Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

henryn · January 2016

I subscribe to the Galves news list (the news list is free, the pricing guide of course isn’t).

This just in this morning:

One thing that was common pretty much among all vehicle segments was that the value of diesel & gasoline versions of the same vehicle merged significantly during the year. How much of that can be attributed to low fuel prices and how much to spillover from the VW/Audi diesel situation is questionable, but the fact that their values have merged is not. A Mercedes ML 350 gas and diesel that began the year with about a $2500 premium for the diesel ended the year with only about a $500 difference. A similar situation applies to most gas & diesel versions of the same vehicle regardless of segment.

Most heavily influenced by the low cost of fuel were, as to be expected, the fuel sippers: electric vehicles, compacts, and sub-compacts. Though compacts and sub-compacts were impacted a bit more than usual, it was the very small largely electric (plug-in) segment that really suffered. Vehicles like the Toyota Prius experienced around 20% depreciation during the year. Cars like the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Volt endured more like 30%-40% depreciation in 2015. A Leaf that entered the year with a trade-in value of $10,100 exited it with a value of $6300. That's a huge hit. The Volt lost about 30% of its value: $14,900 vs. $10,500.

[Deleted User] · January 2016

Interesting quote, henryn, and reflects what I've been seeing. If you wanted a Gen 1 Volt, now's a great time to buy one on the cheap. It's tempting, but if I went electric, I'd really want the Gen 2. I find myself stuck between wanting to go back to a manual transmission car and wanting to go electric. Trips to Europe remind me how much I miss the driving involvement a good manual can provide. Prior to my knee surgery we were thinking of purchasing a manual VW GTI post-surgery, but with the VW mess and my loss in trust of the company culture, we scratched the company from our shopping list. Now I'm stuck. There really is no GTI equivalent out there.

stever · January 2016

A lot of the EV value hit is because the tax credits make it enticing to buy one, but the used buyer doesn't get to take advantage of those. Thanks for the blurb, @henryn.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2016

Galves wouldn't be the first to go on record as predicting dire consequences for diesel cars in America due to the VW scandal. I could see the entire market drying up.

driver100 · January 2016

henryn said:
I subscribe to the Galves news list (the news list is free, the pricing guide of course isn’t).

This just in this morning:

One thing that was common pretty much among all vehicle segments was that the value of diesel & gasoline versions of the same vehicle merged significantly during the year. How much of that can be attributed to low fuel prices and how much to spillover from the VW/Audi diesel situation is questionable, but the fact that their values have merged is not. A Mercedes ML 350 gas and diesel that began the year with about a $2500 premium for the diesel ended the year with only about a $500 difference. A similar situation applies to most gas & diesel versions of the same vehicle regardless of segment.

Cars like the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Volt endured more like 30%-40% depreciation in 2015. A Leaf that entered the year with a trade-in value of $10,100 exited it with a value of $6300. That's a huge hit. The Volt lost about 30% of its value: $14,900 vs. $10,500.

Very interesting.....and one reason I like to steer clear of the latest "scare of the week". Slow and steady wins the race, and that is why I would rather stick with the tried and true until there is a track record. My neighbors got a bmw i3 and they love it..............but 80 miles on a charge........I'll wait until they get the technology perfected.

abacomike · January 2016

I have a tough decision as to what I will watch on TV this evening:

"Body Bizarre" about a 16" man who wants to be recognized as the smallest person in the world.

OR

"My Baby's Got An Extra Head" about a baby born with an unusual tumor.

Decisions, Descisions, Decisions,

If you have any preferences, please let me know.

stickguy · January 2016

HGTV.

stever · January 2016

Made the mistake of going to Wally World with my wife this afternoon to get some rice milk and a few odds and ends. When I saw the parking lot, it occurred to me that it was the first of the month so the social security checks must have hit people's bank accounts.

Lots of older geezers meandering around the store clogging up the aisles....hm, that was me. Never mind.

It wasn't a complete loss since I got treated to sushi for lunch (no, not at Wally's). Saw an able-bodied looking thirtysomething in a GTI pull into a handicapped space and head to a store. (Insert usual VW joke here).

Skip the TV Mike and go straight to youtube. Cat videos would be better than bizarre bodies....

abacomike · January 2016

stickguy said:

HGTV.

"Love It Or List It" or "Love It Or List It, Too"? Again, decisions, decisions, decisions!

Michaell · January 2016

abacomike said:

stickguy said:

HGTV.

"Love It Or List It" or "Love It Or List It, Too"? Again, decisions, decisions, decisions!

I like the original better, myself.

ab348 · January 2016

I'm finishing off season 7 of Chasing Classic Cars tonight.

abacomike · January 2016

ab348 said:
I'm finishing off season 7 of Chasing Classic Cars tonight.

Good show. I've seen them all and I do look forward to Tuesday evenings at 10:00 PM on the Velocity Channel to find out what Wayne is up to.

I get a kick out of his old mechanic - I forget his name - but he is a very funny guy. He must be well into his 70's, but from watching the show all these years, Wayne thinks he is the best mechanic he has and the "go to" guy for the classic old cars like Packard, Studebaker, Stutz, LaSalle, Reo, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Bugati, etc., cars from the 20's through the 40's.

I can't wait until "Wheeler Dealers" starts their new season. I really enjoy that show. From what I understand, there is an American Wheeler Dealers spin-off in the works - anyone know anything about it?

oldfarmer50 · January 2016

Daydreaming again.

Wondering how this could be modified to be a cool car or just a nice daily driver.

Who am I kidding it's cheap and low miles. What more do I need?

tjc78 · January 2016

Well it's already the V8 which moves along nicely. They are actually nice comfortable cars. My Mom had a 96 Tbird. If it was the V8 instead of the awful 3.8 I would have bought it and still be kicking it around.

tjc78 · January 2016

Heck Propert Bros or Flip or Flop could be on too. My wife says I watch ForF for only one reason.

I like all the Velocity shows too, just can't keep up on them all.

nyccarguy · January 2016

oldfarmer50 said:

Daydreaming again. Wondering how this could be modified to be a cool car or just a nice daily driver. Who am I kidding it's cheap and low miles. What more do I need?

When I first got my license & couldn't have a 1992 Mustang GT (or LX 5.0) that I lusted after (lousy insurance companies), the next cars in the Ford Family that I loved were the Thunderbird SC & Mercury Cougar XR7. I think those were too pricey, then I drove a 1993 Ford Probe GT (Mazda MX6 underpinnings, Ford Body). The GT was still too pricey & the base model had these horrible looking wheels & wheezy 4cyl engine.

I ended up with a 1992 Chevrolet Beretta GT

stickguy · January 2016

Roger Barr. I love him. Quite the hoot. Perfect old codger. And back in the day, quite the formula car driver.

The last season of Wheeler Dealers did move to the US. Still Edd and Mike, but they had a shop in Venice Beach to be closer to where they seemed to be getting most of the cars from, and the local craftsman scene.

abacomike · January 2016

stickguy said:

Roger Barr. I love him. Quite the hoot. Perfect old codger. And back in the day, quite the formula car driver. The last season of Wheeler Dealers did move to the US. Still Edd and Mike, but they had a shop in Venice Beach to be closer to where they seemed to be getting most of the cars from, and the local craftsman scene.

Yes, last season they set up shop in LA. I don't know if they are going back to Brittain or if they are staying in the US.

I know Top Gear has a North American Top Gear division - I don't know if that's just for production purposes for BBC America or if they are thinking of an American spin off. Too bad the BBC stopped production because of Jeremy and his temper. I think he had a love of the "spirits" if you know what I mean.

cdnpinhead · January 2016

Michaell said:
I like the original better, myself.

For what it's worth, the "original" is in the Toronto area and "too" is in the Vancouver (BC) metro area. I enjoy the Vancouver episodes since I lived there a number of years. The prices are amazing -- much lower before the Hong Kong Chinese descended on the lower mainland.

stickguy · January 2016

Actually, the current season of Love it or List it is being filmed in the US now (around Raleigh). They were getting kind of stale doing the same type of expensive skinny row house in Toronto.

abacomike · January 2016

We finally cooled off down here. I was able to turn off the AC. Tonight, lows on the 50's - nice change. Then, rain and wind for 2 days, but back into the upper 70's by Thursday and low 80's by the weekend.

I I wore a sweatshirt today and tomorrow I will probably need a jacket in the morning, then a sweater or sweatshirt in the afternoon. Nice change - we sure needed the cooling off.

berri · January 2016

Sweatshirt, jacket; If it goes below 60 in Florida, it's time to get out the parka

nyccarguy · January 2016

Despite me being much younger (I was 22 when I first signed on to edmunds) than many of you, I've always been treated as an equal. I saw a few weeks ago that many of you commented how you would do certain things different if you were younger & knew what you know now. I feel the same way. A few of you mentioned you wish you could go back to being 39.

I'm 39. My 40th birthday is coming up on April 3. Financially if you were me, what would you do?

I'd like to learn more about the stock market. Keeping with the spirit of the board, I'd like to know what you think of the following companies (to a complete novice investor):

Ford Motor Company (F)
Closing price: $14.97
P/E Ratio: 11.69
Market Cap: $55.44 Billion
Yield: 4.26%

Toyota Motor Corporation (TM)
Closing price: $121.46
P/E Ratio: 10.02
Market Cap: $189.1 Billion
Yield: 2.65%

stever · January 2016

I got Ford at $5 back during the GM/Chrysler mess, sold half when it doubled. Maybe I should sell you mine, lol. Today I wouldn't buy either for the long term (but I don't know what I'd buy, maybe VW if I was looking for something to hold a decade....). There's a stock discussion around you could recharge.

stickguy · January 2016

buy low, sell high.

well, that isn't what you asked now, is it?

Stock market is a crap shoot, and more research is better. I do happen to believe that for most small investors, they are better off investing on a regular basic is low cost index funds. But, not to say you can't invest some in carefully selected stocks. Just not if you plan to start trading frequently. And do the stocks with the "spare" money.

one thing I do like to see is the dividend yield. Surprised that Ford is that high. Just have to trust that they will keep paying it! That way you can somewhat ignore the daily ups and downs of the share price (since you are holding LT), and get a much better return than a money market fund returns. GE has always been good for that, even when their share price was down.

also, if you buy to hold, sign up for dividend reinvestment. Excellent way to build up your shares, and take advantage of dollar cost averaging.

"blue chips" kind of fell out of favor during the tech speculation booms. Certainly exciting to buy some stock of a company you don't have any idea what they do and watch it shoot up. Though just as likely it crashed and burned. And rarely if ever paid a dividend.

oldfarmer50 · January 2016

abacomike said:
We finally cooled off down here. I was able to turn off the AC. Tonight, lows on the 50's - nice change. Then, rain and wind for 2 days, but back into the upper 70's by Thursday and low 80's by the weekend.

I I wore a sweatshirt today and tomorrow I will probably need a jacket in the morning, then a sweater or sweatshirt in the afternoon. Nice change - we sure needed the cooling off.

We have a temp of 4 this morning and a wind chill of -12. Save me!

oldfarmer50 · January 2016

nyccarguy said:
Despite me being much younger (I was 22 when I first signed on to edmunds) than many of you, I've always been treated as an equal. I saw a few weeks ago that many of you commented how you would do certain things different if you were younger & knew what you know now. I feel the same way. A few of you mentioned you wish you could go back to being 39.

I'm 39. My 40th birthday is coming up on April 3. Financially if you were me, what would you do?

I'd like to learn more about the stock market. Keeping with the spirit of the board, I'd like to know what you think of the following companies (to a complete novice investor):

Ford Motor Company (F)
Closing price: $14.97
P/E Ratio: 11.69
Market Cap: $55.44 Billion
Yield: 4.26%

Toyota Motor Corporation (TM)
Closing price: $121.46
P/E Ratio: 10.02
Market Cap: $189.1 Billion
Yield: 2.65%

Unless you're willing to spend lots of time managing your portfolio I'd buy an index mutual fund and just dollar cost average. Look into Vanguard or some other low cost fund company.

suydam · January 2016

+1.

graphicguy · January 2016

NYC.....just a word of investment advice.....never take any. And, only invest in companies in industries you know well. That way, you can at least have a basis of which way the wind is blowing in a market you know.

I've concluded no investment adviser, be they a broker, banker or a candle stick maker, knows any more than I do, with information I can find as easily as they can.

I've lost and made a fortune in the stock market, at least on paper (right now, I'm on the plus side of the ledger). I know I've made a fortune for at least one broker with my trades. I've hit some homeruns (still have a nice pile of Apple Stock I bought in 1985). But, I know the tech industry. At the time, Apple wasn't a big risk (even though IBM and PC clones were kicking Apple's behind). I thought I had studied and learned all about the oil industry. Bought a dog I still own (Valero). If I could ever get back to even on it, I'd dump it so fast my etrade account would combust.

Want an iron clad investment vehicle? Real estate. Aside from the blip in '07-'08 (when the entire economy went to hell in a hand basket because of some unscrupulous lenders), real estate will always be worth something. If I thought I was going to live another 50 years, I'd be up in Detroit right now, buying as much real estate as I could find.

dino001 · January 2016

nyccarguy said:
Despite me being much younger (I was 22 when I first signed on to edmunds) than many of you, I've always been treated as an equal. I saw a few weeks ago that many of you commented how you would do certain things different if you were younger & knew what you know now. I feel the same way. A few of you mentioned you wish you could go back to being 39.

I'm 39. My 40th birthday is coming up on April 3. Financially if you were me, what would you do?

I'd like to learn more about the stock market. Keeping with the spirit of the board, I'd like to know what you think of the following companies (to a complete novice investor):

Ford Motor Company (F)
Closing price: $14.97
P/E Ratio: 11.69
Market Cap: $55.44 Billion
Yield: 4.26%

Toyota Motor Corporation (TM)
Closing price: $121.46
P/E Ratio: 10.02
Market Cap: $189.1 Billion
Yield: 2.65%

Automotive companies are not good investments for a novice. Their stocks tend to be volatile, markets often overreact to news, good or bad, especially bad. They are vulnerable to many things not in their control, from economic cycles, to currency, to commodity, to credit cycles (interest rates affect both their capital needs and their customer's ability to purchase), to regulations (emission, safety recalls). It's a tough business overall. You can win a lot or lose a lot and it's hard to predict, where the next skeleton is hidden.

For a novice investor, as a first purchase, I would recommend something less economically sensitive, like consummer staples (PG, JNJ, CL), or perhaps a diversified industrial, especially one supplying aerospace and/or proprietary chemical (HON, UTX, MMM, GE). They are less volatile, especially the former, easier to understand, except perhaps GE. Over time, if you feel more adventurous, next move would be disruptors/secular growth companies, also very volatile, but with much higher reward potential.

dino001 · January 2016

BTW, PE ratio is essentially useless for cyclical companies. As a look back, it shows what happened, so when a cycle turns it will show low value ("cheap") based on earnings that are not going to be repeated (going lower) and will turn very high ("expensive") just when the earnings are about to improve. One could use "forward" PE, but those are also notoriously unreliable for cyclical companies, as analyst are always behind the curve in their estimates. There is also "normalized" PE, based on some averaged cycle value, but good luck with finding that one.

qbrozen · January 2016

I played with a very small amount in an ameritrade account back after the 9/11 market crash. That wasn't the bottom, though, unfortunately for me. I sampled a bunch of things, lost some, won some, and essentially broke even in the end. I bought Shelby when it was first offered and lost on that. Bought @Home when they were down in the penny stock territory because I thought their assets would amount to something. They didn't. I closed the account after maybe a year and took hard copy certificates of GE with me. As someone else said, at least they keep paying dividends. I can't say I understand why their stock never recovered considering, at least when I bought it, the stock value was less than the company would be worth liquidated. Oh well. I'm just not a market person, I suppose.

houdini1 · January 2016

NYC- I like Ford for the long term. Stock price has been fairly stable over last 3 years and divi is good. They are doing some interesting things with Google, etc. I also agree with oldfarmer. Find a nice index fund with Vanguard, invest on a regular basis and just let it all ride for the next 30 years.

Also buy as much house as you can afford. It is something you can enjoy and it will appreciate in value over long term.

As you may have noticed, all of us on this forum have a weakness for cars, but they are a huge drain on your resources over the long term. Figure out a way to save money on cars and put it into your home. Very unpopular advice, but you will thank me in 30 years.

cdnpinhead · January 2016

I've never invested in individual stocks, beyond the fact that my company does the 401K match in stock. If that's the case for you, I'd recommend keeping your company stock at or below 5% of your total portfolio. Enron illustrated what happens if you have it all in company stock and the company goes bust.

I put 110 minus my age in stocks (index funds mostly) and the balance in money markets or bonds -- presently I'm at 43% equities and 57% MM & bonds. The older you get, the less time you've got to make up what could be lost in the market.

I have a mix of funds varying from somewhat volatile (growth, international, health sector) to more conservative (S&P 500). Bond and money market funds are the balance.

Once you decide what percentage you want in each of these areas, rebalance a minimum of once a year -- let the winners pay the losers. This takes discipline, but pays big dividends over the long run. I got through 2001 and 2008 in much better shape than the people who "let it ride." Plus you're not trying to time the market. Through last July, when I last rebalanced, my overall 10-year return was 6.5% and 3-year was 8.8%. Not earth shattering, but comfortably ahead of inflation.

A 401K is an excellent vehicle, especially if you get a company match up to some percentage, but it's also a good idea to have a reasonable amount in Vanguard (lowest fees in the business) funds using money that's already been taxed to cover household breakdowns, new cars and the like.

FWIW.

stickguy · January 2016

Vanguard (my favorite) and other fund managers offer age based funds too. Basically pick a fund that is based on when you expect to retire, and it does the rebalancing for you. Put money in every month, and forget about it.

qbrozen · January 2016

I wound up borrowing half of my 401k to put the down payment on our new home. I know it isn't the best option, but it allowed us to keep both houses, and I figure real estate isn't such a bad place to have my retirement fund tied up.

I'm not sure how my 401k has treated me over the years since I can't seem to see beyond the past 2 years, but I know its never been as bad as most people I talked to, even through the worst market periods. I guess I have it diversified well enough between mid, large, small, and international funds.

dino001 · January 2016

I generally agree, low cost index fund is best way to go for bulk of the funds for a busy professional. My thoughts on the individual stocks is only predicated that one has time and inclination to try individual and is willing to fail for sake of individual education and a long term plan. I dabble in individual stocks and have quite often thoughts of being a world's worst investor.

ab348 · January 2016

Here in Canada, we have Registered Retirement Savings Plans (RRSPs) which I gather are similar to a 401K in the US. Put money in that you can't touch until later in life, get a tax break, etc. I started doing that when I was in my 30s and kept at it until I retired last year. I might still put a little in this year, haven't decided yet. I have a few more years of eligibility.

The thing I have discovered doing that for 25 or 30 years is that the market drives you crazy. It makes no sense. I can't say it is rigged but it certainly is irrational. It goes up and down based on things that have nothing to do with the profitability of your investments. Having something lose $10K over a weekend makes me upset - $10K may not be a lot of money to some but it is to me and the way it bounces around annoys the heck out of me. I will never be rich but I do want to be comfortable. I concluded I could never outsmart the sharpies who play the market for a living. I have a half-dozen funds, most of them index funds, but a couple of mostly equity funds. One of those was weighted heavily to energy stocks and I probably bought it at close to peak so I am now like GG with his Valero stock, just praying that someday it gets back close to level so I can dump it. I often tell myself that at this stage of life if I could find some investment vehicle that paid a steady 5%-7% return without much volatility, I would jump at it. I have not found that yet.

andres3 · January 2016

graphicguy said:

driver100 said:
"
graphicguy"

In short, pretty significant delta between the '14 and '16
GG, good comparison and review. Sounds like the car you expected to buy when you bought originally bought it. Now, what are your plans going forward?

Driver....BWIA....I don't know what I'm going to do. On the one hand, I'm still pretty PO'd about how I was treated by Cadillac. On the other, if I try to trade this CTS, it will certainly cost me money.

I had some time off last week and again this week. Just curious what the '16 CTS would bring on the trade market, so shopped it at the local BMW dealer. Sort of liked an X5, but really don't need an SUV. Tested a 535i, and was generally underwhelmed.

Keep seeing commercials for the Lexus "December to Remember", so probably will take a look at the IS350 F Sport, or even the GS350 F Sport today. I might even head over to the Benz dealer and take another look at the C or E.

Biggest problem I see right now, the '16 CTS is too new, and early in the model year. It's immediately going to raise some suspicions on a used lot. And, with the typical GM discounts, the other dealers don't know how to price it. I could sell it myself, but I'm going to run into the same issue that a dealer might....."why are you selling it so soon"?

Nobody is going to care about the last several months and what Caddy put me through.

Still, this CTS is now into it's 3rd model year, and I still get compliments on it (not that it matters to me).

If I fall in love with something else, and the dealer is at least reasonable, I might pull the trigger. We'll see how motivated they are for an end of year sale.

I suggest drawing a line in the sand, say, 2 warranty issues and that's considered a strike-out. If you never have a warranty issue, then keeping it until the warranty runs out makes sense.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2016

I think it is "rigged" in the sense that the playing field is not equal for all players.

ab348 said:
Here in Canada, we have Registered Retirement Savings Plans (RRSPs) which I gather are similar to a 401K in the US. Put money in that you can't touch until later in life, get a tax break, etc. I started doing that when I was in my 30s and kept at it until I retired last year. I might still put a little in this year, haven't decided yet. I have a few more years of eligibility.

The thing I have discovered doing that for 25 or 30 years is that the market drives you crazy. It makes no sense. I can't say it is rigged but it certainly is irrational. It goes up and down based on things that have nothing to do with the profitability of your investments. Having something lose $10K over a weekend makes me upset - $10K may not be a lot of money to some but it is to me and the way it bounces around annoys the heck out of me. I will never be rich but I do want to be comfortable. I concluded I could never outsmart the sharpies who play the market for a living. I have a half-dozen funds, most of them index funds, but a couple of mostly equity funds. One of those was weighted heavily to energy stocks and I probably bought it at close to peak so I am now like GG with his Valero stock, just praying that someday it gets back close to level so I can dump it. I often tell myself that at this stage of life if I could find some investment vehicle that paid a steady 5%-7% return without much volatility, I would jump at it. I have not found that yet.

[Deleted User] · January 2016

Last week I took a 2016 Mazda6 i Touring with a manual transmission for a test drive. Gorgeous interior that reminds me of premium level design and materials, better than BMW but not quite Audi. Last night I had the internet sales manager, the floor sales manager, and the general manager from the dealership all independently contact me by email and voicemail wanting to close a deal that day. Apparently they had a year-end goal with Mazda to meet and they were still 2 cars short.

Calling them after work, about 7 in the evening, the floor sales manager answered and was ready to work a deal right then and there. He immediately discounted the one manual transmission Mazda6 they had in stock $2,000 below invoice and then researched NADA trade-in on my Impreza.

One challenge with a purchase is that I had not intended to buy brand new, which I explained during the test drive last week. Almost no one wants a manual transmission in the USA when not paired to a sports car. I've noticed that 2016 Mazda6 models with 5,000 miles popping up on the used market, and they move very slowly when equipped with manual transmissions. That leaves me room to negotiate both my trade, a highly desirable model in the Colorado area, for a model that won't move off a dealer's lot.

The other challenge was the new model the dealer had in stock was black paint, which is a non-starter for me. They could try to pull one from another lot, but there was little time to act and they were running into website search problems.

In the end we didn't work a deal and I was okay with that. There's a 5,000-mile used Mazda6 in pearl white paint in Denver at a Subaru dealer, of all places, so I may reach out to them this week. I'm in no hurry. The longer I wait the more 2016s will hit the dealer lots, and they'll depreciate faster than than the Impreza being newer.

nyccarguy · January 2016

@tyguy - let us know what happens! Good luck with your pursuit.

imidazol97 · January 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:
I think it is "rigged" in the sense that the playing field is not equal for all players.

ab348 said:
I can't say it is rigged but it certainly is irrational. It goes up and down based on things that have nothing to do with the profitability of your investments.

When an individual tries to play in the big leagues, they are playing against the day traders and instant traders who have quicker access to split second trades in and out. The individual is playing against folks who have all kinds of inside information about the various companies. Relying on Fortune magazine to mention that a certain area of investment is a good idea usually means the big guys are getting out while the popular market buyers are buying in late.

It's like the college sophomore on a football team declaring for the NFL and thinking they're guaranteed a prominent position for years and years (think OSU). Likely to happen? Naaah.

I have investments in various types of mutual funds in my taxable accounts and let the pros there decide when to buy and sell Apple, usw. ETFs may be the way to go there even if one can avoid the popular media (CNBC, Fox Business, and so on) telling when to get out and in. When the media likes the market, get out. When it's the worse thing ever like in 2009 and was only going to be grim forever with no hope, time to buy in. When CBS, NBC, ABC, and the NYTimes are telling you the economy is steady or improving, sell. Judge by your own seat of the pants as to how it's doing.

stever · January 2016

I like ETFs with the (usually) cheaper fees. Been happy with some of Schwab's low or zero fee in-house offerings too.

There's something fun about buying a company you know and watching it over the years though. We did that with Hershey in the 90s; buy and sell some of it occasionally but mostly sit on it. It's mostly play money, always throws off a dividend and you can justify eating candy since it helps your portfolio.

My sister is wrapping up a purchase of a demo '15 Crosstrek. Got a so-so deal but she seems happy. There's a few more details over in CCBA.

ab348 · January 2016

stickguy said:
Roger Barr. I love him. Quite the hoot. Perfect old codger. And back in the day, quite the formula car driver.

Roger is great. Seems to really know his stuff around the classics. Born in the late 1930s from what I can gather.

One of the eps I watched last night had him walking into the shop and seeing a 1920s Rolls. "'ello, guv'nor" he says. Wayne replies, "That's a Springfield Rolls, so you need your Yankee accent". Roger instantly replies "Ay-yuh!".

abacomike · January 2016

Interesting exchange I witnessed between a new car buyer and the used car manager at my dealership this morning.

I had to drop off some papers at my dealer this morning - while I was waiting to get into the office, I was sitting in the guest lounge and heard an argument between a customer and the used car manager about the value of a 2011 Lexus ES350 trade vehicle. The customer contended that he paid $2000 to have his custom vinyl roof installed when he bought his car and was insistent that his car was worth at least $1500 more because of his investment in the vinyl roof. The used car manager told the customer that he had to deduct $1500 from the value of his trade because his vinyl roof negatively affected the resale vale of his ES350. The manager said, "...I can't sell a car with a vinyl roof - no one wants to buy a car with a custom coach roof - I will have to wholesale the car!"

The customer, in his gruff European accent, said that all his friends and neighbor's have cars with vinyl roofs. The manager responded that he should try selling his car to one of his vinyl roof loving friends or neighbor's? The customer said he tried but no one wanted to pay him what he wanted for his car.

The arguing went on for some time until I had to leave.

BTW, I agreed 100% with the used car manager. He will have to wholesale that car - no one over in that area is going to buy a late model used car with a vinyl "hat"!

nyccarguy · January 2016

Thank-you everyone for your honesty and candor. I asked you all because I have a tremendous amount of respect for all of you. I've got a ROTH IRA that I plan on making contributions to for 2015, 2016, & beyond. My wife has a traditional IRA (from an old job) as well as a 403b (she works at a hospital) which she contributes to. I really like a few of the ideas that have to do with balancing & rebalancing every year. I've got a nice chunk of change coming "off the books" in May when we are finished paying off the Pilot (I'll call it $700 per month), plus the $200 per month I've been saving with my Subaru (vs. from the 328xi), & the $827 per month I'm saving from refinancing our house back in March. I don't want to even try to "time the market" as @cdnpinhead said. I don't have a 401K from my job.

@houdini - I've got a weakness for cars too. I'm trying to "kick the habit." It is easy for now since there is nothing out there that I am absolutely going gaga for . I know cars are not cheap. That's part of the big reason I picked the Legacy. It has everything I need (AWD, Automatic, Heated Seats) & nothing I don't (no sunroof, no leather). It is affordable and should last me as long as I want it to (my 9 year old commented the other day that he'd like that to be his 1st car).

@graphicguy - I know real estate is "where it's at." Steady appreciation as well as steady income once the property is paid off. I just feel like the price of entry is very high to begin with & I'd have to tie everything extra I have into a rental property. My Grandfather sold buildings back in the '70s & '80s for $1 that are worth MILLIONS today!

andres3 · January 2016

abacomike said:
Interesting exchange I witnessed between a new car buyer and the used car manager at my dealership this morning.

I had to drop off some papers at my dealer this morning - while I was waiting to get into the office, I was sitting in the guest lounge and heard an argument between a customer and the used car manager about the value of a 2011 Lexus ES350 trade vehicle. The customer contended that he paid $2000 to have his custom vinyl roof installed when he bought his car and was insistent that his car was worth at least $1500 more because of his investment in the vinyl roof. The used car manager told the customer that he had to deduct $1500 from the value of his trade because his vinyl roof negatively affected the resale vale of his ES350. The manager said, "...I can't sell a car with a vinyl roof - no one wants to buy a car with a custom coach roof - I will have to wholesale the car!"

The customer, in his gruff European accent, said that all his friends and neighbor's have cars with vinyl roofs. The manager responded that he should try selling his car to one of his vinyl roof loving friends or neighbor's? The customer said he tried but no one wanted to pay him what he wanted for his car.

The arguing went on for some time until I had to leave.

BTW, I agreed 100% with the used car manager. He will have to wholesale that car - no one over in that area is going to buy a late model used car with a vinyl "hat"!

Why is it so hard for people to accept that their property is only worth what the market will pay for it. A lot of banks couldn't grasp this concept either when they were trying to sell foreclosed properties on the free market. I n part, it was this faulty mentality that made the recent economic downfall even worse. It seemed GM had a hard time accepting what their assets were really worth too.

abacomike · January 2016

20-25 years ago, a car without a vinyl roof would be worth less than one with a vinyl roof. It's amazing how trends change over time. In the 60's and 70's, a car with a 6 cylinder engine was worth less than a car with an 8 cylinder engine. Now, inline 6's and V6's have turbos that deliver outstanding torque and horsepower. 4 cylinder engines are now very popular and deliver very competent power.

I was thinking about that guy with the ES350 and the vinyl roof - can you imagine him buying a C or E Class Mercedes with a vinyl roof? Good grief - I shudder at the thought!

berri · January 2016

NY - I think you got a lot of good advice. Don't know where you are at exactly dollar wise, but a S&P 500 fund or ETF is a good place to center it all on. Then as you expand you may want to add some midcap, small and international ones (S&P 500 probably gives you a 20-25% exposure to international because it includes many large US multinational companies, but there are some good foreign companies as well). The Extended market gives you midcap and small, or you can just use a total market index if you don't want more emphasis in a particular area. Long term I've always liked a little more midcap. There is also the question of growth or value funds, but both are covered in a broad index vehicle. You can always supplement index funds or ETF with a focused one if you want. For example, if you like value, Oakmark Select is a decent one among others. T Rowe Price has a good selection of specialized funds like tech or health care, etc. However, these funds tend to swing in value more and can spin off more taxable distributions in a given year unless you are using an IRA type vehicle because of their often more frequent holdings turnover.

As for individual stocks, it takes a fair amount of money to build up a diversified portfolio versus fund/ETF investing, but you do then control it. Ford v. Toyota - auto stocks are cyclical and right now cars seem to be in a peak selling mode.

One last issue - taxes. Outside of retirement funds, funds spin off distributions each year that are taxable. Index funds tend to spin off fewer than managed funds. So you need to consider whether you'd rather take more tax distribution currently, or defer more until you sell the fund. Over a long term, an index fund can build up a large tax liability (unless you don't need the money and it is bequeathed). Of course you can manage some of this by balancing your index funds every so often by selling and investing it in a different index. Retirement can bring another issue; if it's not Roth you pay back the tax deferral two ways. First minimum mandatory distributions after 70 and second all capital gains in the account are taxed at ordinary income rates. Also, those distributions after you are Medicare eligible can jack up your monthly Medicare premiums in retirement, as well as lead to a higher tax bracket.

Your write-up sounds like you are into rental income. This may reduce your need for fixed income funds (bonds, REIT's, etc.) in your portfolio mix, but you may still want some for investment balance.

Good luck!

Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles