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2009 Acura TSX
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Much higher mpg, and low-end torque.
The diesel fuel premium is around 10-15% (and should come down) while the mileage gains are around 20%.
Do the math - on overall cost, a diesel almost always wins out while the same can't be said for hybrids.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/motoring/2004433293_dieselhonda23.html?syn- -
In the last year, gas prices are up 38% while diesel prices are up 65%. In the wake of those huge increases, gas use is DOWN at unprecedented rates of decline, and diesel use is...........STILL UP. Freight uses a lot of the stuff.
Diesel prices are just going to keep going up, but they will fluctuate more than gas most likely.
As such the Jetta TDI doesn't really pay off vs a Corolla or a Civic, but it does still pay off quite handsomely vs the underwhelming fuel economy of the gas Jetta 2.5.
A diesel TSX would have no entry-lux competition - all the other models in its price range are non-hybrid, non-diesel. As such, I bet it will do quite well. Until someone wises up and offers a hybrid Lexus or Infiniti, and Mercedes offers a diesel C300. BMW has already announced the impending arrival of the diesel 3-series, which would admittedly be a lot more expensive than the TSX.
But Volvo? Saab? Cadillac? Nothing. I assume there will be a Passat TDI not far behind the Jetta TDI, and that might provide the best competition of all for the TSX diesel.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
It seems you've changed your mind regarding the sales prospects for the new generation TSX. Unless I'm missing something, you've come around to pretty much agreeing about what I said several weeks ago. If course, fuel prices have risen considerably since you and I disagreed, so your current position better reflects the new economic realities.
Yes, the comparison is only meaningful against the similar gas model - the same as you can't compare an E320CDI against an Accord.
Demand for diesel will keep going up but I think there is some max markup that the refiners can get away with. The lack or refining capacity (especially for diesel) doesn't make the news as much as the lack of crude supply.
Yes, the comparison is only meaningful against the similar gas model - the same as you can't compare an E320CDI against an Accord.
Well there are many, including me, that would not agree that a Jetta/Civic comparison is the same as a E320/Accord comparison. But YMMV. ;-)
Forgot about the Maxima - yup diesel version coming for CY 2009, will be more powerful than the one proposed for the TSX, IIRC. I do wonder if it won't actually be priced HIGHER than the TSX, and I doubt it will handle much better than a large luxo-barge either.
hpmctorque: I forget if we were talking about sales prospects for ALL TSXs or just the diesels. I think the diesel will be almost in a class of one for a little while, while the gas models are overpriced or underdelivering, you pick.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I know that's a confusing question, but I guess what I'm trying to ask is if the S mode is like BMW's steptronic, in which you can put it into sport mode, and if you don't shift manually, then it would still behave like a regular automatic, only with a more aggressive shift profile.
We were talking about all TSXs. My recollection of the context of our difference regarding sales of the new generation TSX was the following: We were both disappointed that size and weight increased, but we differed on sales projections.
I believe you took the position that sales would be disappointing, while I argued that, despite the rather poor reviews, I thought that sales would be respectable.
My reasons were that first year sales would be okay because its a new generation. Second year sales would get a boost from the diesel. Third year sales would probably be supported by a freshening and/or the addition of a turbo "S" choice. Finally, although fourth year (2012) sales would probably decline, Acura could introduce an attractive lease deal, or some other marketing ploy, to help sales.
Time will tell how things turn out.
The '09 TSX is wider than the previous generation, but the back seet leg and foot room is virtually unchanged.
I don't understand what the designers were thinking, since the TSX is a mid-size car from a length, width, and height standpoint.
Let me know
go to the Lease forums for more leasing information on what people are paying now, if you use the above technics, than your bound to atleast get a decent deal now, but its still a brand new model.
Taking your time, and not rushing, will be the better way to get a deal your happy with.
This leaves us to the only other choice, which is the 2009 Acura TSX. TSX is basically a European Honda Accord built in Japan. Europe Accord has to be made smaller than American Accord because of the tight roads. The 2009 Acura TSX is the second generation just arrived to the dealership floor 2 months ago.
The TSX offers the best value in entry level luxury sedan segment. It cost the least, offers largest interior, and offers the best fuel economy. In order to achieve this, Acura chooses a 4-cylinder 2.4-liter gasoline engine that outputs 201 horsepower and 170 lbs-ft of torque. The engine output cannot match the power on the Lexus IS 250, BMW 328i, or Mercedes C-series sedans. A lot of people think the power train is the weakest point of the TSX, but 200 horse power is good enough for us. More horses just means more cost. Who really uses that much power on day-to-day driving anyway, not to mention aggressive driving brings more wear and tear. The transmission is a 5-speed automatic transmission, which is probably the weakest point of the car, while other Luxury sedans all have 6-speed automatic transmissions. The power train is the reason why TSX costs less than its competitors.
I have seen a lot of bad reviews on the 2009 TSX, that is because whoever writes reviews are "car enthusiasts", and they do not have to pay for the car, gas, or maintenance cost from their pockets. They are suckers to BMW and pony cars.
Acura uses EPS (Electric Power Steering) on the TSX. It replaces the traditional hydraulic power steering. The steering wheel is no linked to a complex hydraulic system. The advantage is the simplicity, reduce weight, and improves fuel economy. The disadvantage is that it provides less steering wheel feeling to the driver. My wife cannot tell the difference, but I can tell. After driving it for a while, I get used to it.
The gas throttle is also electric instead of the mechanical system, aka drive by wire. It also feels strange at first, but I got used to it after a couple days.
The overall drive and ride quality is good. The ride is quiet yet I feel connected to the road. Even though the car is quite large, the suspension is comfortable but does not give me the floating ship feeling of a Toyota Camry. Acura puts in a lot of improvement on insulation and aerodynamic to reduce the noise in the cabin. The Michelin tires sticks to the road well, and there is only little body roll on quick cornering. The braking is good for me, but I heard it is not as good as its competitors.
The 2009 TSX is bigger than the previous generation in every dimension. It offers a lot of room and comfort inside, but it also drives like a big car. This means when maneuvering in tight space, I have to be careful to make sure I have enough room for the car. I am used to the high driving position of my Honda CR-V. In this car, I feel like I do not have enough visibility to see every corner of the car.
The TSX has a long list of standard safety features. It has Advanced Compatibility Engineering (ACE) body structure, together with the 6 air bags/curtains it earns 5-star ratings for each of the NHTSA's front and side impact testing. We know we buy one of the safest cars in the market.
There are also a lot of people who hates the look of the car. I have to say the exterior style is quite polarizing. I am a guy who like flashes and bling bling on cars, so I like the style a lot. I think it looks sharp, aggressive, and energetic from most angles. It looks sporty, and it definitely has a funky European look. I do not like the Toyota-Lexus styling, it is just boring and their cars just blend in so well with most of other cars on the road. My wife, however, prefers the subtle and anonymous styling of Lexus. She thinks the car looks like a "devil". Regardless you like the style or not, one thing is for sure. You cannot ignore this car on the road, because it just looks so different. Most people do not like the style because of the new "Power Platinum" grille. It looks like a shield or some people say it looks like a bird's beak. This is the new look of the Acura family of sedans. All other Acura sedans will share the same look in the 2009 model lineup.
The interior of the car is the highlight of the car. Even in the base model, it has perforated leather seat, heated seat, 2 memory seat positions, auto dim rear view mirror, sun roof, Bluetooth, home link garage door opener, XM Satellite radio, MP3/WAM USB port, trip computer, and many other features. Other manufacturers will nickel and dime you for these features, but they are all included in an Acura. The seat is wrapped with soft leather, and it is supportive. I prefer the seat can be less firm, but I am now used to it. The interior material is soft and high quality. The driver and passengers can feel pampered inside the cabin. The steering wheel, gear shifter, and arm rests are also wrapped in leather. There is a lot of room inside for my arms and legs. I actually feel it got too much shoulder room, because I am having hard time resting my elbow on both left and right armrest. It is probably better fit for a larger person.
I find the rear passenger leg room can be tight if I push the front seat back. However, it still offers more room and comfort for the rear passengers than Lexus IS 250. The backseat can only have 2 comfortable passengers. A third passenger at the back will feel the sitting position very awkward. This is because the shape of the back seats is like a bucket to make sure 2 passengers feel supportive.
The center storage lid has an auxiliary port for MP3 players, and it also has a USB port for any USB storage device and iPod. I connect a 4GB USB thumb drive to the car, and the audio system is able to read all the files on it. Many other luxury sedans has built-in hard drive for storing music. For the TSX, I can just plug in my own hard drive. The audio system has fully-integrated iPod interface if you plug an iPod. I found this system does not work with Zune.
(to be continued)
After owning the car for 3 weeks, I like the TSX more and more. In some other Edmunds member's words, this car is growing on me.
In order to find out how the 2009 TSX compares to a BMW 328i, I went to a BMW dealership to test drive it. BMW 3-series is the car all magazines saying it defines the entry-level sports car category. So I want to find out what if I get a barebone basic BMW 3 no-thrills instead of an Acura.
There is no comparison. This is my first time driving a German car, and it is sooooooo bad :confuse: . The interior design of BMW is so outdated, looks like an aged VW car. The leather feels so cheap (hard and rough), I feel like being in a low cost car. I cannot tell the car accelerates faster or handles better than the TSX, maybe only testing device can tell. I feel like I don't know how to drive a German car after driving Japanese cars for 10 years (and some American rental cars). And the sticker price is $39,000 with same equipment and feature of a basic TSX without navigation. I never know you have to pay $800 for a silver paint on a BMW, or you have to pay a $3000+ premium package just for leather seats and other things that are standard in an Acura. Even the iPod adaptor cost $400, a lot more than the iPod itself. I finally know what nickel and dime means . After some negotiation it is probably still $10k more than what I pay for the TSX. Yes, BMW gives you 4 years of free maintenance, the exterior style is cool, and it is a smaller and more nimble car, and people will fantasize a BMW owner, but give me a break for paying 10k more for a car I don't like.
BMW lovers, I am prepared for your hatred comments to my post. You guys just have too much money to spend.
I wish my TSX can have the benefit of roominess and comfort of a mid-size car and still have a small car exterior package, but I cannot be too greedy.
After test driving a BMW 328i, I go back to the TSX :shades: cuddle in the comfortable leather. The TSX never feels so comfortable and smooth.
BMW simply cannot beat the value TSX offers, when compared to price.
One thing I really dislike about the BMW are the run-flat tires. I wish regular tires and a mini spare were standard, with run-flats optional for those who prefer them.
It'll be an interesting comparison when both cars offer diesels, in the near future.
We drive our cars a lot for commute to work, and cost of owner is a major consideration for us. Value seekers should not go wrong with a TSX, but the TSX may not offer much excitement for thrill seekers.
There is an Edmund article on the fuel efficiency trend the auto industry is taking Trade-Offs Along the Path to Better Fuel Economy
Almost bought a IS250 but to get all the features the TSX has would have cost 7,000 more. HID lights, bluetooth, heated memory seats and few other things are standard on all TSXs and optional on the IS250. And for the base price of a IS250 I got a TSX with Navi, no one comes close on value.
Has anyone else noticed this? Is this normal?
I thought I read something in the owners manual last week that said there was something that causes the engine to be a bit louder when first started - but I can't find it now.
Any feedback would be appreciated. (My next step will be to contact the dealer service department, but I thought I'd try to see if anyone else experienced the same issue first.)
Thanks.