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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,710
    edited January 2011
    I suspect that the vast majority of readers here would agree.

    5 mpg is significant in these days of ever-rising gas prices. Most current mid-sized sedans have smooth-shifting 6-speed ATs with manual control--some even have 6-speed sticks. Some have nicely executed, interesting interiors. "Handling that rivals a Buick" is no longer a bad thing, with the Regal representing this class for Buick. As for styling that screams "rental car", nothing screams "rental car" more than a Pontiac... back when Pontiac existed as a brand. It wasn't good enough to survive, though.

    If all you need is a car to get from point A to point B, there's lots of cheap G6s and Grand Prixes out there to do that job. If you want something more, there's lots of great choices in the current crop of mid-sized sedans.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    So go online and get some replacement/original Holden badges from Australia. In the looks department, the G8 stands out as much as a Mustang or a Camaro - it's immediately clear that whatever just passed you was not a cheap rental car and likely had a big V8 in it. (the V8 version sacrifices 1-2mpg but sounds so nice)

    I just can't stomach the idea of driving such a bland jellybean. Note - the Accord V6 would be fine, but front wheel drive is a sin in something that large. If you had $20K to spend on a new or used 4 door car that could fit 4 or 5 people, what would you choose? Life's just too short to drive mediocrity.
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Posts: 936
    Maybe it's just me,but once I got all "growed" up,all I want a car to do is to transport me in relative comfort and safety.It also helps if it is efficient in gas consumption.Of course,that just my POV.
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    I used to think that too, until I drove a Prius and Camry for 2 years. After putting 60k boring miles in those mushy row boats, I got rid of them and got a Fusion Sport, Huge improvement in handling and performance, now my 86 mile daily drive is a lot more fun. It still gets decent MPG, but its a much nicer looking car, has enough room for us, and will be a very reliable car. Now if I can just find some decent tires for it that don't cost a fortune.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,710
    If you can't stomach the idea of driving a mid-sized family car, and must have a V8 muscle car like the G8... why waste your time in this discussion on mid-sized family cars?

    I don't consider cars like the 2011 Sonata, Optima, and Mazda6 to be mediocre, considering their price point. But then, I don't need to dash around in a V8 full-sized sedan when an I4 mid-sized sedan that gets mid-30s MPG on the highway and is plenty roomy and feature-laden for my needs (not to mention good-looking) is available for around $20k.

    Enjoy the G8. Not my cup of tea... and not a mid-sized family sedan.
  • dash5dash5 Posts: 417
    Heh this is like asking the PC geek what kind of computer to get. Top of the line graphics card a mountain of ram and super fast hard drive when all you're doing is email, facebook and looking at pictures of the kids on your 15 inch monitor.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,867
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  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,867
    edited January 2011
    A reporter would like to talk with someone who had owned or shopped a Toyota in the past but now drives a Ford or a Hyundai. Please email your daytime contact info to pr@edmunds.com by Friday, January 7, 2011.

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  • mtnman1mtnman1 Westerville, OhioPosts: 383
    edited January 2011
    After putting 60k boring miles in those mushy row boats
    I agree totally on the Boring description of the Prius. I will give up gas mileage any day for a pleasurable ride and something with a little oomph under the hood. I Unfortunetly believe that our current government is going to take away our choices by imposing more and more ridiculous mandates on Mpg for vehicles. Eventually we will have to take two tiny electric cars on a trip to carry our family and the luggage.

    Now if I can just find some decent tires for it that don't cost a fortune.
    I hear you on the tires. I have a 2009 Fusion SEL V6 and when I got a screw in the sidewall of one of my Michelins the best price I could find in Columbus, Ohio was $263. Don't want to spend a grand when it comes time to replace all four. Great handling tires, but not so good in snow. This is one of the best car buying decisions I have ever made.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    edited January 2011
    Concerning MPG, the average for a G8(or similar higher-performance midsize sedan) with a V6 is roughly 20mpg. For a Camry, it's 23MPG(fuel economy.gov)

    If you drive the U.S. Average of 12,000 miles a year, that's 600 gallons of fuel VS. 522. 78 gallons of fuel a year (X3.50 = $273), which is $22.75 a month more in fuel, even at today's crazy prices. It's a complete non-issue when you're talking about a 20-25K purchase. For the price of a couple of lunches each month, I'd rather own a midsize sedan that actually is fun to drive. I'd rather get slower internet or a couple less TV channels since I spend so much of my day sitting in my vehicle. (I know people who spend $20 a week on coffee...)

    Of course, if I put 50K a year on a car, I'd want a 40mpg+ car. But for most people, fuel economy is not a huge problem.(doubly so if you save an enormous amount up front by buying a 1-3 year old car vs new)
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,434
    some of us don't want to drive a car that big (to me, a barge). Some like Andre and Lemko might consider it a compact, but to me it is a limo!

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (daughter stole that one), and 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again)

  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Not everything GM (or Ford) makes is a boat.

    Though, to be honest, I'd take a Mustang over a Camry any day. 99% of the time I only have two people in the car at most, so why not get a fun car to drive? (yeah it's not a "sedan" - but that's mostly a styling decision versus it being a true coupe)

    And the kicker is that the 2011 model has a new engine in it that gets 19/31 mpg. It actually gets better fuel efficiency than a V6 Camry. Lief's just too short to drive what every other cubicle worker and accountant drives.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    If every other worker drives one then they must not be too bad; they're certainly not selling based on low price ($21k-$33k), so the "Well McDonald's sells the most burgers so they must be best - no they aren't they're just the cheapest" argument really doesn't work. They must be inherently good for what a large majority of the buying public look for in a vehicle.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Truly, McDonald's burgers are rubbish and always have been. No matter how you dress it up, mediocrity will always be exactly that at the end of the day. And, to be honest, why drive a potato-mobile?

    I sometimes wonder what happened to the love for vehicles that the U.S. used to have in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. It's now become acceptable to drive the equivalent of a laundromat washing machine. I makes me wonder where the meat eaters in our society went.

    If you want to drive a McCar, well, I suppose you're also the type that settles for McFood.

    Me? I want some excitement and even if it's only a little bit of the time, the feeling that I'm driving something a little different. Now, to be sure, most of these bland sedans are decently reliable and acceptable options. But you seriously can't tell me that a Camry isn't about the most soulless thing inside that's on the market. Even Buick makes a nicer interior, and that's more than telling. It's downright sad.

    http://www.subaru.com/content/static/fightmediocrity/photos.html
    Seriously. That interior is virtually identical to most everything Toyota makes. It would be almost comical if it weren't true.
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    I sometimes wonder what happened to the love for vehicles that the U.S. used to have in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. It's now become acceptable to drive the equivalent of a laundromat washing machine. I makes me wonder where the meat eaters in our society went.

    Let's not get carried away, sport. Some of those cars (particularly those from the 50s & 60s - not so much anything from the 70s, unless you're a big fan of portholes & landau tops) were great to look at. But if you could spend a day driving any of them, you'd walk away shaking your head & cursing your failing memory.

    With their bias-ply tires, drum brakes, loosey goosey recirculating ball steering & primitive (by current standards) suspension setups, they would be a handful on today's roads - & that's putting it charitably. You'd have to go pretty high up in the food chain - to something like a Chevy SS396 - to find something that could keep up with a new Accord V-6. Even then, the Accord would out corner & out brake the old timer while getting better gas mileage.

    I'm an old guy - old enough to have driven a few of those cars - & I'd love to have a '67 Pontiac GTO in my garage. But unless I could bring it up to 21st century specs, with 4-wheel ABS disc brakes, stability control, variable-assist rack & pinion steering & a few other things - none of which was even an engineer's pipe dream back then - I probably wouldn't drive it very much.

    Once you've gotten past the great styling of the 50s & 60s (let's agree to forget about the 70s), you realize that getting nostalgic about those cars makes as much sense as pining for your Dad's 15" Philco black & white set. At the end of the day, what you really want is your 50" high-def LCD.

    Nostalgia is fun, but technology rules.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,991
    People that frequent this forum, "midsized-sized sedan", specifically the cars that used to be pictured to the right(can't see them anymore with my browser) do so to learn and talk about those cars. You, on the other hand, appear to have no reason to visit here other than to denigrate these cars and by insinuation the people that are interested in them. You seem to pop in only to try to persuade anyone looking for info on buying one of these cars to buy something that they are clearly not interested in.

    I think there are probably multitudes of meat eaters that drive these cars even by your probable definition of a meat eater. If you define yourself or anyone else by the type of vehicle they drive then you have more problems than trying to find a good used G8.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,750
    ...good used G8

    The problem is that the G8 (in the U.S.) is a good car supported by a bad company for a short time. It's a rarity here and going to be a pain in the long term.

    You don't just buy the car, you buy the ecosystem that keeps it in parts and service over the years you own it.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    I've owned some of those older classic cars, and while it's true that most are rubbish, some are excellent vehicles to drive. But almost all of them were identifiable from a distance and had a unique style of their own.

    As for people who frequent this forum, it's "midsize sedan" and the board only allows for a certain limit on types listed(8 IIRC?), but it's really about any and all vehicles that fit this category(price or sportiness non-withstanding, though it's kind of implied that 20-25K is the max). If they come here asking about a midsize sedan and we start to also recommend vehicles that aren't the "vanilla bunch", I don't see a problem with that. In many cases, they can have a car that's at least as decent as any of the others but that doesn't scream "I bought this because I have a family and have no choice."

    Cars like a G35, or a TL (and similar) should also be included if they are open to the idea of a couple year old CPO vehicle. 20-25K buys a lot of used vehicle. Why buy a basic rental fleet box when you can get the same manufacturer's better offering for the same price used? Or if they have to have a new car, something like the new Ford, GM, or even Hyundai's offerings that are at least trying to make it look and feel better than a toaster.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,710
    Maybe there needs to be "New or Used?" discussion. Maybe there already is...
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,867
    One like Buying New vs. Used Vehicles?

    Of course there's not a general topic like that that's specific to Sedans, but it might be useful. I hate to get a used vehicle comparo topic with a lot of specific models in the discussion title, but there could always be one, like this, that covers anything in the category.

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  • I test drove a pre-owned TL and G35 among many others. Great cars. I chose the 2011 Fusion Sport because considering all the factors and features I wanted, I felt it was the better value now and for the many years I intend to own it. My friend you are beating an extremely dead horse with the new vs. used stuff, it really comes down to personal opinion and preference. Luxury sedans are not in the same category as midsize family sedans and there are plenty of reasons why many midsize family sedan shoppers may not want to own one.
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    My friend you are beating an extremely dead horse with the new vs. used stuff

    I'm inclined to agree. The Fusion is a terrific car. Even the cheapest 4-cylinder version comes with 4-wheel disc ABS & traction/stability control - features that were available only in luxury cars just a few years ago - if they were available at all.

    It's not clear to me what you gain by buying a used luxury car - unless you really wanted a luxury car in the 1st place but couldn't afford a new one.

    As far as I'm concerned, these are the good old days.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,991
    I'm running IE8 and all I see to the right on this page is the list of midsize cars in this discussion but instead of pics I just see boxes with a big grey "N/A" inside. Also see this N/A under each "Average Consumer Rating" and all the ratings show 0 reviews. Is this what everyone else is seeing or do I need to change my settings or something?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,150
    I have 5 boxes above a large, long box that says Learn More, Do more. That box is filled with N/A and smaller boxes with N/A.
  • tallman1tallman1 Posts: 1,874
    That's what everyone else sees.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,991
    edited January 2011
    I don't know if you know it or not but there are literally thousands, if not not hundreds of thousands, of people that actually aspire to own a new midsize cars that you are so quick to call crap or appliances. They actually buy these cars and feel that they've made it. For you to come on here and say that they are driving "rental fleet box" or "toasters" or "vanilla" or that they aren't a "meateater" like yourself is just plain insulting.

    You can talk about used midsized luxury cars all you want(you seem to always want to throw in a SUV/CUV or two while you're at it) as it's a free country and forum but I for one would appreciate it if you would do so in an intelligent manner. Constantly denigrating the cars that we usually discuss here as well as the people that buy them is pretty lame IMO. A lot of people dream about being able to buy a brand new midsize car for $18k. For you to constantly tell them it is stupid and they are buying an ugly, underpowered appliance is ugly in itself. Time to get off the high horse and walk with the common folk.

    I drive an Infiniti (in addition to a Mazda6) which may fall into your "meateater" category but hopefully my entire personal identity doesn't hinge on it.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,750
    I'm running IE8 and all I see to the right on this page is the list of midsize cars in this discussion but instead of pics I just see boxes with a big grey "N/A" inside. Also see this N/A under each "Average Consumer Rating" and all the ratings show 0 reviews. Is this what everyone else is seeing or do I need to change my settings or something?

    I guess when the emotorcons came out of hiding, the sedan pictures decided it was their turn to hide instead. :P
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Nobody feels like they've "made it" if they buy a Camry. They bought their car like they buy a washing machine. They looked in Consumer Reports and the other magazines (or online) and bought what they thought would be the most reliable appliance to get from point A to B.

    The interior of a Camry is shockingly sparse and made to be tough and survive rental car use. It's got a big engine but not much else. It screams "vanilla" from every angle. And the others seem to be trying to copy it, which is sad. The Fusion, (as an example) is the same price and offers a better driving experience. Better looks and better interior as well. Not by much, but why not consider "vanilla with chocolate pieces" :P if it's offered?
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    I am running Firefox and that is what I see too. Maybe the site is still under construction.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,710
    Yep, the Camry is just plain awful. Must be why Motor Trend named it COTY when it debuted. I would have thought they would have given that award to a Pontiac or a Chevy.

    Don't you realize that not everyone on the planet thinks like you do? Some people really like the kind of smooth, quiet ride the Camry provides. Perhaps the smoothest ride in the class. I don't particularly like the Camry, but I respect it for what it is and what it does well. And if someone thinks it's the best car for them, and that they've "made it" if they buy a Camry (which can go well over $30k, btw), great. Different strokes for different folks.

    Also, in this class, "vanilla" sells. (Actually, vanilla sells in other classes too, e.g. ice cream.) Cars with more daring styling e.g. Sonata are selling well too, but I have to wonder how that more avant-garde styling will hold up over time.
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