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I have over 80k on my '98 A4Q 2.8 and no major problems, a handful of petty ones. They're great cars.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
As for the comparison with the 3-series, yes, BMWs are probably one of the best if not THE best for retaining their value over the years. But Audis are much better than average for resale value. Consumer Reports rates the A4 with a half red/half white circle for depreciation.
If you haven't already read the Edmunds' articles that are side-barred on this forum, read the one titled "Road Test: 2002 Audi A4" which is sub-titled: "Close -- Real Close" referring to the comparison with the 3-series. (click here for the article if you can't find it on the left sidebar.) Here's a quotation from that article that sums it up: "While the BMW 330i remains at the head of the class for pure driving enjoyment, Audi has masterfully rendered a more accommodating vehicle in terms of passenger comfort and price premium — a comparatively equipped BMW will cost a few thousand dollars more." This article is comparing the A4 3.0 with the 330i but could generally be applied to a comparison with any A4 vs comparable 3-series.
While I am a BMW fan, I will probably stay loyal to Audi until Audis no longer represent the excellent value which they currently do. Again, if only for the quattro alone, IMHO, Audis represent one of the best values available.
--'rocco
Is anyone aware of a problem with 98 2.8s or am I just lucky?
Audi's AWD is far more advanced than BMW's. I think the Subaru system (and the one on a Porsche) are the only ones that compare. Also, from a comfort, value, detail, and build quality standpoint, the A4 matches or beats the 3-series IMO. Its also a beautiful car, with more thoughtful details than I can list. I would bet that it would be about as reliable as a 3-series (they have their niggling problems too - check out consumer reviews on this and other car sites). Also, if you typically endure bad winters, then you won't get a chance to fully enjoy the performance advantage that a Bimmer has over an A4 for much of the year anyway - can't drive that way when the roads are bad.
The only drawback would be resale. Residuals and resale are significantly higher on a BMW. But, so is initial price and negotiating difficulty. So, I'm a believer that those things generally wash out in the end.
Again, I came soooo close to picking the A4. The 325 just felt more like a sports car to me, which I guess is more important to me as I near 40 years old. If we could get a second new car, right now, I would be hot on the heals of a quattro A6 or A4 wagon.
Best of luck.
Besides, the 3 series will have a face lift before the A4 . If you want a 6 cylinder wagon, the Avant A4 3.0 is your only choice as the 330ix does not come in a wagon format I don't think?
While I do think the BMW's are excellent cars -- they are mostly fair weather friends. The BMW is great and I am not suggesting otherwise. But beware of getting stuck or "slip sliding away" here in Cincinnati, and when I drive in western PA in the winter, I have found the quattro drive system to be a necessity.
If you live where there is even a light winter, and expect to use a rear wheel drive car, I suggest winter tires (four of them) are crucial.
While I also think you need at least all-season tires on your quattro in the winter, it is possible to go in the snow even with the summer rubber when all wheels are driven.
But, to make certain you don't think that quattro is for winter only, I still find the quattro difference can be appreciated year 'round.
When Audi's weight distribution becomes closer to 50-50, all I can say is BMW "look out!" And, this weight distribution issue should be resolved or substantially minimized in the not too distant future (EC magazine article July 2002)
European Car magazine free trial
EC web-site: http://www.europeancarweb.com/index.shtml
--'rocco
Not that RWD would compare with Q , but here in Dallas we typically dont get too much snow but ICE and Sleet much worse driving conditions.Ive driven my RWD 3er (Sport with ZR tires) full time all winter and can say driving skills are more important but the ALL speed traction control is very amazing.
1pierce: you will be just fine with your non sport 3er, if youve lived there long then you know how to drive in those condidtion.
DL
Yet after driving extensively between Ingolstadt, Germany and Seefeld, Austria -- and, courtesy of Audi, driving REAR WHEEL DRIVE A4's -- the verdict is rain, snow, ice, sleet or dry pavement -- AWD is the best system for the world in which we live and drive. Much as I lust -- I drive on US interstates and secondary roads. Perhaps RWD is better for certain things, but I have not found daily, normal driving to be one of them.
I asked the trainers at the [Audi] driving school what they drove in "real life" -- and most of them said AWD -- the one's that didn't said motorcycles. Now the question of what to drive for "racing" -- they all said Porches, and one of them, Walter Rohrl said AWD Porsches.
Go figure.
Drive it like you live!
One of our staff lives in Keller, TX (close to Dallas) -- believes in quattro, believes quattro is his all weather, not just slick streets, friend.
His other car is also AWD -- a pickemup truck!
I have absolutely no doubt that w/all season tires and the stability system on the BMW, I'll be good to go 99% of the time. And for that other 1%, I do have a 4WD pickup with new tires.
I wanted to like the Audi better, I really wanted to. It is just so much car for the money. And, AWD has been used by Porsche for decades,...and they know a thing or two about sports car performance. But, while the Audi is a beautiful machine, with a truly luxurious look and feel, and killer details, its going to take alot more than 50-50 weight distribution to make the A4 I drove feel as sporty as a 325i (w/no SP).
Don't kid yourself. There are many reasons to pick an A4 over a 325i. But the 325i is definitely, objectively, a sportier drive.
mark: I always respect you opinions and knowledge of Audi products and their capabilities as well as your invaluable contributions to the Audi boards, but a Quattro equipped Audi with Z rated tires is going the same place a RWD BMW with Z rated tires...nowhere. Z rated tires on anything are terrible in the cold weather and especially in the snow. I think an Audi w/ Quattro and all seasons or Quattro and Snows will outdo a similarly equipped RWD BMW in the nasty white weather.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I do not believe this should be the way things are done however.
With RWD, I'd never try it. Again, I think you can get by with any type of power train with good all seasons, if you know how to drive in the snow, and don't live in Maine or Alaska.
But, I agree, with quattro I have not had too much problem "going in the snow" -- now stopping is another matter. Four Z rated tires on snow at 25 degress F on a quattro provide nothing that could be called helpful in stopping the car -- in this regard an RWD car with 4 Z tires is just as useless (stopping) as an AWD car with Z rated tires -- go ABS go! Help ESP help!
My wife has two sets of tires for her TT -- and she likes it so much better that way -- even in our "modest" Cincinnati winters.
I am currently down to one set of tires on the A6 Q and only if I still have my car in November will I buy another set for winter. At this point, much as I love my car @ 25K miles -- I only have about 10 lease payments left, so I am thinking perhaps this time a manual transmission allroad might be fun for a couple of years!
If anyone knows if the Z rated tires are made of a compound that "doesn't like" the cold, I'd be interested in knowing if it is just my imagination.
I agree, driving any vehicle in snow or ice conditions with ultra-high performance Z or W rated summer tires is downright dangerous even with quattro, IMHO.
--'rocco
First, I am no way a know-it-all on cars...I just love them. I am also on 29 so I have not driven every car on the planet.
After cruising on interstate 77 in Charlotte last night and driving next a beautiful silver S4, I thought I would reflect on my overall experience so far on my ebony 3.0 quattro 6 spd. I got it 2.5 months ago with ebony leather, sunroof, heated seats, sport package, bose, and premium package.
So far my only problem(s) have been a new radio, and my gas gauge took awhile to read full after I filled her up yesterday. Hopefully I haven't cursed my self for future problems.
As far as driving....well in one word...fun. I am still getting used to six speeds and learning that quite a bit of power is available in 5th and 6th gears above 50-60 mph. Yes, I do concede that the BMW is quicker and I wish I had some more low-end oomph. But, when I turned off on my exit yesterday and took the nice "curves-and-hills" route, the 3.0 simply "went to town". I mean I had no problems blowing through the curves and hills. When it rained two days ago...same result. Flawless handling through puddles and the downpour. It was like giving a milkbone to my dog.
Gas mileage has been getting better. I usually fill up around a quarter tank (maybe a little less) and get anywhere from 220-265 miles. I have yet to do a long distance journey on the interstate....which will come in June when I drive up to DC for a family visit.
Despite the fact that I wish it had more low end torque (and maybe I should have waited for the Avant) I love my car and I have no regrets. I did go through a couple of days of "maybe I should have gotten the G35 for the bang for the buck." But there is something about the A4 that I just can't pinpoint...mystique? Sex-appeal? MOJO??? I agree with R&T ...As one editor succinctly put it, "The new Audi A4 is a mini-version of the flagship A8 -- for half the price."
Well, this may not have been informative but I hope it helps those who are looking at the 3.0 (or 1.8 for tht matter)and for those who are in my boat that have one currently. My only legitimate gripe is that I wish I waited for an extra couple of months so I could have taken advantage of an even better lease deal than what I got (not that mine is bad).
Thanks for your eyes (and ears?)
Edwin
thanks.
I have a 3 year old Jeep Grand Cherokee that I might be looking to get rid of, who do you think the best Audi dealer around Cinci is?
.02 on winter driving from a Buffalo native who learned how to drive in Chicago- I think that the stability programs are that control the yaw may be even better than the four wheel drive. We were driving up I-65 in my wives 330xi in driving snow over frozen rain. We were coming over an overpass only to see stopped traffic ahead. Since my wife was driving I definatlely felt the ABS and the stablity program kick in. I know my Jeep's massive tires, and ground clearance wouldn't have mattered a whit.
Like someone said, you get in alot more accidents because you can't stop than you can't go.
DL
I bought from Beechmont and had an overall pleasant experience. Mark has been enthusiastic and effusive in his praise of Northland. I liked Northland too; I went with Beechmont simply because they were able to get me an Avant before my old lease ran out.
On a more general note, the true measure of a deealership is how they handle problems. Anyone can sell you a car, but good service after the sale identifies the pros.
We do need help, too. If you are a software consultant familiar with Oracle ERP -- we want you!
I have no negatives about Beechmont Audi -- I have only positives about Northland. Although Northland was purchased by the Joseph Auto Group, the sales and service and support I receive has been constant since my very first Audi in 1978 (a 5000).
And, I totally agree -- ESP + ABS w/brake assist (this latter upgrade was added in model year 2002) are great technologies.
I took long test drives in both a 1.8T and a 3.0. Both quattro w/Tip. I almost bought the A4 3.0 - opted to order a 325i instead, for alot of reasons that I won't bore you with. But the decision was VERY close.
I would not have bought the 1.8T. Drive both. If you never had a turbo, I think you'll notice the lag between 1,000 and 2,000 RPM (The turbo kicks in around 2,000 RPM, after which it is quite satisfying). The problem is, in most US urban areas, you do ALOT of driving between 1,000 and 3,000 RPM. I always felt like the car had no low-end go at pull out, so I'd give it more gas,...and then it would launch at around 2,000 RPM,...and then I'd have to do a serious lift to keep the speed under control.
I could have gotten used to it, but it was just unnerving. With manual transmission, you'd probably notice this lag far less. If you can live with the lag, (and the engine is noisier, too), the 1.8T is a "Can't beat it" bargain for quality and features.
Chuck
Billy
The day before I went to pick it up, my friend helped me practice for about an hour and a half. I felt a lot more comfortable after that. When I went to pick it up the next day, I stalled a couple times getting out of the dealership driveway because I was really nervous, and I had never test-driven the car (I know, horrible, huh?), so I didn't know how it drove, where the clutch engaged, etc. But after I got out of the driveway it was all good from there. I was driving by myself, and I think that may have helped. No pressure from anyone else. It IS really easy to drive (like y'all say) and very smooth, and I got the feel for it pretty quickly. Later that night I went out and practiced some more on my own too. The next day I drove up to Davis (near Sacramento), and it started POURING!! I couldn't see the cars in front of me very clearly, but I kept reminding myself, quattro, quattro!! and I felt really safe in the car. THEN there was traffic! This was the first time I really, really drove stick by myself (like a normal situation) for more than a small amount of time, without the comfort of after-hours when there aren't many cars out, or a "practice" mentality. I was glad that I experienced traffic though so that I could learn and get better! I also wouldn’t turn on my radio for the first 48 hours because I wanted to get a feel for the sounds of the car and stuff. Anyway, like I said, I drove down to LA without any problems and now things are great! I love it! Thanks for all your help guys!
And for anyone planning to get an automatic because you don't know how to drive manual... try to learn! It's not as hard as it seems, and it's fun and worth it!
Now to tackle LA traffic....
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I also use Rain-X or similar products. I love driving in hard rain w/wipers in the off position!
Deedubs-Congrats on the new car and conquering stick shift! I bought a stick at 21 ('83 Toyota Supra) and could not have had a better car to learn on with a hydraulic clutch and decent shifter. Once you feel comfortable you may want to have someone teach you some more advanced stuff like clutchless shifting, heel and toe, and then on to trail braking and power slides. But you would need track time for the last 2. If not at least try and learn the first 2 as your enjoyment and mastery of the manual will be that much more fun. Keep us updated on the new ride and your progress with shifting for yourself. Happy motoring! Brian
Andy-- I used Rain-X years ago and quit using it because under certain conditions where you have to use the wipers, it left a white sheen on the wet windshield. It worked great at high speeds but at times I found that I had to use the wipers and when I did, the mentioned sheen it left became irritating. The people that use it tell me that you have to be committed to not using the wipers at all unless it looses its effectiveness rapidly. I've found that it's difficult to remove once it's applied. Personally, I prefer a immaculately cleaned windshield in combination with well-maintained and conditioned wiper blade rubber.
Jill-- I saw a brand spankin' new dolphin Avant yesterday and I thought of you.
Richard-- AudiWorld has an extensive 6-page article they published on February 10: Click HERE for AudiWorld article. A Motor Trend online says in this article of May 02 that it will only be offered with CVT in the N.A. market: Click HERE for Motor Trend article *sniff*
Diana-- Congratulations! Yeah, give us some more details and impressions when you can.
--'rocco
--'rocco
With the manual, even the 2.7T in the much heavier allroad is very quick, @ 6.8, compared with the V8's 6.7 (in a "plain" A6 4.2).
The upcoming W8 6spd should be able to be a little bit better or a little bit worse than most of the current model lineup of Audi in the 0-100kph department.
The Phaeton,according to Car magazine is not meant to compete with the A8, A8L or S8 (although I have stated my opinion that it seems for a year or three -- while Audi and VW make their market differentiation plans a reality -- that there has to be some cannibalization of Audi by VW). The Phaeton, I am almost certain, is about the same as the next generation A8 (chassis, engine, transmission). The Audi will have, IMO, more refinement toward "sporting" than the Phaeton.
But, theoretically at least, VW is gunning for Mercedes buyers ("classic luxury") not BMW or Audi buyers ("sporting luxury").
In cylinder count, I still think that a $50K Audi A6 2.7T with "only" a V6, may confuse segments of the market when they see (soon) a Passat W8 with sport package and manual transmission for $38K.
Today, I'd still put my money in the Audi brand, but I have at least convinced myself that the differences, many subtle, between the brands are clearly worth the extra $12K.
The Phaeton -- US bound -- I have read $$$$ commentary which says prices as low as $55K to just south of $70K (with a W12). The next Audi 8 family also will have the W12 (so says car magazines) available and if the current S8 with the expensive alcantara interior is any clue, could easily top $80K -- meaning, that VW is attempting to differentiate (although for a year or three, it is a rather transparent attempt, IMO) itself from Audi by having a slightly lower price point.
The magazines claim VW 95% of Mercedes at 80% of the price is the GOAL (or is that the target?)
I haven't the foggiest if they will achieve this on the first serious attempt (the Phaeton). But you gotta admire them for trying.
If either the Phaeton or the Touareg should be offered with a 6-speed manual here in the N.A. market, I'd seriously be a prospective buyer should I determine that I want to move to upscale vehicles. I'm impressed with both model's list of features and engineering accomplishments. But I'm positive that neither will be offered with a 6-speed here.
--'rocco
Am I being paranoid about the service or does the car have a lot of issues - in reality?
Also - the dealer is asking $21,000 . It has heated seats - sunroof - sport wheels - etc. Is that price in line - or should I haggle some? They said it was dropped from $23,000. The KBB shows $21,000.
Thanks for your input.
And what are the recurring problems which you are referring to? I know the earlier models suffered from front end problems but I'd be interested in any other drastically recurring problems you've heard of.
And too much car for a 17 year old? Well, I won't get into my personal philosophical reasons why parents shouldn't "give" expensive cars for their teen-agers to drive but this isn't the forum for that. *lol* (please don't take offense).
--'rocco
Deacref-The more info you provide the forum specifically about what you are planning to purchase the more informed everyone's advice can be to you on whether or not the car is a good deal. Notwithstanding the issues of late surrounding kids and cars I'd have to say that your daughter must be well deserving and she is lucky to have a father that is able to provide a vehicle for her; a safe one at that! The one thing that I have found lately is trust your gut, if it smells fishy, looks fishy, and it bothers you for some reason then walk away. There are many good used cars out there and when you find a good one with a good price plus all the other intangibles (dealer, salesman, service etc.) the choice will be easy. BTW are you looking at Audi Assured vehicles? Good luck in your search and keep us informed!
I'd like to share a story with the forum, unfortunately it is somewhat long plus it is late but it is concerning a used car search with my friend. I shall save it for another time.
Not to get pompous or pretentious but Have a Happy and Safe Memorial Day and let's not forget about the troops who are doing their jobs to protect all of our freedoms! Safe motoring.
Brian
To answer the details of the car :
37,000 miles - Red - auto / power steering - brakes / power windows -door locks / CD Changer / sunroof / Bose system / heated seats / Quattro - Tip / Trip odom and AC --- to name a few things.
I am in NC.
Problems that I read about ---
one poster said -- 'never again' tiptronic failed and the dealer couldn't resolve the problem.
others -
-rattles
-it did seem like dealerships differed greatly in how problems were handled. Some quickly - and others were hassled and problems not resolved.
- trunk problems
- speaker blew
- minor problems - and it took time to take it in to get it fixed. (Our dealer is 25 miles from where I live - so it isn't the easiest thing to get it to them).
-knocking noise in the front end.
#3689 - wrote - just out of warranty - and 'check airbag 'light came on. It was going to cost $600 to fix it. "ever since I've had it - fix one problem and another one comes up"
- leaking oil -- (32 k miles) $3500 to fix it
- front suspension - $1200 to fix it.
----------------------------------------
Just some of the things I ran across. I'm just asking - is this typical or are these just isolated - and the unlucky ones? I did read a lot of very happy / satisfied Audi owners.
I didn't mention - I have owned 5 Lexus' - and NEVER had one problem with any of them. However - their service jobs are rather expensive, too.
Anyway - thanks for the advice and I'll look forward to comments to these issues.
I don't like seeing a 17 y/o get a fine car like this. It just doesn't strike me as a "trainer" car(or maybe I'm just jealous cuz I had to work all my life to afford an Audi.)
Is you are unsure the "Audi-Assured" is worth the extra $$.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Plus - I just found out - due to an error by their marketing dept. -which ran an ad in the paper with an incorrect - LOWER price - the dealer said they will honor that price - which is close to $`1200 less than their original quote.
Thoughts ????????