethics people make a living fairly, honestly and with dignity respecting others and their hard earned money as well. For those sales people who sell automobiles at MSRP and those finance people who disclose the true qualifying rate kudos to you. For those who brag that they got a "lay down" took them on the trade for tons, and cheat them on the qualified interest rate.... I guess you are rich in money, pride, and honor ???
I do LOVE selling cars. I am looking into becoming a Negotiating Consultant for automobile buyers. I will assist with finding the right automobile at the BEST possible price. Either working for an online company or possibly starting my own.
Thank you all for your advice whether it was positive or negative (to me) I have learned from this posting. I love to learn! Learning makes it all positive.
1. You worked in a lousy store.
2. You belong in a different business
3. I'm not surprised you were fired
Either selling for what you believe vehicle/house/whatever is worth OR what the consumer thinks it is worth. As long as one is honest with themselves and the buyer...a clean and honorable deal can be made.
Good luck with your new job honesty.
Unfortunately, there are too many stories of the other type, that is: People get charged MSRP, plus they only get 5000 instead of 9000 for their trade, plus the interest rate gets jacked up from 5 to 12 percent, plus they are sold an extended warranty for twice its market value, plus they are sold all the mop-and-glow that fits on the paperwork. I strongly doubt that any of these people sees any value in having twice the monthly payment than realistically necessary.
I.m.o., here the line between selling and ripping off has been clearly crossed, and it is stories like this that make people get tense when thinking about buying a car (not everybody is hanging out on edmunds.com everyday and thus knows about the market)
And some of those on this board wonder why their profession is viewed so negatively!
http://www.blueovalnews.com/2005/legal/gt.100kprep29oct.htm
$143,000.00 for dealer prep....right!
General Contractor
Lawyer
Mortgage Title Company
Roofer
Auto Mechanic
The worst a dealership employee has done to me is get on my nerves; I find it much easier to avoid trouble at car dealerships than with the yahoos in the list. It comes down to what you know... I'm not sure why car dealers are so universally reviled, when they have so much competition... at least they won't set your house on fire like a plumber didi to a friend of mine.
As far as that Ford dealer: That's low. If he wants to charge that kind of money, fine, but he can't take deposits first. Not under the stated conditions. Good thing he lost in court.
-Mathias
When a car dealer does you wrong, you always have the option to walk away and deal with someone else.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
You don't by chance work in Tampa do you?
I am looking to buy a civic si 05, but the closest dealer is 3hrs away. The internet sales lady gave me a price for the car but I am afraid that when I get there, the deal may change with sale tricks.
is there a way that I can make this deal go as planned in the email?
I already had an experience where the internet sales person told me that my 2006 car is in after we agreed on the price, but when I got there it was a 2005 yr model and they tried charging me the 2006 model price. I left.
I am seeing if there is anything I can do to have no surprises in the deal...
While all the suggestions above are good, unfortunately there's no way to know for sure if the numbers will change until you are ready to sign the contract. Even more unfortunately, it doesn't sound like you have a whole lot of choice in the matter if the nearest dealer is 3 hours away...
It's not for you to say what is fair or not fair .. it's a business and every business has the right to charge what "they" think is fair -- not what -you- think is fair ......
Is it fair that Dick's Sporting Goods charges $249 for the new Ogio golf bag when everyone else is charging $149 ..?
... is it fair that every store on the planet is charging $179 for the new Nike golf shoes when the "MSRP" from Nike is $129 ..??
... is it fair that the couple in the next cabin on the last cruise spent $3,300 when we spent $1,800 ...??
... is it fair that the home buyer next door just paid 6.19% and 2 points in closing costs, when the guy he works with has the same credit and just got 5.75% and Zero points from the same lender ....???
... is it fair that Best Buys charges $2,400 for the new top of line computer when you can buy it on-line for $1,499 ..?
... is it fair that the furniture store down the street gets $799 for that plaid couch, and the store 15 miles away sells the same one for $499 ...???
**Negotiating Consultant** ......... we need to get you out more ...l..o..l.......
Terry.
(that's computerese for six Yes answers)
My desire to help people achive a great price may not be fair to the dealership but... From all the deals I observed and listened to and all things the dealership does to make more money... the dealership is not making fair money---the dealership is making money that they should not be making.
I think the difference here is, no one is holding a gun to anybody's head saying I have to buy a car at any given price, at any given finance rate, etc. The customer has their wallet. They can always say "NO". They can always walk out of the dealership.
Case in point, IF I don't check here at Edmunds for trade-in values, or what market values are, then I'm going in blind to make a deal. Same for finance rates. If I'm financing (rarely use a dealership to do this), I'll either already have a "rate" that my bank has offered they can beat, or I'll ask for manufacturer's "special finance rate". If someone wants to use the dealer's "finance services", then they're at the mercy of what the dealership's service costs. It's just like shopping for mortage loans. If someone doesn't want to negotiate the price of the car, then as some others have said, the price is what the MSRP sticker says it is.
where would you go for parts?
what if you have questions about your vehicle?
what if you need a body shop?
what about the tax revenue generated by dealerships?
what about the donations given to the local community by dealerships?
there is more to a dealership then just selling a few cars.........
just like all companies, it isnt always about the profit margin, but with that being said, a dealer can not do the things they sometimes do for the local communities unless they are profitable.
Look at it this way:
buy yourself a franchise
build yourself a $10 million dollar facility
floor plan your inventory of $5 million you are paying interest on daily
pay cash for all of your preowned cars that are depreciating every week on the lot
hire employees and give them fair wages and benefits
advertise
and now have a kid that has been selling cars for 2 weeks tell you what fair profit should be for you to make
Oh, let's not forget gap insurance, choke and croak insurance, ext. warranty, and pre-paid maint. plan. And please, just tell me know what my monthly payment will be, that's all I care about.
Where do I sign?
LOL, just joking. I agree, the original poster is not cut out for sales, but me thinks you've taken this too far.
Are you a left wing liberal democrat or a right wing conservative republican?
You would go to authorized "service centers" . These would be independents trained by the manufacturer.
"where would you go for parts?"
Back to the manufacturer, where the dealer gets the parts, and then marks them up!
"what if you have questions about your vehicle?"
Back to where you bought it.
"what if you need a body shop?"
Again-independents-just like where MOST BODY WORK is done now.
"what about the tax revenue generated by dealerships?"
You would still pay sales tax-based on where the manufacturer's "showroom" is located and where you do the final paperwork. The internet would be used to order your vehicle, but not conduct the final transaction".
"what about the donations given to the local community by dealerships?"
You know, when I am negotiating for a vehicle, and the dealer says--"Well we give this and that back to the community". I just tell them I could care less and this doesn't justify me giving you several more hundred dollars for the same vehicle I could buy else where for less!
This "Dealership" business dates back to another era that is long since gone. Look at like this-YOU MUST ADMIT that something is terribly wrong, when in surveys people rank buying a car one of the most unpleasant experiences they have. If I were building a product to be sold, there would be NO-WAY I would want people to dread buying it! How does that make sense?