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Prices vary depending on the area. In the area I checked, left over 2003 Accords are listed at invoice price of $23,674.
A 2003 TL lists at Carsdirect for $25,913 including the dealer incentive. So that's over $1000 more than a 2004 and nearly $2200 more than a 2003 Accord.
The TL has Xenon lights, sport shift tranny (with bad reputation) and a 1 year longer warranty, but gives up more features than it adds (old design, no side curtain airbags, no XM radio, voice activated Navi not available, less horsepower compared to the Accord.
The price is close enough though that I can understand why some people would give up features just for the prestige of driving an Acura vs a Honda. Then there are also people who are hung up on the look of the Accord's rear tail lights etc..
There are so many stories about the cause of TL's tranny failure flying around on the internet and at different dealers... it is hard to tell which one of them is true. Maybe they are all true.
BTW, the tranny that caused so much aggravation to TL drivers was actually built in Japan and shipped here.
Richard52 - Your TL should have held its value pretty well. But, the reality is, that most of the depreciation is in the first three years. So, you car is not going to depreciate much more from this year to next year. If I were you, I'd probably wait a year. By then, the supply of TLs will have caught up to demand. More importantly, it would be nice to wait one year and let them work the early production bugs out.
Regarding first year blues - With Acura, there doesn't seem to be any "first year" problems. My wife has bought 3 Acuras, just when each new model was introduced (including '87, the VERY first year), and none of them has had problems of any kind (neither has my Solara).
Maybe that thinking only applies to domestic cars?
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Honda/Acura CAN do it. But why they have chosen not to give a loyalist like me anything to consider in lieu of a BMW 5-series is puzzling. The M45 and GS430 don't quite do it for me, but the RL isn't even a remote consideration with it's FWD, underpowered V6 and dinosaur 4-speed auto. The old Legend GS 6-speed, albeit still a FWD car, was a lot closer to qualifying for consideration.
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On the other hand, the Lexus is also a really nice car and probably a better value B/c TL’s are not being discounted…. or are they?????
* Interior is NICE as far as the quality of materials and layout goes, but I have two major complaints:
1. NO EXTENSION on SUN VISOR!!! This is a crime against humanity, as far as I'm concerned, and there is no way in hell I'd ever buy this car unless there is an after-market accessory that gives the same functionality. My daily commute involves sun on the left side going to and from work. I use the extension all the time and consider it to be a necessity.
2. No overhead sun-glasses holder is a screw-up. Yes, there are rubberized compartments for glasses in the door pockets, but I put my glasses there and they rolled around and made noise.
* Leather is better everywhere and there doesn't appear to be any vynil on the sides of the seats, maybe just on the back. But it's hard to say what material is on the back of the seats, since it's so taught over the frame.
* There is now perforated leather on the rear seats as well, which is great in most cases, but is really stupid, if you have kids. Spills that could be wiped off a solid surface will seep inside the perforated leather. This is the second reason I may never buy this car. I've had my share of juice and other spills by kids and it was great to have solid leather seats in the back. If I do buy it, I'd have to always have a protective pad under and around the car seats.
* The ride quality is greatly improved over the previous model.
* Transmission shifts are barely perceptible. AMAZING compared with 2003 TL-S!
* Wood (fake or not) trim looks great. I could never tell if it's fake. Carbon fiber accents are nice too.
* I didn't notice any improvement in body panel fit, but that's probably because you need a 2003 and 2004 models side-by-side for that.
* There was very noticeable wind noise at 60-80 mph, but I'm 99% sure it's because of the stupid wind deflectors around front windows and in front of sun roof that dealer put on the demo car.
* Demo car also had the underbody kit which, in my opinion, looks horrible.
* Road noise is definitelly reduced.
* The steering wheel is FINALY telescoping, BUT there is not enough range, as far as I'm concerned. I would've liked to pull it a bit closer.
* The center sliding arm rest is no more functional than before. The marketing materials say that it slides further forward than before, but I didn't find this to be the case; it's still too far back.
* The seats were very comfortable and the power lumbar support has a good range and is in the right place (unlike the G35, where it's too low).
* Trunk is definitelly a lot less useful than before. It doesn't have nearly the same height, which would thwart any suitcase stacking attempts.
* SWEET stereo system! Very clear and full sound. My car didn't have NAV so I can't comment.
* Nice wide padded arm-rests built into the doors. That's a great feature.
* Trip computer!!! I do wonder about its precision though because it was showing 14mpg average on our test car. Could be due to the way people drive on test drives though.
* Parchment leather is too light for my taste. I know that it will look bad unless you take care if it frequently. Camel color is lighter than on BMWs, I would've preferred it darker.
All in all, a great car for almost anyone and at an amazing price. Given that 2003 TL-S is now pretty much extinct (none in stock), you can't compare these any more. So you have to compare to G35, BMW 3 and 5 series, Audi, etc. Even at MSRP, the 2004 TL is a great deal, just like the previous model was, when it first came out.
My 2003 Accord EX V6 doesn't have extensions either, although the visor itself can be extended if used on the side. This is a change from previous models. My understanding is that it has something to do a potential problem with the extensions if the side curtain airbags deploy. I never did find out the details of the potential problem, though. So this may explain the fact that the new TL doesn't have them, either.
There are other more appropriate places to pursue this debate as I've noted previously here.
Thanks.
It shouldn't be a hard decision once you decide how much money you want to spend and drive both.
I think the debates on Accord EXV6 vs TL will start dying down now that they are not as similar in features and price as they used to be.
Has anyone dealt with the Huntsville Acura dealer...what has been your experience (buying and service)?
One comment on the new TL...I am curious about the interior color options available with certain exterior colors. Why would you not offer the gray/quartz with the Green and especially with the Red exterior. Black may look good, but personally I like the gray better, and it will not be as hot. Why not offer black interior with the white exterior (not for me, but it would look good).
Anyone seen that and can give reports vs. the parchment?
I'm leaning towards green with camel, but I'd like to see it before I order it.
I drove a Lexus, an EX V6 and a TL all on the same day and thought the Accord was a definite step down from the other two, though for a $24,500 or so price point, it's the best car in the class. It's better than the $33,000 Maxima I drove last night for sure.
I liked the Lexus' ride, but the body style didn't do it for me. I love the interior and especially the leather.
The TL is nearly as a nice as Lexus inside. Fit and finish -- as on the TSX -- are first quality. I thought the TL was a bit harsh on the ride the first time I test drove it, but after driving it today that criticism was put to rest.
This is a great car. I am going to have to wait 6-7 months until dealers start dealing on them. I hear cost is about $30,900 on the non Navi, so we'll see if one can be scored for about $31,900 or so in a few months. It's better than $33,100, though if I was in need of getting something right now, I'd go ahead and do it and make them load me up on at cost or free extras.
I'm still waiting to see one with a spoiler. I don't like the deck lid, especially for $400.
Not that that is bad. It is still far better than the junk they put in 50K SUVs.
The cars that I saw Sunday were extremely well put together.
This is a little off topic but if GM/Ford?Chrysler doesn't get their car act together they will cease to exist in another 10 years.
The Asian designed Camrys, Maximas, and Accords are in a different league altogether.
That's how the "side curtain airbag equipped" Accord works, and I speculated that, given their common design origins, the TL would work the same way. Sounds like that may not be true.
Anyway, on the Accord, the visor extends so that it leaves about 1 1/2 inches of glass between the b-pillar and the left edge of the visor. Works fairly well...
I hope you don't give in. If nobody agrees to these junk fees, they will be forced to stop playing this game. It's bad enough that people are willing to pay MSRP. Once these diehard people get their cars, the dealers will have to start discounting.
You would have to load the ES330 up with thousands of dollars in options to be close to the features of the TL and then you would still be missing alot that's not available on the Lexus.
Real wood is better than fake wood, so buy an ES330 if you want to base your decision on that.
People who buy ES330s usually want a conservative car with a soft ride, like a traditional Cadillac.
The TL is a sportier car than an ES330 while being more luxurious than the sporty Lexus IS300 or even a G35.
The exterior styling of the ES330 is so bad, that I won't seriously consider buying one unless the styling is helped a lot by the mid-cycle styling update in 2005 or 2006.
The TL is a different animal - fast, performance oriented with comfort along the way. The interior is more like high-end performance cars instead of like a Town Car. THIS is the image they want to show.
Meanwhile, the TL gives you just about EVERYTHING you could want in a car feature-wise, plus some extras, without having to buy countless confusing option packages (Kudos to Honda for this). It is NOT Honda's version of the ES.
My only reservation about the interior is that it seems a little too busy with the fake wood, aluminum and black plastic all clashing, and competing from space. On cars with Parchment and Camel they should have just used more wood instead of the aluminum look stuff. Acura is getting closer, but Audi is still the champ of interior construction. The exterior styling of the 04' models makes the old car look like a vacum cleaner. Though the new car is sort of contrived with the "character" line and floating lower door treatment. I almost think the TSX looks a little better, or at least "cleaner". All in all it should break a sales record for Acura. It's one of the few Japanese cars I'd consider buying, along with the G35 Coupe.
M
The ES330 configured (six cd changer, hid, VSC, heated front seats, wood steering wheel) to be similar to a base TL has an MSRP of $35,000 including destination. This is only $1800 more than the TL. Considering that people are getting $2500 discounts off MSRP on ES330's now, the price is more or less the same. Of course, the TL price will come down eventually.
The TL does not offer that many more features IMO. To use the XM radio, you need to subscribe. Only a handful phones can take advantage of the Bluetooth. DVD-Audio discs are few and far between. What else does the TL have over the ES330 other than higher hp engine?
I'm not dissin the TL by any stretch. In fact, if I had to choose between the two, I'd get the TL over the ES330. I'm just saying that the TL does not have many more useful features nor is it much cheaper than the ES330.
Have to settle for the auto though, wife tired of 5-speed.
You didn't specify which car you currently drive. The stereo on the 04 TL may not be spectacular, but it is WAY WAY better than the one on the 2003 TL. The main reason is that the 03 TL's stereo was actually worse than 2000-2002. For 03 Acura went a really cheap way and eliminated separate tweeters near the windshield. As a result, the sound was really flat, lacked a good spatial definition. I detected no such problem with the 04 stereo.
Also, if there was on a trivial couple of horsepower difference, it would be one thing, but 45 horsepower is quite a difference.
You are not going to get an ES330 for $28000 even totally stripped of options when even the invoice is over $29K and the TL will be discounted after it has been out for a while.
It is a little different buyer who gets the ES330 though. They are more concerned about quiet and soft ride than performance. I don't see debates on why the ES330 needs rear wheel drive on the Lexus boards.
$33,000 for an Acura TL gets you a semi-posh, semi-sporty car.
$33,000 for a BMW 330 gets you a real performance vehicle without much content.
Seems about right to me.