Engine Hesitation (All makes/models)

scoti1 · August 2005

Congrats on your Highlander! I must point out that this forum is about a specific problem so it would tend to be dominated by those experiencing the problem rather than happy owners such as you. I dont intend for this statement to mean you are not welcome here (please join in!); I am just stating it as a fact why you could expect this particular forum to have more negative reports than others and why it may appear to you that the problem is being blown WAY out of proportion. It IS perplexing how this problem can be significant in some models and just a minor annoyance or characteristic in others. We can't accurately estimate how prevalent the problem is based solely on internet reports. The number of good published Toyota/Lexus reviews would make it seem that those experiencing the problem in its most severe form are in the minority. Regardless of the numbers, lets hope that Toyota can work out a solution for those who are dealing with this annoying and potentially unsafe thing that is described in the TSB and then we can all enjoy the Toyota experience. (BTW, IMO unsafe is not synonymous with death trap)

billran · August 2005

Sorry, no attack intended. I should be more specific.

My comments related to the fact that after reading these boards awhile I think it is important to distinguish between:

1) Individual cars that exhibit a common a problem (which does happen and is unfortunate)
2) A design flaw that results in dangerous behavior among all cars of a particular model
3) People who for whatever reason have decided they are not happy with their purchase.

Overall the Highlander is a great car that the majority of owners have no problems with. We love ours and have absolutely no complaints. I sympathize with those who have valid issues, but I am bothered a bit by the exaggerations that claim that there is a design flaw that renders all Highlanders dangerous to drive. We just need to keep thing in perspective, that's all.

mert2 · August 2005

But I also think that some people get their car and notice that it shifts "differently". Then when they start reading these forums they begin to think that they got stuck with a problem and jump on board the hesitation train.

Well, I don't think the few people that complain about it on these forums carry sufficient weight to make Toyota take action and issue a TSB. That would require a much larger group of people, the vast majority of which have never been to these boards.

I do agree that it bothers some people more than others. I have no plans to go to arbitration and if I felt it was affecting my safety or my family's safety, I wouldn't be driving it at all -- it would be gone within the hour.

But... I would go for the Accord if I had a do-over.

Well... if someone didn't mind a 4 cylinder I wouldn't hesitate to recommend that, since the problem apparently doesn't show up in the 4 cylinder models.

scoti1 · August 2005

I did not consider what you wrote as an attack, at all, and find it odd you would feel that way.

If you read through some of these reports you will find that people have been told by Toyota that the hesitation is a normal characteristic of the design. To me, that indicates the condition exists across the board. It is my opinion that it manifests itself to different degrees for unknown (to me) reasons. If it is part of the design, intentional or not, and causes unacceptable driving conditions, then it is a design flaw, IMO. I can understand that you spent a lot of money on a vehicle you are extremely happy with and it can be annoying to read about others not having as enjoyable experience, but, to use your statement, it "does happen and is unfortunate".

mert2 · August 2005

Do you have the 4 or 6 cylinder model?

billran · August 2005

I have the 6 cyl awd. I have tried to duplicate some of the conditions I have seen on this board, and I do get a response that is slightly different from my last car, but it does not seem particularly bothersome or dangerous to me. Maybe I was lucky to get a good one. I have talked to a few people, and have yet to meet in person someone with this problem. I would love to have a chance to trade cars for a drive. In any case I understand you and others do have a problem and I apologize if I came across as making that sound trivial. If I was in your shoes I would not be happy either. My only point was to add my experience which so far has been problem free. And based on limited research and experience it does not seem to be a problem in every car.

mert2 · August 2005

But far too often it gets blown WAY out of proportion into this "Deadly Design Flaw" which just aint true.

If you haven't experienced it, how exactly do you know the seriousness, or lack thereof, of the problem?

billran · August 2005

Because, it does not affect my car at all, as well as the cars of two of my co-workers. I don't doubt you have a problem. I am however tried of hearing this issue portrayed in a manner that implies that there is a serious design flaw that affects all Highlanders, and that Toyota has ignored it for three years. Those are just plain exaggerations and not true. My experience, and the experiences of others prove that.

If I had read this board before I purchased a car I might have not gotten a Highlander. Luckily I did not find this board until recently, and we are very happy with our car . I do not experience the problems you describe which means it does not affect all the Highlanders, although I do believe that your car has an issue To imply that anyone who buys a Highlander is likely to have serious transmission problems is a distortion of the truth. My point is that there needs to be some reasonableness and a true perspective.

pilot130 · August 2005

Some offered information, and friendly advice.
First, the information:
We are, like you, quite happy with our new HL, and had a good experience with the previous one also.
We have noted a minimal "difference" in the way the tranny works in the new model, and we don't see anything one could describe as a problem or as any kind of hazardous condition. To put it simply, the vehicle is just fine for us.
Furthermore, we have asked others if their HLs have developed any such problems, and so far, no one has stated anything different.
I have talked directly with a couple of knowledgeable engineer/technician types about the discussion here, and I was essentially told that the newer 5 and 6 speed trannys will feel different because their design is skewed toward a soft/smooth/seamless/mushy shift pattern--apparently to satisfy customer demand for that characteristic.
Now the advice:
That is not to say the folks in this forum haven't had problems.
There has also been some very good technical discussion related to perhaps finding solutions to problems being experienced.
We are, however, like you, concerned about some of the overplay the problem seems to be getting, ie, "it's across the board, if you don't have it you'll get it, it's a design gone bad, it's a potential hazard (death trap or whatever), a criminal act by Toyota", etc.
There's a great deal of intentionally negative sounding speculation being bantied about which could be easily misinterpreted.
It would be easy for the uninitiated to read this forum for the first time and get a totally wrong impression.
I have been hanging around for some time now, posting concerns about some of the condemnations similar to the above and those you mentioned.
I can say from personal experience, you're likely to get a lot of unwelcome flak by speaking out about it..
My advice would be to enjoy your HL as we and many others do--it is after all a top selling and highly rated vehicle and isn't as bad as some make it out to be.
You have made your feelings known, as have I. Don't be afraid to do so again.
Bear with the criticism, stick with your beliefs, push back where you see fit to do so (diplomatically), keep a positive outlook, and above all, don't take the issue too seriously.
Bear in mind it's only a discussion forum, and the host does a good job of keeping any acrimony under control when the knives come out.

mert2 · August 2005

I was essentially told that the newer 5 and 6 speed trannys will feel different because their design is skewed toward a soft/smooth/seamless/mushy shift pattern--apparently to satisfy customer demand for that characteristic.

I wish mine was soft/smooth/seamless/mushy. It would've satisfied me. However, as the TSB indicates, mine does not operate in that manner.

mert2 · August 2005

I'm glad it doesn't affect your car, and I'm glad that all of your friends that have these cars are not affected either.

But that hardly makes you an expert to make such proclamations that we are blowing this out of proportion. I mean, you yourself say that your car has no problem, so how can you make the judgement that other people are blowing this way out of proportion when you haven't experienced it?

mert2 · August 2005

Turbo lag. Man. That pretty much describes what I feel.

The 3 liter V6 engine provides 210 horsepower, but most of it comes at high engine speeds, so that there may be a delay before you actually get moving. Indeed, the transmission tended to have a substantial delay before downshifting when faced with sudden throttle changes, resulting in a condition not unlike turbo lag. This could be disconcerting when moving from a stop sign onto a busy, fast street or highway. Because the transmission changes the way it shifts to meet your driving style, it slowly became more responsive as we drove to match our preferences; the prior driver had apparently been more gentle on it (we've always wondered why they don't allow dual driver preferences for the transmission, as well as for the seat positions). However, we never got around a substantial hesitation on heavy acceleration, most likely because the engine's power is largely made at revolutions. On the highway, the transmission became fairly responsive and the engine's power was appreciated for quick passing. The drivetrain certainly responded well to gentle driving, with the engine providing better gas mileage and the transmission being very smooth; but on the highway the transmission sometimes hunted for the right gear. Overall, the transmission did get better, but was still not as responsive or decisive as we'd like.

Toyota Camry car reviews

billran · August 2005

I am by no means a transmission expert Mert, but my assertion that this has been blown out of proportion stands. Not in your specific case, but the implication that every 5 speed Highlander transmission if seriously flawed to the point of making it dangerous to drive.

You obviously either have a really bad transmission or at the least, are really bothered by it. But that does not negate the fact that there are a lot of us who either don't have any problems, or don't find the problems to be the horrendous issue it is being made out to be here.

When I say "Blown out of Proportion", I am referring to the implications that every Highlander out there is affected by such a serious design flaw that it is unpleasant and dangerous to drive. That simply is not true.

pilot130 · August 2005

Totally agree!!
It is, simply, not true.
I'm no expert either, but it certainly appears to me this is not the horrendous issue some would have us believe.
Some may indeed have a problem, and others may feel they have one because of the publicity, or because the tranny feels "different" from what they're used to.
But, by all standards, it is being blown out of proportion by a few, in that there is NO serious design flaw, and all Highlanders ( or other models with the same tranny) are NOT dangerous, nor are they "potentially" dangerous to drive.

billran · August 2005

I bought my Highlander after riding in and driving the car of one of my co-workers, as well as asking how well he liked the car (He loves it). A few months after I bought mine another member of our office bought one for her family. This has been a topic of discussion at work and none of us has noticed anything any more serious than a slight surge between first and second gears. And this only occurs when accelerating very slowly, not when we are pressing it to accelerate quickly. This is only an observation, not a problem as far as we are concerned. This is actually one of the smoother shifting transmissions I have owned.

billran · August 2005

Some may indeed have a problem, and others may feel they have one because of the publicity, or because the tranny feels "different" from what they're used to.

I believe that states the situation precisely.

scoti1 · August 2005

I really don't think anyone here is trying to blow this out of proportion. There is a problem as defined in the TSB and this is the place to discuss it. That discussion is going to dominate this forum. I do believe that it is present to some degree in all of them (from your postion of it feeling a little different up to bkinblk's where he has experienced up to 3 sec lag when trying to accelerate), so if you are at the lower end of the scale it is not a "problem" but if you are at the upper it, it is indeed a problem and a potential safety issue. We have no idea how many are affected at the upper end of the scale and because you and two people you know don't have it does not mean it is not a problem and not a serious problem to others. So it is a little irksome that you are trying to downplay what is quite serious to some who participate here. But go for it. It is an open discussion, but expect some differing viewpoints. (did pilot recruit you ? LOL

)

pilot130 · August 2005

"Did pilot recruit you ? LOL" :confuse:
The answer is "No", and that was an inappropriate question IMO.
I sincerely hope you weren't serious.
Perhaps the answer to your question Scoti might have something to do with the silent majority finally speaking out?

billran · August 2005

I understand. I happened across the townhall forums a few weeks ago while surfing around to see if there was an easy way to keep those 3rd row seatbelts in their little bracket. I did not immediately post mainly because I was too lazy to register (It was a lot easier than I had anticipated). In any case I completely respect the fact that there are people who believe that they have a serious problem and I was never trying to down play that aspect. I do think it unfair however to characterize the problem in such a way as to imply that All Highlanders have a serious design flaw then renders them unpleasant to drive and unsafe. That part is completely untrue as the happy owners of Highlanders can attest. If this is a forum to discuss this issue fairly, we need to look at the big picture.

This was never meant to play down the concerns you or anyone else has about their car. Only to clarify the fact that there are many people who do not have any of the problems you describe, and that it is not necessarily an issue that affects all Highlanders as some posts have implied..

scoti1 · August 2005

Well that sounds pretty fair. I understand too.

lmacmil · August 2005

How many miles on your Highlander? I did not experience the hestiation on our 2004 until it had over 4000 miles on it. I can't say if it didn't exist before then or if I just hadn't driven it enough (it's my wife's car). I am one who has noticed it and find it mildly annoying when it happens but certainly wouldn't describe it as a safety problem nor would it make me want to get rid of the car. My wife has never even mentioned it.

Interestingly, I have a 2005 Camry SE-V6 with the same power train. The hesitation is almost imperceptible and I wouldn't even call it a hesitation were that not the common term. My 2000 Olds Intrigue was similarly slow to downshift under certain conditions.

mert2 · August 2005

I mean no disrespect with this question, and of course everyone here is welcome no matter their motive.

But I'm just curious why you guys that don't have a problem feel the need to post on here and argue with those of us that have the problem?

It would be like me getting on the Engine Sludge forum, and arguing that there's no engine sludge since my '99 Camry doesn't have any.

That just seems like it would be totally counterproductive and a waste of my time. Though I admit it might be fun to get people worked up.

If you don't mind, I'd appreciate hearing what your reasons are.

It might help us all get along better.

billran · August 2005

lmacmil: I have 7200 miles on my Highlander now and it truly does shift as reliably and more smoothly than many cars I have driven. I also believe that it seems to shift more smoothly now than when it was brand new.

Mert: It is because it is my perception that some of the posts characterize the problem as this horrendous design flaw that renders all Highlanders unpleasant and unsafe to drive. Maybe that is not your intent but that is how I perceive at least some of the comments I have read. And that simply is not true. That would akin to me saying that since I have no problems, therefore neither do you or anyone else. I acknowledge and respect the fact you believe you have a serious issue. But, as I said before, it is simply not true that All highlanders have such a condition and to imply as much is indeed blowing it out of proportion.

I only happened to see a couple posts about the hesitation on the problem board and followed the link to this forum. I think that there is indeed a silent majority who also have no problems but they never find their way here. I think it only fair to present the perspective of someone who does not have those problems to put things in perspective.

scoti1 · August 2005

A few pages back a question was asked about whether the hesitation is obvious during the test drive. I was reading the Transmission Problems in the Lexus ES300 forum, and came across several post regarding this same issue.

shocaser, "Transmission problems with Lexus ES-300 ?" #790, 8 Aug 2005 10:20 am

pilot130 · August 2005

You asked.
Please don't get upset with answers given.
This is not intended as a condemnation of the forum or any of its participants.
BTW, these reasons have been stated repeatedly by myself and others since the forum was started.
(1) The issue is being overplayed. That's misleading and should be responded to.
(2) There are statements being made that aren't true, and conclusions being made that have no basis in fact. Also misleading and responded to accordingly.
(3) Insofar as the forum title goes, some posters seem to place more emphasis on reasons (1) and (2), and on taking the manufacturer down, than the intent of the title. Defeats the intent of the forum and sincere efforts of many participants.
(4) It's an open forum, and it's OK for people to post positives about their vehicles, if for no other reason than to show there are other viewpoints on what some may consider a problem.
(5) To ask pertinent questions if for no other reason than to clarify other's opinions, ideas, and conclusions.
(6) To challenge implied demands that those who disagree or don't experience problems have no business participating in the forum.
(7) To illustrate that this controversy isn't as cut and dried as some suggest, and that it's a many faceted subject.
(8) To illustrate that the issue is being largely judged by what isn't known and proven, as opposed by the little that is known about it.
(9) To learn.
(10) To improve my typing skills.

There are more reasons, but those are the main ones.

Mr_Shiftright · August 2005

The Host appreciates everyone's input into the forum but does agree that it annoys people who have the problem, to have to argue with or defend themselves against those who don't--they have enough problems arguing with their dealers it seems.

It's statistically certain that no problem/defect/issue/characteristic/whatever in a modern car will show up in all examples, so the argument is rather pointless.

billran · August 2005

I am a little perplexed. I have never argued that there are no problems, only that it is untrue and unfair to imply that all Highlanders have a serious design flaw. There really should no arguement there.

pilot130 · August 2005

I agree fully.
Then why is it necessary to keep asking the question?
I gave my answers (above) out of courtesy, PLUS to try to achieve some degree of understanding as to why I'm here for the benefit of those who see my input as offensive and irritating..

dla2 · August 2005

The following is only the opinion of dla2:

They all have it. The different feel of the shifting described by those posters who dont have a problem and the scary near death experiance with a hesitation by those of us who have had a problem are all relating to the same thing.

It's taken awile for me to come around to this but I think that all of the Toyota V6 autos have the same feel. If I drove pilot130s car for example I would eventually have a hesitation problem that I could not live with. Why doesn't pilot130 feel the same thing I do? It can only be different driving styles or habits. This does not mean good or bad just different. If true, it also does not mean it's less of a problem just because it relates to how some people drive. It's still a problem for some of us.

I have reached this conclusion based on information from the regional Toyota rep, posts on this forum, talking to other people and driving other Toyotas. (the rep said I would not be happy in any another toyota with the same drivetrain)

It must be related to how different people work the throttle. I know this sounds odd but thats the way I am leaning. comments?

scoti1 · August 2005

Shifty, Thank you again. I will heed your earlier advice to not respond to posts that annoy me. I keep getting sucked in. You are right that the argument is pointless.

scoti1 · August 2005

dla2, I agree with you to a point. I believe like you that it is present in all the Toyota v-6's with 5-speed auto trannys. But I do not believe that you would feel the hesitation in billran's Highlander any more than he does. I think if billran drove bkinblk's Camry, he would find it as annoying as bkinblk does. It is my opinion that it exists, but to different degrees that are not completely related to driving style. A fraction of a second hiccup would not warrant any attention or complaint. Drag that out to a second or longer, then you have a problem.

mert2 · August 2005

I understand that you guys are mainly here because you think that the issue is getting blown out of proportion.

But that doesn't really answer the question.

Why do you guys care if we are blowing it out of proportion?

Maybe concerned about resale value?
Just want to stick up for Toyota ?

To use my analogy again: I could care less if people are blowing the Engine Sludge issue out of proportion. My '99 Camry doesn't have it, so I don't even bother to read the [hypothetical] Engine Sludge forum, let alone argue with the people in it.

Again, no disrespect meant. Just trying to find some common ground here.

mert2 · August 2005

I'm leaning that way too. Did yours feel like turbo lag?

This might explain why I didn't notice it during the first couple thousand miles?

Mr_Shiftright · August 2005

Let me try to explain the host's view more clearly, both of this forum and forums in general.

This forum, in ideal form at least, should be mostly about people who ARE having the problem and who wish to help each other SOLVE it.

It may be of some benefit to come by and post that you aren't personally having the problem, but it seems pointless to keep reminding people about it. If you think about it, there is an inherent irritation in this point of view, similar to having a toothache and being told by people that don't have one that you might be imagining it or "if you only flossed more".... :P

So please, contribute to the database if you wish as one who doesn't have a Toyota with a shifting issue, and many thanks for that, or even come on in and dabate how best to PRESENT this in arbitration (e.g., "if I were you I would/wouldn't stress this or that) but don't hammer the "you might be imagining this" concept to death, would be my advice--because you're going to start fights and I'm going to have to shut things down.

PS: This "you" I'm talking about is the general public "you"--I have no one in mind, just ANYBODY who might miscontrue the forum's purpose---to help out people who are having a problem here.

billran · August 2005

Mert,

I have spoken my piece and out of respect for the Host as well as the fact I have nothing more to say, I am finished. You seemed primed to argue but that is not my nature, and there is nothing I can add to what I have already stated. Good luck with your Car.

dla2 · August 2005

I do not believe I have ever driven a turbo. In general it was an annoying hesitation that happened about half of the time (you never knew when) at low speeds. Not too bad most of the time. occasionally (about 4 times in 19,000 miles) it left me hanging like deer in the headlites in front of oncoming traffic. Vary scary.

dla2 · August 2005

I hope your right. That would make it more likely to find a cure. maybe.

buick72 · August 2005

Hi..

Is there an active link or a copy that anyone has so I can read the TSB (TSB 0005-05 for 2005 V6 Camry)..?

There was an early post with a link but the link didn't open.

I called my service deptartment recently and the service writer (after I told him the TSB number, let him look it up and thrn called back..) said that the car had to be driven and it had to be determined if you have any of the 'problems'. I plan to bring it in during Sept., but I'd like to read the TSB first.

Thanks for your help..

user777 · August 2005

opinion: it's possibe all the vehicles have the potential to exhibit the same behaviors but do not, either because of driving style, or more likely (i believe - this is my opinion) the statistical nature of the tolerances for manufacture of one or more components used in the control design.

for example, it could be the result of a lazy (a slowly actuating) solenoid (remember a normal distribution with a mean and standard deviation...some vehicles may have a part or parts which are within 1/2 sigma of the mean, while someone else's part may be way the heck "out there"). this is likely!

besides solenoids, it could also be the encoders used in throttle or accelerator position sensing, or some other part for that matter like the throttle having mechanical stiction, a spring with a bad K-coefficient, any number of things.

i'd like to believe some people like dla2 theorizing it's a function of driving style, but really, from where i sit, that doesn't seem to fit the observations which others have had, namely they could sense it and it was significant at the time of purchase, and others which say it developed over time.

i really really really do not invision any adaptive / smart control system in this particular context training itself up over many thousands of miles.

to me, it would not make any sense for toyota engineers to do this because of a few factors:
a). Batteries will fail or be disconnected for one reason or another and an adaptive system taking thousands of miles to train up would be unacceptable, and

b). Multi-driver families - if you and your spouse both drive the vehicle, if it can't adapt to your style within tens of minutes, you'd have an unsatisfactory solution and response of the vechicle

there, i wrote what i wrote and i mean it.

scoti1 · August 2005

You can order the full TSB's from NHTSA ( http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/tsb/tsbsearch.cfm ). I can find summaries for two TSB's, both issued in June 2005, for the transmission hesitation in 2005 Camry listed on the NHTSA site. You may also be able to get a copy of the TSB from your dealer service department.

buick72 · August 2005

Scoti1..

Thanks. Last time I looked in NHTSA, they hadn't updated the databse and didn't list the June TSBs!

Short of paying NHTSA, I could wait to go to the dealer and ask for a copy.

They'll probably give it to me, but I won't 'home' for another month.

So I was hoping someone had one on-line, so I could read it now.

Still hoping someone does..

Thanks again.

dla2 · August 2005

I did drive a lexus and felt the same stuff as my Camry. The owner of the Lexus did not like the way it shifted but did not think it was a big problem. I hope I didn't mess up his transmissions learning curve.

I do see you point though.

(I am leaving town for a week as soon as I shut the computer off. you guys have fun)

scoti1 · August 2005

There sure are mixed results with the TSB repair. I recall one the Pittsburgh Post article's quoting Toyota saying it would not work for everyone.

This is a good report:
gbjerke, "Lexus ES 300/ES 330: Prices Paid & Buying Experience" #976, 12 Aug 2005 10:26 am

scoti1 · August 2005

Go to post #788 in this forum. jbollt, "Engine Hesitation (All makes/models)" #788, 19 Apr 2005 10:20 am

The link still works for me. It is for the ES 300/330, but it is my understanding that the problem is the same (and presumably the TCB is essentially the same).

jim70 · August 2005

I was curious, where would I find info on the TSB for the Highlander transmission?

Thanks in advance.

jmcdon7230 · August 2005

For the Highlander TSB, which is TSB TC004-05 go to:

http://www.alldata.com/tsb/Toyota/1117782000000_1118214000000_TC004-05/41.html

jim70 · August 2005

Okay, I have been test driving the Highlanders more and I noticed something. The cars I have driven are all the V6, but there is something I noticed that applies to the AWD and not the FWD model. If I slow way down to just a few MPH and take my foot off the gas pedal and am coasting, like going over a speed bump, when I reapply the accelerator the car does indeed respond immediately, but there is a slight jerk or kick as the transmission seems to catch hold of the wheels and begin to accelerate. This only happens at very slow speed, only when I have taken my foot off of the accelerator entirely, and only on the AWD.

Is this a normal characteristic of a AWD drive car? It is not dangerous or even really bothersome, but definitely different than other cars I have driven. And I don't remember noticing it with the Pilot, but as I understand it the Pilot runs FWD most of the time. I just did not know if this was normal for AWD Highlanders, or AWD cars in general. I don't have much experience with AWD drive cars.

Thanks in advance for any info.

wwest · August 2005

but these cars(***) "want" to upshift(***1,2) during any coastdown maneuver. Once the transaxle "upshifts" as you describe in your circumstance it typically will not downshift, of itself, until the vehicle comes to a full stop.

***: Toyota/Lexus FWD V6/5-speed.

***1: And I do mean a serious upshift, like I think mine may even go into neutral.

Now, you're going quite slow, and your re-application of pressure on the gas pedal means you wish to accelerate. But the engine/transaxle ECU has a bit of a dilema, conundrum, to resolve. Let's assume for moment that the transaxle has shifted all the way up into O/D but without the lockup clutch engaged.

When you apply pressure to the gas pedal the e-throttle system may not (will not?) allow the throttle itself to open since there is a downshift to be accomplished first. But the hydraulic pressure within the transaxle begins to increase since the pressure is a function of throttle position as commanded by the gas pedal..

So when you first apply gas pedal pressure the ECU begins a downshift process, but maybe only into third. Now you "sense" the car needs a bit more gas and the ECU says "Oops, wrong gear!", and subsequently ques the next downshift, most likely into 1st.

Bang!

You just got into 1st gear and now the throttle has been released to follow the gas pedal position..

***2: Upshifting during throttle closed coastdown maneuvers would undoubtedly improve fuel economy and therefore also result in lowering overall emissions. Meaning a fix would have to be approved by the beaurocracy within the EPA and CARB. For FWD, or AWD vehicles with front torque biasing, upshifting would also likely reduce the potential for loss of directional due to engine compression braking on a slippery roadbed.

My own vehicle is a 2001 AWD RX300 which does not exhibit the hesitation symptom, but very definitely "upshifts" during coastdown maneuvers, just before coming to a full stop, or during cruise and closed throttle. The Lexus shop manual indicates this to be the proper activity.

But my transaxle ATF looked and smelled burned at ~40k miles. This in a vehicle that doesn't require, according to Lexus, ATF draining and replenishing of the ATF for the life of the transaxle.

There are enough complaints about RX300 premature transaxle failurres here and about on the internet that make me suspicious that there is some design flaw involved.

Now, my RX300 does not, DOES NOT, hesitate to downshift if I suddenly reapply pressure to the gas pedal after "feeling" the upshift activity during coastdown.

So, is the "hesitation" programmed into the new 5-speed transaxles to prevent these premature failures?

Keep the throttle fully closed until the transaxle hydraulic pressure builds, the shift(ing) is complete and the clutches have time to fully seat?

scoti1 · August 2005

Two days of stunned silence?

pilot130 · August 2005

Two days of stunned silence.
Could it be--omigawd--perish the thought--from lack of interest??
Or a pyrrhic victory perhaps?

Engine Hesitation (All makes/models)

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