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Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005
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Comments
If Camrys ever came with a GM badge on it, I suppose you'd all of a sudden find those attractive as well.
vcjumper, the new GP doesn't offer automatic climate control at all. In fact, the GP hasn't offered this in several years. I noticed this two years ago when I was seriously considering a GTP coupe.
gunit, I agree with you on the GP coupe although the GTO is what it taking it's place ultimately. The GP was redesigned in 97 I wanted a GTP coupe so bad, but being in college then I just could not afford one. Almost bought one two years ago, but the "de-contented" interior turned me off. I'm one of the rare who likes a good size coupe. The Grand Am/Alero and Stratus/Sebring are too small. A coupe the size of the Monte Carlo or GP is just right. The Monte is just not very good looking IMO and doesn't offer the supercharged V6 like the GP did.
orwoody : I'm hoping Pontiac wakes up this year and offers better cloth for next year. I think the whole cloth thing is a plot to sell leather though.
oldsman : Heated seats are key with leather up here. I think I may go for it next time as it's easier to clean kid's messes (or dad's for that matter). I would not say the cloth is cheap though, it's just a matter of bad patterns.
Here's an article/commentary from the Detroit News, where Paul Lienert discusses the possibility of Opel coming back to the U.S., and he contrasts two of Opel's new vehicles (esp. interior) with the new Grand Prix and revised Sunfire:
http://www.detnews.com/2003/insiders/0305/21/insider-171179.htm
FYI,
--Robert
The GP looks nothing like the CTS unless you are nearly blind.
Keep in mind the GM 24hr test drive for all you who are questioning the car. Take it and post back.
As for the plot to sell leather, that is a risky strategy. This is a very competitive class and forcing leather on people may well cost them sales by making the price uncompetitive. No, I think the geniuses that run GM and design their interiors think that people actually like this stuff. How far they have fallen compared to a few decades ago when GM interiors were the class of the field.
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Having visited Opel's factory near Frankfurt last year where the new Vectra is made, I just can't understand the hype... I guess that some think that any junk, as long as from Europe, is fashionable...
;-)
2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav
As I write this a beautifully restored '65 Impala convertible just rolled past my window. In those days GM knew how to design an eye-pleasing interior. Not any more. For a company that was once the leader, their current offerings are... I hate to say it, "shockingly unimpressive."
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I have said many times I don't care for the seat patterns and the bubble. Otherwise I REALLY like the car and the dash and the rest of the interior. I haven't had time to test yet, but i will in June.
Seems to me that you need to drive first, THEN tell us about YOUR comments.
Meanwhile, let others speak.
I have. With my wallet.
I ain't buying one for mostly the reasons that have been stated here. GM needs to know that.
We who do not like the interior are hardly alone.
I'll try again to move the conversation along........
Anyone out there driven a 3800 II and III back to back?
Does anybody know the 0-60 mph times for the GP and the GTP?
I would say the prev GTP did 0-60 in mid 6s. I test drove the GT and would estimate 0-60 to be in the mid to high 7s.
The new ones should probably shave a tenth or two from those numbers.
Once my exam is over next week I will take some time and test one.
The comments are appropriate, given the much-ballyhooed arrival of Lutz and his purported abilities to revitalize GMs car line. If the GP is any indication, he has fallen flat on his face. Trust me, nobody is more disappointed than I am. I wanted to like this car and had every intention of giving it serious buying consideration. The interior has dashed those hopes. The comments of Mr. Lienert, one of the more credible writers on the auto scene in Detroit, were dismissed by a few here as off-the-wall. I wanted to state that they were not.
I think GM may have a serious issue developing here. None of their new-car introductions for the last year has been generally well-received, from the flop that is the Ion to the mixed reviews of the CTS and now the GP. How many chances will Lutz get?
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:-)
But I agree with you that GM has to get its game together or else...
I'm still to see a new GP here in Texas. I've already seen ogres of Porsche Cayennes
:-P
, but no GPs yet...We all know that GM has been guilty of shortchanging their customers with interior bits. That's obvious. But I really feel that they've made a step in the right direction with the latest GP.
After driving the car, I was definetly hooked. There's performance written all over the GTP...and I squeezed all 260 ponies out the 3800.
With that being said, I will note that were things that were quite peculiar before and after driving the GTP. The first would be a loud "clunk" noise that seemed to repeat itself when I opted to turn on the air conditioning. Weird, huh? The salesman's reply? "That's with all new cars!" Yeah. Right. The second would be the ASTRONOMICAL gap under the dash. I couldn't believe that GM is still leaving areas that large untouched.
In the end, I was almost ready to forgive all the flaws after the ride. Very exhilirating to say the least. ALMOST is the key word.
ab348 : CTS has had great reviews over all. I'll give you the ION though. The GP reviews I've seen so far have been good though, even Edmunds liked it. Obviously you you must have some interest in the car if you keep coming back here, otherwise I can't understand your presence.
As for those still thrashing on the seat cloth and stuff... I suggest gong to the Pontiac website and sending them comments. I have several times - on the lack of auto climate control, lack of interior color choices, cloth choices, wheels, etc... I've gotten some eMails back, so somebody is reading the inputs..
As for my presence here, I think it is more easily explained than yours in places like the Accord board.
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orwoody : GREAT ADVICE! Complain to Pontiac, it's not like people here make any decisions.
Reg : It is kind of odd isn't it?
orwoody, thanks for the post, most refreshing. The 3800 III seems very peppy to me. Maybe I'll do some 0-60 timing in a parking lot this weekend and report back. We have dual zone in our SUV so I'm not too concerned about the lack of it in our GP. That said, I'm not sure why it's gone from the 04 either. Another question to Pontiac I suppose.
Maybe I'll do some 0-60 timing in a parking lot this weekend
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The first 04 Grand Prix I saw was a black GT-1 and I was not impressed at all. I just couldn't get past the material that was being used. As far as the exterior styling, I did like that quite a bit. However, I wasn't so sure I would be too interested in the car. I was debating between getting a 04 Grand Prix or waiting for the supercharged SS Monte Carlo in the fall. So, I kind of thought about that and then decided to take one of these for a spin. The first car I drove was the GT-1. I thought it was okay, but not something I would want to really spend money on. I then drove a GT-2 with leather and a sunroof. I liked that quite a bit better and was thinking that I would be interested in one of these, but not at the expense of not at least waiting for the SS in the fall.
At this point, I decided to drive an 03 Monte Carlo. I just mainly wanted to compare the interior feeling, the steering, etc. when the 04 GP was fresh in my mind. To me, there was no comparison. The Grand Prix just felt better and I really liked the feel of the interior compared to the wide feeling of the Monte (not to mention the 20 more HP that the Grand Prix will have over the Monte SS).
I then saw a Silver GTP that had leather, a sunroof, premium audio, info tech, and chrome wheels. I had to take it for a spin. It didn't take me long to realize that this was the car for me. I personally like the interior with leather quite a bit, but just couldn't stand the pattern in the cloth seats. I almost thought about waiting for a comp-G to check it out before I bought this one, but then kind of thought why since I liked this car so much. I could really care less about TapShift anyway (I have since driven a Comp-G and feel like I definitely made the right choice)
I guess all I am saying is that I think the complaints about the cloth seats are valid. I do think GM made a mistake with this choice. However, I do like this car quite a bit better then the 03. Granted that is my opinion and not meant to say anything bad about that car because it is a nice car, I just prefer the feel and the look of the 04 better.
Needless to say, I haven't thought twice about purchasing the GTP and am more then ecstatic with my new car.
Take care all!
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Results?? The GP squarely beat or matched the Maxima in every performance test. While Bob conceded the GP was not quite as refined because it's sitting on an older platform, there is no question this car rocks! Good marks were also given for quality and lack of squeaks and rattles.
ab348, the seat material may not be to your taste, but the car itself is good. You have to test one before you keep dumping on the car. There is nothing "screwed up" here, it's as plain as that. It's a fantastic piece of machinery and perhaps if you complain to Pontiac direct, they will change the material on the seats for you next year!
p.s. Great picture of Bob and Jim arm wrestling on the cover, very funny.
Sorry - I have been away for a few days . . .
First: Excellent time!
What was your 60 foot time?
Did you turn off the traction control?
Did you do anything desides nail the throttle?
Cheers,
- Ray
Who wonders what the various magazine 0-60 and quarter mile times will be . . .?
Bottom line IMO was, Grand Prix will give you more performance than Maxima or V6 Accord but you sacrifice a little in the refinement department. Seemed like Jim was impressed over all.
I still think that with this this car you get an average or better interior (base seats excluded) with a beautiful exterior and wicked performance. I can't wait to test one, it will be my next dealership visit in June.
Maxima isn't the greatest looking car from the outside, but the inside is interesting (though Honda does it better with less clutter). Wouldn't mind trying one someday also.
so it probably pulls better numbers......but overall, what did they say? We already know in terms of interior quality the Maxima is a definte step above and the exterior looks better as well. Traditionally Maximas have much better quality over the long haul as well. And I'd bet the VQ Nissan mill was much more refined too.
Then there's the issue of the Mazda6 generally being a nicer car overall than either of the two for less money.
So is that an admittance that they intended to put cheap plastic in it?
regfootball, the 6 is a nice car and offers great value, but lacks the performance of the GTP. It's also somewhat smaller. Not a bad competitor to the base GP with those terrible cloth seats though:)
Over all they came away saying the GTP out handled (especially wet) and accelerated the Max in every test and virtually tied it in braking. More performance with a little less refinement was the bottom line.
Old Max has average quality from what I remember in CR. It was slightly below GP in initial quality according to JD Power. Good but nothing special.
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/L- ayout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&am- p;cid=1052251633588
My favorite quote was this one, from Lutz:
"We have made great improvements, in things like graining of the plastics and some of our fabrics, but we admit we have a way to go to get to a world-class level."
Funny that he should mention the two things that are the biggest turn-offs about the car. Setting aside the question of how anyone could consider that fabric an improvement, they know there's a problem, but can't seem to do anything about it. How can they explain that away? If they know that's a problem, why don't they fix it? This is what drives me nuts about GM. I'd have to conclude that the bean-counters still carry far too much influence there. The fabric and plastics wouldn't cost much to do right, but once again the GM cost accountants shoot themselves in the foot. If those two things were better I might have a GP in my driveway already. As it is, it's not even on my list.
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