Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

ateixeira

You can lube any rubber bushings with a spray can of lithium grease (a couple of bucks) to try to quiet it down. If you have rhino ramps, it's easy.

I lube my sway bars also, usually when I rotate the tires.

-juice

fibber2

a nice big exploded diagram of the 2.5l H4 phase II engine showing all of the sensors, etc. I am not in need of anything at this point, but I have spent a lot of time looking under hood and studying - trying to guess at what was what. Short of spending $200 on the shop manual set, is there anything out there on the web??

Steve

ochssk

I've had no problems using my service coupons and having the dealer look into warranty issues at the same time. Be sure to fill out the customer surveys so SOA is aware of it. Maybe if they get enough bad knocks they'll change their policy.

Steve

subaru_team

mrk610

Hope all is well .

emmaline

From day one, I've had a problem with shuddering when I start up my car and put it into gear (2002 Legacy Wagon)...it is especially noticeable on cold mornings. My dealer had not been able to duplicate the problem...but it was noticed by an independent mechanic. My dealer has advised me to call mid-November, when "clutch kits" are going to be available from Subaru to remedy this problem. Hope this helps out anyone else who has experienced this problem. Emma

ladywclass

Awhile back someone posted about hearing a sound like 'rushing water' when the car first went out for the day. I hear that noise when I first get out in the morning. Someone else said it might be water in the door sills, etc. from plugged drain holes. If that is the case, how do you explain that I hear it first thing ... then no other time during the day ... and whether I am in rain/water during the day, I can hear it again the next morning?

hypov

When you hear it, have you a full tank of gas?
The gas tank is under the rear passenger seat. You'll hear the gas slushing around in there on a quiet morning or evening. More so with a partial tank.

-Dave

web3

Emma, This is the first reference to a repair for the chattering clutch I've heard. Keep us informed.

bkaiser1

I was very interested in the previous comment regarding an updated "clutch kit" for the shuddering clutches so I called 1-800-subaru-3 to get some additional information. Well...after 15 minutes of searching, they could not confirm that any new fix was going to be available this month. She said that she checked with several sources in the tech-center and no one was aware of any progress on this issue. Crap. I thought for an instant that maybe this problem would finally be solved...no such luck.

Brian

bkaiser1

So I just got back from the dealership -- this time for the paint. They took one look at the paint and immediately recognized the problem...adding that a "ton" of Outbacks had been repainted as a result of "crazing" from the factory. This is apparently a very widespread problem with cars leaving that factory.

If my factory warranty had not just expired last month (I've got 40K on it, but the car's only 20 months old) they would repaint the car, no questions asked. Out of the factory warranty (but under the extended warranty) they have to have a factory rep come in to authorize the work, but they didn't sound too concerned that it wouldn't get fixed.

I was quite surprised, actually, that they were so forthcoming about the problem -- it's the opposite of how they have handled every other transaction at this dealership [see my clutch rants].

Anyway, I hope to have the car repainted soon. Thanks to all here who offered their advice on "crazing"!

Brian

ateixeira

Glad to hear they're repainting for you.

Hutch mentioned something about a clutch fix, also at about that time, for his WRX, which his dealer was working on for him.

This would solve the most common complaint about Subies. Hope it's true.

-juice

fibber2

why something like 'paint' would expire with the mileage provision in the warranty. It is an item that should be regulated by the 36 month provision only. But I guess it would open Pandora's Box if they started making exceptions all over the fine print.

Steve

paisan

Would milage not be an issue? If you don't drive your car there is less wear and tear on the paint, IMHO therefore mileage is perfectly legit for that.

-mike

ateixeira

Yeah, you're hitting bugs and road debris. A car with highway miles may have taken more abuse to the paint than a city car, which never exceeds 50 mph, if you think about it.

-juice

bkaiser1

True, but bugs and debris have absolutely nothing to do with a fundamentally flawed paint job from the factory. According to the Subaru Body Shop that I was at yesterday, the cracks are formed when the clearcoat gets applied too soon after the basecoat -- the base is still trying to dry when the topcoat/clearcoat goes on, causing the basecoat to shrink somewhat over time.

I'm not asking Subaru to fix 40K miles of stone chips and surface scratches, but when the paint cracks (and eventually flakes off) it's not a result of exposure to the elements...it's a direct result of an improperly manufacturing process. Since it's a known problem with these cars, it makes sense to me that they should cover the fix under warranty.

They should be contacting me in the next couple of weeks when the factory rep comes in town, but they sounded confident that being less than 2 years old, they would repaint the car.

B

ateixeira

Yeah, on a new car I'd demand a repaint too. Hope they do that for you.

Chips/scratches are entirely different than the cracking you describe.

-juice

subie1

My 01 Outback has been a wonderful car through 37000 trouble free miles. My only complaint is that the front brakes squeak most of the time. The dealer said it was just normal brake dust. At 35000 miles a vibration/oscillation in the front wheels was felt whenever the brakes were applied, so I had the pads replaced and the rotors turned. As expected, this cured the vibration but the brakes still continue to squeak. I have searched back through the most recent postings but have not found anything. Does anyone else hear this on their Sube? Are there any remedies or is this just normal?

ateixeira

Mine are quiet and always have been, even at 48k miles with the original pads.

I'd have the pads scuffed. Or do it the easy way, find a wide open space, reverse quickly and stomp on the brakes. That should remove any glazing on the surface.

Also make sure the wheel lugs are torqued properly (70 lb-ft is fine), so the rotors don't warp.

You should have some surface rust, but after you've applied the brakes once or twice, that should go away.

-juice

secretariat

I am the owner of a 2001 Subaru Outback wagon with 16,000 miles on it. It has been a dream, absolutely no problems.

However, while driving home, the nasty check engine light came on. I checked my manual and it says it can be caused by a problem or potential problem in the vehicle emissions system. (What exactly is that?) Or, it can be the result of a gas tank that was not fully clicked and closed after refueling. In which case the light can stay on for several driving trips.

Since I am quite a distance from my Subaru dealer, I took it to a service station for my scheduled oil change and they suggested it was just a faulty sensor. The car sounds the same but I am obviously concerned. Does anyone have any words of wisdom for me?

If I take it to the dealer, I will basically have to drive out of town and sit with it for the day as I have no other transportation available to me.

jay_24

Patricia, Check the other topic you posted on last night. you just got two (or more) replies there.

subie1, Are the brakes sqealing in drive and/or reverse? Last january or so Subaru came out with a shim kit to fix brake noise when you are in reverse. It was common for many subies. Worked great on my 2001. Noise happened when backing out of the driveway every morning.

--jay

fibber2

Remember all of the late '80's - early '90's GM cars with aluminum hoods and peeling paint? Use of the car didn't accelerate the problem. If properly applied and with reasonable care, modern paint should last for years.

I am not having paint failure, but was annoyed from day one about the painting process. The Timberline green paint on the RR flank is speckled with Titanium (lower body color). The spots are under the clear coat, so short of a major body shop adventure, there is little that can be done about it.

Steve

peterson10

Which came first, the squeal or the new pads? In my experience, after-market pads are often selected for their "lifetime warranty"; a warranty offered because of the durability (hardness) of the friction-material. However, softer, shorter-lived linings typically grip a bit better and are much quieter; for myself, thats well worth the more frequent replacement. Maybe a different type of pad would be the remedy.
YetAnotherDave

subie1

The brakes squeal in drive and both the original pads and the new ones sound the same.

ladywclass

Mine had this problem shortly before I got a recall notice on it .. I also have a 2001 Subaru ... might check with the dealer to see if yours is part of the recall ... just a quick trip in to fix ... no charge

originalbitman

You can also check for recalls by signing up for My.Subaru.Com at Subaru.com.

bit

ateixeira

A solid light on the CEL is no big deal. Let whoever just clear the code, or reset the ECU by disconnecting the battery. Don't sweat it.

A blinking CEL means there is a real problem. If you get that, park it and call a tow truck.

The my.subaru.com web site is great. It even allows me to document the service I do myself, so when I sell it, I have computerized records.

-juice

ladywclass

Mine would come on .. stay on for 10 miles .. or 2 days .. or 4 hours .. and then go off ... come back on again a few days later ... stay on for a little while .. go back off .. come on and stay on for a couple trips ... etc .. etc ..

ateixeira

Reset the ECU. That'll kill that cycle.

On a cold engine, disconnect the negative battery terminal, wait 20 minutes, then reconnect. Start up and let it idle til warm, then drive off.

The only side effect is your first tank will return poor mileage. It'll run rich until it learns your driving style and leans out the fuel mix.

-juice

hammersley

Juice: Any idea if that reset procedure will work on something other than a Subaru? Mama's Villager has a CEL that I suspect is a sensor gone south. No harm in trying it, I guess...

Cheers!
Paul

subaru4me

Hi there,

I was wondering if anyone knew what it would take to upgrade my 2000 Outback wiper control to that of a 2002? I'm interested in the adjustable delay for the windshield as well as the fact that now they added intermittent wiper for the back window. Could you just replace the wiper control or is there more under the hood that would need replacing?

Thanks

brad5280

<< This is posted at "owners problems" page, sorry for duplication. Not sure where to get best audience for solution.>>

I want to express my appreciation for all those contributors (especially "Juice") for sharing their wisdom and generous outreach for help. This site was invaluable in my decision to buy MY 2000 Outback Limited wagon.

My friend just bought a 2003 Outback Wagon. She is 5'2" and must have seat fully forward in order to reach the gas/brake pedals.

She is very concerned with the min. distance she should be from steering wheel in the event the airbag deploys (internet posted is 10"; is that correct?).

She contacted the dealership purchased from and the service manager was quite abrupt and rude to her bringing her to tears, and not listening to her problem. The service manager even insinuated that she was yelling at him (so others in the office would hear him say it such that they would attest to it) but she NEVER raised her voice, and was very polite, etc. She got the feeling that the service manager knew exactly what she was talking about and said she was " handicapped and didn't know what she was talking about".
< She had researched and found on the internet that the newer Outback wagons were not suitable for SHORT people because they need to be right against steering wheel thus a safety hazard if airbag deployed. In addition, she has back problems and due to a slight bulge in the middle console nearest gas pedal, her right leg is slanted such that after long trips (1 hr +) she has extreme back pains. She has owned a '90 Loyale wagon since new and never had this problem on long trips. Likewise with rental cars prior to buying this new vehicle.

The dealership would not help her, despite the fact that she WAS a customer of this dealership for more than 12 years, doing all recommended service and spending 1000's of dollars in repairs on her '90 Suabru Loyale. They said the NEW car needed to be handicapped modified. She is reluctant to do this possibly spending $1000 or more, so she asked them to "buy back" the car and she would take the substantial loss in value - depreciation. They never got back to her. She summizes that if they bought the car back they would be admitting guilt and the fact that they knew about this problem but never told her.

Now, she either has to
a.) Find an appropriate company in the Boston/north shore area to retrofit the gas and brake pedals (they must be bonded/insured?), or
b.) trade car in for a NON-SUBARU product. She insists on having a WHITE car for safety reasons, and the Forrester does not come in white. She also needs a wagon.

If anyone in the community knows of a bonded/insured company that can quote retrofitting the vehicle for bringing brake and gas pedal closer to seat, please e-mail me at bchap5280@aol.com. If a SUBARU representative can contact me with some help, that would be great.

(I too am a Subaru Outback owner, purchased my car from the same dealership, and will NOT take my car back to this dealer for service in protest of their rudeness and insensitivity to my friend).

Very sorry for this long post, however it has been an extremely upsetting ordeal for my friend after spending $25K on a new car. Thank you all.

Regards,
Brad

steine13

... I dunno about this...

(i) how far away from the wheel is your friend? if it's more than 10", don't worry about it. if less, it's time to do something.

(ii) what's the dealership supposed to do? they already suggested a solution: modify the car. whether you call it a handicap or a feature, your friend's legs are short, she doesn't fit in the car. so we modify the car. the service manager should suggest a shop or offer to have his shop do the work, but she'll have to pay for it. there's nothing wrong with the car.

(iii) "admitting guilt"? what is the dealership guilty of? the car is fine, as far as we know. pedal extenders should help (try http://www.pedalextenders.com/airbag.html). If all else fails, get permission from NHTSA to have an airbag off switch installed... just a formality, and you'll have to search high and low to find a shop willing to do the work, but it's doable.. of course you lose the safety effect of the air bag.

(iv) part of the reluctance from the service manager comes from a natural and rational fear of law suits.

(v) your friend does NOT want to sell this car with a few hundred miles on it... subarus hold their value very well, but she'll still lose at least $4k if she does this, maybe much more. the manager doesn't want to be the first to offer her $18k on a car she just paid $24k out-the-door for...

(vi) why didn't she do research on this before she bought the car??? it's her responsibility to find a car that fits, not the dealership's.

(vii) as far as the uncomfortable right leg: she should use the cruise as much as possible, see if that helps. often, we find out features we like/dislike only after we've owned the car for awhile; this is such a case... but she should really try to keep it (see above).

(viii) if all else fails... find a private buyerk that'll give her max $$ and the buyer max value. Near Boston, that should be a cinch.

Good luck, and let us know!

-Mathias

East Lansing, MI

jerrys2

ateixeira

Paul: no idea, but what's the worst that could happen? A CEL? You already have that! ;-)

Brad: you can probably find pedal extenders at your local parts store. And yes, Virgina, you can certainly get a white Forester. Aspen White is offered on the X and XS Premium (the latter monotone white, as a matter of fact).

-juice

brad5280

First, thanks to those who posted responses.
I appreciate your help. Second, I must clarify and comment on the response from steine13 (you might want to carefully read my post again and you'll see why).

(i) She IS less than 10" from steering wheel, hence the reason for my inquiry
(ii) the dealership did not recommend a place to modify the car but chose to be rude and condescending to her.
(iii)The dealership would be admitting guilt in that they KNEW about this issue, knew she was short, and did not forewarn her when buying the car. Incidentily, I went with her and made the purchase for her.
(vi) I have a 2000 OB Limited Wagon and she rides in it frequently. She DID do some research. However, apparently not enough based on what she found AFTER buying the car with regards to this issue. The area around the gas pedal IS different from my car but not noticeable. She (and I) did do a test drive, but not for an hour or more which is when the discomfort occurs.

Thanks
Brad

hammersley

Juice: Good call... worth a try!

Brad: Your friend is gonna get slapped by the airbag if it detonates in a crash no matter how far away - it's the nature of the beast. However, as long as the shoulder/lap belt is in place, and she' not "crowding" the steering wheel, I'd worry a lot less about it. I've treated lots of folks for airbag vs. face arguments, and the worst I've seen is a nosebleed, or occasionally a facial cut from eyeglasses. Way better than the alternative.

I remember learning in Driver's Ed many many years ago, that if you can grab the top of the steering wheel with both hands with your elbows locked, you're at the proper distance from the wheel. Whether that's comfortable or not is a different matter.

Cheers!
Paul

jerrys2

Replaced the front and rear pads (Rayb. Blue Box Brk Pads), four rotors were also cut on my 2000 Outback Ltd. at 52k.
After about 2000 miles the breaks would pulsate.
I was in the middle of a 4000 mile trip at the time (Massachusetts to New Orleans and return) so I couldn't return to service center...independent, not Subaru. I will bring it in on Wednesday hopefully to get this resolved.
Has anyone had similar problems?
Also replaced original tires at the same time with Bridgestone Potenzas(Firestones had at least another 5-6k left on them but thought it was a good idea in view of long trip and winter almost upon us).
Had the tires balanced and rebalanced but I am still getting a vibration at high speeds.

ateixeira

The problem with having the rotors cut is that the original surface was hardened. Now they'll be softer until you replace them.

Check lug nut torque, though. Make sure the shop uses a torque wrench or a torque stick, and set it to no more than 70 lb-ft.

Actually, that could explain both problems.

-juice

peterson10

Sorry to hear about the ordeal. It sounds like perhaps the service manager lacks the requisite degree of empathy and basic manners for someone in the service sector. This is increasingly the norm, sadly. However, I agree that the only reasonable solution is for your friend to have the car adjusted to her and/or adjust to the car. I too (at a typical 5'10") find that the crowded gas pedal forces my leg to twist a bit, which leads to cramps on occassion (long drives). I use the cruise a lot! My wife (5'2") doesn't seem to mind the pedal configuration, although she doesn't like sitting so close to the steering wheel. That was one of our key points when we shopped for a second car. Our new Forester fits her so much better that we call it "her" Forester. So, if a pedal retrofit doesn't help, she should take a hard look at a Forester before switching badges.

toboggan

Fishdeck,

Don't know if anyone answered your wiring harness question several months ago (geeze, was that July?).
On my '98 OB the trailer wiring connector was behind the left side panel in the cargo area. It was a black flat connector.

Hope this helps.

Steve (Twin Cities, MN)

idahodoug

Turning the rotors thinned them, which made them more prone to warping. If you're getting brake pulsing, they've already warped and this is quite typical. As a recommendation, never have rotors turned. If they've warped and someone wants to turn them, logic says they're already thin enough to warp and thinning them further is not the solution. I replace them when they warp - you're paying for the labor to have them removed either way, but putting turned rotors back on means you'll pay for it again in a few thousand miles as you've just learned.

Don't drive long on new tires like this. The brake pulses occur at the same spot on the tire each pulse and create uneven wear that will permanently cause the tires to vibrate. Sounds like you have a vibration as well, but it is unrelated as it happened immediately after they were installed, yes?

So, get new rotors put on, and I also recommend Subaru parts there. You've already bought non Subaru pads or I'd have suggested Subaru parts there as well. Good luck.

IdahoDoug

ladywclass

Wondered where you'd been with your expert advice lately ...

bat1161

Once the rotors are "cut", any idea how long they should last? I'm just trying to get some ideas.

Mark

tonyf3

Just bought a used 1999 outback. Really like it. I am looking for a place for the upcoming 30,000 mi. Service. The dealer has told me that this is big one $5-600. Any help is appreciated thanks for your support. Tony

ateixeira

Mark: I'd guess a couple of years. I have no experience with cut rotors, personally.

That price sounds a little high for the 30k. For the 60k, which is a bit more comprehensive, it's reasonable. Depends on what they're doing.

-juice

ladywclass

I had that one done at the dealer and I can guarantee you I didn't pay THAT much! ($393) .. maybe THAT was too much?

idahodoug

Wow, Ladywclass - thanks for your kind comment! This board has been incredibly civil lately, and I appreciate your post very much.

The rotors will last until you have a hard enough stop to get them hot enough to warp. If this never happens, you'll merrily continue to use them for the foreseeable future. When the rotors are new, it takes a LOT of heat to warp them. As they get thinner from normal wear (or dramatically thinner from cutting/turning) they are less able to handle the heat without warping.

You see, brakes are very simple. They merely turn the forward momentum of your 3500lb car into heat. Just like when you slide across the carpet (don't ask) and feel the heat of a carpet burn. Your carcass' forward momentum is turning into heat.

The heat goes into the rotors, and subsequently is dissipated into the air and surrounding components. As this happens, there are briefly different temperatures in the rotor. Thick metal is structurally strong and can handle more heat without distorting. Thin metal like a pizza pan will distort easily. That's why when you toss a hot pizza pan in the sink, it will bow and twist when a bit of water is run on it. The exact thing happens to a thin rotor that's getting heated, and results in the wobbling / shaking steering wheel.

steine13

I don't want to wast too much band width... posted a lengthy description of a ratty '95 Leg over in the Legacy/Outback topic... your kind advice would be much appreciated.
-Mathias
East Lansing,MI (20F this morning-arghhh!)

jfl

Front brake rotors are 24mm thick, wear limit is 22mm.

Rear rotors are 10mm, wear limit 8.5mm.

All data from MY 2000 Service manual.

Jim