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Comments
I've only really driven beaters up through now, so I'm not worried about the S2000 being too uncomfortable for me, and I do have access to a larger vehicle when necessary.
What I'm worried about is just not being able to handle it. I've read about the S2000 losing control without warning and without allowing recovery. I can be discipined while driving, but I'm certainly not experienced and I'm not 100% smooth and perfect with my inputs either.
So is it possible to learn on the S2000 without killing one's self? Anyone put a lot of rain miles on theirs?
I never experienced a sudden loss of control in 2.5 years and 19,000 miles. On the other hand, the S2000 is a lighweight roadster and the OEM high perfomance summer tires are not great in heavy rain (and horrible in snow). I drove my S2000 when it was relatively new on a 250 mile highway drive in steady rain without problem. But I wouldn't want to make a habit of it and definitely not on tires that were near the end of their treadlife. Also, on the highway, the low sitting S2000 puts you in the tire spray from SUV's and big trucks, making it necessary to pay attention and have good wiper blades.
On dry pavement, the S2000 is an exceptional handling vehicle. If you are going to push it to the limit, I would advise taking a performance driving course. The older models do not have stability control.
Lastly, if you can find a 2002 or 2003 instead of a 2001, I'd strongly recommend it. In 2002, Honda went to a glass rear window, a stronger transmission and added a couple of other features.
If you are interested in seeing what an S is capable of, check this out:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7...4830688&q=S2000
Now this is a prototype in the video, but it is a pretty clear indication of what the car can do outside of the Nurburgring.
It's been a month since the fluid swap and Here's the dealeo: GMSM-FM did not improve anything significantly. It feels good in a way the shifter feels good after a fresh fluid change. Am I disappointed? Yes - Just a bit. Am I upset - Absolutely not! - I still love the S2K for what it is!!!!!
My Verdict: Unless you feel compelled to do something and are in the mood to try this out - I do not recommend it based on my personal experience.
Zaino has been another story, altogether. I did a 100% detailing once last month: Dawn Detergent Wash,Clay Bar, Dawn Again, Z5/z6, Z5/Z6, Z2/Z6, Z2/Z6 AND Z2/Z6 and a final Z6 one last time. Came out really great except: I skimped on the fresh cotton towel part so, I thought I saw more spiderwebs between the z5/z6 and the last and final Z6.
I drove it once in the rain and Zaino produced the most beautiful beads I have ever seen.
I did another 99.9% detailing last week: Z7, Z5/Z6, a partial Z5/Z6, Z2/Z6, Z2/Z6, Z2/Z6 and a final Z6. I haven't been driving it much but it does look priceless and it is well worth the pain on the Formula red S2K. I definitely feel the finish improves with multiple detailings. One more detailing and I am really going to be asking for trouble, seriously. I don't need sunglasses yet, like it says in the Zaino ads and it is by no means spider web free. But, it DOES GLEAM as much as if not more than a car inside a showroom. I am positive it will get even better after I invest 10 more hours. I will post my feedback on whether it really looks show car like at that point.
On the flip side, it didn't do a decent job on my Alabaster white ML. The SUV is also driven about 25K miles a yearon an average and exposed far more to the elements AND it is white. SO, I will let Zaino slide on that one. I also never bothered to do a second detailing since I wasn't so sure of what that couldv'e done.
I wouldn't expect a full finish on lighter colors but it is well worth it if you are investing all the time and money on darker colors.
Cheers!!
--njexpress
Good heavens, how long did that take? What does the clay bar do?
I have been using Maguires Professional #26 wax on all of my cars for 12+/- years. Takes 45 minutes, start to finish on my 911 Cabriolet. But if you think I'll really notice a difference with Zaino (Seal Grey color), I'll give it a whirl (or swirl), as long as it doesn't consume the entire weekend.
I've had bouts of depressions most of my life. As soon as I get behind the wheel I start smiling and I leave my bad mood in the dust. When I was little my parents bought me an electric kiddy car when I was 7. If my s2000 were automatic, I would swear I was 7 again.
If you're someone who likes the drive more than arriving at the destination, this car is it.
One word of advice, pick carefully your passenger and that he/she trusts you. Otherwilse, you'll feel like you'll need to drive it like a cadillac. Remember the car is more important than any queasy passenger! Friends come and go but you can always buy another S2000.
Now two suggestions for improvements. First a coin change compartment on the left hand side under the remote radio controls. and Second, install turn signal controls somewhere on the center console or stick shift. When you're busy watching the road and making split-second maneuvers, usually your left hand is on the steering wheel and right on the stick. It's distracting to take you hand off the wheel to use the existing indicater actuator. I think more of use would use turn signals too!
Hi Habitat,
A full end to end Zaino job takes 8 man hours on an average. I typically start around 5 PM (and wrap up around 2 AM) when it is light out yet not so hot, so I can do the Dawn Detergent Wash and the Clay Bar rub when it is bright.
Clay Bar = Detailing Clay. It remoes any surface contaminants or impurites, including metal dust, minute rusts where paint is chipped, brake dust etc... It is a good time to do any paint touch ups ater Dawn/ClayBar/Dawn. That's the reason I recomend starting at 5PM. There should be daylight left for the touch ups.
By no means will it be a whirl as you said ;-) It does tak a lot of painstaking work. It hurts the most from wrist down after you are done ;-)
For the swirl removals, I highly recommend doing it at night inside the garage as you can see the swirls better that way, under yellow light.
If your 911 is light colored, I'd say don't bother yourself.
But it is well worth it if the car is dark colored ( I am not sure if it is an ocean seal or a harbor seal you got there ;-) ). One word of caution though: It gets addictive looking at the finish for the first time and then you really wanna shoot for the best possible effect from that point on ;-)
Feel free to post any questions. You can find plenty of info on their website Zainostore - one word.
It could be confusing initially trying to understand the steps - There are just too many steps you go thru'. But the distributor was very helpful and extremely knowledgeble. I have heard nothing but good words about the customer support - teh gentleman who invented it markets it directly.
Good Luck and Cheers!!
--njexpress
The great finish is almost a side benefit to me.
JR
Anyone have custom seat covers for your S? I looked up WetOkoleHawaii.Com and I am also trying to do aditional research to see if there is anything else. More so since, the covers they offer do not expose the "Helmet Hole" headrest. I have some decent looking seat covers on my S from the original Owner - They are Type-S brand, Nylon, black with Red ribbed inner panelling - It only looks half way decent as the original seat and it is such an injustice to not expose the contours of teh original buckets!! I am curious to see if anyone has anything better, while preserving the original look of the seat (Not the sparco jet fighter kind..)
Cheers!!--njexpress
Good Luck and Cheers!!
--njexpress
I'd agree with njexpress, the S2000 and snow don't mix. Not to mention heavy rain in cold weather. You can mitigate that somewhat by getting winter wheels and tires, but it's still going to fall far short of an AWD sedan.
If you can swing two cars, an S2000 and something like my old 1995 FWD Nissan Maxima SE would make a great combination. The S2000 drives and feels like no other car under $50k+ on dry pavement with the top down. But if you are limited to one car and anticipate seeing a fair amount of snow, I think the BMW or Audi is a better choice. They won't be as much fun to drive as the S2000, but they won't leave you stranded in 3" of snow.
Also, where can I get a new soft top? And can I get one with the glass rear window for a 2000?
In all RWD or AWD traction control systems I am aware of, the torque is transferred from the spinning wheel with no traction to the other(s) that have traction. In a RWD, if one wheel is getting no traction, the wheel that has traction gets 100% (vs. 50%) of the power. It is "additive". There is no "multiplication" algorithm that blows up if the spinning wheel has 0 traction. Where the heck do you think all that power is going if neither rear wheel is getting it? To the stereo? Also, think for a moment of how blatently stupid a design for traction control would be if it makes things WORSE when you don't have traction in one wheel? Duh.
On the issue of what was happening in the previous poster's problem of going up a steep driveway, I suspect he induced some clutch slippage. It would happen to me occasionally in my 2002 under hard accleration, exspecially letting the clutch out going uphill. The S2000 has a gearbox that I would rate a 9+ out of 10. But a clutch that I would only rate a 3 or 4 out of 10 for strength.
My S2000 got the regular 7,500 mile services and oil changes at 3750 miles while I owned it (2.5 years, 20k miles). I would not take the S2000 to an independent mechanic. Honda service is relatively cheap compared to other brands and the S2000 is a limited production, serious sports car. My Honda dealer had only one service team (out of 4) that exclusively worked on the S2000's, because of the additional training required.
I'm not sure about retrofitting a new 2002+ top to a model year 2000. If you really need a new top for other reasons, start by calling a Honda dealer. But, if you don't need one, I wouldn't do it just to get the glass window. I expect it's a $1,000 to $1,500+ job. I have seen 2000/2001 S2000's advertised in the Washington Post for as much as $18,000+. They have great resale value. Drive your 2000 and if you really like it, you might want to consider selling it and putting the money towards a new or low mileage recent model. I know of someone who got a 2006 new for $29,500 a few months ago. Given the cost of tires, brakes, clutch, timing belt, possible new transmission and other things that you may need to put into a 2000, it might not cost you much more over the next 2-3 years to get a new one. You might want to do the math both ways before replacing your top (if it is optional).
How many miles does it have on it and what is the condition?
If you want the piece of mind, your 2000 model may be due for a valve adjustment and fluid change (gearbox, rear diff) as well as checking the Belt tensioner pulley...
BTW, that is one heck of an inheritence! :shades:
I will never take my S2000 to that dealer for service.
MidCow
I got a lot of good information from this forum when I was looking to buy a S2000 so thank you!!!! ....
At the same time, though, it almost scared me off of the 2000. I am so glad I bought one. Just wanted to give another opinion from an xTR3 Sports Car fan looking for a sports car again.
Noise....what noise!!! I almost didn't buy one thinking it was way too loud. You can run this car and the noise isn't a problem with top up or down. Radio is great. It is roomy in the trunk. We travel to the shore every weekend and have plenty of room for 2 small bags, laptops, and a few other items. If you are someone who has been trying to figure out which sports car you should buy....this is the one. It drives like a dream, you get good gas mileage, the inside of this car is comfortable....5'7". Great Seats....
There are a lot of couples out there who always wanted a sports car or had one in their younger days....I loved my TR3. I drove the Nizzan, Miata, and others and I am so glad I decided on the S2000. For anyone who is looking for a great car...this is it! Buy it, you'll love it. We bought a silverstone with black interior. We will most likely store it from November to Spring but we are going to enjoy this car and use it to go to the shore on weekends and not be concerned with saving it. Life is too short, we plan on enjoying it! This is a 50+ driver with no complaints!!!! Thanks Honda for a Great Gift! That's the way we feel!
Would you pay $47,000 +/- for a Honda S3000? Specs would be:
- 3.0 liter lightweight V6 with 350 hp / 240 ft lbs of torque; 8,500 rpm redline
- Upgraded suspension, wheels/tires, brakes to go along with engine.
-Upgraded clutch. NO friggin SMG/DSG. The current gearbox/shifter is perfect.
- Slightly more amenities inside (power seats, upgraded stereo, optional nav, but still sticking with the no-nonsense S2000 approach to performance first, do-dads second.
- Hideaway top with a mechanical boot similar to Boxster / 911. Plus a few tweaks to move the exterior away from Miata and towards Ferrari.
Target performance would be:
0-60 in 4.5 seconds (compare to 5.5+ now, Boxster S at 5.0)
1/4 mile in under 13.0 (compare to 14.2+ now, Boxster S at 13.5, 911S at 12.5)
Skidpad @ 1.0+ g
Retain go-cart like handling, with curb weight of no more than 2,950 lbs.
Although the subject of such a car came up over pizza and beer, it isn't a completely rhetorical question. It was with a business school classmate of mine who sold his company a few years ago and pocketed about $500 million. We speculated that with a couple thousand pre-orders in hand, we could underwrite a deal with Honda to get them to custom produce such a vehicle, in a limited production run of, say 4-5,000 units. It could be the swan song of the S2000.
Any takers? And no, there won't be any rebates, invoice pricing or anything like that. I realize that the high $40's price is a hefty premium over the current S2000, but the car would handily exceed the former NSX in perfomance and be a big notch up from a $60,000 Boxster S. The BMW M Roadster might as well stop production.
I think I'd opt for the turbo-4 from the RDX rather than the say, a J30 but that's just because I like to work for the power, a V6 may be "too easy" to drive... :P
But sign me up if it ever came to fruition.
I'd absolutely require it be made at the current plant in Japan - the fit and finish on my 2002 model was exceptional.
On the hdeaway top / mechanical boot, that's not a big deal, but was one of my personal aesthetic issues with the S2000. It looked nice with the top down and the (hand installed) boot on, but I didn't go through that pain in the rear installation process more than 3-4 times in my 2.5 years. I actually forgot to put the boot in the trunk when I traded in the car and nobody noticed.
I think the high revving V-6 would be the best of both worlds - enough low end torque to be easy to drive around town, but a free-revving 8,500+ rpm redline to reward those who like to "work" for power and performance. I'm not throwing out the things that endeared me to my old S2000, just pumping them up a bit.
O.K., only 3,996 sales to go....
Come on everyone, put your votes in!
this wont work if all your wheels are stuck or if the wheels which arnt stuck have barely any traction at all (like in winter through 5 inches of snow)
and to clarify a torsen differential uses worm gears which can vary the amount of torque between each output side, the gear ratios used will determine the maximum torque split for example a system that can split up the torque to a maximum ratio of 1:10 means the one side can recieve 10 times the torque of the other side, but if one side has no traction at all, and thus cannot put any torque down, neither will the opposing side
an open differential is always 1:1, meaning both sides recieve the same amount of torque, clutch based LSDs have self locking capabilities and WOULD be able to put power down even when an axle has no grip whatsoever, this is because the clutches within the differential litteraly lock up both output axles
given the choice i will still take the s2000 style torsen diff because it requires very little maintenence while clutch type LSDs need to be overhauled if you exploit them too much
MidCow
2006 S2000
Would you pay $47,000 +/- for a Honda S3000? Specs would be: [SNIP]
Sorry, but the S2000 is almost perfect as-is and I think you'd lose the flavor of the car with your proposed mods. I paid only $30,000 for a new 2006 S2000 this Spring and when the end of the line REALLY arrives, I'll probably buy another and put it in storage. It's the kind of car that defines the word "classic". Besides the Porsche 911 and Ford GT40, I know of no other current production cars that I'd consider worthy of putting away for my own future use.
What I would pay extra for (another $5000 or so) is the S2XXX:
- Upgraded clutch worthy of what is probably the best shifter seen in ANY current production car.
- Further reinforcing of engine block to allow the return of that 9000 RPM redline.
In the meantime I'll remain content, knowing I'm driving a vehicle that gives me 95% of the driving thrills of Porsche's best vehicles at around 1/4 the cost, yet is reliable, gets good fuel economy, has a surprisingly roomy trunk and is driven by some of the smartest, best looking people in the world ...
Thanks for your replies. It is hard to argue that the current S2000 isn't flirting with perfection - at least at the performance levels and price point it is at. I did prefer my 9,000 rpm 2.0 liter 2002 model to the current 2.2 liter version, but not by much.
It looks like the S3000 won't become my pet project. Not if I have to buy 4,995 of the 5,000 limited production run myself, anyway. But I do think the S3000 could be done in a way to keep the positives of the S2000, but elevating performance to the level approaching the former Ferrari 360. At which time, I'd probably be asking, Honda S4000 anyone?
Enjoy your S2000's.
Part of the magic of my '06 S2000 is that I drive it around thinking about how much smarter (and better looking) I am paying $399/mo for amazing performance, than all the poseurs driving their expensive German sport cars paying out their noses for the marque.
It seems like it would be very easy to increase the air flow by removing the baffle or opening up the baffle box all together.
Any comments? /Opinions?
Thanks,
MidCow
First of all, I am 22 and have been driving for 5 years. The only car I have owned is a 1993 mazda mx3. I don't know much about cars nor do I have much experience with driving a car that is as intense and serious as the s2000. However, I am willing to learn. The question is; is the s2000 a good place to start? This may be an odd question because it seems that most of you who have already driven or own this car are experienced enthusiasts. I know what I want; I want a fast, powerful car that is insanely fun to drive and involves skill on the drivers part to utilize the cars potential power. I don't care about the storage capacity, how many people it can seat, or the "dated" (which its not, I think it looks awesome) interior. I just want a fun, driver oriented car. I plan on leasing one for 3-4 years. I only recently developed a passion for cars and plan on using the s2000 to "break me in." Plus I'm going to take an auto mechanics/technology class at my college this coming winter to learn a thing or two about cars (as of now, I am very ignorant). So the bottom line: is the s2000 a good choice for a performance driving neophyte such as myself? Any tips on how I can get acquainted with the car and become a competant driver capable of unleashing the cars potential? Thanks for your time, I appreciate any feedback.
Have fun.
As to planning to break yourself in, you will find that you will not want to part with it ever, unlesss of course, you decide to move on for an Elise or a Boxster-S or upward.
You really don't need to study automobile engineering to realize that this is arguably one of the best cars ever built, after some five hours of seat time ;-)
As to aquainting yourself - Just take your time and stay mature in the process of orienting yourself with the S. It could be a whiner on torque and it will take some work to get it upto highway speeds unless you are VTEC-ing it everytime. You will initially have those kids with souped up civics with BMW grilles beating you up at the stop lights and giving you dumb grins - They all grin because they have won the lottery of their lives and they can't beleive their luck :confuse: ...
Little do they realize that all you have to do is - At the sight of green light, just push it upto 30 MPH on first gear, shift hard and fast into second, VTEC it again and stay there below the redline until you hit 55, shift to 3rd, stay on VTEC and you have them two lights behind with their jaws on their knees. :P It sure feels good but, after a couple of those mistreatments of my baby, I grew tired of it. ( I mean, for who and for what, and most importantly, WITH what???)
When you are at the point where you realize that each drive is an experience like no other - Consider yourself fully aquainted with the S. If you are not already comfortable doing your heel-toe downshifts, practice them now as this car is best enjoyed in the twisties where you find yourself wanting to dive faster AND faster into and out of curves and that the car dares you to go even faster!!
One last thing: Final words from that uncle character to SpiderMan- II always go thru' my mind when I really start to enjoy my ride on open highways , buzzing past the rest of the traffic at 98 MPH with the wind howling like banshees havin' a banquet: "With great power, comes even greater responsibility."
It is so easy to forget how powerful you are with this car so, If I were you, I would always remember that.
Welcome to S2K nation!!!
Cheers!!
--njexpress.
Of course, the lack of cargo space could be a problem if you regularly need to haul large packages, but the trunk certainly will hold a full supply of groceries, a weekend suitcase, or two or three small-medium sized boxes. There's room for you and one passenger, of course, so you should also think about that.
The ride quality is really comfortable considering it's a sports car. It never crashes over bumps or bottoms out, so in terms of ride, it makes for a fine commuter car. The car is noisy, so long drives (more than 3 hours) could be uncomfortable. In most circumstances, however, it is no problem. I actually like the noise. It maintains the "raw" feel that I like.
If you're concerned about affordability, I'd go for the 2006. From what I understand, there are no significant upgrades from 06 to 07. As far as lease options, I really don't know much about that. I prefer traditional financing. That way, I can drive as much as I want without worrying about mileage charges.
One additional thing to think about is operating costs. It has good fuel economy (23-26 mpg), but it uses premium gas. The car also eats tires much more rapidly than the typical car. Expect to have to change at least your rears every 10-15K miles. Your insurance costs will also go up since it is a sports car.
Overall, it is a fantastic car, and I love it. Puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. It's a purchase you definitely will not regret. Just be sure you go into it aware of the limitations and ready to make the necessary compromises.
I get a lot worse gas milage (around 20 , best tank 21, some highway and some city and lots of VTEC) and mybe it is becuase I put on Indvidia exhaust which is much louder than stock. Also good investment Rick's Voodoo shift knob $35 screws down lower by 1/2 inch than stock. worst accesory is cargo net; absolutley worthless. drink cup holder is pretty bad too but hey who needs to drink and drive a sports car. My insurance cost went up bu not bad lessthan $1000 a year for very high level of coverage; but I am old and have other cars.
Excellent car!
MidCow
That said, you'll love taking the S2000 up through the twisties on your way up to Sedona (but pack light).
My decision to buy this car hinges primarily on the affordability question. Maintenance costs, such as tire wear mentioned previously, and gas costs, as well as the initial cost of the car are factors going into my decision. By the way, I can't understand why tires should wear faster than any other car, as long as you aren't "burning rubber" every time the light turns green.
Perhaps when considering purchase of this type of car the old adage applies "If you have to ask, you can't afford it."
It seems that maintenance costs are a significant factor for you... I think if the majority of your driving is going to be freeway commuting, and cost is a concern... then the S2000 is probably not the right car for you.. no matter how great it actually might be.
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" It has the power to easily break the rear end loose in a curve and you can switch ends in a hurry if you get on the gas too much. "
Actually with VSA , 2006 and newer this is mno longer true.