What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

slorenzen · June 2016

"I’d seen some photos before I left for Inner Mongolia, but nothing prepared me for the sight"

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150402-the-worst-place-on-earth

ruking1 · June 2016

The " green" environmental degradation is & will remain FAR worse than what oils' has EVER been @ the similar stages & %'s ! Remember also, that Afghanistan was conquered & targeted for roughly $10 trillion of rare earth metals (CIA figures) waiting for harvesting! I'm guessing that the opium farming will continue far into the future also!?

The TMI news about the war in Afghanistan is it shows that relatively small # of cadres of (correct) American forces, again ( led by an even smaller # of CIA officers, who were given the green light to actually win) can defeat the enemy with far superior #'s, in an historically UN winnable place !

fintail · June 2016

I think the new one has a normal window, but the base is very high - hope it has good cameras.

stever said:
The original I saw yesterday had the split rear window, just like the Prius. Don't know about the new ones, but I don't much care for that setup.

fintail · June 2016

Depressing. Should be mandatory reading for any hybrid devotee. I think the Tesla actually doesn't use rare earths directly, but it's far from the zero pollution miracle the cult would have you believe:

http://www.wired.com/2016/03/teslas-electric-cars-might-not-green-think/

And the ecodopes still whine about tenuous claims of diesels running rich at a certain temperature (while ignoring commercial vehicles, shipping, and landscaping pollution. Low hanging fruit, I guess).

gagrice said:

Precisely the argument I am having with Rocky on FB. He is completely uncaring about pollution when it comes to building Teslas. As long as it is kept out of Michigan. REE mining and processing is some of the dirtiest processes in the World.

I’d seen some photos before I left for Inner Mongolia, but nothing prepared me for the sight

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150402-the-worst-place-on-earth

andres3 · June 2016

I used my $500 VW card towards the purchase of the '16 TTS gasser. It was about enough to pay for the taxes on just the options the dealerships load these up with.

ruking1 · June 2016

How is this gasser working out for you?

Go Warriors!

andres3 · June 2016

ruking1 said:
How is this gasser working out for you?

Go Warriors!

Improved my gas mileage about 10-15% over the '14 S4 Gasser that has 2 extra cylinders and 700 pounds of added weight. I'll take that as due to the weight savings alone, since the 2 extra cylinders cancels out the advantage of the 7th gear in the S4 (TTS caps out at 6).

But fuel economy is low on the list of priorities for a car like this.

stever · June 2016

"Volkswagen, which owns Audi and Porsche, had advertised its diesel vehicles as an environmentally friendly product. The scandal alienated customers and left a stigma on diesel vehicles in general. Will the shift toward electric vehicles help repair the public’s trust? "

After emissions cheating scandal, Volkswagen steers toward electric vehicles (LA Times)

fintail · June 2016

Definitely seems reactionary, but VW had been working on EVs for some time, just not so publicly.

I've noticed some cheap E250 Bluetecs on the market, I suspect dieselgate hurt all diesel car resale values. If this keeps up, I might end up with one at the end of this lease.

ruking1 · June 2016

Without question, this scenario presents a lot of good opportunities (sedan) ! MB GLK 250 BT's of any model year are in very short supply, as is tha MB GLC (CUV) !

However, I still really like the 2009 VW TDI, 2012 VW Touareg TDI, 2014 MB 250 BT.

ruking1 · June 2016

http://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/volkswagen-touareg-review.html/

VW Touareg (gas)

gagrice · June 2016

Will the Chevy Cruze Diesel be a victim of Diesel gate?? Has Chevy discontinued them? Only a handful of new 2015s for sale across the USA, none in CA. I told Rocky he better think about buying his when the lease is up. I am thinking they are not going to continue selling them here.

Also wonder when the Mercedes GLC300d will hit our dealers? Though I could be persuaded to get the GLE 300d if we get shot down on our Touareg TDIs. One person posting mileage on the new GLE 300 d. Nothing wrong with a tankful going 854 miles. I like that a lot.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/mercedes-benz/gle300d/2016/boats/406273

stever · June 2016

Forgot about those and yeah, I only see two 2015s for sale near DC.

gagrice · June 2016

stever said:
Forgot about those and yeah, I only see two 2015s for sale near DC.

There are about 15 of the 300d models within 150 miles of me. I am in a waiting pattern to see what VW does with the Touareg TDI. I currently have about $14,000 equity in mine. So a trade for the Mercedes GLE 300d is not out of the question. I still have a little over a year and 15k miles on my BtoB extended warranty.

ruking1 · June 2016

I really can't say enough about the 2.1 L BT engine after 30,000 miles! It seems to not only perform well across the platforms MB puts it in, but it usually performs better than the V-6 gas models.

ruking1 · June 2016

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-plastic-into-fuel-20160617-snap-story.html

From landfill plastics to diesel feel ?

http://247wallst.com/autos/2016/06/18/volkswagen-recovering-nicely-as-memory-of-dieselgate-fades/?yptr=yahoo

You heard this here first on this topic approximately September 2015!

fintail · June 2016

I wonder how what the price will be on a high/full option 2014-15 E250 in about 6 months.

The W221 S350 Bluetec still attracts me as well, as it is quite rare, but it will require more maintenance.

ruking1 · June 2016

It seems like the E250 is the most plentiful of the MB BT's, on the used market.

stever · June 2016

$10 billion dollar deal and no fix.

No fix.

Just amazing to me. No fix.

"Volkswagen AG will submit its $10 billion plan this month to fix a half-million emissions-cheating cars or get them off U.S. roads even though it’s awaiting regulators’ sign-off on how to retrofit the vehicles, a person familiar with the matter said.

The settlement will include options for car owners to sell their vehicles back to Volkswagen or to terminate their leases early.

Under the proposed deal, vehicle owners can register to have their car repaired but will be told that it may never actually happen, the person said."

VW Said Ready With $10 Billion Diesel Plan, to Devise Fix Later (Bloomberg)

fintail · June 2016

Hasn't it always really been about the money anyway?

MB dealer today told me he is very willing to deal on 2016 Bluetecs, and that Dieselgate has hurt his diesel sales.

gagrice · June 2016

stever said:
$10 billion dollar deal and no fix.

No fix.

Just amazing to me. No fix.

"Volkswagen AG will submit its $10 billion plan this month to fix a half-million emissions-cheating cars or get them off U.S. roads even though it’s awaiting regulators’ sign-off on how to retrofit the vehicles, a person familiar with the matter said.

The settlement will include options for car owners to sell their vehicles back to Volkswagen or to terminate their leases early.

Under the proposed deal, vehicle owners can register to have their car repaired but will be told that it may never actually happen, the person said."

VW Said Ready With $10 Billion Diesel Plan, to Devise Fix Later (Bloomberg)

What do you mean no fix? I am more than happy to take my $13,000 share of $6.5 billion and never let out a peep. The owners get hush money, the government gets hush money. It don't get no better than that. The diesel haters can sell their car back to VW. Everyone is Happy, Happy, Happy.....

stever · June 2016

So you're fine with stinking the rest of the law abiding citizenry's air up eh?

Time for a reminder link from @fintail's favorite newspaper.

Diesel cars emit up to four times more toxic pollution than a bus, data reveals

fintail · June 2016

Ah my beloved alarmist branch of the British press. The only thing worse than reactionaries on the continent is easily offended reactionary SJWs in Blighty. I have to wonder sometimes, is this all really about the latent guilt that EV and hybrid lovers have about the damage caused by rare earths etc extraction?

Aren't emissions already known to be higher in cold conditions? This isn't a secret, the cars are designed this way. Sounds like yet another crisis being manufactured over testing vs real world results, which were never a secret to begin with.

I don't see any mention in the article or source data regarding which exact vehicle is the accused polluter, nor which vehicles are being compared, not to mention real details about the testing routine. And irrelevant to the US, as no diesel superminis are sold here, never have been, never will be. I believe these specific cars have far less emissions controls than any US market vehicles.

Maybe if our beloved traffic engineers could implement effective controls to alleviate congestion, there would be less urban pollution too. Cars sitting at lights with no cross traffic can't help.

One line from the Norwegian source data:

"The results from the few tests we have done and presented is not enough to draw solid conclusions about Euro 6/VI-technology and about future exhaust emissions" - funny how that was left out of the alarmist article.

ruking1 · June 2016

What's not to like ? Every option is a win-win! The "fix option " just got extended 2 years without knowing what it will be. So because I have a biannual smog good for 2 years, this appears to now be renewalable to @ least 2020.

stever · June 2016

Sounds to me like there is no fix.

Although the fix is in.

gagrice · June 2016

I have a hard time believing any of the BS in the UK article. Sounds like they took diesel cars with no emissions against trucks and buses equipped with Euro 6 urea emission systems. How many lorries, buses and Semis in the EU are NOT equipped with Urea injection. Test them against old diesel cars and I bet the results are not what they want to see.

Right now in the US our diesel trucks are allowed 125 times as much Nox as my Touareg. And there are over 1 million semi diesel trucks operating in CA alone. And they put a lot more miles on than the handful of diesel cars. The day my Touareg puts out pollution close to the diesel trucks spewing black smoke pulling these interstate hills I will reconsider my love of personal diesel transportation.

henryn · June 2016

I have said before that I don't drive enough miles to make a diesel attractive. They do cost more than a similar gasoline engine model. But if the price differential were to disappear, well then...

I mean, the title of this particular sub-forum is "What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?"

And that is pretty much your answer, make the price differential disappear.

gagrice · June 2016

There are MB models that offer diesels for less than gas power. The GLK 250 Bluetec was less than the gas version. When I bought a new 2005 Passat Wagon TDI, it was for less than a gas version. With dieselgate there may be some great buys in diesels.

ruking1 · June 2016

henryn said:
I have said before that I don't drive enough miles to make a diesel attractive. They do cost more than a similar gasoline engine model. But if the price differential were to disappear, well then...

I mean, the title of this particular sub-forum is "What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?"

And that is pretty much your answer, make the price differential disappear.

Well for sure, if you've been on this thread for any length of time, you know it's much more complicated than that. Doing the research can pay off big time. I give an example in earlier posts, where after advising a friend, he bought a used MB BT with 5,000 miles and for less than the like model gasser! He is more than happy with this purchase!

So for example, most oems have many gasser models costing far more $$'s than any like model diesels. Most people spring more for gassers, than for diesels.

ruking1 · June 2016

2009 VW Jetta TDI slow news day! The car still used for the daily commute. It still gets 40 mpg! Thanks to VW, we had a maintenance cycle paid for! VW also paid for $500 in diesel fuel.

I have to say, I'm tempted if VW will give the owners $13,000 ( less than $8,900 KBB) . When combined with $1000 in goodwill and 1,300 in tax credits, 49. per mo depreciation/ownership costs for an 8 year old car is VERY good. Per mile driven: depreciation/ ownership ,the cost will be approximately less than 3 cents a mile .

stevedebi · June 2016

gagrice said:

stever said:
$10 billion dollar deal and no fix.

No fix.

Just amazing to me. No fix.

"Volkswagen AG will submit its $10 billion plan this month to fix a half-million emissions-cheating cars or get them off U.S. roads even though it’s awaiting regulators’ sign-off on how to retrofit the vehicles, a person familiar with the matter said.

The settlement will include options for car owners to sell their vehicles back to Volkswagen or to terminate their leases early.

Under the proposed deal, vehicle owners can register to have their car repaired but will be told that it may never actually happen, the person said."

VW Said Ready With $10 Billion Diesel Plan, to Devise Fix Later (Bloomberg)
What do you mean no fix? I am more than happy to take my $13,000 share of $6.5 billion and never let out a peep. The owners get hush money, the government gets hush money. It don't get no better than that. The diesel haters can sell their car back to VW. Everyone is Happy, Happy, Happy.....

Gagrice,
There is no way CARB is going to let those cars stay on the road. If VW won't fix them, they will most likely not allow them to be registered in CA. I think we California owners are in trouble here if they don't fix them.

Of course, they could let them slide, since the Passat isn't that bad. Not sure what level of pollution the SUV puts out.

However, I'm expecting that if VW doesn't fix them, they will refuse registration when it expires.

fintail · June 2016

Looks like I am back in the diesel club:

All it took for me was the right price on a relatively rare car. This one could be a keeper.

xwesx · June 2016

Stunner! Congrats!

stever · June 2016

stevedebi said:

gagrice said:

stever said:
$10 billion dollar deal and no fix.

No fix.

Just amazing to me. No fix.

"Volkswagen AG will submit its $10 billion plan this month to fix a half-million emissions-cheating cars or get them off U.S. roads even though it’s awaiting regulators’ sign-off on how to retrofit the vehicles, a person familiar with the matter said.

The settlement will include options for car owners to sell their vehicles back to Volkswagen or to terminate their leases early.

Under the proposed deal, vehicle owners can register to have their car repaired but will be told that it may never actually happen, the person said."

VW Said Ready With $10 Billion Diesel Plan, to Devise Fix Later (Bloomberg)
What do you mean no fix? I am more than happy to take my $13,000 share of $6.5 billion and never let out a peep. The owners get hush money, the government gets hush money. It don't get no better than that. The diesel haters can sell their car back to VW. Everyone is Happy, Happy, Happy.....
Gagrice,
There is no way CARB is going to let those cars stay on the road. If VW won't fix them, they will most likely not allow them to be registered in CA. I think we California owners are in trouble here if they don't fix them.

Of course, they could let them slide, since the Passat isn't that bad. Not sure what level of pollution the SUV puts out.

However, I'm expecting that if VW doesn't fix them, they will refuse registration when it expires.

It's hard for me to believe that will actually happen, since it's punishing the owners as much or more than VW.

The shareholders meet Wednesday and they aren't happy (well, maybe @gagric is

).

Meanwhile "German prosecutors opened an investigation on Monday of former Volkswagen AG Chief Executive Martin Winterkorn and Herbert Diess, head of the Volkswagen passenger car brand, for allegedly not informing investors quickly enough about potential losses in connection with the emissions-cheating scandal." (WSJ - free link at time of posting - oops, it just died for me).

fintail · June 2016

Thanks.

Even after my first commute, I realize I might have missed the diesel pull and purr, and in my urban commute I think I am getting 30-40% better mpg (the 6 guzzles in the stop and go grind). Icing on the cake as I don't do a high mileage and that's secondary, but still cool. I don't feel like I am sacrificing anything.

I checked nationwide stock of E250 on autotrader, no new ones like mine, I will dig through used ones to see if any are similar. The colors and options make it fairly unique.

xwesx said:
Stunner! Congrats!

gagrice · June 2016

fintail said:
Looks like I am back in the diesel club:

All it took for me was the right price on a relatively rare car. This one could be a keeper.

Pretty car and powered by the right fuel. Love that 800+ mile range. What year is it?

gagrice · June 2016

VLKAY was up 89 cents today. I am still $7+ per share to the good. I would dump it if it started to go South.

ruking1 · June 2016

Way to go on VLKAY ! I'm sure there will be at least 10% for volatility?! If there is volatility to the downside, it might be time to go fishing !

ruking1 · June 2016

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/news/a29119/vw-tdi-v6-emissions-fix-proposal/

3.0 L TDI fix might be a new catalytic converter.

houdini1 · June 2016

fintail said:
Thanks.

Even after my first commute, I realize I might have missed the diesel pull and purr, and in my urban commute I think I am getting 30-40% better mpg (the 6 guzzles in the stop and go grind). Icing on the cake as I don't do a high mileage and that's secondary, but still cool. I don't feel like I am sacrificing anything.

I checked nationwide stock of E250 on autotrader, no new ones like mine, I will dig through used ones to see if any are similar. The colors and options make it fairly unique.

xwesx said:
Stunner! Congrats!

Great looking car fintail. Our local dealer had a new '15 that I was interested in. Steel gray. Not as loaded as yours and was luxury model instead of sport. I could have lived with that, but it was not 4-matic, which is a necessity for me in KC.

jpp75 · June 2016

@fintail Congrats! I love the color.

fintail · June 2016

Thanks all. The new car is a 16, which are being blown out right now as the 17 is an entirely new car (and no diesel on the horizon for the E here - sales manager told me their future builds of C-class diesels were canceled).

An identically equipped luxury trim car would have been even better - those are even less common, and I like having a hood ornament. An autotrader (which most dealers seem to use) search shows very few available. Mine is a 4Matic too - not something I need so much as winters here are generally mild, but it was on the car.

Now I can re-create this now somewhat famous story:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/features/a7170/the-most-fuel-efficient-car-in-america-is-a-luxury-car/

xwesx · June 2016

fintail said:
Now I can re-create this now somewhat famous story:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/features/a7170/the-most-fuel-efficient-car-in-america-is-a-luxury-car/

Hah! Fun read, thanks! I'm not sure how "real world" that really was, but it still makes its point well.

texases · June 2016

I doubt many Prius owners are concerned about their mpgs at 90 mph...

gagrice · June 2016

Funny comparison. This says a lot about that great little 4 cylinder MB Diesel. It works great in both Sedans and CUV/SUVs. I am disheartened they would not continue to offer it. Probably don't want to deal with the Eco-Nuts in our government.

At that point, the Mercedes shifts down another gear, into fifth, and the tachometer finally meanders past 2000 rpm. I still can't hear the engine. What a difference torque makes.

The screaming gas engine going up long hills is a deal breaker for me. In all the small cars I have tested.

ruking1 · June 2016

Yes, the 2016 MB GLC d was supposed to sport the nine speed A/T! The 2014 MB GLK 250 BT has the 7 speed A/T.

gagrice · June 2016

ruking1 said:
Yes, the 2016 MB GLC d was supposed to sport the nine speed A/T! The 2014 MB GLK 250 BT has the 7 speed A/T.

The dealers within 150 miles of me have 15 GLE 300d models in stock. Priced from $64k to $56k. I would consider trading if they were really interested in dealing. In 2013 they were not even close to what I expect when I buy. They act like they are giving you the moon at MSRP.

ruking1 · June 2016

Yes, that happened to me when I was first buying the 2009 TDI. They wanted to sell for approximately $3000 over MSRP. I just told them ( before I walked out, when & if they wanted to sell to me, at a lower price, to give me a call. The same held true for the MB.

ruking1 · June 2016

If this article holds true , this makes the MB 2.1 L BT the new defacto diesel King! Things like 369 pound feet of torque is a high bar ?! http://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2016/06/21/dieselgate-the-end-is-nigh-if-not-for-volkswagen-then-at-least-for-diesel/#2c397c41b630

stever · June 2016

That's a pretty alarmist story, at least for the VW board of directors. Thanks for the link.

What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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