Looks like a great price to me, ca. $500 better than I can get in Phoenix now. GLS Auto, Preferred, Homelink, mats..MSRP is : $20,050.00, sell $17000 but than add one package fees incl. $400 doc fee OTD $19,800 Sale tax is around 9% here.
Year & a half ago, I had tried to find a manual at a deal, with no luck, & stopped looking. Out of the Blue, heard the Hyundai dealer had just moved a few miles & had a 'grand opening' with the normal auto dealer 'suck-in the sucker' ads. But I played a sucker & wandered in a day late, asking Ray if they had any low-ball ad GLS cars left. He said yes they did, expecting one with a color I hated, & no accessory packages. He led me to the red GLS, the only color I did love.
For $15,450, I had to accept the extra Preferred Package, carpeted floor mats, auto dimming mirror, mudflaps, auto tranny & a few other things. Never the one to hurry a purchase, I bought hurriedly & never looked back.
I was tricked for 125 in the last min even when initially they said 23200 is OTR price and they told me while I was signing that OTD doesn't include registration. I didn't agree with that but bought it anyway thinking that might be still a good deal as I already went thrice to the dealership in one week and I don't want to keep on going...
Does that price look good (for future reference...)
At Hanlees Fremont Hyundai in California MSRP: 19,905 "Cash Price" after discounts: 18,215 Rebate for using Hyundai financing: 1,500
Final Price (before TTL):16,715 OTD Price: 18,706
I didn't really negotiate. The "Internet Manager" just gave us this price. I chose exactly the colors and options I wanted, and they brought the car in from a different dealer. He said I could have gotten a better deal if I bought a car they had on their lot. I tried to get the Honda dealer across the street to give me the same price on a Civic with about the same MSRP and they said no way.
That is so funny! I was quoted exactly 18706 too! I wonder if they keep everything in a universal database or something. I haggled quite a bit and got the GLS automatic transmission with preferred options package, also the $80 cargo tray, $50 cargo net, and $110 carpeted mats for that price. That price did include a 152,00 mile trade in and included tax, license, everything else OTD price. I flat out told them the car was overheating and was going to blow a head gasket soon. I knew that because I took it to a mechanic and had it checked out before deciding to sell it because I knew it was on its last leg. They definitely did me a favor giving me the trade in value that they did. I did not opt. for the 1500 cash back though so that wasn't factored into the price. I would rather have the 0% APR.
I put 3500 down so we only owe a little over 15, 200 and my payments are only $254 a month. Hope this helps someone get a good deal!
Just picked up a 2013 Elantra GLS w/ the Preferred Package in California. Thank you to all who shared their prices and buying experience. It was very helpful in setting my expectations at the dealership.
Details of my purchase: 2013 Elantra GLS w/ Preferred Package Add-ons: floor mats, cargo net, cargo tray, first aid kit, mud guards, rear bumper protector, wheel locks
Thanks for your post. Looks like you got a great deal. I'm in California too and shopping for the same Elantra for my daughter. Do you mind telling me what dealer you purchased from?
Sorry for the delay, didn't see your message till now.
WIN Hyundai Carson and Cerritos Hyundai both offered me the same deal, so I would recommend checking out both dealerships if you haven't already. I found the buying experience to be very straight-forward at both dealerships. They weren't afraid to show you the actual numbers.
A question, with 0 percent financing why put $3,500 down? With a 0 percent interest rate it is free money. Not often do we get free money. Putting a large amount down actually reduces the benefit of the 0 percent APR.
I live in Georgia. I just bought a 2013 Elantra GLS with prefered package, auto dimming mirror with homelink, mud guard, first aid kit and carpeted floor mats. OTD price was $17,400. So far so good. I like it! For a budget car have a lot of features, nice design and decent Mpg. Cheers!
Just purchased a 2013 Elantra GLS with Preferred Package, carpeted mats, mud guards, and wheel locks for $16,000 even! 3 hour negotiation which got pretty ugly. Tried to charge me destination after it should have been included in the quoted price plus tried to charge me $300 for glass etch at the very end. Out the door with NJ taxes, doc, and MV came to $17,814. Nice car for the money but it didn't go smooth.
I have a question. Did you a $500 off incentive for being military, previous customer, etc. in order to reach the $16,000 price? Also what was the dealer's doc fee?
Can anyone tell me what money factor they have been getting for a recent 2013 Hyundai Elantra GLS Lease. I am looking for a 36/month lease and I am not sure what money factor I should expect. Thanks if advance.
Just sealed the deal on a 36 months /12K miles lease for 2013 Elantra GLS with Preferred Package.
My opening offer: $162 month, $0 down, excl tax.
based on: $17,192 net cap cost* 62% residual .00065 money factor
Agreed upon payment: $178/month incl sales tax (7.0375%)
Up Front:
$490 Bank Fee/Acquisition Fee $300 DMV/Title $178 First Month Payment $400 Accessories
Sales contract had a bit of alchemy in arriving at the monthly payment, but I was too tired to question things since the figure was within my range. Ultimately, the deal was a lot better than national promo of $159/month with approx $2000 down, plus fees.
* $17,192 this was the best price I could get competing dealers to volunteer over the phone. Most were reluctant to even give me a number over the phone. MF of .00065 can be extrapolated from national promotion.
Anyone have the rates (money factor, etc.) on a Elantra GT lease this month. Best rate I can get is $299 sign and drive for 36-months 12k with Style package...but that seems a bit high. Thanks!
Your price sounds very good for this vehicle. Have driven a few but on yesterdays trip across Southern Florida was the first time my back really hurt after the 2 hour drive, the first time this has happened in an Elantra and I have probably driven about 20 of them this past year. I am chalking it up to the vehicle having almost 17k of rental driver miles on it...no one knows how many big butts have used this seat since it was placed into fleet service, and believe me, the public really trashes rental vehicles. You would not believe the crap people have left inside these vehicles so I can just imagine how hard these vehicles are abused! Hyundai has done an excellent job with the Elantra and its looks are top notch. I am interested in the Limited model for the power seat it includes...a rreal shame that can not be a stand alone option. Which dealer in Westchester did you use?
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
I have been quoted from $17,000 to 17,500 for GLS with PP after deducting $ 1500 financing rebate. Tried Costco buying program, Carwoo and Amex car buying program.
Can anyone from my area share the best they have paid
I am in Northern Virginia and can buy from any neighboring states - MD, Delaware
I am about to make a deal and would like to make sure it is a good one. 2013 Elantra Limited Tech 0% for 72 months 0 down
$327 per month Total OTR: 23,544
Should I make the deal or how much lower can I get. I have negotiated over email with 5 dealerships and gone into one to try to get the best price. Thanks
I paid $18.1k OTD for a 2013 elantra GLS with Auto dimming mirror and floor mats as the only add ons. Was it a decent deal. I am in AZ where we have about 8.3% sales tax.
Despite the really nice rebate ($1500) or 0% financing on the remaining 2013 models, I assisted a family member who really wanted a 2014 "SE" (used to be called GLS with preferred package) in Titanium Gray; This was in San Diego:
MSRP: 20145
Invoice: $19582
Taxes: 1512.96
Doc: 80
Title/License: 245
Final out the door price(all included): $19,900
Not a great price, but not a horrible anal probe either. Same dealership would have done about $1700 less on the 2013, or $18,200 out the door.
Negotiated in writing for $16,000 "out the door" price for 2013 Elantra
GLS Auto Trans. w/Standard Package (MSRP $18,970.00)
in northern Va./MD area.
Price includes $2000 in rebates, (Va.) dealer processing fee,
local Va. county tax & 6% MD sales tax, title, tags & registration.
Can anyone do better?
2013 Limited - automatic, tech/nav package, leather seats and that package, had a spare, taxes, plates, and documentation fees. My registration is $260.93 and that's what I have to pay for the car - not the dealer. Out the door price was $23k. I thought it was pretty high even with a spare. Needless dealer add-ons (standard any place you go) were put on for a total of $1800.
I didn't see any negotiating. The salesman brought out something with his best offer. I tried to get it down $600 more and the man in charge said no. A manager showed me the invoice (another day). I asked where their holdback was and he bogusly pointed to shipping and items like that. That wasn't the holdback of 2%.
you got scammed. you shouldnt be paying dealer processing fee or PDI.
@Consiglieri said:
Negotiated in writing for $16,000 "out the door" price for 2013 Elantra
GLS Auto Trans. w/Standard Package (MSRP $18,970.00)
in northern Va./MD area.
Price includes $2000 in rebates, (Va.) dealer processing fee,
local Va. county tax & 6% MD sales tax, title, tags & registration.
Can anyone do better?
I purchased a 2013 Elantra gls with pop package and love my car. I'm in northern NJ and was referred to my dealer. I paid 16k after rebates plus tax, doc and mv. I never felt pressured and had a easy negotiation. Great Dealer (Towne Hyundai) and Great Salesperson (Tom). Highly recommend
At the end of the day, it's the bottom line price paid that's relevant, not what the dealer calls it or how he chooses to allocate the fees for his internal bookkeeping purposes. I could elect not to pay the "processing fee" but that wouldn't change the bottom line. I negotiated an "out the door" price; the dealer allocated the monies as he sees fit. Even if I negotiated another $1000 off the price, the dealer would still call part of what I paid a "processing fee." N'est ce pas?
At the end of the day, it's the bottom line price paid that's relevant, not what the dealer calls it or how he chooses to allocate the fees for his internal bookkeeping purposes. I could elect not to pay the "processing fee" but that wouldn't change the bottom line. I negotiated an "out the door" price; the dealer allocated the monies as he sees fit. Even if I negotiated another $1000 off the price, the dealer would still call part of what I paid a "processing fee." N'est ce pas?
Negotiated in writing for $16,000 "out the door" price for 2013 Elantra
GLS Auto Trans. w/Standard Package (MSRP $18,970.00)
in northern Va./MD area.
Price includes $2000 in rebates, (Va.) dealer processing fee,
local Va. county tax & 6% MD sales tax, title, tags & registration.
Can anyone do better?
That's exactly right.. It's the total price that counts, not how they break it down. You can spend all day railing about their processing fees, or just take that into account when you make your offer.
If they get you to focus on anything other than the total price, they win, and that's why they do it.
Exactly, make you best price your "otd" price and let them put the figures where they want, makes no difference to you. Always try to do that since Florida has those crazy fees pre-printed on every sales application...just ignore it and make your best price. Eventually, some dealership will accept it but you might need to raise it by small increments. Really hate buying a new vehicle because they do try to confuse us but just make sure all the figures and fees are understandable. It being a stressful time, so please, take the time to go over every figure carefully and then once that is all correct, do what you need to do and move forward.
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
At the end of 2008, in the recession, one Hyundai dealer sold two Hyundai Accents for $14,000. I met two people who paid $8000 for their individual Accents. In late 2010, I fell in love with the 2011 Elantra. I couldn't find a good deal on the popular car & never found a manual tranny. In May 2013, after the mpg fiasco dropped Elantra prices, I bought a 2013 Venetian Red auto Elantra with pref. package from the Ulsan, S.Korea plant, for $15,400, without tax & license, but without dealing. In June 2015, bought a last of the series 2016 Venetian Red manual Elantra for $12,800, without tax & license. Think I could have gone lower with the right talk. We've been very happy with both cars. The 2016 has better paint, smoother & quieter engine, quieter interior, more precise electric steering, & better suspension, while coming from the U.S. plant. Deal hard for the 2016 Extra Value Elantra for under $15,000(cool sunroof, pushbutton start & side rearview mirror signals). Try to demean their "military & student discounts", since they do that, as if they are sacred transactions only for saints. In truth, they do that to protect their outrageous pricing.
Here is what was an acceptable deal for me. April 2017 purchase: Brand new 2017 Elantra Value Edition, paid $15,200 + tax, license, title. MSRP was $21,415 . Suggested price including dealer adds at dealer cost was $21,658. Has anyone done better?
Hi. Does anyone know the current incentives (including incentives to dealers) on 2018 Elantras in 45202? I'm interested in SEL or Value Edition trim, with an automatic.
Hi. Does anyone know the current incentives (including incentives to dealers) on 2018 Elantras in 45202? I'm interested in SEL or Value Edition trim, with an automatic.
$2500 rebate, if you bring your own financing Or, $1000 rebate, if you take their 0% financing up to 72 months.
Don't know why this thread seems to be dead, Anyways, bought a 2019 Elantra Value.
MSRP $21,410 including freight Negotiated price (before Hyundai rebate) $18,537 (trucar did the negotiation haha + I added some of mine) TTL, Doc $401 Tax $1312 Total: $20,250 After Hyundai rebate of $2500, $17,750 out the door
Out of the rebate of $2500, $2k was straight up rebate + $500 incentive to finance some amount. I wouldn't have financed anything if it wasn't for the $500 rebate. Without financing, it would have been $18250 out the door
Gerald Hyundai. I think it was decent price. Thanks all & GL
Don't know why this thread seems to be dead, Anyways, bought a 2019 Elantra Value.
MSRP $21,410 including freight Negotiated price (before Hyundai rebate) $18,537 (trucar did the negotiation haha + I added some of mine) TTL, Doc $401 Tax $1312 Total: $20,250 After Hyundai rebate of $2500, $17,750 out the door
Out of the rebate of $2500, $2k was straight up rebate + $500 incentive to finance some amount. I wouldn't have financed anything if it wasn't for the $500 rebate. Without financing, it would have been $18250 out the door
Gerald Hyundai. I think it was decent price. Thanks all & GL
Nobody wants to share their deal, apparently.
Congrats, and appreciate you reviving this thread.
$2750 rebate if you pay cash or bring your own financing. $3250 rebate if you take Hyundai's standard financing (that is the extra $500) Only $500 rebate if you want the 0% financing.
Yes, the page I linked is for the 2019 SEL. What I wrote as "base" is (from the link) MSRP - discount - rebates.
Is there a pre-payment penalty to the Hyundai standard financing? Also, please pardon the noob question -- it appears if I take the Hyundai standard financing we would be at $17,220 (taking another $500 off what's above). How much lower should I be able to go given this is last years model, and the 2020s are filling up the lots?
Yes, the page I linked is for the 2019 SEL. What I wrote as "base" is (from the link) MSRP - discount - rebates.
Is there a pre-payment penalty to the Hyundai standard financing? Also, please pardon the noob question -- it appears if I take the Hyundai standard financing we would be at $17,220 (taking another $500 off what's above). How much lower should I be able to go given this is last years model, and the 2020s are filling up the lots?
Standard financing might be as high as 6% APR. Yes, it appears if you take it, the price would drop by another $500
I don't know for sure, but very few banks have pre-payment penalties for car loans, any more. Not sure I'd go through all the machinations just to get another $500.
I don't track pricing, so I can't tell you how low you can go.
I am in market for a Hyundai Elantra SEL 2020. The offered price starts at 18000. What’s a best deal for a Hyundai SEL 2020 (been a Honda driver all my life so far)
Comments
GLS Auto, Preferred, Homelink, mats..MSRP is : $20,050.00, sell $17000 but than add one package fees incl. $400 doc fee OTD $19,800
Sale tax is around 9% here.
Would like to get it down $500.
For $15,450, I had to accept the extra Preferred Package, carpeted floor mats, auto dimming mirror, mudflaps, auto tranny & a few other things. Never the one to hurry a purchase, I bought hurriedly & never looked back.
I bought a new 2013 Elantra Gt including Style & Tech Package with the below pricing
OTR Price:
23,200 (Sale Price + 7% RI Sales Tax + whooping 599 Doc fees + TTL)
+ 125 (registration)
+ 830 (2.9% interest paid over 36 months)
I was tricked for 125 in the last min even when initially they said 23200 is OTR price and they told me while I was signing that OTD doesn't include registration. I didn't agree with that but bought it anyway thinking that might be still a good deal as I already went thrice to the dealership in one week and I don't want to keep on going...
Does that price look good (for future reference...)
MSRP: 19,905
"Cash Price" after discounts: 18,215
Rebate for using Hyundai financing: 1,500
Final Price (before TTL):16,715
OTD Price: 18,706
I didn't really negotiate. The "Internet Manager" just gave us this price. I chose exactly the colors and options I wanted, and they brought the car in from a different dealer. He said I could have gotten a better deal if I bought a car they had on their lot. I tried to get the Honda dealer across the street to give me the same price on a Civic with about the same MSRP and they said no way.
That is so funny! I was quoted exactly 18706 too! I wonder if they keep everything in a universal database or something. I haggled quite a bit and got the GLS automatic transmission with preferred options package, also the $80 cargo tray, $50 cargo net, and $110 carpeted mats for that price. That price did include a 152,00 mile trade in and included tax, license, everything else OTD price. I flat out told them the car was overheating and was going to blow a head gasket soon. I knew that because I took it to a mechanic and had it checked out before deciding to sell it because I knew it was on its last leg. They definitely did me a favor giving me the trade in value that they did. I did not opt. for the 1500 cash back though so that wasn't factored into the price. I would rather have the 0% APR.
I put 3500 down so we only owe a little over 15, 200 and my payments are only $254 a month. Hope this helps someone get a good deal!
Details of my purchase:
2013 Elantra GLS w/ Preferred Package
Add-ons: floor mats, cargo net, cargo tray, first aid kit, mud guards, rear bumper protector, wheel locks
MSRP (sticker price): 17,965 + 1,120 (for PP & add-ons) = $18,810
negotiated cash price: 17,690
rebate: -2,000 (loyalty & financing rebates)
final price (before TTL): 15,690
OTD price (after TTL): 17609
Am very happy with the car. Only wishes are a quieter cabin (more road noise than expected at high speeds) and an auto-up power window.
Happy shopping everyone!
WIN Hyundai Carson and Cerritos Hyundai both offered me the same deal, so I would recommend checking out both dealerships if you haven't already. I found the buying experience to be very straight-forward at both dealerships. They weren't afraid to show you the actual numbers.
OTD price was $17,400. So far so good. I like it! For a budget car have a lot of features, nice design and decent Mpg.
Cheers!
Thanks
Just sealed the deal on a 36 months /12K miles lease for 2013 Elantra GLS with Preferred Package.
My opening offer: $162 month, $0 down, excl tax.
based on:
$17,192 net cap cost*
62% residual
.00065 money factor
Agreed upon payment: $178/month incl sales tax (7.0375%)
Up Front:
$490 Bank Fee/Acquisition Fee
$300 DMV/Title
$178 First Month Payment
$400 Accessories
Sales contract had a bit of alchemy in arriving at the monthly payment, but I was too tired to question things since the figure was within my range. Ultimately, the deal was a lot better than national promo of $159/month with approx $2000 down, plus fees.
* $17,192 this was the best price I could get competing dealers to volunteer over the phone. Most were reluctant to even give me a number over the phone. MF of .00065 can be extrapolated from national promotion.
Hyundai has done an excellent job with the Elantra and its looks are top notch. I am interested in the Limited model for the power seat it includes...a rreal shame that can not be a stand alone option. Which dealer in Westchester did you use?
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
Can anyone from my area share the best they have paid
I am in Northern Virginia and can buy from any neighboring states - MD, Delaware
Thanks a lot
I am about to make a deal and would like to make sure it is a good one.
2013 Elantra Limited Tech
0% for 72 months 0 down
$327 per month
Total OTR: 23,544
Should I make the deal or how much lower can I get.
I have negotiated over email with 5 dealerships and gone into one to try to get the best price.
Thanks
I paid $18.1k OTD for a 2013 elantra GLS with Auto dimming mirror and floor mats as the only add ons. Was it a decent deal. I am in AZ where we have about 8.3% sales tax.
Thanks
Despite the really nice rebate ($1500) or 0% financing on the remaining 2013 models, I assisted a family member who really wanted a 2014 "SE" (used to be called GLS with preferred package) in Titanium Gray; This was in San Diego:
MSRP: 20145
Invoice: $19582
Taxes: 1512.96
Doc: 80
Title/License: 245
Final out the door price(all included): $19,900
Not a great price, but not a horrible anal probe either. Same dealership would have done about $1700 less on the 2013, or $18,200 out the door.
Got a quote of 2013 Elantra GLS with Preferred Package with $16200 + TTL.
Is this a good price?
Negotiated in writing for $16,000 "out the door" price for 2013 Elantra
GLS Auto Trans. w/Standard Package (MSRP $18,970.00)
in northern Va./MD area.
Price includes $2000 in rebates, (Va.) dealer processing fee,
local Va. county tax & 6% MD sales tax, title, tags & registration.
Can anyone do better?
2013 Limited - automatic, tech/nav package, leather seats and that package, had a spare, taxes, plates, and documentation fees. My registration is $260.93 and that's what I have to pay for the car - not the dealer. Out the door price was $23k. I thought it was pretty high even with a spare. Needless dealer add-ons (standard any place you go) were put on for a total of $1800.
I didn't see any negotiating. The salesman brought out something with his best offer. I tried to get it down $600 more and the man in charge said no. A manager showed me the invoice (another day). I asked where their holdback was and he bogusly pointed to shipping and items like that. That wasn't the holdback of 2%.
$2000 in cash rebates now + the $500 loyalty/competitors/military coupons
Despite MPGate, would a base Elantra GT under $18k be a good deal?
you got scammed. you shouldnt be paying dealer processing fee or PDI.
I got a 2013 GLS for this:
18500-
1500 Rebate
1000 Trade (when in reality it was worth less than 200)
Free Remote start
+TTL
I purchased a 2013 Elantra gls with pop package and love my car. I'm in northern NJ and was referred to my dealer. I paid 16k after rebates plus tax, doc and mv. I never felt pressured and had a easy negotiation. Great Dealer (Towne Hyundai) and Great Salesperson (Tom). Highly recommend
2014 Elantra SE MSRP $20480 $17950 after the only rebate qualified for of $750 in Hillsboro, OR
2014 Elantra SE Automatic Transmission + Floor mat MSRP $19315 (incl. destination fee)
$15666 (excl tax & fees) over Memorial Day sale - didn't need it but needed to fiance portion of the price dealer to make some $.
That's exactly right.. It's the total price that counts, not how they break it down. You can spend all day railing about their processing fees, or just take that into account when you make your offer.
If they get you to focus on anything other than the total price, they win, and that's why they do it.
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The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
Or, $1000 rebate, if you take their 0% financing up to 72 months.
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MSRP $21,410 including freight
Negotiated price (before Hyundai rebate) $18,537 (trucar did the negotiation haha + I added some of mine)
TTL, Doc $401
Tax $1312
Total: $20,250
After Hyundai rebate of $2500, $17,750 out the door
Out of the rebate of $2500, $2k was straight up rebate + $500 incentive to finance some amount. I wouldn't have financed anything if it wasn't for the $500 rebate. Without financing, it would have been $18250 out the door
Gerald Hyundai. I think it was decent price.
Thanks all & GL
Congrats, and appreciate you reviving this thread.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
Dealership about 10miles from where I am has the following: https://www.hyundaiofcumming.com/new/Hyundai/2019-Hyundai-Elantra-480fbc550a0e0a17781528bce1fe02cd.htm Base 15683 + dealer (799) + 7%tax = 17,720 (approx). Offering $500 off if I use their financing. Thoughts?
$2750 rebate if you pay cash or bring your own financing.
$3250 rebate if you take Hyundai's standard financing (that is the extra $500)
Only $500 rebate if you want the 0% financing.
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Is there a pre-payment penalty to the Hyundai standard financing? Also, please pardon the noob question -- it appears if I take the Hyundai standard financing we would be at $17,220 (taking another $500 off what's above). How much lower should I be able to go given this is last years model, and the 2020s are filling up the lots?
Yes, it appears if you take it, the price would drop by another $500
I don't know for sure, but very few banks have pre-payment penalties for car loans, any more. Not sure I'd go through all the machinations just to get another $500.
I don't track pricing, so I can't tell you how low you can go.
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What’s a best deal for a Hyundai SEL 2020 (been a Honda driver all my life so far)